The Boston Celtics punched their ticket to the 2024 NBA Finals when they defeated the Indiana Pacers in just four games to win the league's Eastern Conference finals, and now we have Boston's finals opponent set with a winner for the Western Conference finals as well.
That victor will be the Dallas Mavericks, who needed five games to beat the Minnesota Timberwolves in the West finals on this past Thursday (May 30) night. The matchup will be laden with narratives we have been hearing for years now, from Kyrie Irving and Kristaps Porzingis' return, two oft-critiqued coaches being the last two playing, among many, many more.
Ahead of a full preview, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast decided to take a tour of all the narratives we should be expecting -- and which ones we think actually matter.
0:00 - Timberwolves' struggle in Western Conference Finals
1:34 - Dallas presents nightmare matchup for Timberwolves
4:36 - Dallas' performance post-trade deadline scrutinized
6:09 - Comparing playoff runs of Dallas and Boston
8:00 - Analyzing Boston's convincing regular season
10:15 - Emphasizing the importance of playoff matchups
12:29 - Discussing the Jae Crowder Memorial Invitational finals
14:06 - Analyzing the coaching matchup between Joe Mazzulla and Jason Kidd
16:01 - Anticipating the narrative of whether the Jays can play together
17:10 - Promoting Game Time app for ticket purchases
18:22 - Jayson Tatum's potential NBA title win impact
20:37 - Luka Doncic's impact on future NBA titles
24:24 - Celtics predicted to struggle in game one
26:00 - Speculation on Luka's impact in a game
28:32 - Denver's future prospects in the Western Conference
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by Gametime.
Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply. Go to https://gametime.co !
If you enjoy this pod, check out the "How Bout Them Celtics," "First to the Floor," and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media network.
Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy! Go to https://PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Gametime! Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply. Go to https://gametime.co !
That victor will be the Dallas Mavericks, who needed five games to beat the Minnesota Timberwolves in the West finals on this past Thursday (May 30) night. The matchup will be laden with narratives we have been hearing for years now, from Kyrie Irving and Kristaps Porzingis' return, two oft-critiqued coaches being the last two playing, among many, many more.
Ahead of a full preview, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast decided to take a tour of all the narratives we should be expecting -- and which ones we think actually matter.
0:00 - Timberwolves' struggle in Western Conference Finals
1:34 - Dallas presents nightmare matchup for Timberwolves
4:36 - Dallas' performance post-trade deadline scrutinized
6:09 - Comparing playoff runs of Dallas and Boston
8:00 - Analyzing Boston's convincing regular season
10:15 - Emphasizing the importance of playoff matchups
12:29 - Discussing the Jae Crowder Memorial Invitational finals
14:06 - Analyzing the coaching matchup between Joe Mazzulla and Jason Kidd
16:01 - Anticipating the narrative of whether the Jays can play together
17:10 - Promoting Game Time app for ticket purchases
18:22 - Jayson Tatum's potential NBA title win impact
20:37 - Luka Doncic's impact on future NBA titles
24:24 - Celtics predicted to struggle in game one
26:00 - Speculation on Luka's impact in a game
28:32 - Denver's future prospects in the Western Conference
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by Gametime.
Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply. Go to https://gametime.co !
If you enjoy this pod, check out the "How Bout Them Celtics," "First to the Floor," and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media network.
Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy! Go to https://PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Gametime! Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply. Go to https://gametime.co !
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SportsTranscript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 Boston is facing Dallas in the NBA Finals.
00:12 Game one is Thursday, June 6th at TD Garden
00:15 at 8.30 p.m. Eastern.
00:17 I think I have all that right.
00:19 Alex looked for a second like maybe we're gonna get
00:22 a series out of the Timberwolves here,
00:25 but it seems like they had other plans.
00:29 Just quickly give us an opet on this
00:31 Western Conference Finals.
00:33 - Yeah, I mean the Timberwolves I think
00:34 had a really good year.
00:36 They beat a lot of expectations.
00:37 I was banging the drum all year
00:39 that this Timberwolves team was better
00:41 than people thought it was,
00:42 and I think that showed.
00:43 But ultimately this matchup was just a disaster
00:46 for them on multiple different levels.
00:49 I think there was a little bit of,
00:51 I think they were still coming down
00:56 from the high of beating Denver
00:58 and were not really able to properly lock
01:01 into this matchup.
01:03 I also think just from a basketball technical standpoint,
01:06 Kyrie and Luka just devastated this Wolves defense
01:10 from opening tip.
01:12 If there's one area where the Wolves really struggle,
01:15 it's in defending really elite off the dribble creators.
01:20 Dallas has two of them.
01:22 And the thing that Dallas has been able to do
01:24 this year in the postseason is shrink the floor
01:26 against teams that can't shoot.
01:28 And for Minnesota, that was a death knell.
01:31 So good stuff from the Minnesota Timberwolves,
01:34 really strong season, a lot to build around.
01:36 I don't think they need to blow up their team
01:38 contrary to what a lot of people on Twitter are saying.
01:41 But Dallas is a nightmare matchup for them
01:44 and they're gonna need to do some tweaking
01:45 around both their roster and their strategic
01:49 kind of design if they wanna actually beat this Dallas team.
01:53 - Justin, before we talk about the finals,
01:56 which is the meat and potatoes of this episode,
01:58 I'm just curious and thinking of this now.
02:01 Do you think Dallas is the best team
02:02 in the Western Conference?
02:03 - Do I think that they're the best team
02:06 in terms of where they've gotten in the Western Conference
02:09 through felicitous matchups?
02:12 Absolutely.
02:14 Are they the best team?
02:16 Matchups matter, right?
02:17 Health matters.
02:18 Like all these things matter.
02:20 It's hard to argue against them
02:22 being the best team right now,
02:24 but in terms of talent, in terms of luck,
02:27 things go wild in the playoffs
02:33 and this particular postseason,
02:35 maybe more than any I can think of in a long time,
02:37 is a great example of that.
02:38 So yeah, I think they are by default,
02:41 but they might not have been,
02:43 had certain things broken another way earlier.
02:46 - It does have to be said, sorry, really quickly,
02:48 that Dallas was among the best teams
02:52 in the Western Conference,
02:53 particularly after the trade deadline
02:55 when they acquired PJ Washington and Daniel Gafford
02:57 and when Derek Lively kind of popped.
03:00 All of those things happened at the same time
03:02 and I was really high on Dallas,
03:05 particularly after the trade deadline
03:07 and the All-Star break,
03:09 just given the kind of way
03:11 that they turned their season around.
03:13 I do think you can make the argument
03:15 that since the trade deadline,
03:16 they were the hottest team in the West.
03:18 So to some degree, this does make sense.
03:20 - Okay, I'm so glad you,
03:22 I wasn't meaning to tee you up,
03:24 but I think that that is the biggest
03:26 piece of scamola out there.
03:28 So let me make the case.
03:29 I said we weren't allowed to talk
03:30 for more than 30 seconds at a time,
03:31 but I may need more than 30 seconds on this.
03:34 So what Alex just identified is true.
03:37 The Dallas got better after the trade deadline
03:40 and statistically you can see that.
03:42 However, if you look at the teams that they played,
03:46 first of all, they don't have a single quality win
03:48 in the back half of the season.
03:49 And second of all, statistically,
03:50 the back half of the season is least predictive
03:52 part of the season 'cause no one is,
03:54 I mean, you're going up against teams
03:55 that aren't playing for anything.
03:57 So after the trade deadline,
03:59 they beat Phoenix, but it looks like Phoenix
04:01 isn't very good.
04:02 They lost to Indiana, they lost to Cleveland,
04:04 they lost to Boston, they lost to Philly,
04:06 they lost to Indiana again.
04:08 They beat Miami, that's an okay team.
04:10 They beat the Dubs, not a very good team.
04:11 They lost to OKC.
04:13 They beat Denver by a basket.
04:15 And then they played San Antonio, Utah, Sacramento,
04:17 Golden State again, Atlanta, Golden State again,
04:19 Charlotte.
04:21 If you look at this run that they had
04:22 in the back end of the season, it's hot garbage.
04:26 It's one of the easiest runs you could have.
04:28 So to say that we know anything about
04:30 the Dallas Mavericks team, and Alex,
04:31 I'm not putting you on blast.
04:32 I mean, we're gonna hear what you just said a lot
04:35 in the next week.
04:37 I actually don't think that Dallas
04:39 has gone through the meat grinder at all.
04:41 I don't think they've played quality opponents that much.
04:44 And even in this postseason, the Clippers were mangled.
04:49 The Thunder were too young.
04:50 And the Timberwolves were definitely too young.
04:54 So yeah, Justin, to your point, it's all context.
04:57 What I was gonna say before is Joe Mazzulla said that today.
04:59 He was like, look, we're a turned ankle away from this.
05:03 We're a Derek White three away from that.
05:05 You can't build mountains out of these little mole hills
05:08 of circumstance in the postseason.
05:11 And I think Dallas is a paper tiger.
05:14 I don't think we know that they're as good as all that.
05:17 And I don't think they--
05:18 - To your point, this is the same argument
05:21 that people are deploying against the Celtics
05:23 in the national media.
05:24 Why is this any different?
05:26 - No, thank you for asking.
05:28 Because the body of work that the Celtics have put together
05:30 is more robust, more historically pertinent,
05:35 and has a longer tail.
05:37 - So those are some nice words,
05:39 but give me some context because that's the opposite
05:43 of what the prevailing wisdom is on the Celtics,
05:46 at least at the national level.
05:48 - Yeah, I think we have lots of evidence,
05:53 lots of playoff series, lots of individual games,
05:56 seeing the Celtics come up big in the postseason.
05:59 And we have lots and lots of regular season games.
06:01 I mean, what's the data that like a third of games
06:03 they're up--
06:04 - Do we not have that for the Mavs though?
06:07 I mean, they're also advancing.
06:10 - No, we don't because A, they were not that impressive
06:14 or good at the first half of the season.
06:15 - I think they beat the number two team
06:17 in the West to get here.
06:18 The Clippers may not have been great,
06:21 but it's number one.
06:23 Helps my argument even better.
06:25 If you look at the situations,
06:28 they're really not that different.
06:30 I mean, like neither team has what we would call
06:35 like a Minnesota Timberwolves kind of beating
06:37 the national champions, running champs on the way
06:41 to where they are in the postseason.
06:44 Neither team has an incredibly strong finish
06:48 to the regular season.
06:49 In terms of record, sure, but in terms of opponents,
06:52 not so much.
06:53 The Celtics had a pretty weak schedule
06:54 closing out the regular season as well.
06:56 I don't want to spend a lot of time advocating
06:59 for the Mavs, but I mean,
07:00 I do see some pretty strong parallels.
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07:49 - Well, I'd push back on that.
07:53 And Justin, I know you're just making good podcasting.
07:57 First of all, I think, again,
07:58 we've seen Boston win challenging series in the past.
08:03 We saw them put together more of a convincing
08:06 and consistent regular season.
08:08 And they just went 12-2.
08:11 The Mavericks, by great effort and a lot of hat tips,
08:16 they struggled much more to get past their opponents.
08:20 And maybe their opponents were tougher,
08:21 which is fair enough.
08:22 - That's where I was gonna go, yeah, thank you.
08:25 - I do like this first take point/counterpoint
08:31 that's going on right now between the two of you.
08:33 That's good fun.
08:34 What I will say is, with all due respect
08:36 to both of your arguments, which are quite strong,
08:38 they don't matter.
08:40 Because the reality is that the playoffs are matchups.
08:43 And there are many, many, many instances that we have seen
08:48 in which the team that is theoretically worse,
08:50 either by record or on paper, wins a series.
08:54 Because, and this is a really good point
08:56 that has been repeated a few times by Steve Jones
08:59 on the Dunker spot.
09:01 The reality is that worse teams can win playoff series
09:05 if they can present one problem
09:08 that the better team in theory cannot solve.
09:10 That is how this goes very frequently.
09:13 And I think that in this case, for example,
09:16 we're seeing a great example of that
09:17 with Dallas and Minnesota.
09:19 Minnesota was on paper the better team.
09:24 They had the better record,
09:25 they had a better quality of wins against tougher opponents.
09:28 Dallas presented them with a problem
09:29 that they could not solve,
09:30 which is Luka and Kyrie in the pick and roll dance.
09:33 They did not have an answer at any point.
09:36 They tried McDaniels, they tried putting Rudy out,
09:39 they tried Kat, they tried every single wrinkle
09:42 they had in the playbook.
09:43 It didn't work.
09:44 And the reality is that worst teams can win playoff series
09:48 if they present a problem that you cannot solve.
09:51 So with all due respect to the Dallas Mavericks run,
09:54 with all due respect to the Boston Celtics run,
09:57 I think we gotta throw everything out.
09:59 I think if we're really trying to honestly understand
10:02 what we're getting into with this finals,
10:04 we have to take these teams for where they're at right now,
10:08 what they can do in the context of the matchup
10:10 against each other and build off of that.
10:14 Because at this point, folks, it's four games.
10:18 You need to win four games
10:20 and it's make or break outside of that.
10:21 And all sorts of weird stuff can happen in four games.
10:26 Luka could present a matchup problem
10:28 that Boston doesn't have an answer for.
10:30 Boston could rip off a three-point variance run
10:33 that leaves Dallas absolutely leveled.
10:35 All of these things are in play.
10:37 It's time to throw out the regular season.
10:39 It's time to throw out the postseason up until now.
10:42 We have a finals.
10:43 It's gonna be a really interesting matchup
10:46 and I'm very excited to see where it goes.
10:48 - I agree with what you just said.
10:52 Seven different times the Mavericks lost
10:55 three out of four games in the regular season this year.
10:57 The Celtics didn't do that even close
11:01 for whatever that's worth.
11:03 - Western Conference.
11:04 - Yeah, but they have Eastern Conference road trips.
11:07 I don't know, seven times is a lot.
11:10 It's not like it happened once.
11:11 It happened most of the time it was happening.
11:13 We are thinking this is gonna be
11:19 a kind of master class of narratives for the next week
11:25 because we have a week off before the finals start.
11:28 I think I wanna do this and you guys can tell me I'm wrong.
11:34 Let's debate the merits of the narratives
11:36 and then next week when we podcast
11:38 we can actually decide which ones
11:40 we wanna actually talk about.
11:41 Justin, either what you have seen
11:47 or you think you're gonna see,
11:48 what's one narrative you think we'll have to evaluate?
11:53 - Well, I don't think we'll be able
11:55 to escape the return narratives.
11:56 Those are gonna be the dominant narratives
11:58 to start the series.
12:00 They very well may not be by the end of the series.
12:03 So we're gonna have to hear
12:06 not only about Kyrie coming back to Boston,
12:10 Chris Depps coming back to Dallas,
12:12 but also what went wrong with Grant?
12:15 Why is Grant not a part of this situation on either side?
12:18 And I feel really bad for him
12:19 'cause he's the only person who can't do anything
12:22 about whatever's going on with that narrative.
12:24 - No love for the Jay Crowder Memorial Invitational finals?
12:28 - They used to, I think they still do somewhere online.
12:32 They would give you, at Celtics games,
12:33 they would print out these packets
12:35 and they'd have all these fun facts
12:36 and they would give you like,
12:38 this player played for the Celtics in 1979
12:40 and the Mavericks in 1982 and they'd have all that.
12:43 Okay, so I don't wanna actually get
12:46 to the meat and potatoes of those narratives,
12:49 but I'm gonna cheat a little bit.
12:50 - Dwight Powell series.
12:52 - Oh, there you go.
12:54 - My man, my man, Dwight Powell.
12:55 - Seven games, eight games, wasn't it?
12:57 - Something like that, yeah.
12:59 - Like the original Red Claw.
13:00 There are a lot of things to dislike
13:03 about Kyrie Irving's stint in Boston.
13:06 Like you can show up all the political,
13:07 just the basketball stuff.
13:09 I think getting on him about burning Sage is weird.
13:12 Like that's fine.
13:14 - I burn Copell.
13:16 - Yeah, yeah, like he was like exercising demons in his past
13:20 like I don't think he was putting a hex on the Celtics.
13:22 I think that was like for him and his energy.
13:24 I think people misunderstood.
13:25 - Well, it seems like it worked, right?
13:26 I mean, like he's like a fairly normal basketball player
13:28 at this point, not like dragging in his weird ideas.
13:31 - It didn't work against the Celtics.
13:32 The Celtics have been beating his butt for the last years.
13:36 - That's fine.
13:36 - So we'll get into the like Kyrie Irving of it all later,
13:39 but I just feel like people are wrong
13:40 about like what the Sage meant
13:43 and means for people who burn Sage.
13:45 I don't think, I think it was more about Kyrie
13:46 than it was like a dig.
13:48 Like him stepping on the logo was a thing.
13:50 - You don't put a hex on someone with Sage.
13:52 That's the Sage, that's not how it works.
13:53 - Yeah, exactly.
13:54 Yeah, smudging is a completely different thing.
13:56 Okay, anyways, Alex, pick another narrative
13:59 and we can talk about whether or not it's interesting to us.
14:04 - I've got a good one here.
14:05 The narrative that I'm most interested in
14:09 is Joe Mazzuola and Jason Kidd playing checkers.
14:13 The idea that both of these coaches
14:16 are somehow unqualified to be here
14:18 and that they're just kind of riding the coattails
14:20 of elite teams.
14:22 It's very interesting to me.
14:24 So Mazzuola, I think has to some degree
14:28 gotten some more recognition for the fact
14:29 that he is actually a very good coach.
14:31 He's not a perfect coach.
14:33 He has some questionable decision-making at times,
14:35 but by and large, Joe Mazzuola has done a really,
14:38 really, really good job with the Celtics team.
14:41 So that narrative to me, it's interesting that like,
14:45 and I do wonder if part of this is like
14:47 Mazzuola has to win the finals outright
14:50 in order to kind of be thought of as a serious coach.
14:53 Similarly with Jason Kidd,
14:55 this is a guy who has bounced around the league,
14:57 three different head coaching jobs,
14:58 flamed out in Brooklyn in pretty dramatic fashion,
15:01 had an underwhelming stint with the Bucs,
15:05 and for a good minute with Dallas
15:07 was really under the gun as a guy
15:09 who was kind of soaking up a lot of blame
15:13 for Dallas's struggles in previous years.
15:16 You know, obviously they made the conference finals
15:17 two years ago,
15:18 but last year they missed the playoffs entirely.
15:21 And Jason Kidd, I think,
15:22 was getting a lot of flack for that.
15:24 And now he has a finals team on his hand
15:27 and he did so with a visibly improved roster,
15:31 one that plays defense,
15:32 and Jason Kidd's calling card as a coach
15:35 has largely been that he's pretty good
15:36 on the defensive end.
15:37 I'm very interested to see
15:41 what strategic adjustments these guys make
15:44 and who kind of wins the coaching matchup,
15:46 because these are two guys that I think,
15:49 you know, for deserved or not,
15:51 they've gotten a lot of questions
15:53 about whether they are able to really cut it
15:55 as elite NBA head coaches.
15:57 And now they're the last two there.
15:59 Look at what happens there.
16:02 - It's funny that you mentioned that
16:05 because earlier today,
16:06 Cam and I actually got to sit down with someone
16:08 who is very well known for narratives
16:11 regarding the Celtics.
16:13 And I talked to him specifically about this.
16:16 That would be one Kendrick Perkins.
16:18 And he had some interesting things to say
16:20 about this coaching matchup.
16:22 So keep an eye out for that on Celtics Wire.
16:26 It'll probably be coming out tomorrow,
16:27 assuming that we can get that out
16:29 in time with everything else we have going on right now.
16:32 But another narrative that he is very well known for
16:36 that we are also going to have to hear about
16:38 if things don't go well
16:41 in one of the early games of the series,
16:43 which was of course, can the Jays play together?
16:46 It's going to come back.
16:49 - Yeah, I mean, with the worst case scenario,
16:51 I mean, what's worse for me is just the next week,
16:54 like people have to fill content.
16:55 Like they're not going to not film NBA TV
16:59 or NBA Live or whatever the shows are called.
17:00 Like they're not going to show up and be like,
17:03 oh, just wait.
17:04 Like they got to talk about something.
17:05 So yeah, all the old chestnuts are getting dusted off.
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18:17 Can I go for a positive one?
18:19 - Do it. - Yeah.
18:20 - So speaking of self-explore,
18:22 this is a story that I'm working on.
18:23 So I'm kind of workshopping this in real time.
18:26 Say Jason Tatum wins an NBA title
18:29 and maybe even a finals MVP.
18:31 The narrative around this dude
18:33 is gonna change dramatically
18:35 because already he is,
18:37 basically the thing that I'm writing
18:38 is he is the face of the NBA.
18:40 Like don't get it twisted.
18:40 You like go debate a wall.
18:44 Because he's, first of all,
18:47 I mean I'm gonna give the article away here,
18:48 but other than Jokic, Embiid and Giannis,
18:51 no one has come closer to an MVP than Tatum.
18:54 He's probably gonna win one next season
18:55 if they win the title.
18:57 Other than Curry and LeBron,
18:58 no one has sold more NBA jerseys in the 2020s
19:01 than Jason Tatum.
19:02 He's gonna go win a second gold medal perhaps.
19:05 He's gonna be maybe the reigning finals MVP.
19:08 And suddenly everything looks different
19:10 for a 26 year old Tatum with a finals in his back pocket.
19:13 He's got three all NBA first teams,
19:16 five consecutive all star games.
19:18 The dude immediately goes from like,
19:20 oh is he good enough to,
19:23 oh is he a generational great
19:24 that suddenly is gonna be somewhere
19:26 in the deep pages of the NBA history book.
19:29 He's already something like 42nd
19:31 in NBA playoff points all time.
19:34 - So Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown,
19:36 Jalen Brown's down for the ride too.
19:39 They have an opportunity to not just like completely,
19:42 speaking of exercise their demons,
19:43 exercise their demons,
19:45 but check this out,
19:46 they're 26 and 27 and the Celtics
19:47 are gonna run it back with this team next year.
19:50 I've been thinking about this a lot in the past few days.
19:53 Maybe the Celtics are gonna win a lot of titles.
19:56 - I think they have like a three year window.
19:59 I think after that,
20:00 barring some gross incompetence
20:02 on the San Antonio Spurs part,
20:04 there will be a new face of the league
20:06 in short after Jason Tatum.
20:07 - Okay, hold on, hold on.
20:08 - I do agree for the short term.
20:10 - I can't watch Anthony Edwards
20:13 be so unready for the moment
20:15 and have you put that on Victor Wim Benyama.
20:17 Let him have the--
20:18 - I am very far from the only person
20:20 who's putting something like that on Victor Wim Benyama.
20:23 - We all know that--
20:24 - You guys thought I was crazy
20:25 when I was saying that he was gonna be
20:27 even close to this good.
20:29 - I don't know if you guys noticed,
20:31 but there's a guy in Dallas
20:32 who might have something to say
20:34 about winning titles in the next few years.
20:36 - You have a point, you have a point.
20:38 - Luka Doncic.
20:38 - Let's get the hell out of this.
20:40 - Luka Doncic, I think is going to have,
20:42 regardless of whether the Mavs win the title
20:44 or not this year,
20:45 Luka Doncic is now pretty firmly entrenched
20:49 as a top five guy in my mind.
20:51 And I think Dallas is very much going to be in it
20:54 as long as he is there and healthy
20:56 and Kyrie is healthy as well.
20:59 Another narrative that I kind of want to drill down on
21:04 more specifically,
21:05 we mentioned the kind of revenge idea before,
21:08 but I think there's another wrinkle to that,
21:10 which is the Kyrie redemption arc
21:12 that I am seeing a lot of people talk about.
21:15 This idea that somehow winning a title against Boston
21:19 and doing so in a fashion where he basically
21:22 is a normal guy for the entire season
21:24 without any off the court anything
21:28 is a redemption story for Kyrie Irving.
21:31 And I think to some degree that's true
21:34 with the caveat of,
21:35 I'm not exactly sure that like political stuff,
21:41 off the court stuff aside,
21:43 Kyrie Irving has been a really good basketball player
21:45 for a very long time.
21:47 And he's already won a title in pretty dramatic fashion,
21:51 hitting one of the best shots in the history of the NBA
21:54 in a game seven massively clutch situation.
21:58 I'm not exactly sure that Kyrie Irving
22:00 is going to be redeemed from anything
22:03 by winning another ring
22:04 as the second best player on a finals team.
22:08 It kind of feels like he's already done that
22:11 for lack of a better word.
22:13 - I completely disagree.
22:15 I'm pretty sure the game was tied when he hit that shot.
22:20 I mean, that was LeBron's team.
22:21 And Kyrie Irving,
22:23 the data suggests that for most of his NBA career,
22:25 he has been a no show in the NBA playoffs.
22:28 Take away playing with peak LeBron James
22:31 and that dude quits on teams,
22:32 makes boneheaded plays and isn't a great defender.
22:35 So I'm ready for that.
22:38 Not sour grapes,
22:39 just like the data is heavily in favor
22:42 of Kyrie Irving being a flake in the postseason,
22:45 not a consistent player.
22:47 And so far the things have gone right for the Mavericks.
22:49 So there's been no bad juju,
22:51 but if they're down two games,
22:53 they're down two games to one, three games to two,
22:56 does Kyrie Irving lock in?
22:58 Statistically, he hasn't been that guy.
23:00 And I believe in personal growth.
23:02 I believe older players are more mature than younger players.
23:05 Like I'm not saying he has resigned
23:08 to be the person that he was,
23:09 but even in game four against the Mavericks,
23:13 he chokes like a dog down the stretch.
23:15 I mean, that turnover to ice the game
23:17 for the Timberwolves was pretty bad and pretty familiar
23:21 if you've been watching Kyrie Irving's career.
23:23 So he's quietly been only okay
23:26 since that okay C-series has to be said.
23:29 - That's what I'm saying.
23:30 It's like, oh, he's gone eight months
23:32 without like being a catastrophically bad teammate.
23:36 I don't know.
23:37 - I mean, very low expectations
23:39 compared with moderate success
23:41 is still a big jump in people's expectations.
23:45 - I'm just saying like that Dallas, okay, let's pivot.
23:50 Cause we don't want to spend too much time here.
23:52 Our early expectations, and like I just said,
23:55 people can grow.
23:55 Maybe when we pot again on Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday,
23:58 well, it changed our mind.
23:59 To that end, please like and subscribe to our podcast
24:01 so you never miss an episode.
24:02 We are not recording on a regular schedule,
24:05 so you need to be subscribed to stay in the loop.
24:08 So we'll talk about this more,
24:09 but I think I've already tipped my hand.
24:12 What are your early expectations?
24:14 We haven't really talked about the Celtics,
24:16 this podcast yet.
24:17 Destin, I'll go to you first.
24:19 What is your off the cuff early series prediction?
24:22 And again, a few days from now,
24:23 you might have looked at the data more,
24:25 thought about it more, changed your mind.
24:26 But right now, what's your prediction?
24:29 - I think the Celtics are going to drink their own Kool-Aid
24:31 in game one, have to scrape out
24:35 what they're hoping is going to be a win,
24:36 only to see a Luka backbreaker,
24:39 completely ruin everyone's day,
24:42 win three games in a row, drop the next game.
24:45 It's either going to be a six game or a seven game series.
24:48 I'm not really sure, depending on how healthy Kristaps is,
24:52 how fast he reintegrates,
24:54 a bunch of little things like that.
24:55 I'm pretty confident the Celtics are going to win this,
24:58 but they could make it harder on themselves.
25:00 And I would not be shocked if they did.
25:02 - Alex?
25:05 - I'm going to regret saying this.
25:08 I think Luka is going to have one nuclear superhero game
25:12 in which he gives you 50, 11, and 12,
25:16 something like that,
25:18 and Boston will probably lose that game.
25:20 I think the Celtics are winning this in five.
25:24 I think they're going to win the first two games at home
25:28 in pretty convincing fashion.
25:29 I think they're going to drop game three in Dallas
25:34 because Luka is going to go absolutely nuts
25:36 and the Celtics are going to do bozo mode
25:38 because they do bozo mode still.
25:40 They're not a perfect team.
25:42 I think they're going to look at the film.
25:44 I think they're going to key in on whatever they need
25:46 to key in on.
25:48 They're going to get a backbreaker game four win in Dallas,
25:52 and they're going to seal the series in Boston,
25:54 and Jason Tandem is going to be holding finals MVP.
25:56 - Yeah, I mean, I told you guys last week,
25:59 I have a ticket to Dallas for game six,
26:01 and I'm anticipating canceling that sucker,
26:03 but in the interest of good podcasting,
26:06 I'll say Celtics in six.
26:08 I think that read that Luka goes nuts,
26:10 and maybe it's the Luka Kyrie show.
26:12 I mean, they just outscored the Timberwolves
26:14 in the first half as a tandem.
26:16 The Celtics have matured in front of our eyes,
26:20 kicking and screaming.
26:21 They're going to drop a game two
26:22 because there's going to be a game
26:23 where the Jays combine for nine turnovers,
26:26 and they play too much iso ball.
26:27 So I'll take Celtics in six,
26:29 but I just don't think that Dallas is on the same level.
26:34 I think that the, like,
26:36 oh, Dallas is a really good defensive team.
26:38 They haven't played good,
26:40 I think they just haven't played good opponents.
26:42 I just, like, I don't know where we're getting that.
26:44 The data doesn't feel that legit.
26:46 So, yeah, I got Celtics.
26:48 I'd take Celtics in four if I'm really feeling it,
26:51 but Justin, to your points earlier,
26:55 like, there's enough in Boston's recent history
26:59 to suggest that that's a little ambitious.
27:01 Anyways, any other thoughts on the NBA playoffs?
27:05 Did any of us have Celtics Mavericks
27:09 heading into the season?
27:11 I was certain that the Nuggets
27:12 were going to win the Western Conference.
27:14 - Same.
27:15 - I think same.
27:16 Oh, that's a fun last minute thing.
27:19 Because this is the NBA
27:22 and everything is a referendum on anything.
27:24 Are the Nuggets not as good as we thought?
27:28 The Timberwolves just got punked
27:29 after the Timberwolves stole the Nuggets' lunch money.
27:32 - I think the Nuggets,
27:34 all right, the way I'm taking it is this.
27:37 Nikola Jokic is actually maybe better than we thought.
27:41 I'm not sure the Nuggets are as good as we thought.
27:44 I think their bench in particular
27:46 got pretty severely exposed
27:49 and Jamal Murray wasn't healthy.
27:50 And I think, you know,
27:51 also Michael Portman Jr. had a disaster series
27:55 against Minnesota.
27:56 Minnesota's a bad matchup for them.
27:58 It's honestly pretty astonishing to me
28:01 that Jokic was able to pull that series back
28:03 to being competitive.
28:06 Yeah, I think it's probably fair to say
28:08 Denver is not as good as we thought.
28:10 I also think that it's not gonna take much
28:12 for them to be right back at the top.
28:14 They need a couple more vets off their bench
28:16 and they're gonna be ready to roll for next year.
28:20 My very way too early,
28:24 the season hasn't even ended prediction.
28:26 I still think Denver would be my pick
28:28 to win the Western Conference next year.
28:30 - Destin.
28:32 - I wish I could make this spicier,
28:35 but I mean my rant at the beginning of the show
28:37 about Dallas maybe being better than we thought,
28:41 it applies for this as well.
28:43 Alex's point about matchups is really,
28:45 it's the key in the West right now.
28:47 Had they encountered the other side of the bracket,
28:51 they would probably have won the West
28:53 and the Celtics would be in danger
28:56 of not having much of a good chance to win a title.
29:00 Now, they do because that's not what happened.
29:03 You know, the playoffs are weird, stuff happens.
29:06 Here we are.
29:07 - It goes to show that a single Victor Wemben-Yama
29:11 performance in the regular season at the right time
29:13 can change the course of history.
29:15 - And take care of business to get the one seed.
29:18 Was the term Mickey Mouse run used before the NBA bubble?
29:23 - As I recall, it was not used until after the bubble
29:27 and it was used specifically
29:29 to denigrate the Lakers title run.
29:30 - Yeah, you said-
29:31 - Mickey Mouse to denigrate things
29:33 'cause it's been around for a long time
29:34 but yeah, I've never heard it before that.
29:36 - Yeah, that's kind of what I thought too.
29:38 My conspiracy is that ABC and ESPN
29:40 own the rights to the NBA finals this year
29:42 and this is all soft marketing for Disneyland
29:46 calling everything a Mickey Mouse run.
29:48 Which, you know, move the product.
29:52 Speaking of which, please like and subscribe
29:54 to our podcast if you haven't.
29:55 And I would like to remind folks that
29:58 this episode of the Celtics Club podcast
30:00 was brought to you by PrizePix,
30:01 the exclusive Tennessee basketball partner
30:03 of the CLNS Media Network.
30:04 And by game time tickets, last minute tickets,
30:06 lowest price guaranteed.
30:09 Again, we'll catch you next week at some point.
30:12 So until then, be on the lookout for new episodes
30:16 and be on the lookout for things to the Celtics Wire.
30:18 I'm gonna cook up if you like to read things.
30:21 Alex, good luck in your themed hotel.
30:24 Justin, good luck with the heat
30:26 and the howler monkeys falling from trees
30:28 and everyone else.
30:30 We'll catch you later.
30:31 Adios.
30:32 (upbeat music)
30:35 (upbeat music)
30:38 ♪ So I'll do what I could ♪
30:41 ♪ I'm a water moon ♪
30:44 ♪ My celestial world ♪
30:48 ♪ Like you told me I should ♪
30:50 ♪ Water becomes a kind of life ♪
30:54 [BLANK_AUDIO]