Is My Girlfriend Marriage Material? Freedomain Call In

Stefan Molyneux

Diving deep into the complexities of family relationships and the impacts of military service on personal well-being, we explore a caller's struggles with self-conflict stemming from his father's military prioritization over family. Unpacking motivations and challenging sacrifices, we illuminate the intricate dynamics of fear, respect, and emotional challenges within military culture. Transitioning to discussions on happiness and reciprocity, we navigate the importance of selflessness in nurturing meaningful connections within familial and romantic contexts. Emphasizing the transformative power of generosity and reciprocity, we advocate for fostering genuine connections through mutual care and consideration, culminating in reflections on personal growth and positive change within relationships.  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  NOW AVAILABLE FOR SUBSCRIBERS: MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING' - AND THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI AND AUDIOBOOK!  Also get the Truth About the French Revolution, the interactive multi-lingual philosophy AI trained on thousands of hours of my material, private livestreams, premium call in shows, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!  See you soon!  https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2022

Transcript

00:00:00 I've got a I've got a quite copious notes because I'm a rambler and at the same time I'm prone to

00:00:05 Yes, sort of totally spacing out and not having any idea what to say so well, I'm happy to hear your notes hit me up

00:00:14 The most concise way I can think to put it is is a question should I break up with my girlfriend?

00:00:21 It's a question. I've not been able to answer for the past few girlfriends

00:00:24 in my entire sort of dating life going back to

00:00:27 Around 13 years old, but for all of them. I had an excuse to leave that I

00:00:32 Was explicit about with with these three or four girls in the past

00:00:36 I now realize I was making excuses to leave those past girlfriends and do not want to leave my current girlfriend on account of excuses

00:00:43 I want to either break up with her with certainty clarity and strength

00:00:46 Or I want to double down on our relationship and marry this woman with certainty clarity and strength

00:00:52 please help me write to this self conflict and I put self in quotation marks because I

00:00:57 Think you believe and have a pretty great case that self conflict isn't really a thing

00:01:01 I'm so tired of this particular self conflict

00:01:05 Which cost me a great woman less than two years ago one that most dudes would have would have killed to have

00:01:09 And then that I chose to leave

00:01:12 And it's an interesting thing just to finish this little stanza is

00:01:19 I'll never go to that later. How does that that sound is that useful?

00:01:22 Hey, I'm all ears you can and you can tell me the whole tale

00:01:27 Okay. Well this so this sort of self conflict is very

00:01:32 Exhausting or distracting I really feel like it's keeping me from a lot of

00:01:39 Not just happiness, but also productivity and generosity out there in the world

00:01:46 So one one

00:01:49 Just to me genuinely interesting thing that's been happening is I've been having sex with my current girlfriend unprotected

00:01:56 so

00:01:58 obviously that's that makes it sound like there's a

00:02:00 Like it's not a choice that I'm making it totally is but this

00:02:05 To me is substantial evidence and it just makes sense that I want to

00:02:10 What I'm trying to do with that at some level is is to get on the far side of having to make this decision

00:02:16 Because if I get her pregnant

00:02:18 quote-unquote on accident then then I won't have to

00:02:21 Decide anymore. Yeah, that's a great news is if we force ourself to do things

00:02:27 There's never any problems or a blowback or negative results. I mean, honestly just keep raw talking it and

00:02:33 That's pretty much as much philosophy as you're gonna need. I think it's basically the philosophy is more Sade and sure today

00:02:40 All right, but sorry go ahead

00:02:42 Yeah, well to that point and I noticed on the top of your your preparation to call in web page there's a

00:02:50 quote from Benjamin Franklin that I love an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and

00:02:55 And that's and maybe that's some of the impetus for calling so urgently after I realized what?

00:03:01 Sort of what I'm doing the stakes and the fire I'm playing with with respect to that

00:03:06 And what's your age range

00:03:10 I am early 20s. Okay, so good

00:03:14 We're still in the prevention side. Now. Do you want to start with the girlfriend or the childhood or the last girlfriend?

00:03:20 I don't have any preference childhood go. All right

00:03:26 Childhood it was not good. It was for context just because I I'm probably gonna fly through and anticipate anticipating a lot of your questions

00:03:35 So just for context, I'm a longtime listener and not just a listener but like a big step fanboy for a long long time now

00:03:42 so

00:03:45 Anyway childhood it was not good. I was a smart kid and

00:03:48 I was in public school here. I'll just write the question. I anticipated was what is your relationship to your parents?

00:03:56 Well, no, no, hang on. Let's do the childhood first then the relationship after I am going to go to fax before the relations. Okay

00:04:03 Um

00:04:05 Not good, it was a bad time I

00:04:13 Remember some of the facts I for a couple years in public school

00:04:17 I I would bang my the back of my head on a sort of brick wall that we had to sit outside of

00:04:22 Our classes to wait for them to start in the mornings, you know after the school bus and drop us off 30 minutes before class

00:04:27 Started or whatever

00:04:29 For a year or two. I would I'd sit there and bang the back of my head on the on the wall

00:04:33 About as hard as I could, you know sustain for for that period every morning

00:04:37 and that's I think that's just one one helpful indicator as to how it was it was it sucked and

00:04:43 Definitely

00:04:50 Of course there of course there were ups, you know

00:04:52 I loved playing Pokemon and sometimes going out and getting pizza with the family was awesome. That's sort of usual stuff

00:04:59 But why is why be I'm sorry to hear about it. Of course. Why were you why were you beating your head?

00:05:04 Do you have any how old were you at this point pretty young?

00:05:06 Six and seven. Yes, six and seven. Okay. So why are you beating your head against the wall at that age? I

00:05:12 Got no idea as to a specific cause for that

00:05:15 Well, you do you do right I mean it's it's you've listened to the show for a long time

00:05:25 And it's always sure to me when people still try the I have no idea stuff

00:05:28 Well, I mean specific I mean like, you know, nothing sort of extremely dramatic happened, you know

00:05:33 Four weeks prior to starting that behavior nothing like that. Just but yes general

00:05:36 Not really wanting to

00:05:40 Maybe it's dramatic terms. I'm not really wanting to be alive at that age

00:05:46 Definitely that I mean that is I of course I sympathize with that

00:05:50 But what does it mean or why didn't you want to be alive at that age?

00:05:56 It's very lonely kid

00:05:58 Didn't have

00:06:01 Did that much of a mom or dad certainly not at that time

00:06:07 Okay, what does that mean? So loneliness isn't enough?

00:06:10 Right because I mean there's lots of lonely kids and I mean I was a lonely kid in many ways

00:06:16 But you just fill your mind up with you know stories and fantasies and and you know

00:06:21 Creativity and and all that we we have a sort of waking dream called creativity that we use

00:06:27 To fill the void called loneliness

00:06:29 So I don't think that's enough. I'm probably with something else

00:06:34 So when you say you didn't have much of a mom or dad, what does that mean

00:06:40 My dad was probably this isn't sort of

00:06:44 Dive all take too much information as far as anonymity, but my dad was a

00:06:49 soldier right before 9/11 starting right for 9/11 and so as soon as that happened, which was of course

00:06:56 Right around the time I was born

00:06:58 He was gone and and then very

00:07:02 Just very busy for the next you know, 20 years

00:07:06 15 ish years. Okay, so

00:07:10 Not quite a single mom

00:07:15 In retirement, right

00:07:17 you're right not exactly but

00:07:19 Like 70% me like 0.7 single moms. Okay, and

00:07:23 How was your relationship with your mom

00:07:27 She was really real I guess this probably is no surprise at whatsoever

00:07:33 But she was very very affectionate when we were babies and very small but uh, I say we I have two brothers one older one younger

00:07:42 But uh

00:07:44 also very naggy, you know sort of

00:07:46 whenever I

00:07:48 Sort of liked something if I was doing or working on something

00:07:51 She would definitely give me constant pointers and nagging it almost felt like I mean

00:07:58 I mean, it's just she'd still does it into my she did it into my 20s, but

00:08:02 And how was she with your father

00:08:08 They I mean during my whole childhood they were not not very close I mean he would he would come back

00:08:14 I mean not not to mention the sort of the initial changes he underwent as um

00:08:19 as a you know as a

00:08:22 Soldier doing the work he was doing

00:08:24 For for years and years and years and years and then just but why why was he a soldier for you?

00:08:29 You can quit right?

00:08:31 You absolutely can't. Yeah. Okay. So why was he a soldier for so long?

00:08:37 He loved it he still does okay, that's one possibility

00:08:41 Sorry a possibility I may have forgotten the question the possibility as to what why he would

00:08:49 Continue to do the soldiering rather than be a father

00:08:54 Oh

00:08:55 um

00:08:57 Um, well certainly is, you know kids have their ways of uh

00:09:06 Of hurting adults feelings and we definitely did that i'm not giving any agency to little to babies right now

00:09:12 but just saying try to explain that those decisions mechanistically he fell in love with the

00:09:16 uh, the war and the cause of the

00:09:19 America and the the scraven eagle and the tanks rolling and all that stuff. Absolutely

00:09:25 Um enamored him and again, it still does he's not made any

00:09:29 Retraction he stood fast on that on that sort of emotional position the whole time

00:09:36 You oh so you mean the emotional position of

00:09:39 Patriotism and fighting for america and freedom and you mean that kind of stuff? Yes. Yes, right

00:09:47 so

00:09:50 That still doesn't answer to me why he preferred all of those abstractions rather than his own family

00:10:04 I don't know. Does he still believe does he still believe that he was fighting for truth and freedom in the american way?

00:10:09 Yes

00:10:11 Oh, so he has no

00:10:13 Particular doubt about you know, there was no weapons of mass destruction in iraq and they basically spent 20 years to turn

00:10:19 The taliban back over in charge of afghanistan. He has no

00:10:23 No, no, he's no doubts about any of this

00:10:26 Right all the all the facts and good ideas and good arguments or evidence or even just reason from which could have been done

00:10:33 beforehand, it's uh, it doesn't serve to

00:10:36 It doesn't sort of engage him in a a

00:10:40 Conversation about the facts. It's it gets emotional

00:10:43 And not the good kind

00:10:45 With well, what do you mean like he just gets angry? Yeah, he gets angry defensive and um, okay

00:10:49 So it's not about truth freedom reason in the american way. Just you know, right that that's not it

00:10:54 Because I mean if you sacrifice your entire family

00:11:01 In a sense don't you want to know that it was for something

00:11:04 I certainly would I think so, right?

00:11:07 Uh, yeah

00:11:11 yeah, and that's and I

00:11:13 my guess is that is that's exactly why he's still so fervent about it because because if it's not if he if he were to

00:11:18 um, I say get educated but sort of move in my direction say about

00:11:25 Understandings, I'm sorry. It's not a question of getting educated. This isn't some it's not a weird conspiracy theory to say

00:11:31 weapons of mass destruction you think they did

00:11:34 Um, i'm sure that the taliban are not in charge of afghanistan again, like no no, what do you mean?

00:11:41 This is not the I doubt he doesn't have to learn latin

00:11:44 Right. Yeah, he knows that stuff but it but it

00:11:48 Uh to him, it doesn't matter. It's again. It's not about

00:11:52 Being right. It's it's about the

00:11:54 those sort of passions and the brotherhood and

00:11:56 All that. Okay. So if he if he prefers the the brotherhood of soldiers

00:12:02 To his own wife and children, that's fine. But let's not pretend it's about truth and freedom in the american way, right?

00:12:09 Sure, yeah, I didn't mean to imply that but that's that's how he would necessarily how he would uh,

00:12:15 uh, uh characterize it well, I get that I get that but

00:12:22 We kind of have to look at the facts not at the claims, right?

00:12:24 So why did he prefer to be away he wasn't drafted he could have quit

00:12:34 So, why did he prefer to be away now

00:12:38 Again, the whole truth reason the american way stuff. He doesn't care about that much

00:12:44 Because that clearly didn't quite play out, right?

00:12:48 Right. Yeah, and so he's not examining that so it's got to be something else

00:12:52 You know if I say I want to go to vegas because I love gambling I go to vegas and all the casinos

00:13:00 Are shut and I just don't come home. I clearly went there for something other than the gambling, right?

00:13:05 Sure. Yeah

00:13:08 That that's that's true but at the same time and and i'm not trying to be argumentative but uh

00:13:13 You say why did he prefer, you know, sort of brotherhood and the feelings of patriotism and how sort of natural it is to be

00:13:20 to get wrapped up in these

00:13:22 Uh causes bigger than ourselves. I'm thinking i'm gonna have a comparison of like why do you know? Why do I prefer?

00:13:28 Parmesan cheese to broccoli as far as taste goes like I just kind of do so he he did

00:13:35 Okay, I uh

00:13:40 I don't know how you in the equation get reduced to a dairy product, but okay, let's go with your analogy, right?

00:13:46 But if you choose to get married

00:13:48 and to have children

00:13:51 You are making sort of a commitment to spend time with your wife and your children, right?

00:13:57 Uh, yes, I certainly see it that way he is. Are you curious about his position with respect to these things?

00:14:04 Of course. Yeah, i'd love to know his position and I could be wrong about everything

00:14:08 I'm, just you know, i'm just asking the questions

00:14:11 He takes a um

00:14:14 basically a

00:14:17 a victim mentality with respect to this like it wasn't of course it was but

00:14:21 uh, he very much believes in

00:14:23 My country needed me and I had to go it wasn't my choice. It was it was the bad guy's choice who attacked the united states

00:14:31 So, yeah, yes, he made that commitment but

00:14:37 The commitment was overridden by an even bigger commitment if that makes sense to his mind

00:14:41 Okay

00:14:43 so

00:14:45 he had to go because his country needed him because

00:14:48 You know, the innocent country was attacked by the bad guys, right? Yes. Okay. Got it. Got it

00:14:54 um, so

00:14:57 He cares when people need him

00:15:06 Right

00:15:07 Well seems like he cares more when attractions need him. Well, I mean

00:15:11 My argument would be did your children not need you? I mean you chose to have children

00:15:16 and

00:15:19 I mean, I guess

00:15:21 Was he he was in the army like that's mostly what he's done. Is that right?

00:15:24 Correct. Yes. Okay. So your mom met him and and dated him and married him

00:15:32 And he was uh, he was in the army and he was an army guy. So she knew all that she was getting into right?

00:15:38 Uh, that's right. However, 9 11 came as a surprise to the both of them

00:15:43 of course

00:15:44 Well, I understand that

00:15:46 I understand that uh, but uh, it wasn't like he later went into the army. He was an army guy

00:15:52 and

00:15:54 That's what

00:15:56 Your mom married into right? Well, that's right. Yes. Okay. Got it

00:16:02 So if you go where people need you, of course, then the question is why didn't

00:16:09 Um, why didn't he go to his family when his family needed him

00:16:27 Well, it was certainly much better at being a a warrior than a father or husband

00:16:31 Um, I I I accept

00:16:36 that of course

00:16:39 But then he's not going

00:16:41 Where he's needed he's going where he feels more competent

00:16:45 Yes, yeah and it feels better I guess feels better about the cause whereas he comes home and

00:16:52 I don't know. Maybe it's maybe it's more like work. Maybe it's more

00:16:56 Um

00:16:58 It's less less fun, I guess no, I get that so he's going where

00:17:03 He prefers to be

00:17:06 Sure, right? Yes. Okay. So if he's going where he prefers to be

00:17:11 It's not any kind of self-sacrifice, right?

00:17:14 Right he's doing

00:17:19 What he wants to do

00:17:21 He's doing what makes him feel better

00:17:24 Am I wrong?

00:17:26 No, no, i'm with you. Okay

00:17:28 so, I mean, that's just

00:17:30 The cover story of of patriotism and fighting for truth reason in the american way

00:17:35 It's kind of like a cover story, right?

00:17:39 I I mean, I I think

00:17:42 He totally believes the cover story not that that matters as far as the consequences of all his decisions

00:17:47 Well, sorry, how do you know what he totally believes?

00:17:49 Well, he's been saying the same thing my entire life literally

00:17:55 Yeah, but so what?

00:17:57 My my mother's been saying for my entire life that my dad was a bad guy, how do I know that's true?

00:18:03 You can't know well you you can know based on actions, right?

00:18:13 Okay, so how did your mother and father get along when they were together

00:18:22 Uh, not very well it was um, like I said between

00:18:26 um, you know between excuse me between deployments to war

00:18:31 they would be

00:18:33 You know, you feel you feel breakups like a death it's like every time he left they had to break up

00:18:37 And that wasn't just boyfriend and girlfriend. They were obviously married. So eventually it seemed like

00:18:42 Neither of them could really connect to each other and by eventually I mean, you know, it only took a few of those

00:18:49 So so not not long

00:18:51 Excuse me, not very well. They didn't get along very well. Okay, so

00:18:53 Aside from all of the descriptive language. What does that mean? Did they yell at each other? Were they cold?

00:18:58 Did they not spend time together? Did they not seem to enjoy each other's company? What do you mean by they didn't get along?

00:19:03 Uh, they didn't yell at each other I don't think that ever happened and certainly

00:19:11 It was never violent with her

00:19:14 He's actually very and this is important

00:19:18 He's very very defensive of her sort of feeling bad ironically

00:19:21 um

00:19:23 if for example if one of the one of the his three sons ever

00:19:26 I don't know did anything try to try to

00:19:30 Assert himself back on onto our mother

00:19:34 It would it would absolutely set him off and his his temper would trip immediately

00:19:38 and without fail with completely

00:19:41 completely predictably

00:19:43 So what you mean if if he felt that one of his kids was disrespecting his wife, he'd kind of go ballistic. That's right

00:19:50 Um

00:19:53 And what would happen then?

00:19:55 um

00:19:57 well, well, I mean it only happened maybe a couple times to each of us before we

00:20:01 sort of, you know as kids do you internalize the the threat and stop doing it, but

00:20:06 um, but early on it was it was physically was just uh,

00:20:10 spanking us

00:20:14 And uh bare bare hand or with implements or or what do you mean with implements with uh,

00:20:20 Either you know sort of wooden spoons or leather belts. Yeah, so that's a beating right? That's not just spanking

00:20:27 Right. Yeah, I mean is that a fair way to characterize it?

00:20:32 Um, i'm so i'm neck deep in the peaceful parenting stuff. I I don't distinguish the two

00:20:38 Okay

00:20:40 Got it

00:20:42 So how often?

00:20:44 Would when when he was home, I guess and and how how long was how often was he gone and and for how long?

00:20:48 it's a little bit tricky because each trip varied but

00:20:52 Uh, the shortest being six and the longest being 12

00:20:55 So he was gone an average of eight or nine months every year until I was you know a teenager

00:21:00 Okay, got it. And and then of course during those three ish three four months while he's home. He's got a very full-time job

00:21:07 And his head is not with the family. His head is still at war

00:21:11 And he he totally acknowledges that to this day

00:21:14 Okay, and did his did your mom want him to stay home

00:21:20 I don't think oh man

00:21:27 That's a good question I never no I never got that impression as a kid or now but

00:21:35 I now I think she was totally sort of on board with him

00:21:41 And you know as he felt that he needed to go

00:21:44 um save america

00:21:47 And then and then eventually she like I said, it's sort of the sort of breaking up all the time

00:21:53 Breaking their hearts all the time

00:21:58 she probably

00:22:01 Can't got to a point where she didn't really care whether he was home or apart because it was kind of the same both

00:22:05 ways and when I was

00:22:07 early teens, maybe 12 13 14

00:22:10 um

00:22:11 They did for a time. They did live in in different. Uh, they lived across the city

00:22:15 Sorry, what do you mean they lived across the city they did like a mock divorce

00:22:21 and just took some

00:22:24 During one of these three or four month blocks while he was home. They lived apart

00:22:28 Okay

00:22:30 And how long was that for?

00:22:32 Um

00:22:35 Us three to six months

00:22:37 Okay, and they're together now, right

00:22:40 That's right. Yeah, and they're doing better than ever because he's done and when did he retire?

00:22:45 Um

00:22:49 Well about four years ago

00:22:51 And did he retire because he wasn't allowed to continue or he chose to retire

00:22:57 You're good at this he retired because he finally got hit by a very large bomb and uh

00:23:08 And he was basically retarded and she cared for him kind of like, you know, you care for an infant for uh,

00:23:14 For a good two or three years. He's doing much better now

00:23:17 Wow, i'm sorry to hear about all of that

00:23:20 Oof how you doing? I'm good. I'm good. I'm nervous and um

00:23:26 I'm nervous and I hope i'm hope i'm doing well for the list. No, you're doing you're doing fantastically honestly, and you're doing great

00:23:32 Great job. No problem

00:23:34 Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. Excellently done. Excellently done. All right

00:23:38 And uh, I guess he's not working I assume or at least not yet he's not working they spend a lot of time, uh,

00:23:47 Just hanging out and fishing and whatnot. Okay. Got it

00:23:52 They're getting along. Well, he was gone for most of the time and how was your relationship with him?

00:23:57 When you were growing up

00:24:00 Uh when I was young it was

00:24:03 um

00:24:04 it was it was

00:24:06 Just fearful and really not much more than that. I uh

00:24:09 internalized his temper very quickly and very thoroughly and

00:24:15 I mean actually connecting with him was

00:24:17 Just a very very rare thing. Um

00:24:20 So

00:24:24 I don't know. It was kind of like he was the

00:24:27 It was like a

00:24:31 You ever put your hand over an abused dog and it flinches real hard. Uh-huh

00:24:35 it was a lot like that and anytime, you know, because he

00:24:38 You know, he knows right and he would ask, you know, like hey you want to go to

00:24:42 I'm gonna go grab some french, you know, grab a burger or whatever. It's just like man. I don't want to because I because this dude

00:24:48 It's it's very stressful to be around this dude

00:24:51 But if I say no, you might get mad is that sort of not good? Not good. Definitely not good

00:24:57 And what was so stressful?

00:25:00 Um

00:25:02 Uh the

00:25:03 Really the the temper that you never knew

00:25:05 when you were gonna

00:25:08 I won't say you never knew but you know, like I said, there are ways to predict it

00:25:11 But again as as a kid, we we played it all. I don't mean to laugh. Of course

00:25:16 We played it on the safe side, especially me. I was the I was the shyest the most timid

00:25:22 and uh

00:25:24 I never

00:25:25 I never sort of fought them until very recently until my 20s

00:25:29 So what with your father what were the concerns that you had

00:25:35 that

00:25:38 He might do or he might behave in such a way

00:25:41 What do you mean well you had can like if you would go out with him there would be a concern right

00:25:52 Uh, right, like what would you what what were you concerned that he

00:25:55 might do

00:25:57 well, I think I think he was just getting spanked or beaten and

00:26:01 For what

00:26:04 What would he do that would be

00:26:07 Oh, what what might you do that would cause that that kind of reaction

00:26:12 Really causing offense it was uh very much uh

00:26:19 as I understand it now and I could be my memory is pretty awful of that of that whole period but

00:26:24 It was very much about

00:26:27 offense or respect or

00:26:29 power

00:26:31 That's sort of that's sort of pretty mammalian stuff

00:26:33 Okay, got it

00:26:37 and

00:26:38 On any time that you would go out. I know this is a bit odd to come up with the math

00:26:42 But on any time that you would go out

00:26:44 What?

00:26:47 Would be the odds that you might do something that might get him to be aggressive or might end up with him being aggressive

00:26:52 With my self-censorship, I mean maybe three percent

00:26:57 Okay, and if you didn't have self-censorship, how do you think?

00:27:02 It would be or or what would the odds be?

00:27:04 About 99. Oh, so if you didn't self-censor, uh, he would uh

00:27:11 Um, he would just

00:27:15 Be aggressive. Well, sure his whole um

00:27:18 His whole shtick his whole personality was was stuff. I didn't like right as a kid. I wanted a dad

00:27:23 So, uh, I mean to be honest about that sort of the elephant in the room at any point to me

00:27:28 Yeah, it seems pretty predictably

00:27:31 Gonna set him off

00:27:34 Okay, and in a way that makes sense, of course, right

00:27:37 Now how did things go with your mom who I guess obviously was your primary caregiver at that time?

00:27:44 Uh, like I said, she put us in public school and she was very she was depressed I think at one point she was diagnosed

00:27:50 Okay, it was

00:27:53 It was not good. In fact, I just remember like this year that uh

00:27:57 When I was 10 years old and I remembered it distinctly it was one of those

00:28:00 In the kitchen with my little brother

00:28:03 We had just gotten back from school

00:28:06 And she's sort of asking us about it and I said something like

00:28:10 This place is just a storage unit so we can go back to school now. It's referring to our family home

00:28:17 And that's word for word

00:28:19 And did your mother was she was she warm, um at any time or

00:28:29 How was she in terms of affection and connection?

00:28:33 Um

00:28:38 I'd say pretty often warm pretty often warm

00:28:42 It still is

00:28:47 And did she ever talk to you about

00:28:53 Your father being gone and why that was the case

00:28:58 Like when you were little I mean, how old were you when he was pretty much gone the whole time, wasn't he?

00:29:03 Yeah the whole time

00:29:07 So

00:29:09 So, yeah, did she talk to you about you know, why is your dad why your dad is gone and all that

00:29:16 No, I don't remember anything like that

00:29:19 And did your father talk to you about why he was gone and why

00:29:23 You had no dad so to speak for for a lot of time

00:29:26 I don't remember that but he must have well, I shouldn't say must have but I would expect that sort of behavior out of him

00:29:34 But I would have been really really young

00:29:36 So why it's funny that you beat your head

00:29:41 I mean not funny funny, but you know what I mean that you beat your head against

00:29:46 The wall when you were a kid and what did your father end up with?

00:29:49 Right brain trauma. Yeah head injury, right? I mean, it's one of these kind of funny little time loop things, right?

00:29:55 uh, it's obviously a coincidence, but

00:29:58 Um, it's interesting

00:30:02 Did you have any sense or when did you first understand the risk that your father was taking

00:30:08 Being gone

00:30:12 Uh, I'm totally guessing here but I put it at three or four years like as soon as you're able to three or four years

00:30:21 old maybe

00:30:22 So you knew that he might never come back

00:30:24 Right. Yeah as soon as I

00:30:26 Yeah as far literally as far back as I can remember that that was normal life. I

00:30:31 Kind of assume that's what every kid did. But yeah, it was totally

00:30:33 he could have died any given day, especially of course, I can't get into specifics, but the nature of his

00:30:39 uh

00:30:40 The army is a big place and he no, no, I get it. He was he was not a he was not cooking washington. I get that

00:30:46 right, so

00:30:48 Who told you at the age of four or whatever who told you that your father?

00:30:53 Was at risk of dying every time he was gone

00:31:00 I really couldn't tell you stuff, but it had to be either mom or dad

00:31:03 Uh-huh

00:31:07 Did this give a kind of poignancy to you when you I mean obviously you said goodbye to dad a whole bunch of times

00:31:13 did this give a kind of poignancy to you with regards to your father when he would go like might never see him again and

00:31:18 Yeah, it was a very um

00:31:23 It was almost the expectation

00:31:25 Mom was always watching the news kind of thing and dudes were dying all the time, right?

00:31:30 So yeah, it was saying goodbye was an emotional thing and also when you every time you get a telegram, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly

00:31:37 Okay, sorry you were saying oh yeah dudes dying all the time and so on right

00:31:43 And to the telegram point, I mean that would happen there would be

00:31:46 You know three months with no contact then there would be some I don't know maybe an email from a guy

00:31:51 He knew or whatever that was that was real for the first 10 years or so. Oh three months. No contact. Wow

00:31:57 Yeah, definitely. So so mom and and all her kids are just sort of bracing for that news

00:32:02 Wow for a lot of a lot of those years

00:32:04 I'm, sorry about all of that. That's that's horrendous

00:32:07 So

00:32:14 What happened with you and friends in school when you were very little

00:32:26 Friends in school when I was very little or I don't like little little but you know single digits

00:32:30 They sort of came and went I was I was definitely

00:32:36 um

00:32:38 I was identified as a weird kid very early on and that had some

00:32:42 Sort of less when they're really small, but there's still some definitely. Yeah

00:32:45 um

00:32:48 Adverse consequences as far as you know, people are like, oh, that's no, it's a weird kid. We don't talk to him

00:32:51 um, which I sort of appreciate now

00:32:56 And why is that?

00:32:58 Just just I mean just as a um

00:33:00 as a

00:33:02 instinct of these kids to

00:33:04 to block up into sort of what works as far as

00:33:06 Hey, like hey, this is a really unhappy kid. Maybe we shouldn't

00:33:10 Associate with him and that was actually

00:33:13 I remember saying

00:33:16 That I would I was able to smell other army kids. We were all we're all weird in a sort of particular direction

00:33:22 a way that prediction

00:33:25 It was um other than the old before your time I guess

00:33:29 Yes. Wow. How'd you know?

00:33:31 We were we were more serious than our peers. Yeah

00:33:35 I happen to be a lot more serious and still am

00:33:39 And also so smart

00:33:42 And I I didn't like oh man, this is richen

00:33:47 But a lot of the

00:33:52 You know like normal things to talk about just I I had no relationship to to a lot of that stuff

00:33:57 Yeah, does that make sense that's the question yeah, I mean you're dealing with life and death in the early to mid single digits

00:34:05 Yeah

00:34:09 How did you view your father when you were little and you knew he was going to war

00:34:15 Like a like a god emperor right like a hero like a

00:34:21 A superhero, right? Yep. Okay

00:34:23 And did that change over time or did that stay the same

00:34:28 It stayed the same for a long time until I was uh, uh, you know around 12 13

00:34:36 Um, what happened then?

00:34:39 well, then um

00:34:42 Uh, you know what happened then

00:34:46 then I I was getting stronger and I got into the gym at 12 13 and

00:34:50 I uh

00:34:52 Again, it was a very those the 10 years since then have been a very slow gradual process but seeing him

00:34:58 As not that as not a god hero designed by marvel, but as a as a man

00:35:04 and uh

00:35:07 sometimes and unimpressively

00:35:09 Emotionally volatile man. Oh like like triggered kind of thing, right?

00:35:15 Right. Yeah, it's funny, you know because we do think of course if soldiers are supremely disciplined and of course in some way

00:35:20 In some ways they absolutely are yes, but in some ways they're kind of hedonistic with their emotions

00:35:27 Um

00:35:30 Yeah, there's not a lot of self-control when they feel slighted or they feel

00:35:34 Uh, there's some been any kind of loss of status or hierarchy drop

00:35:39 they get very

00:35:41 Aggressive and seem kind of out of control like there's not a lot of self-control with regards to that stuff

00:35:46 uh, right agreed and you can look at I mean there are metrics about the

00:35:50 the alcoholism rates and cigarette smoking rates or

00:35:54 Having horrible girlfriend rates of soldiers. They're

00:35:57 Markedly higher than the rest of the population, right?

00:36:00 yeah, so it's almost like the

00:36:04 What we look at as discipline is almost like

00:36:07 self

00:36:08 sadism or self-attack or almost self-abuse it seems like sometimes because

00:36:12 That same level of discipline that they have over their physical environment, which is again quite impressive

00:36:17 I'm, not gonna i'm not gonna lie, but that same level of

00:36:20 Control that they have over their physical environment. They don't seem to have

00:36:26 over their own emotional apparatus

00:36:30 It is it's a strange thing to see and know and i'll and i'll uh pipe in here

00:36:36 So we don't go too long, but at 17 years old I enlisted into the same army

00:36:40 Ah, okay. Got it. Got it. And what happened with that?

00:36:44 Uh, nothing really I never went to war just out of as a matter of chance, but I did

00:36:51 I volunteered to do what he did basically, right?

00:36:56 Right

00:37:00 Okay, and now

00:37:03 We're still trying to figure out at least i'm trying to why are you beating your head against the wall?

00:37:08 So you did it to the point where it would hurt but I assume you weren't like pouring with blood, right?

00:37:16 Great. Yeah. No, I don't think I've heard the blood ever bled

00:37:18 And other kids saw you do this

00:37:21 Yes. Yeah, we would sit on uh on our butts in a straight line against the wall

00:37:27 And but it would only be you beating your head, right?

00:37:29 Right

00:37:31 And did teach us

00:37:33 And see or or hear about this

00:37:36 Um, they must have seen because we were just out and I didn't know it was something sort of shameful or to be hidden

00:37:43 um

00:37:45 clearly, but and I'm sure I was I was nagged to stop once or twice, but I

00:37:48 I uh

00:37:51 I don't remember

00:37:53 Any sort of sustained like hey, this is completely unacceptable behavior on the part of a child

00:37:57 well

00:37:59 I don't know about I mean completely unacceptable. It's one way to put it i'd be like

00:38:03 Hey, I wonder why this kid has beat his head against the brick wall. Sure terrifying, right?

00:38:08 So I would imagine you were engaged in an experiment called skepticism

00:38:18 Yes, that's probably it I could be wrong obviously could be wrong but I would imagine you were engaged

00:38:28 in an experiment called skepticism

00:38:30 Skeptical of what well

00:38:36 Your father

00:38:40 Is going and risking his life to protect the great wonderful society

00:38:46 Called america, right?

00:38:50 So if it's a great wonderful society that's worth your father risking his life to save

00:38:58 How does it handle a child who is clearly in great emotional and psychological agony

00:39:05 Well, I got the answer go on

00:39:13 um, I mean it's it seems like

00:39:16 and I still believe I had it better than a lot of my peers. So if uh, I was

00:39:21 It was just normal

00:39:24 I was uh, that's one of the better

00:39:27 The better cases that these teachers sort of walked along among

00:39:29 Well, okay, but did you see any teacher deal positively and helpfully and productively with any

00:39:36 Child who was obviously in great pain

00:39:38 Not that I remember but I I assumed that happened why would he assume that happens

00:39:47 There were just so many

00:39:52 Women in there and then so many children like there must have been

00:39:57 Some reaching out

00:39:59 Okay, let's let's let's stick with what we could empirically verify. Okay. Well, yeah, I certainly don't remember

00:40:04 Your head against the wall kids. No

00:40:06 teachers, no

00:40:09 And this is the great society that your father is risking his life to defend

00:40:12 How great is this society? What if I beat my head against the wall? Will anyone care?

00:40:23 Now if people do care then obviously, you know

00:40:26 There's some real positive elements of the society and you can understand from a child's perspective

00:40:31 What your father might be fighting for right? Sure. Yeah

00:40:34 But if they ignore it

00:40:38 And don't care and don't respond and don't lift the damn finger to help a child in obviously massive psychological distress

00:40:44 Then what on earth is your father fighting to protect a society that ignores the pain of children

00:40:51 You

00:40:53 Yes, yeah

00:40:58 I mean your mother ignored it, right?

00:41:02 Right your father ignored it your friends ignored it your teachers ignored it your siblings ignored it extended family ignored it

00:41:11 So what's he fighting for

00:41:17 You

00:41:19 I think like you said earlier, it's um his own

00:41:25 very conservative need or desire to uh for that that

00:41:32 This those stakes in that brotherhood

00:41:36 Well, you know, I mean a lot of guys go to war because they don't like being home

00:41:45 Sure, yeah, and he certainly didn't seem to especially after um, it it sort of

00:41:50 Overtook him

00:41:52 Well, because if you like going to war

00:41:54 You're probably pretty bad at being at home and if you love being at home you won't go to war

00:42:02 I'm with you, right? I mean if he was home and he's like I can't I can't leave my family

00:42:09 I love my children too much. I love my wife too much. I can't leave

00:42:15 Then he would have quit right?

00:42:17 Right and not even not even quit but just not re-upped

00:42:20 Right. Yeah. Sorry. That's a better way to put it. But yeah, he would have not re-upped

00:42:24 Right and even if he wanted to quit there's lots of i've been I did a show many years ago with a guy who

00:42:30 Helped out with that kind of stuff

00:42:33 So

00:42:37 He preferred to go to war than to be at home and

00:42:41 Some of that had to do I guess with the patriotism, although it doesn't sound particularly well thought through

00:42:47 But a lot of it would I assume would have to do with not being able to commit to his family

00:42:54 Uh, I don't know what you mean by not being able to commit he married

00:43:03 Very young

00:43:06 Uh-huh

00:43:07 and made

00:43:08 children immediately

00:43:10 Uh-huh

00:43:11 And then was gone

00:43:12 And then was gone. Yeah, that's the part. I mean about not committing

00:43:16 Sure, sure, but I commit to your family you do what's best for your family. Was it best for your family?

00:43:22 Was it best for his family?

00:43:24 That he was overseas

00:43:26 In wars that to put it as charitably as possible may not have been 100 about defending the american homeland

00:43:35 It was absolutely worse for his family, okay, so that's what I mean by he didn't wake up and say what's objectively best for my wife

00:43:42 and kids

00:43:44 Right. No, so he did not commit to his family

00:43:47 Committing to your family says what's best for your wife and kids, right?

00:43:51 So I like politics

00:43:54 Right. I I mean you know the story arc of the show. I like talking politics. I found politics very interesting

00:44:01 Am I doing politics?

00:44:03 No, why not? Because it ain't the best of my family

00:44:07 Sure, because things were getting a little crazy out there

00:44:10 They're not getting better, right? So

00:44:13 I do what's best for my family, even though I liked politics and it made me very popular, right? And it got me a big audience

00:44:22 I had to walk away

00:44:25 Because i'm committed to my family

00:44:27 Right, so you realize why i'm hopping all of this, right?

00:44:33 Uh, no not yet. Okay. What's your big issue with your girlfriend?

00:44:36 I can't commit to any other

00:44:40 Should I stay or should I go right you have a difficulty committing to your girlfriend, right?

00:44:47 Uh to say the least. Yeah. Yeah. So you see why i'm talking about your dad so much, right? Sure. Yes his failure

00:44:54 In my view to commit to his family

00:44:57 He didn't leave

00:45:00 He didn't stay right, right

00:45:03 He didn't say to his wife. Listen

00:45:06 I I can't be a good father to the father to these kids. I'm gone six to nine months a year and when i'm back

00:45:12 I'm working crazy hours and my head's just not in the game

00:45:15 So listen we need to like I need to leave

00:45:20 and

00:45:23 You know, obviously i'll support the kids but you know

00:45:25 You need to find them a stepdad or like someone who's going to raise these kids right because i'm not here raising them

00:45:31 I need to do what's best for the family either to stay home or if i'm gonna go fight overseas

00:45:35 I need to let the family go so that you guys can get some kind of normal life going

00:45:40 Right, he did he didn't either like i'm doing that he's he's yeah, he's neither there nor not there

00:45:48 And that's you right yes, yeah it is nobody nobody knows what i'm doing till I say it is that fair to say

00:46:00 Talking about my dad deployment i'm trying to talk about my girlfriend, right? Yeah

00:46:03 Right

00:46:09 So why did he neither stay nor go

00:46:16 Um

00:46:21 Well, if we use the analogy that's what i'm doing it's it sounds like weakness

00:46:27 Oh weakness doesn't explain much though

00:46:29 You know if I say why did the bridge fall down it was weak but it doesn't really explain much

00:46:34 I mean, it's almost a tautology

00:46:38 Yeah, why did something not work because it was weak to working? I like, you know, it doesn't add much so

00:46:43 All right

00:46:45 Everything I can think of is a tautology

00:46:57 right

00:46:59 Right

00:47:04 All right, can you think of a time in your life

00:47:09 Where somebody has genuinely sacrificed

00:47:13 Something of value that they really wanted to do for your happiness

00:47:18 And it made you happy

00:47:25 You

00:47:27 Uh, my mother wanted to um

00:47:37 I'm gonna say not be a mom, but she she said she what was that?

00:47:45 I uh

00:47:49 I don't even know what where I was going there with that, but well you're going somewhere

00:47:54 I'm, not trying to catch you out here, but my mom wanted to not be a mom

00:47:58 I'm not

00:48:01 Hearing it or maybe you misspoke, but that's not something I want to pretend you didn't say

00:48:05 No, yeah, I misspoke i'm trying to get to before she was a mom

00:48:09 um

00:48:10 Like if she weren't a mom, she she spoke about these sort of other ambitions she had

00:48:14 Like being in the coast guard because she thought it was cool when she was, you know 15 16 17

00:48:23 Okay, I mean that's a little bit like every kid wants to be an astronaut, right?

00:48:26 Uh, yeah, I agree. So so what else I got nothing. I'm not big at the coast guard at 15. It's okay. What else?

00:48:33 I think some some honest but difficult conversations that you know

00:48:46 At 10 years old or 13 years old would have would have would have satisfied the question you're asking but

00:48:51 Those didn't happen

00:48:53 Who has focused in your life on your happiness

00:49:01 Putting aside all of considerations has focused on your happiness

00:49:21 That's not happened yet, that's why i'm calling well a that's obviously not funny, uh, and and b

00:49:28 The fact that it hasn't happened yet is everything

00:49:33 What do you mean

00:49:38 Well the fact that you're in your early 20s and no one

00:49:42 Has focused on your happiness

00:49:49 Is everything to you because

00:49:51 You don't know any different

00:49:56 I've certainly had um

00:50:02 Friends and girls you probably say this is a meaningless addition

00:50:06 But i've had friends and girlfriends who have cared and sort of been

00:50:09 generous

00:50:12 Okay, listen i'm i'm obviously not i'm not trying to catch you out and and say it hasn't happened

00:50:17 so if you can give me examples, uh, i'd be

00:50:20 I'd be thrilled to to hear them

00:50:23 Quite recently. I've got a i've got a friend from when I was in the army who

00:50:27 Just totally opened his door to me. I was doing something that

00:50:32 Uh necessitated that I sort of wait and and not work and not

00:50:38 buy a place

00:50:40 And not live with my parents. So anyway, I I sort of slept on his in his spare room for weeks

00:50:46 I mean I consider that a

00:50:48 Very large and important kindness and invited me to his family's thanksgiving and all that

00:50:53 um

00:50:54 Okay, listen, and i'm not gonna try and dismiss that

00:50:57 Giving you a place to stay is not focusing on your happiness

00:51:02 Sure, sure it's giving I mean i'm not saying it's unimportant and obviously it's very nice that he did that

00:51:08 But that's not the same as focusing on your happiness

00:51:11 I mean, obviously that's preventing you from being unhappy by having no place to stay but that's not him saying

00:51:16 you know, um

00:51:18 Tell me what you want in life and i'll really work to try and provide it no strings attached

00:51:23 No that that sort of sentence that certainly has never happened

00:51:26 Well, I mean it wouldn't be that sentence exactly but that would be the general sentiment

00:51:33 Right, yeah, not it has not happened

00:51:39 Can you think of a time in your childhood

00:51:45 when

00:51:47 You wanted that to happen and you have some idea of how it might have manifested

00:51:53 Now I can't think of an example

00:52:04 Of me thinking uh, I mean i'll give you just a tiny example from my life when I was

00:52:09 You know 12 or 13. I loved to go swimming

00:52:14 I mean I was basically lived in the water for most of my childhood

00:52:17 You know swim team water polo team and all of that, but in particular at the age of 12 or 13. I absolutely loved going

00:52:23 swimming and in particular

00:52:25 You know

00:52:25 They had these big old dive giant diving boards that you could go up and do flips and a half and corkscrews and all that

00:52:31 Kind of stuff. I just love doing that

00:52:33 I love that feeling of going up into the air feeling like you could fly for a moment and then twisting landing in the water

00:52:38 As perfect as I could and I love that anyway, so

00:52:43 There was swimming friday nights and sundays

00:52:45 during the day

00:52:48 and one

00:52:50 Friday I left I had only one bathing suit because you know poor kid and all right. And so one one sunday

00:52:57 Sorry one one friday. I uh, sadly left my bathing suit

00:53:02 At school in in my locker and actually I never even had a lock for my locker

00:53:07 I just had a little bolt and screw. Uh, because that was my high level of security back then

00:53:12 And I because I realized I would like i'd go two hours friday

00:53:16 I'd get two hours sunday to to swim and swim and swim and dive and dive and dive

00:53:20 And I realized without my bathing suit, of course

00:53:22 I couldn't go and the school was locked and I couldn't get to my locker. So I was very very desperate for a bathing suit

00:53:30 Plus, you know, I kind of needed a new bathing suit

00:53:32 Anyway, you know when they start to get those little rolly ruffs on them because they're kind of falling apart

00:53:36 And I didn't want it to split

00:53:38 This is back in the days of banana hammock speedo

00:53:41 Central and anyway, um after a certain amount of of really wanting this

00:53:45 Uh, my mother did in fact take me over and she bought me

00:53:48 A cheap bathing suit. I don't want to say cheap like it's it was bad

00:53:53 I was happy to get it and she was nice to do it

00:53:56 Uh, and and it was a good thing to do but that was a time where I I really wanted something

00:54:01 My mother did accommodate me and I did get to go

00:54:04 Swimming and not in this, you know ratty old

00:54:08 Um half falling apart bathing suit situation

00:54:10 And that just one instance where she really did focus on something that would make me happy didn't have to do it

00:54:17 But it was it was nice that she did it was stuff like that

00:54:20 Well, definitely i'm sure that uh

00:54:27 There are many examples like that

00:54:29 from my facilitated by my parents

00:54:31 And whether I can remember one specifically

00:54:36 It was it was it was kind of like a getting getting pizza ordered to the house

00:54:40 It's kind of like a celebration ritual we did when uh, when dad was home

00:54:44 so

00:54:45 definitely, we'd you know, it'd be

00:54:47 It'd be a school night or something and no but that's a that's a family thing for your dad

00:54:52 And i'm not saying you didn't enjoy it, but that wasn't focused on your happiness

00:55:03 My mother didn't want to buy me a bathing suit I wanted her to buy me a bathing suit and she did focus on

00:55:08 My happiness at that right at that time

00:55:10 It was something I mean if it's in fact in a sense negative for the other person

00:55:15 right, then

00:55:17 That makes it even more sort of focused on on your happiness, right?

00:55:20 Yes. Yeah

00:55:23 Where

00:55:25 You know your mother comes home and says, you know, hey, I remember you talking about

00:55:28 You know this particular whatever it is

00:55:33 A week or two ago, so I made sure to order it for you. And here it is or you know something thoughtful

00:55:38 Which is focused on something that makes you happy

00:55:41 Even if it's incomprehensible to her

00:55:44 I'm gonna pull the i'm sure it happened card

00:56:00 Well, no because if it I would accept that if it was common

00:56:03 Then we don't remember right the details if it's rare though. We remember the details because it's very different, right?

00:56:10 Right, but that I remember very very little overall

00:56:17 Well, that's because there was a monotony to it

00:56:20 Yeah, right

00:56:23 Yeah

00:56:25 So

00:56:28 Did you have a teacher that focused on what was best for you in terms of learning or what made you happy

00:56:36 We had a couple very nice teachers and I grown up in a small town I remember one of them

00:56:52 um

00:56:54 I was doing I was I was sort of a whatever star math kid growing all the way through

00:56:59 But uh one point I was I was kind of slipping and getting things wrong

00:57:03 and she said uh, just like kind of casual remark after class she was like

00:57:08 Hey, you know sort of why are you?

00:57:10 Are you sort of slipping towards the main here?

00:57:13 And uh, she says it because your dad's gone and I didn't even think about it. I just exploded with enough tears to wet my socks

00:57:23 I do remember that but okay

00:57:25 um

00:57:26 That wasn't specifically focused on your happiness. Although it was a thoughtful thing to say

00:57:31 Yeah

00:57:33 Okay, so is it fair to say that you don't have the experience of somebody focusing on your happiness? What's best for you?

00:57:39 at the exclusion of their own preferences

00:57:42 Yes, I think that's fair and and just even you saying it me imagining that sounds kind of discomforting like what's like

00:57:49 What's wrong with that? What do you mean?

00:57:52 um

00:57:54 I don't know like I haven't earned that yet or something

00:57:56 Well, the whole point of people being nice to you is you're not supposed to earn it, right?

00:58:00 Uh, yeah, and it's just a trade of good for good, right?

00:58:04 Sure. I mean it's like

00:58:07 the restaurant

00:58:09 Waitress isn't that nice for you if she knows you're gonna stiffer on the bill, right?

00:58:12 Right

00:58:15 So you don't you know, you earn her niceness by paying the bill or giving her a tip or whatever, right?

00:58:19 Yes

00:58:22 right

00:58:23 so

00:58:24 can you picture what it would be like for someone to wake up in the morning and

00:58:29 Think of what's going to make your day better

00:58:33 And focus on that

00:58:37 I can picture it. Yes. Okay. And what do you think or feel when you picture that?

00:58:44 I've got a marrier, right

00:58:49 Does your girlfriend do that?

00:58:52 No, okay, that's why you won't marry her

00:58:55 But is there a is there an issue of cause and effect there like that is that sort of

00:59:00 Why would she we've

00:59:04 We've not why would you focus on your happiness

00:59:07 Because she wants to get married that's why

00:59:11 uh

00:59:13 Why would she what do you mean? Why would she focus? Why would why would the woman who loves me focus on my happiness?

00:59:18 What?

00:59:20 What are you saying soldier I don't understand

00:59:23 Why wouldn't she

00:59:49 That's a good point

00:59:51 Because if you've not had that happen it would be hard for you to do that for others, right

01:00:03 It is

01:00:08 now

01:00:09 Did your girlfriend I assume she did of course I could be wrong. But did your girlfriend grow up in a situation where?

01:00:17 Other people were not focused on her happiness

01:00:20 at the exclusion of their own immediate self-interest

01:00:24 Absolutely. So does she would she understand this language or this perspective really at all?

01:00:31 Uh, no

01:00:35 So what's drawing you together if it's not taking genuine pleasure in the other person's happiness

01:00:43 You

01:00:45 We do but it's it's uh, it's measured

01:00:52 Um

01:01:01 And it starts usually parent-child right I was just

01:01:04 On a hike with my daughter the other day and we passed by

01:01:08 a stinking

01:01:11 vile

01:01:12 bog

01:01:13 like a swamp

01:01:14 gross

01:01:15 now

01:01:17 Many years ago when my daughter first got into catching animals

01:01:21 Right, and she loved to catch, you know frogs and toads and salamanders and things like that, right?

01:01:27 The reason I shuddered a little bit when we went past that bog is I remember floundering around in there

01:01:35 10 years ago trying to help my daughter

01:01:41 Frogs and salamanders and toads and maybe even some minnows

01:01:46 Now is it my preferred thing to do in life as a whole

01:01:53 To flounder around in a stinky vile oily bog

01:01:58 looking for little critters

01:02:01 Certainly not absolutely not

01:02:04 But I took great delight in it 10 years ago

01:02:08 You

01:02:10 It was a blast

01:02:12 I look back on it with great fondness though. You could not pay me to do it again

01:02:15 At least until I get grandkids then i'm sure i'll be right back in that bog floundering around like a wounded buffalo

01:02:21 Or a mastodon trying to get out of a tar pit, right?

01:02:24 I'll be right back in there and i'll be having a blast with the grandkids

01:02:28 I very much look forward to that well and it's

01:02:36 It's fun because it's time spent with my daughter

01:02:40 And she's loving it

01:02:44 And I love that she's loving it this is what I signed up for I I wanted to become a father

01:02:50 And that's the deal if it makes her happy i'm focused on it

01:02:56 Now

01:03:00 She is obsessed with making me great food

01:03:04 Oh, no, no, it's wonderful. Are you kidding me? She's good, man. Awesome. She makes these sandwiches full of stuff

01:03:11 I'd never even think of putting together but it's like fireworks in my mouth

01:03:14 And she makes these smoothies and she gives me like cut up apples with a little bit of yogurt and granola, ah, it's fantastic

01:03:24 Right now. Yeah, i'm not and she literally says please tell me every time you're hungry

01:03:30 I love making the food

01:03:34 That is so cool, well, I mean, you know deposits and withdrawals so to speak right?

01:03:40 And I have never said I did all these things I didn't want to

01:03:46 Because her want like her taking her having a great deal of fun

01:03:51 With this and loving it

01:03:54 Means it's fun for me

01:03:57 You know, she loves ducks man. She's just queen duck

01:04:00 So we have ducks

01:04:04 In is there any sane universe in which i'd have ducks if I wasn't a parent? Absolutely not. I didn't even know you could

01:04:09 But we get ducks and she loves them and I love that she loves them

01:04:16 And i'll go out with her and we'll check the ducks and we'll check the eggs and we'll

01:04:22 Take them to the pond and like yep. Absolutely

01:04:26 You know, I I don't walk up and down rivers

01:04:29 But I enjoyed doing it when I was a kid and my daughter enjoys river hiking and catching the crayfish and all the it's kind

01:04:35 Of cool stuff, right?

01:04:37 Yeah. Yeah

01:04:39 So it's fun and it's great memories

01:04:41 It's nothing I do without that. I'm sorry

01:04:43 I know that i'm like rambling a little here, but I just want to sort of get across to the idea

01:04:47 That if it's great fun for her i'm gonna love it

01:04:52 I uh, I very much have that idea

01:04:56 Not just from your show, of course, but but that's like this is the standard I have

01:05:00 I'm yet not able to meet it

01:05:02 if that makes sense

01:05:04 Right, right. I'm right there with you. This is this is exactly what i'm after. Okay, and I

01:05:08 Good I won't but but but that's the general idea and it seems to me

01:05:14 That you've not been on the receiving end of that

01:05:22 Well with regards to withdrawals and deposits again, I don't think i've uh, I said why would she earlier i've not i'm not deposited, uh

01:05:30 Hmm

01:05:38 Maybe i've got cause and effect backwards

01:05:41 Well

01:05:44 It's interesting, of course, you know as a male you would first self-criticize right?

01:05:48 Yeah, also as an army guy you would first self-criticize

01:05:52 Well, it must be me then. I I must be the one who's not modeling it or doing it or whatever, right?

01:05:57 But I don't think you particularly maybe you did or didn't but I don't know that you particularly knew before this part of the the call

01:06:04 that this was significantly missing and

01:06:07 The main reason why you haven't committed

01:06:10 Right

01:06:17 So we get married when we can't do any better and we can't do better when

01:06:23 Someone is really dedicated to our happiness

01:06:28 And in return we wish to be dedicated to their happiness

01:06:34 I did I learned this from my wife just by the by I didn't learn this from my family

01:06:46 I didn't learn this from my friends. I didn't learn this from extended

01:06:48 Family, I didn't learn this from teachers or priests or or philosophers or anything like that

01:06:53 You know, she takes genuine and deep pleasure in the happiness of her family

01:07:03 And it's something i'd not experienced before

01:07:07 It was kind of disorienting

01:07:10 Once I got it i'm like

01:07:16 Okay, then we get married

01:07:18 But i'd been in multi-year relationships before that I hadn't committed to within three months i'm like, yeah we get married

01:07:27 Interesting

01:07:31 So

01:07:34 When it comes to thinking of your girlfriend's happiness

01:07:41 What's the limit for you?

01:07:45 Like what is it that makes it tough to just say i'm just gonna

01:07:49 Work to to make her happy. I'm just gonna work to to satisfy her needs and her preferences and make her life as delightful as I can

01:07:56 I'm not saying you should do that. I'm just curious if that I mean i'm sure that thought has crossed your mind

01:08:03 And what's the barrier there?

01:08:05 What's the negative outcome if you do that

01:08:08 Um, well I view the

01:08:14 Sort of the work i'm doing as very very much of the priority. Um, and I mean, I mean

01:08:22 Like money and future planning and sort of setting the conditions for for having a family

01:08:27 so

01:08:28 Now that is that but does your girlfriend agree that that's

01:08:32 What makes her the happiest is you doing that stuff? It could absolutely be that case, right?

01:08:36 But does your girlfriend is your girlfriend also of the perspective?

01:08:41 that you working on the job and the money and the

01:08:44 Savings and building the foundation for the future family

01:08:47 Is that what makes her the happiest at this moment in her life?

01:08:50 No, and how do you know that?

01:08:58 Well, she um

01:09:07 Seems to regard the like sort of stuff what i'm doing is this is kind of

01:09:11 Indiscriminate and not that interesting blocks of time that we during which we can't be together

01:09:16 Well, no, I get that. I mean she'd rather be with you, but does she agree?

01:09:20 You know, let me sort of give you an example, right

01:09:24 So let's say your girlfriend has a really really bad headache, but there's no

01:09:30 Tylenol or whatever aspirin in the house, right?

01:09:34 And then you say hey, uh, i'll go and get it right now

01:09:37 This is time that you won't be together

01:09:40 But would she be happy that you're going to get the painkiller?

01:09:44 Right. She's not that way about about what i'm doing. Okay, so that's good to know

01:09:50 And have you asked her what would make her the happiest?

01:09:54 No, how long have you been going out

01:09:59 Uh going on three months, okay

01:10:04 Why haven't you asked her and I don't mean this to be accusatory. It's genuinely a curious question

01:10:09 Why haven't you asked her what would make her the happiest?

01:10:11 Is it too soon I mean three months is a relatively young relationship

01:10:20 I don't think it's too soon though given the you're raw dogging. Yeah, maybe not

01:10:25 Okay, maybe

01:10:28 Um, but it's serious enough relationship that you're thinking of marriage, right?

01:10:32 Yes. Yeah, absolutely from the from the first time we met

01:10:35 Okay

01:10:38 So why haven't you asked her what would make her the happiest?

01:10:40 And again i'm i'm not trying to accuse you i'm just genuine wouldn't that be

01:10:46 A good thing to do it totally would but I I haven't it's interesting

01:10:53 So why not?

01:10:55 the answer seems to be uh

01:10:57 So I haven't asked her but I I think I have a pretty good idea that

01:11:01 You know, but you would ask her

01:11:03 Certainly that wouldn't hurt. Yes. Yeah, you're a waiter and you have a pretty good idea what the guy might want to eat you still say

01:11:09 Hey, what do you want to eat? I would recommend the xyz but what do you want right? Right? Yeah

01:11:17 Okay, so why haven't you asked her

01:11:28 I'm gonna answer your question with a question and say it's because I know is it because I know um

01:11:34 We have sort of divergent end goals. Nope, not that at all

01:11:39 Cool. No, it's not that do you want to know why?

01:11:43 Yeah, i'd love to

01:11:45 Well, i'm gonna answer your i'm gonna preface my answer with a question

01:11:50 Why didn't your parents when you were a child ask you what would make you happiest?

01:11:54 I

01:11:56 Their needs came first well because

01:12:01 If they ask you

01:12:04 What makes you happiest?

01:12:07 They're going to be unhappy right, right

01:12:11 Yeah

01:12:15 And so asking someone else what they want makes you unhappy

01:12:21 You

01:12:23 So if you ask your girlfriend what she wants you're screwed

01:12:28 Because she's gonna want something that maybe is gonna make you unhappy and then what

01:12:46 And then we know we're not gonna get married no, no, no forget all of that

01:12:49 No, no this you're jumping straight off to this marriage not marriage thing. No, no

01:12:54 No, there's a whole other bunch of stuff we go through before all of that nonsense. No, no, forget all that

01:12:58 We're just we're just dealing with this, right?

01:13:00 So if I want to stay home

01:13:06 And right and I know my daughter wants to go for a long hike

01:13:10 Yeah, am I gonna ask my daughter what she wants to do?

01:13:13 No, I am not

01:13:17 Right

01:13:18 right

01:13:19 Unless I get my head out of my ass

01:13:21 And I say i've got i'm gonna live to my 80s. I've got

01:13:26 30 years to write

01:13:28 My daughter is 15 and a half

01:13:31 Which means all too soon. She ain't gonna want to go on lots of hikes with her old man, right?

01:13:37 Right. Yeah

01:13:39 So I get my head out of my ass

01:13:41 I throw my keyboard away and we go on the hike

01:13:45 I

01:13:47 I'm not losing my writing by going on a hike with my daughter

01:13:54 I'm gaining a great memory with my daughter, which is exactly what parenting is supposed to be all about and I can write later

01:14:00 Sure, but I can't go on a hike with my 15 year old daughter later because she won't be 15 anymore

01:14:06 Right. Do you see what I mean? Yes

01:14:09 So

01:14:12 If I think I want to write and if I go on a hike with my daughter i'm losing out

01:14:17 I'm not going to ask her what

01:14:20 She wants to do

01:14:22 That's your parents isn't it

01:14:28 I want to be a soldier and if I ask my son, do you want me to be a soldier? What's my son gonna say?

01:14:35 Resounding no from all. No, I don't want you to be a soldier

01:14:42 Oh, then I don't get to be a soldier

01:14:44 Right. Oh, man, that's terrible. So the last thing I ever want to do is ask my son what he wants

01:14:50 Do you see what I mean? Yes

01:14:54 If he asks your mom do you want me to go and deploy when you were little what your mom say

01:15:03 Absolutely not

01:15:07 Right

01:15:12 So that's the win-lose mentality if other people get what that what they want I don't get what I want

01:15:19 If I get what I want other people don't get what they want that's win-lose

01:15:24 Yes, and you can never fully commit to win-lose

01:15:29 Because it's always this kind of tense standoff and mexican standoff and negotiation and somebody always loses usually the kids, right

01:15:38 Yeah

01:15:42 So if i'm saying I want to write and if I don't get to write that's bad

01:15:45 My daughter wants to go on a hike if I do what she wants. I lose writing. That's bad

01:15:49 I may go on the hike, but maybe i'm kind of resentful or maybe i'm kind of quiet like it's stupid, right?

01:15:54 Yes

01:15:56 as opposed to

01:15:58 You know get your head out of your ass and go and have a great hike with your daughter because she's going to be gone

01:16:05 Before you know it

01:16:07 You

01:16:09 And then I don't lose anything I gain but it requires a shift in perspective

01:16:18 It requires letting go of your selfish needs in the moment I want to write

01:16:29 And saying what do I really want

01:16:37 Well, what I really want is not another chapter or another little article or whatever it is what I want

01:16:43 is

01:16:46 A great time with my daughter. That's what I really want

01:16:48 That's what's more important to me, but I have to let go of just that. I want I want right

01:16:52 I don't know if this makes any sense, but

01:16:54 it does

01:16:58 You

01:17:00 And we go on the hike and it's a great time and I don't miss the writing at all

01:17:12 and the funny thing is

01:17:14 Probably i'm actually helping my writing

01:17:17 Yeah, probably

01:17:20 Right because at some point

01:17:22 Years down the road I can write a scene where a father goes hiking with his daughter and get it. All right

01:17:27 Sure, or I could write about a selfish guy who doesn't go hiking with his daughter and gets it all wrong

01:17:32 I i'm actually helping my writing too

01:17:34 Yeah, and if you know she that's what she wants to do during your writing you'd probably be distracted by that missed opportunity

01:17:42 Yes. Yes. Yes. Could I could I write about a truly benevolent loving character?

01:17:47 If I did that right, right

01:17:53 right

01:17:55 So I don't think you particularly know

01:18:04 The joys that come from devoting yourself to the happiness of another

01:18:11 I think you hold yourself back from that because your parents modeled win-lose

01:18:21 If your mother wins and your father stays home your father's unhappy

01:18:25 If your father wins and leaves your mother's unhappy and so are his kids

01:18:30 Okay

01:18:36 But there's an even darker win-lose which is around the child beating

01:18:49 The child beating which I mean the beatings with the the belts and the the implements

01:18:55 Wooden spoon wasn't it wooden spoon and belts. That's right. So the beating is

01:19:03 I can't motivate you by my example, so I have to punish you. Yes

01:19:12 So

01:19:16 You were beaten for

01:19:19 What thinking in opposition to your father what were the key things

01:19:23 Sorry, if I if you mentioned that what were the key things that you were beaten for?

01:19:26 Uh offending my mother was definitely the the biggest one his wife right so you can't hurt your mother, right?

01:19:34 Yeah, it can't hurt the woman's feelings, right?

01:19:38 Although she's turned into a heartbroken widow

01:19:41 Once twice a year, right your father hurts her incredibly deeply regularly

01:19:48 That's right. So he can't obviously motivate you by his example

01:19:51 You gotta think of your mother's feelings first never hurt her, okay i'm off to war

01:19:58 Absolutely, right so he can't motivate you by example, so you have to punish you what else

01:20:06 Well, then, uh after her then then him sort of just

01:20:16 Yeah, you gotta you gotta think of my feelings first, right yes

01:20:19 Yeah, then but he but he you can't think of a single time where he thought of your feelings first

01:20:23 So he can't motivate you by example

01:20:30 Definitely not

01:20:32 I mean, I think

01:20:33 I helped to motivate my daughter into this way of looking at things or this way of experiencing life

01:20:39 I mean my wife even more so than me

01:20:42 Yeah

01:20:44 So

01:20:49 Win-win

01:20:53 and and

01:20:55 Motivating you through moral behavior rather than punishing you for replicating your parents behavior because it is kind of hypocritical, right? You get beaten

01:21:03 Yeah, or upsetting your mother and your dad gets like medals and a pension for having your mother

01:21:12 You're a bad guy for upsetting your mother your dad is a hero for upsetting your mother

01:21:16 You're a bad guy for not putting your father's needs first your father never seems to put your needs first last or anywhere

01:21:27 So, how the hell are you supposed to learn how to put other people's needs first if it doesn't happen to you

01:21:38 It's like expressingly it's like expressly forbidding you from learning anything to do with japanese and then punishing you for not knowing japanese

01:21:45 Well, you learn japanese eventually

01:21:52 Most people don't your parents didn't

01:21:55 Right, and I I can't stand to uh that that possibility. I reject that right

01:22:07 If you

01:22:09 Okay, let's let's we'll get real to the core of the fear here and and if i'm wrong obviously tell me i'm exploring

01:22:15 So if I go astray set me straight, I I implore you

01:22:18 Is not the fear

01:22:22 Why why are people not generous in this way? Why don't they put the needs of other people's first because they fear being exploited

01:22:32 Right if I put your needs ahead of mine, you're just going to exploit me and eat me alive definitely

01:22:37 Do you have that concern with your girlfriend? I'm not saying whether it's rational or not

01:22:42 I'm, just saying do you have that concern that if you're really really generous and thoughtful towards what she needs

01:22:47 That she's just gonna use and exploit you

01:22:49 Or is she gonna reciprocate

01:22:53 I uh

01:22:57 Well, I think I think her

01:23:01 I think her

01:23:03 this doesn't this might not make sense, but being really generous and

01:23:05 and uh doing exactly what she wants, I think that's

01:23:09 I think that's my my commitment and my

01:23:12 Uh, you know giving our kids and all that stuff. So sorry, what do you mean? That's your commitment? Tell me what you mean

01:23:19 I think what would make her most happy at this point in in her life. It would be

01:23:25 For me to

01:23:29 Date her for a while longer and then and then definitely propose and give her a family

01:23:33 Hmm interesting

01:23:39 Okay

01:23:44 Now would that make you happy

01:23:49 At the moment, I don't think so me neither right so

01:23:57 You have to take joy in bringing joy to her now if you bring joy to her at your own expense

01:24:04 That's not really sustainable, right?

01:24:08 Right. Yeah

01:24:10 So what's the barrier to bringing joy to her and enjoying it? So let's say you said what would make you the happiest?

01:24:18 And what do you think you said you have some idea and and I know that there's the the wife and kids thing

01:24:24 Is there anything in the more short term?

01:24:27 What would make her happier?

01:24:29 Uh, yes, yeah, i've definitely got some idea

01:24:35 And what might that be

01:24:39 specific dates to um

01:24:41 You know certain parks and restaurants

01:24:43 Stuff like that. Oh, okay. So she there's a particular restaurant

01:24:47 She wants to go to and if you planned that out ahead of time, she'd be very happy. That's right. Okay

01:24:52 and

01:24:54 What has prevented you from doing that do you think?

01:24:57 Um

01:25:02 And you would enjoy that too I assume

01:25:04 Yeah, definitely. Okay. So what would most most because yeah, what's she would that?

01:25:08 Well, it's just been my my schedule

01:25:10 My my being busy and it is and I do fully intend to do these things within 10 14 days here

01:25:16 I'm, sorry, your schedule has precluded you from eating out

01:25:22 Uh

01:25:24 No, not entirely but uh, certainly put it off yeah

01:25:30 Okay. I mean, let's go through some of the traditional stuff, right?

01:25:33 Does she work?

01:25:36 She does. Yes. Okay

01:25:38 uh would

01:25:40 Would it give her pleasure for you to have flowers sent to her?

01:25:43 workplace with a romantic note

01:25:46 Yes, absolutely. Okay. Now that doesn't require that you be off work, right? You're right. Yep

01:25:52 So and and you know women they like the bragging rights

01:25:55 Look, my boyfriend sent me all these flowers. Oh, you're so lucky. You know this that's nice, right?

01:26:00 Yes

01:26:02 So what would prevent you I mean, this is like sending a woman flowers

01:26:05 It's not exactly brain surgery when it comes to right? So what would have prevented you from doing that?

01:26:10 Nothing nothing, uh practical. Well, no, okay, but what what in your mind and again, that's not a big criticism

01:26:18 I'm genuinely curious what in your mind would have prevented you from doing that?

01:26:22 you

01:26:24 Well sounds like this sort of uh

01:26:29 This reservation you're talking about like this being on guard

01:26:33 Okay on guard for what

01:26:36 On god for her to take advantage of

01:26:40 Okay, so so play it out if if you start doing things that make her really happy

01:26:47 What is your concern and again rational or not?

01:26:50 We're just cast it like just dig deep and what's what's the cause and effect or what's the worst?

01:26:54 Case scenario that might happen here. The cause is sort of my generosity and affections. I I am it is rational

01:27:01 I'm, very sure that they would have the effect of

01:27:04 Just drowning her in infatuation

01:27:07 and

01:27:10 Sort of a need for me

01:27:13 Which is sorry so you're drowning her in infatuation. I mean, it sounds like an 80s romantic song

01:27:19 What what what does that mean? Like in practical terms? What what happens just sort of?

01:27:24 So she likes me as is that I haven't done this sort of thing

01:27:28 To to whatever degree. Oh, so you like you might appear too needy and desperate

01:27:32 No, no, um, she might like me too much

01:27:36 Oh, it might make her too happy and then she gets really attached to you

01:27:43 Correct, which isn't itself bad. But if i'm well if we're not going to stick together then it is

01:27:48 Uh, well, does that make sense, uh, well it made the fear makes sense the the way it would play out in reality doesn't at all

01:27:56 So let's say you spend the next week or two really working on making her happy

01:28:06 There's only one of three outcomes

01:28:13 What are they I mean two major ones

01:28:15 Uh, well I would get to see her

01:28:22 Her sort of response and if she yeah, so what are the two basic the two basic responses?

01:28:28 She could have she does reciprocate. She doesn't reciprocate. Well, she either she does reciprocate or b she raises her expectations becomes more demanding

01:28:35 And it's unpleasant

01:28:38 Yeah

01:28:42 So you send her flowers every week and then she doesn't respond you stop sending her flowers and she's like

01:28:47 Hey, why don't you send me any flowers?

01:28:49 Well, that's your answer isn't it

01:28:53 Right. Yeah

01:28:55 Because she is not responding to generosity

01:28:58 with reciprocity

01:29:01 But with thanking

01:29:04 Right with bitchiness, right?

01:29:06 Yes, she's become entitled

01:29:08 And she has not even once it not even has once crossed her mind that she might want to make you happy as well

01:29:14 That would be very great to find out yes, well, it wouldn't be fun, but it's pretty important right important. Yes, right generosity

01:29:23 Almost never fails and when we withhold ourself from generosity we withhold ourself from certainty

01:29:32 Because that's what bothering you about

01:29:37 So you're you're hedging saying oh, I don't want to be too nice. I don't want to be so then you're uncertain

01:29:41 But go be generous

01:29:43 Be generous

01:29:46 And you find out you get closure you get certainty either way

01:29:53 Either she's like, holy crap

01:29:56 It's the best guy ever and she racks her brain to make you as happy as possible in which case yay, right?

01:30:01 Yeah

01:30:05 Or she just takes it all for granted and it raises her expectations and she just gets bitchy

01:30:09 Okay

01:30:14 I mean I said there were three the one is that nothing changes, but that's very unusual

01:30:19 Like you just keep she just

01:30:22 She doesn't get any more bitchy, but she doesn't reciprocate or whatever right because when you're generous you give people power over you

01:30:29 Oh

01:30:32 Right. Yeah. Yeah, definitely and now either they're going to turn into an equal or they're going to turn into a bitchy queen, right?

01:30:39 Yes

01:30:43 But you you want as soon as possible in a relationship you want to give the woman power over you

01:30:50 Interesting I know as a man this kind of goes against the crane a little right

01:30:58 I must be the lord of king kong isolation and patriarchal

01:31:01 Whatever right? But no

01:31:04 If you really like the woman say, oh, I really like you, right?

01:31:07 You think of ways to make her happy. Oh, that's being such a simp. It's like no absolutely not

01:31:12 The simp is one who does it and doesn't look for reciprocity

01:31:17 Yeah, right

01:31:20 Yep

01:31:22 You

01:31:24 The simp is one

01:31:31 Who makes it a masochistic commandment to serve women?

01:31:34 And almost doesn't want anything in return. That's that's pathetic. I mean, I don't even understand that at all

01:31:41 Yeah, but

01:31:43 generosity

01:31:46 in relationships

01:31:48 Is the best way to find out if someone's marriage material?

01:31:51 You

01:31:53 That's awesome, it's like it's like who's a good friend well you lend money to your friend, right?

01:32:04 I'm sure you've had a broke friend. I know I have i've been that broke friend from time to time

01:32:08 And you know you lend money to your friends

01:32:11 And then if your friend dodges you and won't pay you back

01:32:16 You've just saved yourself a whole lot of time and money

01:32:20 Get closure. Yeah. Hey great you I remember there was a guy I lent 800 bucks to

01:32:26 and

01:32:29 Man, it was such a go man

01:32:31 You know, he was really pretty dodgy and evasive and listen I wasn't like

01:32:38 You have to pay me back right now I was like just tell me I I gotta plan my finances just tell me

01:32:47 What's happening don't just dodge me that's gross

01:32:50 I mean if something's happened and you can't pay me back. Hey, man, I get it stuff happens, but I gotta know what's going on

01:32:57 So saved a lot of time and money, but that guy

01:33:06 I remember I had a was a jamaican friend in

01:33:13 High school. He needed I think it was in grade 10

01:33:17 He he needed he borrowed uh, five dollars from me to go to a dance at school or I can't something like that

01:33:23 Totally dodged me

01:33:26 Afterwards like wouldn't wouldn't even acknowledge it and just kind of laughed. Oh, yeah, whatever, right?

01:33:30 Yeah

01:33:33 All right

01:33:35 Good to know sure I don't regret the 800 bucks. I don't regret

01:33:43 The five bucks, I mean I helped make a girlfriend of mine I wanted to get in the film business

01:33:48 But I was doing pretty well in the software industry

01:33:50 I like produced and wrote produced and funded an entire short film for her pretty bloody pricey

01:33:55 Yeah

01:33:58 I don't regret that money for a second

01:34:00 Because it helped me not get married to her

01:34:03 That is awesome

01:34:06 Generosity

01:34:09 With an eye to reciprocity is one of the greatest liberating principles

01:34:13 known to man

01:34:15 Stinginess never solves the problem of doubt generosity with an eye to reciprocity always does

01:34:24 Okay

01:34:33 Did this make sense?

01:34:35 That makes great sense. Yeah, it's a strong man

01:34:39 To be confident in my view. It's a strong man and woman to be confident enough to be generous

01:34:43 And see what comes back

01:34:48 I mean you understand the foundation of this whole show why you and I are having this conversation at all is that whole principle

01:34:55 My whole principle is be as generous as humanly possible with philosophy and see what comes back

01:35:00 I'm, not saying donate for this call. I'm not talking about that at all

01:35:03 But the whole point is I don't charge for the calls, right?

01:35:07 Right, right. I see it's just generosity right this this will be useful to you useful to the world and we'll see what comes back

01:35:12 You know, it's been been pretty good

01:35:17 I've got a roof over my head. I've got a used car in the driveway things are all right

01:35:24 And the biggest show biggest philosophy show ever

01:35:29 It's certainly at its peak man. It was massive

01:35:33 You know, it'll be bigger in the future than it is now even but yeah, it's it's been it's been great

01:35:38 So that's generosity and look for reciprocity

01:35:41 Okay, i'm uh, i'm on i'm totally on board that makes sense

01:35:48 Of course

01:35:52 Teachers never ask you what you want to do in school because their hands are tied with curriculum, right?

01:35:57 And right doesn't sound like your parents did it. I I don't know if you've had a bunch of friends

01:36:01 It's a little tougher in the friend world to do it. Although it can be helpful

01:36:04 but

01:36:06 Yeah

01:36:08 If you can't take pleasure in the pleasure you bring to other people, it's probably not a very sustainable relationship

01:36:14 Right

01:36:19 Okay, okay

01:36:31 And that's certainly one thing I haven't tried I talked about the

01:36:33 You know previous relationships failing on the same grounds

01:36:36 that is this sort of

01:36:39 uh

01:36:41 Just sort of being liberal and not so measured

01:36:44 Yeah, so the general pattern is yeah, the general pattern is you're a young man and and

01:36:50 You know, you're a lusty young man. It's great embrace it. It's wonderful. But what happens is

01:36:56 You're very attracted to the woman the hormones charged like, you know, a whole horde of Genghis Khan's finest stallions

01:37:04 and

01:37:06 You know whether there's

01:37:07 Sexual consummation or not not particularly relevant

01:37:10 But you get four to six months of those bonding hormones

01:37:14 And if the generosity is kind of hedged between the two of you

01:37:25 Then the sexual frisson the the hormones the the

01:37:28 The highs of initial romance fades out

01:37:32 And you just get kind of bored and don't feel that special to each other and things just kind of peter out

01:37:38 Right because you haven't used that enthusiasm to test for generosity

01:37:44 In relationships is really important to test for generosity, but you can't do that by being stingy

01:37:50 Of course

01:37:54 You know, I remember lending some money to another friend of mine

01:37:57 And not only did he pay me back the day he was supposed the day he promised

01:38:01 But he also took me out for a really nice dinner to say thanks

01:38:03 He passed the test yeah, he didn't have to I mean I was happy to lend him the money

01:38:10 But the dinner was a nice touch

01:38:15 You

01:38:17 So I think

01:38:26 generosity with an eye at reciprocity

01:38:28 brings certainty and once you I mean if you are very generous with the woman and

01:38:34 she's then generous and thinks of you in return and you know assuming the other things like values and

01:38:40 And general level of intelligence and conversational ability if that stuff all checks out and i'm sure that it does

01:38:45 Then holy crap. There's a woman you're attracted to she's moral. She's

01:38:49 a good conversationalist

01:38:52 And she reciprocates generosity with generosity. She takes great pleasure in making you happy you take great pleasure in making her happy

01:38:58 There's no upgrade from that

01:39:00 Okay, that's the top like this like trying to climb it's like trying to climb past the peak of mount everest, right

01:39:07 You

01:39:09 Yeah, that makes sense

01:39:13 But it's going to be painful as hell i'll tell you this man

01:39:16 There's a reason why people don't it's pretty obvious what i'm talking about, right?

01:39:19 Yes, and you're a very intelligent young man. So

01:39:23 Since this obvious thing isn't being done and most people don't do it. The question is why well

01:39:31 The reason why my friend is because it's it's agony

01:39:36 When it works

01:39:38 It's horrible

01:39:40 When it works, I know I just said it's the best thing ever totally it totally is right

01:39:45 But it's horrible, do you know why

01:39:49 Well because it's

01:39:53 It reveals what wasn't done at any point prior right everything that was deficient is now clear

01:40:00 And you've got this amazing wonderful win-win relationship

01:40:05 That just keeps getting better and better and i've been married 21 years now. It's better and better

01:40:09 And

01:40:16 Everybody else looks pretty crappy

01:40:22 You know what I mean

01:40:27 Yeah, yeah

01:40:29 And you start looking at all your other relationships and you're like, yeah, ew

01:40:34 Oh not so sure about this one

01:40:36 And and then maybe you start applying the same principles to these other relationships, right

01:40:46 Sure. Yeah, and then seeing if those either become awesome or

01:40:50 Are revealed as the opposite? Yeah, they don't they don't become awesome

01:40:55 Sorry, I spoiler me. I mean

01:40:58 excuse me

01:41:00 I guess sorry. It's a little bit of a cough. I guess it's theoretically possible, but it's so rare that you know

01:41:05 It's like saying I don't need sunglasses because they'll be in eclipse today

01:41:09 It's like yeah, maybe once in a while, but you still need some sunglasses

01:41:12 so, I mean it could happen

01:41:15 but

01:41:17 It's staggeringly rare

01:41:19 What happens is

01:41:22 The people in your life who are kind of selfish

01:41:25 they get a sense that

01:41:27 There's a new sheriff in town called quality

01:41:30 Haha, right and you know, you've seen enough wild westerners to know what happens when the sheriff comes to town

01:41:34 Everybody's trying to shoot desires off, right?

01:41:37 Yeah, yeah

01:41:39 And

01:41:46 Your girlfriend is not going to like to see you get exploited by people and you aren't going to like to see

01:41:51 Your girlfriend get exploited by people, right?

01:41:54 Right

01:41:57 So, yeah, you're gonna have some challenges

01:41:59 And people are gonna trash talk your girlfriend because they don't like the new standard

01:42:06 That's okay

01:42:13 I mean if you can imagine you run some shit falafel stand

01:42:23 That's like, you know

01:42:26 dirty hot dark water and you know, soggy

01:42:28 falafel balls and stuff and then like

01:42:31 the fireworks lit

01:42:34 Shawarma emporium from heaven opens up right across the street and you're probably not that pleased, aren't you?

01:42:39 Right. Yeah

01:42:41 Gotta go do a different channel. Are you gonna be like well, I guess i'll just completely upgrade my whole shawarma thing to compete

01:42:48 Uh most times no

01:42:51 Most times you'll just call the health inspector and tell them that there's rats in the place and hopefully i'll shut them down

01:42:55 Yeah

01:42:57 So that's why people don't do it

01:43:02 Like just it's a this completely obvious thing

01:43:04 Right. Yeah. Yeah, uh, you ask ask your girlfriend what makes her happiest?

01:43:09 and

01:43:11 Try to provide it

01:43:13 And and see how she reacts

01:43:15 Because if she doesn't react well, then you know, that's kind of painful. Maybe you got a breakup on your hands or whatever, right?

01:43:21 Because it's the kind of thing like you can kind of talk about it, but you can't talk about it too much

01:43:26 Right, so like I can talk about that with you, right but but if you say to your girlfriend

01:43:32 Well, i'm going to try this radical new thing of giving you what you want

01:43:35 Right, like you kind of have to do it and see if it sparks a response because it has to be kind of organic

01:43:40 Because if you say well i'm going to be generous to you and if you're not generous back with me

01:43:45 I'm going to break up with you

01:43:47 You don't know if it's organic, right? I've got to figure out the scale

01:43:51 Well, yeah, you got your finger on the scale quite a bit and and you won't trust that she's doing it organically, right?

01:43:56 right

01:43:58 That's a good point

01:44:01 Like my my when my wife was my girlfriend she never said i'm doing these favors for you

01:44:05 But you better reciprocate there was nothing like that, right?

01:44:08 Yeah, I was just like

01:44:10 Wow, she's really nice

01:44:12 You know

01:44:14 My heart grew three thighs that day, you know

01:44:17 It hurt, uh, you know and not in the phizer way but like in a positive

01:44:21 And so

01:44:25 You can't put your finger on the scale

01:44:29 But you need to see if if it sparks that kind of reciprocity

01:44:35 I mean if she asks you directly you can't lie, right? You don't want to lie to her

01:44:41 Of course, you don't want to say i'm now putting you through the experiment called niceness

01:44:47 Right

01:44:48 Yeah, change the parameters up a little here and mix things up a little here

01:44:51 I'm gonna be really generous and thoughtful and right see what happens

01:44:53 And of course, I mean the worst kind of women and i'm not putting your girlfriend in this category at all, right

01:45:01 but the worst kind of women

01:45:03 If you're really nice to them and you provide for them what they want and they're really thoughtful they'll be like

01:45:07 Wow, i've got him wrapped around my finger. I can do whatever the hell I want now

01:45:11 Yeah, yeah, that's a male fear as well, right?

01:45:16 Mm-hmm

01:45:18 Uh, but again, I I would you know, I would be completely shocked if she was in that category because that's that's really bad, right?

01:45:27 Oh, he's totally simping. I can do whatever I want

01:45:30 She's not no i've I get that but but yeah that that's that's also

01:45:35 but you want to figure that out sooner rather than later, this is just for the men listening as a whole, but

01:45:39 Yeah, you know generosity with a view to reciprocity is the key man. That's that's what

01:45:45 Gets you out of the bad place and into the good place

01:45:47 And you know like if if it doesn't work out right and and you know if she does

01:45:54 Consume or absorb this kind of stuff like like a black hole, right?

01:45:58 The more you pour it the bigger and stronger it gets and more what more it pulls in and destroys again

01:46:03 I'm not putting it in that category. But if if it doesn't reciprocate

01:46:05 for whatever reason

01:46:08 then

01:46:09 You know, I mean if you if you did break up with her and she says well, why right?

01:46:13 I mean, I think it's okay to say then because you don't have your finger on the scale anymore

01:46:16 right say look, you know, I mean I

01:46:19 I really really worked to to make you happy

01:46:22 and you know, I worked at it for a month or two or whatever and it just never came back and uh,

01:46:28 You know wish you the best, you know, I really wish it had but uh, that's not where you're at in life

01:46:32 You're not a terrible, you're not a bad person or anything like that

01:46:34 But it didn't

01:46:36 You know remember I did this and I did this and I did this and I was really sort of racking my brain to make

01:46:39 You happy and I really enjoyed it

01:46:42 but you know

01:46:43 We got to have that in common, right?

01:46:45 If the only thing we have in common is you like to make it's making you happy

01:46:48 You know that kind of leaves me a little bit out in the cold, right?

01:46:51 Right. Yeah, I want to make you happy. I agree. I want you to make you happy as well. It's like no no

01:46:56 It's not very sustainable

01:46:59 so

01:47:01 Yeah, so

01:47:02 Then you know if there's a breakup scenario you can say well this and say oh no, no

01:47:05 I want to do it now and it's like no like sorry the

01:47:08 The kind of emotional moment has passed for me and I wouldn't want you to do it out of a sense of well

01:47:12 Otherwise he's going to break up with me because that's not really sustainable

01:47:15 Like either you take pleasure in making your partner happy or you don't right?

01:47:18 Right, but I think that would be

01:47:21 The certainty but again, you know, it's tough for your other relationships. How how you get along with your parents these days?

01:47:27 Not well, in fact, uh

01:47:31 Relatively extremely recently I called my dad and I was honest for with him for um, arguably the first time

01:47:39 Uh, maybe three weeks ago. So you uh, you said you honest with him

01:47:42 Yes. Yes. How did that go?

01:47:45 It went uh, it didn't go well I said

01:47:49 I just kind of had three points. I said I just sort of acknowledged that our relationship was bad because it had been

01:47:55 A little bit adversarial contentious or I mean really since I became a man

01:48:03 Um point two my childhood sucked. I wanted to be honest about that and then three what oh your childhood sucked. Yeah

01:48:09 Sorry, yes. Yeah

01:48:10 And point three that we disagreed on many foundational questions with respect to you know, god politics war parenting

01:48:17 Sort of judgment in our social lives

01:48:20 He responded with significant

01:48:22 passive aggression

01:48:24 and um

01:48:25 Some like yeah, yeah a significant passive aggression

01:48:28 and excuses

01:48:31 I'm, sorry, but I really am

01:48:33 It's you know, it's it's it's just so heartbreaking when you try to have those frank discussions and

01:48:38 Like I can kind of understand that parents might get a little shocked and act badly in the moment

01:48:44 But you know, wouldn't they call back?

01:48:46 An hour or two later saying, you know, man

01:48:48 This has really bothered me and this is really eating away at me and let's try this again

01:48:51 And i'm sorry that I you know that kind of stuff

01:48:53 Yeah, i've been waiting

01:48:56 Yeah, it's it's within a day or two or it doesn't happen

01:48:59 I've never seen a break to that to that rule

01:49:03 Hmm, so i'm real sorry about that and

01:49:05 Did your mom know that this call was coming or?

01:49:08 No, she didn't I tried to because she's very

01:49:12 feminine and like the um

01:49:15 the sort of

01:49:17 Inoffensive and and submissive wife kind of way. I I didn't I sort of went right past her to dead. All right

01:49:23 And with your mom

01:49:26 How's my relationship with her, um the same it's it's very um

01:49:32 Just very distant. I mean they they they would like to call and and talk with me about

01:49:36 The weather and how was school and how's work and all that? What are my?

01:49:42 What are my sort of

01:49:46 Financial plan just all the all this stuff that that I don't care about, you know, I'm interested in uh,

01:49:51 You know, I care about it as far as my life and I appreciate that. They're not they don't drag me into their um,

01:49:56 You know hamburger helper dinner so to speak

01:50:01 but uh

01:50:02 But it's not it's not the stuff I love it's not

01:50:05 philosophy and history and the future of the u.s dollar and

01:50:09 And uh, or even what's going on with your girlfriend that they could might help with right? Sure

01:50:14 Yeah, and and what love is nothing like that, right? Because because of course we can't talk about any of those things without

01:50:20 Conflict

01:50:24 Well disagreement doesn't mean conflict, right

01:50:28 Um, I mean maybe in your family not not ontologically. It doesn't correct, right? Yeah. Yeah

01:50:33 I mean disagreement can be fantastic disagreement can be the sparks of like new thought right?

01:50:39 Absolutely. Yeah, and and in mutual respect

01:50:43 Yeah, but it it really sucks when disagreement just means you're a bad person

01:50:47 You know like the how dare you stuff like everybody's greta thunberg when it comes to their own

01:50:55 Transitions, right?

01:50:57 Right, right. It was that was disappointing

01:50:59 Yeah, yeah, a good person would never raise these questions a good person would never think that it's like, okay

01:51:05 Okay cult member like thanks, but not that not that interested

01:51:09 Uh, i'm, sorry about that and your siblings

01:51:12 Um

01:51:15 one of them he wasn't so

01:51:17 uh subordinated and intimidated as I was growing up and he really distanced himself from the family starting at like

01:51:25 Six years old so I haven't heard from him and

01:51:27 Going on a year probably he distanced himself at what age

01:51:33 Well, you know just sort of emotionally not not wanting to be involved not wanting to talk with his brothers or parents

01:51:39 But since you said

01:51:42 Sure at six. Well, so there's no i'm not i'm not i'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just like that's that's

01:51:47 Was not would not have been the age. I guessed I guess

01:51:51 The signs yes the signs of of the uh, the path he would go down were were starting to be evident as early as five

01:51:57 Yes, well, well because yeah

01:51:59 That's wild

01:52:02 It's almost like genetic or something

01:52:04 All right, and the other

01:52:09 And then little brother it's it's much much closer and that's the only person I had in mind when I said, uh

01:52:13 maybe this this generosity thing will

01:52:18 Will reveal a really good sushi place or whatever it was

01:52:21 Right, right, right. We we are we're a bit closer in age

01:52:26 and

01:52:28 And and quite similar and we've got the same genes and very similar upbringing

01:52:31 Definitely some some differences of note, but

01:52:35 No, it's good. The difference is good

01:52:37 It's much better and I hold out hope that it'll it'll be it'll only get better from here because we came where we came from

01:52:43 it was it really sucked and I

01:52:46 at around 10 years old 10 to 12 years old I was

01:52:48 I I really

01:52:51 Used my brain to uh to punish him as much as I could hurt his feelings really as much as I could

01:52:56 And why

01:53:01 Why I think it I think it was a simple

01:53:03 Power it's just I I like the feeling of

01:53:09 of dominating me kind of like you said, uh

01:53:12 You know dad beats the wife mom beats the kid the kid kicks the cat

01:53:14 You feel helpless, but you can exercise power over him. Yeah, and I did and I didn't apologize for it till I was about 20

01:53:21 Well, I I did they better late than never for sure in that in that context better late than never and good for you good for you

01:53:30 I was just thinking about I took a woman on vacation

01:53:40 To a pretty nice place with a buffet

01:53:45 And

01:53:49 I

01:53:54 She was sitting closer to the buffet I asked her to grab me a piece of mini cheesecake

01:54:00 And what did she say it's too far well, you know, aren't you getting up again?

01:54:10 Oh my gosh

01:54:12 That was a beautiful thing, yeah, definitely talk about a guilt-free exit scenario

01:54:20 Hopefully before the bill came

01:54:25 Well, i'd already paid for the whole vacation. So yeah. Yeah. No, it was uh

01:54:29 Okay, so i'm gonna pay for the vacation, but you can't get me a piece of cheesecake

01:54:37 Anyway, yeah, so I mean that that's the kind of you know, look for reciprocity generosity

01:54:41 look for reciprocity

01:54:44 Thank you very much. That is uh

01:54:46 you know, you know, I knew you'd do it I knew you'd like you'd arc some wire somehow even though i've listened to a

01:54:51 Six million shows. No, but look i'm telling you there the reason I keep doing them is i'm not doing the same old same old, right?

01:54:58 Yeah, I mean this isn't something i've talked about in this kind of way before so I hopefully it's helpful to others

01:55:03 it sounds like it's helpful for you and

01:55:05 I think that's that's the way to go forward. So let me just you know, look first of all

01:55:09 I'm, really really sorry that you grew up functionally without a dad. I'm really sorry

01:55:12 that you were beaten of course, right and i'm sorry that

01:55:16 Nobody noticed that you were beating your head against the wall. That's well, of course they noticed but didn't act that's appalling

01:55:22 I'm sorry that your mom didn't fight more to get what you needed as a child including a father who's around

01:55:29 and

01:55:31 I'm, sorry that your parents won't listen to your differences of opinion

01:55:34 You know like it's funny because people know that when you grow into a whole new human being that human being isn't going to be

01:55:40 A copy paste of you, right? They know that

01:55:43 Everybody knows that

01:55:46 Kids have thoughts of their own

01:55:48 Yes

01:55:49 And and yet people are then appalled when kids have thoughts of their own

01:55:52 Yeah, that should be like

01:55:55 I mean you could I guess you could program an ai to be just like you

01:55:58 So then just program an ai but why have a whole child?

01:56:03 and then

01:56:05 You know, and of course what do parents always say? I want you to think for yourself

01:56:08 Yeah, no, well all the other kids were doing it. I don't care what all the other kids were doing it

01:56:12 You think for yourself?

01:56:14 Not those thoughts

01:56:15 Sorry, yeah. No. Oh, yeah, except except for any of those thoughts that disagree with me in any way

01:56:19 It's like what so now you're the new kids. I have to follow that. I wasn't supposed to follow the old kids

01:56:23 It doesn't make any sense

01:56:25 Thank you. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's

01:56:27 I'm, sorry

01:56:29 Think for yourself except about the important matters

01:56:32 Yeah, or any important matters that disagree with me?

01:56:34 Uh, so yeah, it's really it's really terrible

01:56:37 Because then you realize that they don't

01:56:40 They don't like you

01:56:42 They only like the parts of you that blindly agree with them

01:56:46 Which is the conformity which is not you?

01:56:49 I like the opposite of you is something that most people rot their whole lives

01:56:55 Never processing and never reconciling

01:57:00 I love the opposite of you

01:57:02 In other words your conformity and your fear not your originality and your reasoning

01:57:08 And

01:57:11 You know

01:57:12 Everyone

01:57:13 Who I love can make a case

01:57:15 That I love even if it's the complete opposite of what I think

01:57:18 Because I want them to think for themselves and whether they're right or wrong

01:57:22 I want them to be themselves because I want to love who they are

01:57:25 not

01:57:28 What they fear or me or something like that, right?

01:57:31 Right to say I love the opposite of who you are because you know fear and conformity is the opposite of us to say

01:57:36 I only love and care about the things that are opposite of who you are

01:57:40 Is completely mind-bending

01:57:43 I don't know. I don't know how people live like that. I have no idea how people like it's awful to me

01:57:48 You're just completely alone your whole life because the only thing you like is a mirror

01:57:55 And then you call yourself caring it's like and and if the mirror is not reflecting

01:57:59 you in the way that you want you just

01:58:01 smash the mirror and get a new one and smash the mirror until you get a new one and

01:58:04 right

01:58:07 Oh, it's crazy, it's crazy i'm really sorry about all of that. I'm

01:58:10 And you know, i'm glad that you're getting educated and doing well and i'm glad that you're dating and you know, I mean

01:58:16 I'm sure that there's great potential but this relationship and the way to ignite it is

01:58:23 That kindness and reciprocity stuff. So does that help uh as far as maybe next steps?

01:58:28 Uh, it absolutely helped. I don't know if I don't know if it ultimately solves a problem, but that is something obviously

01:58:33 All right, I guarantee you that

01:58:37 well, i'm gonna i'm gonna execute and uh,

01:58:39 Maybe i'll send you another email and oh no, not maybe I hope you will I hope you will I I will get the update

01:58:45 You can you can send it on skype. You can email me

01:58:48 But um, yeah, I I hope to hear how it's going and if there's anything I can do for you at any time

01:58:53 Just let me know

01:58:54 Thank you so much. All right. Have a great night brother. Thanks for the call. Have a good night. Bye

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