Martyn, Phil and James talk about Wales chances as Scotland vie for the Triple Crown.
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00:00 [MUSIC]
00:06 Hello and welcome to National World Kick and Chase podcast.
00:09 It's a show where we break down the latest round of results from the 2024
00:13 Guinness Six Nations and look ahead to the upcoming fixtures.
00:17 I'm your host Martin Simpson, joined once again by Phil Bramley and James Copley.
00:22 So let's start off, Wales v Ireland.
00:26 James, do you think the eventual scoreline, 31-7,
00:30 do you think that was a fair reflection of the balance of the match?
00:34 That is a good question.
00:37 I think, you know, Wales did pressure Ireland in phases without really looking like breaking through.
00:46 I thought Ireland's defence was really good.
00:47 I think it's telling really that the points that Wales got were by penalty try.
00:51 They couldn't quite get over the line.
00:52 Ireland looked strong in defence.
00:55 It was another one of those, we've talked about Wales on this podcast quite a lot,
00:59 but it was sort of plucky in defeat.
01:01 You're always going to expect that against Ireland.
01:03 I heard Sam Warburton make the point that, you know,
01:07 he played in some very good Wales teams and he only went to Dublin
01:10 and won once in his entire career.
01:13 So that just puts it in a perspective how hard that is to do.
01:15 Never mind when you're a team sort of in the middle of a changing of the guard
01:20 and bringing through sort of young players,
01:23 and then you're coming up against probably the best team in the world.
01:25 So I thought it was just sort of, you know, business as usual for Ireland.
01:29 I did think the refereeing sort of decisions were interesting in a sense that
01:33 Ireland seemed to get on the wrong side of the referee for a change,
01:35 which we haven't seen for a little while.
01:37 But it just shows how good they are that they had, you know,
01:41 they were down a man twice separately in that second half
01:44 and Wales could sort of put them to the sword.
01:46 They're just very, very good.
01:47 And I'm actually really excited to see what Andy Farrell does.
01:51 Yeah, Phil, I mean, Wales were in the match for most of it
01:56 in the sense that it was a scoreline that you could use.
01:59 They still had enough time to claw back.
02:01 But in terms of just watching it, I think you could see that
02:04 Ireland weren't ever really going to be clawed back
02:08 barring some kind of incredible collapse.
02:11 It was said this last week, but I think it's worth reiterating.
02:14 This Ireland team are just a level above everyone else
02:17 in the Six Nations at the moment, aren't they?
02:20 100%. And I've said, even with the cards,
02:22 you never really felt they're out of third gear.
02:24 You look like if they really had to, they could accelerate it.
02:27 And I thought it was just so telling that, you know,
02:29 Tyburn gets yellow carded.
02:30 First thing he does, he comes back on the pitch,
02:32 wins a turnover and off you go again, lads.
02:34 They're just absolutely phenomenal.
02:36 I know we said this, like, two weeks ago,
02:38 that we might as well give them the grand slam now,
02:40 but I really can't see anybody stopping them.
02:42 And again, as we said, the conveyor belt of talent
02:45 they've got and the way that, you know,
02:47 Sexton comes out and other players just step up,
02:49 you can see this Irish team is a bit of a dinging
02:53 and going on and on and on because they look phenomenal.
02:55 You can't really see any area of weakness.
02:57 Even when they lost players, they still kept going.
03:01 I thought, you know, Wales, to their point,
03:04 they had some bright spots.
03:05 I thought, "Will it look brilliant at fullback?"
03:07 I thought, you know, he looks definitely one for the future.
03:09 And this young team are learning all the time.
03:11 But yeah, really tough day at the office for them, to be honest.
03:14 I think the "will it" thing you mentioned, Phil,
03:16 is a really, really good and pertinent point
03:18 because, again, I can remember saying on this podcast,
03:21 I think after the World Cup,
03:22 where's the next Wales fullback going to come from?
03:25 Beyond Lee Halfpenny and Liam Williams.
03:27 And he stepped up to the plate really, really well.
03:30 And I think a couple of young Wales players
03:32 have stepped up to the plate,
03:33 but they need more and they need a bit more experience.
03:35 And it's sort of a Six Nations which you've got to write off
03:38 from a Wales point of view a little bit, I think.
03:40 As a Wales fan, James,
03:44 how are you feeling about the next match
03:46 in two weeks' time against France?
03:48 Obviously, it'll be played in Cardiff,
03:50 which will be a huge advantage for the Welsh, as it always is.
03:54 Do you think you've seen enough from both Wales
03:56 and enough of how much France have regressed this tournament
04:01 to think that Wales probably have a decent shot
04:03 of getting a positive result there?
04:05 I actually do.
04:07 I think you need to concentrate on that Italy game.
04:09 You need to get a win there
04:11 because Italy have proven that they have improved
04:13 over these last couple of Six Nations,
04:15 have history of beating Wales recently,
04:17 which sort of started this mini Italian revival.
04:20 I know Italy haven't won many games,
04:21 or if any games since that,
04:23 off the top of my head in the Six Nations,
04:25 but they are starting to piece
04:27 some sort of results and performances together,
04:30 obviously culminating in the France draw at the weekend.
04:33 It's, yeah, target that game, win that,
04:35 then you're sort of out of the wooden spoon race,
04:37 you would think, and then you get some confidence
04:39 you can build on in the France game.
04:41 And they don't look right, do they?
04:42 Let's face it, without Depont,
04:44 the mentality is not there.
04:45 They're still smart enough for the World Cup.
04:47 I think I actually underestimated actually
04:50 how much that World Cup meant to France
04:53 and the nation and the players.
04:55 You know, a home World Cup is always important,
04:56 but they really did think they were going to win it, didn't they?
04:59 And they just sort of haven't.
05:00 It's sort of reminiscent of,
05:02 although England never played at a World Cup,
05:03 it's almost, at home,
05:05 it's almost reminiscent of the old English teams
05:07 where they just couldn't rid the scars
05:09 of the previous sort of failures
05:12 in the realm of football.
05:13 So, yeah, it's a great opportunity actually
05:16 for Wales to finish the tournament strongly
05:18 because to me, France, they do not look the same.
05:21 And I think we'll come onto it again,
05:22 but Scotland were robbed against them.
05:24 Yeah, well, I was actually going to say,
05:27 let's not beat around the bush.
05:29 France are two last-minute referee indecisions
05:33 in two games, and that's the only reason
05:36 that they're not bottom of the Six Nations table
05:38 because realistically, I'm thinking that
05:40 that last kick for Italy
05:41 should have been retaken in that match.
05:43 Yeah.
05:45 Which is even...
05:47 Even if it hadn't, sorry, James,
05:49 even if they hadn't come out with the charge,
05:51 it's just a brutal bit of luck, isn't it?
05:53 The ball falls off the cone,
05:55 and that's, you've got to believe...
05:57 That's not what the shot clock was marked in for, was it?
05:59 It was brought in to speed up the game.
06:00 It wasn't delaying the game
06:02 and winding the clock down.
06:03 And the weird thing was the roof was closed.
06:04 I'm not sure whether, you know,
06:05 there's some French fans blowing really hard
06:07 to knock it off the tee, but it's bizarre.
06:09 It's incredible that...
06:11 You're making that statement, Martin,
06:13 that France were two refereeing decisions
06:15 away from being bottom of the Six Nations table,
06:17 even without Dupont,
06:19 given the level they were at coming into the World Cup.
06:21 It is an incredible drop-off.
06:23 Yeah, we said in the first video,
06:26 or I said, I think we all agreed,
06:28 nobody thought, even without Dupont,
06:30 that France were going to somehow regress this much.
06:33 We weren't saying that they were suddenly
06:35 going to be wooden spoon contenders,
06:37 but like we say,
06:39 they obviously got,
06:42 let's, you know, there's no point in beating around the bush,
06:44 an incorrect refereeing decision
06:46 gifted them the match against Scotland
06:48 and a dubious refereeing call.
06:51 Yeah.
06:52 Maybe Italy don't make that kick in the end.
06:55 There are no guarantees there.
06:56 Scotland obviously scored the try that wasn't awarded.
06:59 Italy, does he make the kick if the charge doesn't come?
07:04 Will the ball still, whatever caused that ball
07:07 to come off the, maybe it was, who knows,
07:10 maybe it was the vibration of the players' boots
07:12 running up towards the tee end.
07:14 No one knows.
07:14 It wasn't that, obviously, but yeah,
07:18 and that's where they are.
07:19 And it's just really hard to believe.
07:21 I don't know what you think, Phil, but I just,
07:24 how have they gone from where they were two years ago
07:28 to where they are now with essentially
07:30 the same group of players,
07:31 albeit in this tournament,
07:33 minus the best player in the world?
07:36 And probably their starting choice number 10 as well.
07:40 It really, their problems extend far beyond that.
07:45 100%.
07:46 I mean, it's just nuts.
07:47 I mean, look at even the starting team.
07:48 Yes, yeah, they haven't got Deport and they're missing
07:50 Antomac and those two are great players.
07:52 Jalibe went off, but even so, I mean,
07:55 Jonathan Dante or John Dante, as Sean Edwards calls him,
07:58 it always makes me laugh with his Wigan accent,
08:00 make him sound like he came from somewhere up northwest.
08:03 Yeah, at one point, maybe 18 months ago,
08:05 he was in contention for being World Player of the Year.
08:08 He was phenomenal.
08:09 He was like the center point of French defense.
08:11 And then there he is running up,
08:12 just smashing people, running upright.
08:15 Fans do seem now to have this kind of discipline issue.
08:17 You know, Paul Valencia nearly ended up
08:19 being red carded twice, you know, two weeks ago.
08:21 So you could argue that's three red cards
08:22 evicted in two matches.
08:24 It just seems to be falling apart.
08:26 And I thought Italy were absolutely heroic
08:29 in their defense, you know,
08:30 some of that kind of game line and goal line defense,
08:33 they were throwing bodies in left, right, and center,
08:35 but also really good technique.
08:37 And even then, they've got some huge men
08:39 in that French pack, they just couldn't break them down.
08:42 And you don't really know where they go from here
08:44 because they don't look particularly cohesive in attack,
08:47 that they didn't seem to understand
08:48 where they were supposed to be.
08:49 They basically seem to say, well, we've got some big lads,
08:51 so here you go, lads, take off your shirt
08:53 and go smash somebody.
08:54 And it just didn't work.
08:55 So yeah, there are troubling times ahead for France
08:58 and the games they've got left to play
09:00 are gonna be really important for them.
09:01 'Cause like you say, if they lose those as well,
09:03 they're gonna be in a world of pain.
09:05 - Yeah, because probably the only players
09:08 that you're giving pass marks to on this,
09:10 or sorry, the players that are part of that kind of
09:13 core group of what France have been over the past two years,
09:16 obviously some of the new players coming in
09:18 have done all right,
09:19 but in terms of the players that were there before,
09:22 the only ones that you would say haven't really dropped off
09:25 are probably Unai Antonio and Gelfiku,
09:29 who are still probably performant
09:31 about the standards you would expect,
09:33 but that's a tight head prop in an outside center.
09:36 You can't, the back row, that formidable back row
09:41 is just nothing like the fearsome obstacle
09:44 it was two years ago.
09:47 Like you say, Jonathan Donte,
09:48 probably the best 12 in world rugby two years ago.
09:52 Where's he gone?
09:54 He's just fallen off a cliff, his form.
09:56 Thomas Ramos isn't having nearly the same effect
09:59 he has on games from fullback.
10:01 Even, I could go on and on,
10:06 but a word on Italy, I suppose.
10:09 I will always talk about this kind of heroic
10:11 and defeat thing.
10:13 I mean, I don't know, James, like,
10:15 how are you feeling, obviously, as a Welsh fan
10:17 and as looking at it,
10:18 that it's you and Italy for the wooden spoon,
10:20 although I would argue France could still be in contention.
10:23 It's you and Italy for the wooden spoon.
10:27 But what do you think of Italy at the moment?
10:28 Do you consider them better than the past year,
10:31 the year before, worse, much the same?
10:35 It's actually really tough to say.
10:37 I think, as I mentioned earlier,
10:39 that Wales win a couple of years ago in Wales,
10:43 that was a huge moment.
10:44 And you did hope that they would maybe push on
10:46 a little bit from there.
10:46 It hasn't happened.
10:48 But they have been more competitive for the most part.
10:52 But then again, sometimes they will come up against a France
10:54 when they're in form or an Ireland in form
10:56 and they will get absolutely hammered.
10:57 So I think this result in isolation
10:59 is a step forward for Italy.
11:01 How often they can produce it, I don't know.
11:03 I did see that, who was it, Phil,
11:05 you might know that they're under 20s.
11:07 Did they, were they under 20s beat France?
11:09 Yes, they did, yes.
11:10 So that is massive.
11:12 And I've noticed they're under 20s doing well quite often.
11:15 So hopefully they can bring through
11:17 the next generation,
11:18 although the current generation is not half bad.
11:20 But rugby union's funny, isn't it?
11:22 And sports funny.
11:23 You need to win games.
11:24 You look at Scotland,
11:25 they're starting to develop
11:27 a little bit of a mentality now.
11:28 And losing all of the time must be hard.
11:30 So I think you got to take any sort of scrap you can get.
11:32 Weirdly enough though,
11:33 in drawing the game feels like a win for Italy,
11:35 but they didn't return,
11:36 they didn't come away with the trophy that's on the line
11:40 with the French Italy games.
11:42 Sort of an interesting win-loss
11:44 sort of draw scenario going on there.
11:46 We're going to take a short break now,
11:49 but we'll be right back.
11:50 (upbeat music)
11:52 - Welcome back to National World's Kick and Chase podcast.
12:08 Let's talk about the Calcutta Cup, Phil.
12:11 Probably for a neutral,
12:15 not the best game of rugby.
12:17 A lot of errors,
12:18 quite a few penalties either side.
12:21 A game that was, let's face it,
12:23 decided by one six foot four South African runner.
12:27 - Yeah, absolutely.
12:29 They shouldn't call it the Calcutta Cup now,
12:31 it's the Van der Merwe show.
12:32 It was, I mean, it was fantastic to be fair.
12:35 It looked absolutely world-class.
12:36 Best player on the pitch by a mile,
12:39 although obviously made to look good by,
12:41 you know, Finn Russell and the rest of the team,
12:42 putting him into position.
12:44 I mean, yeah, it's weird
12:45 'cause he started off so brilliantly as an England fan.
12:46 In that first 10 minutes thinking,
12:48 "This is it, they've turned the corner.
12:49 This much fabled Steve Borthwick,
12:51 just give us a bit more time,"
12:52 has happened and then nothing.
12:56 It just kind of basically stopped.
12:58 Very strange.
12:59 I don't quite understand how England
13:01 kind of capitulated quite so catastrophically
13:04 from that kind of, having that really good start.
13:06 It seemed that they've worked,
13:08 it almost felt like they worked so hard
13:10 on that blitz defense
13:11 where basically you're trying to shut teams down
13:13 so they don't get to the second and third phase.
13:15 That maybe they practiced that so much against themselves
13:17 that they forgot that you have to keep going
13:19 after the third and fourth phase
13:20 because it seemed like they were brilliant
13:22 off a first phase move off that scrum for the try.
13:24 But after that, they just had no shape, no cohesion.
13:28 If the ball went more than kind of two or three phases out,
13:30 they were just basically giving one man out
13:33 just to run it against two or three players.
13:34 And that's why Scotland's kind of list
13:36 of dominant tackles was so much higher
13:38 because, you know, England were just stupid.
13:40 I mean, even out under 16s, you know,
13:41 we talk about, you know, having a pod system
13:44 and having a guy at the side that you can tip to
13:46 or somebody back out the back
13:47 so you can have that tip on option.
13:49 England had nothing.
13:49 It was so telegraphed what they were going to do.
13:52 And then on top of that,
13:53 you put on those handling errors, you know, 20,
13:54 was it 25 handling errors I think that England came up with
13:56 and coughed up the ball 22 times.
13:58 I mean, you cannot expect to win any game at that,
14:01 nevermind top level international.
14:02 And I thought Scotland would deserve the winners
14:04 and didn't really, again, a bit like Ireland,
14:08 didn't really look like they got out of third gear.
14:09 They didn't need to because England
14:11 just gifted them the ball so much.
14:13 - Just continuing on England for a second, Phil,
14:15 there was an odd question that struck me
14:19 in the post-match coverage.
14:20 Steve Borfork was asked by the BBC at the time
14:23 that England weren't quite getting results
14:28 or something to that extent.
14:29 And I thought, well, England are getting results.
14:31 It's just the performances aren't,
14:33 the performance against Italy wasn't convincing.
14:36 The performance against Wales was slightly more convincing,
14:39 but still not quite all there.
14:40 And then the performance, but they got the result.
14:42 They got results right through admittedly favorable
14:46 half of the World Cup draw.
14:48 But it's just, it feels like an entire Steve Borfork era,
14:51 the sort of performances of England,
14:53 just that there's never been one game
14:56 where you've probably sat back and went, that was it.
14:58 That was the all round kind of,
15:01 probably their best performance, I would argue,
15:03 under Steve Borfork was the win against Argentina,
15:06 where they lost a man early on to the red cards.
15:09 I would say that's probably the best performance he's had.
15:11 And, but apart from that, I'm struggling to look back
15:14 at any game in his year as England head coach,
15:16 where I've really thought, wow,
15:17 England are really looking like contenders again.
15:21 - Yeah, I think to be fair to Borfork,
15:23 we have to cut him some slack
15:24 because he came in so late for the World Cup.
15:26 I think there was an understanding
15:27 that basically that was gonna be some sort of scratch campaign.
15:30 And you could argue that semi-final against South Africa,
15:32 tactically, he played that brilliantly.
15:34 And they were basically a prop short
15:36 of causing a massive upset.
15:37 I think that that was a performance
15:39 that could hang the hat on.
15:40 I think once they got out of that World Cup cycle,
15:42 those excuses and his idea that it's a young team,
15:45 isn't really, I don't think it is a young team.
15:47 They've bloodied in some new players
15:48 and I thought some of those players really stood up,
15:50 but there's still that kind of that spine of,
15:52 you look at that halfback,
15:53 you start with Danny Kerr and George Ford,
15:55 who've got 100 and odd caps between,
15:57 well, Kerr's 100 caps on his own.
15:59 So, it's not like it's a completely green team like Wales.
16:03 And there's a question about whether Borfork now
16:05 kind of bites the bullet and says,
16:07 well, let's do a Gatland and say,
16:10 we need to jettison these players,
16:11 they're not going to be here,
16:12 let's start again from scratch.
16:13 And again, there are, I thought,
16:14 Feyerabove looked great when he came on.
16:16 So, it's always slightly hard to say
16:18 when you're kind of bringing those players on late,
16:20 whether that's because they're up against a tiring team
16:21 and they look better.
16:22 But I thought George Martin looked absolutely monstrous
16:25 when he came in.
16:26 He gave them a bit of gain line
16:27 that they didn't seem to have before then.
16:29 But yeah, I tend to agree with you.
16:31 There were glimpses, there were moments when you see,
16:34 like I said, that first 10 minutes,
16:35 well, England had possession, they had territory,
16:37 but their Achilles heel, time after time after time,
16:40 is red zone efficiency.
16:41 They get in that 22 so many times
16:43 and then they just don't get over the line.
16:46 - I honestly would, I've got to say,
16:49 you mentioned Emmanuel Fee, we're both so there.
16:52 I was very impressed by him at the weekend.
16:54 It just looked like, you know,
16:57 it looked like Anthony Watson reborn,
16:59 just that explosive pace and just his,
17:03 the way he saw that gap and the way he identified the space.
17:07 You're thinking the fact they've got a real,
17:09 a real, because not every, wingers are able,
17:13 are obviously, you know, a good winger is a good winger,
17:15 but ones that can really influence the game
17:18 are few and far between.
17:19 And he looks like he could be that.
17:20 And then also Chandler Cunningham-South,
17:22 another player I've been moderate to fairly impressed with,
17:26 of his performances, because, you know,
17:30 there's one obvious player that we maybe need to speak about
17:33 in England's second row,
17:35 who's looking, starting to look a bit of a shadow
17:38 of his former self.
17:39 Obviously I'm speaking about Mauro Toggi.
17:42 Is a Toggi undroppable for you, Phil?
17:45 Because he's not having nearly as much impact on games
17:49 as he used to.
17:50 It's almost as if other teams are starting,
17:51 have kind of really sussed him out.
17:53 - Well, I mean, it just, it just posed a headache
17:57 and you could argue that, you know,
17:58 you could start a Chessman and a George Martin second row
18:02 and that would certainly put some heft into the scrum
18:04 and give him a bit more ball carry.
18:06 And then it also gives you a bit more options
18:07 in the back row to pick, you know,
18:09 a slightly lighter back row,
18:10 maybe go with a Ben Curry and a Sam Underhill to say,
18:13 "Okay, go jackal your hearts out, boys."
18:15 So I think there is an option there
18:17 and maybe he does need it.
18:18 I mean, maybe that's, maybe that would give him,
18:20 you know, that kind of kick up the backside.
18:22 He has always been the chosen one since day one.
18:24 And, you know, his career is ridiculous.
18:26 I mean, look at when he started his professional career.
18:28 He didn't lose a game, nevermind, you know,
18:31 and that was both international and club
18:33 and champions' cup game for about eight months.
18:35 And I don't think he has been hitting those heights.
18:37 I don't think it's entirely his fault.
18:39 I think England have a system error for me, which is,
18:43 you know, there are lots of drop balls.
18:44 You can't blame Borthwick for guys, you know,
18:47 just not being able to catch a ball
18:49 or if you're, you know, Olly Lawrence,
18:50 throwing the ball into touch.
18:51 I'm pretty certain that they don't coach that.
18:53 But there are some attack systems
18:56 that aren't working and for whatever reason,
18:59 whether they, I mean, Eto'oji himself said
19:01 that they were going to have a very honest debrief
19:03 and that the team had gone off script.
19:05 Whether that is an issue that they can resolve,
19:07 I don't know, but it would be interesting
19:09 to see what happens from here on in.
19:11 - Yeah, well, talking about Scotland,
19:14 for me, the game's decided by two players,
19:16 Finn Russell and Doohan van der Marwe.
19:18 Apart from, if it wasn't for that,
19:19 I think England probably would have won
19:21 a fairly tight contest.
19:23 Absolutely sensational from van der Marwe.
19:26 Three excellent tries.
19:29 So I don't know why I'm struggling to say his name.
19:30 It's so traditionally Scottish after all.
19:32 (laughing)
19:34 Finn Russell being Finn Russell,
19:36 doing Finn Russell things.
19:38 Again, not getting enough credit for his goal kicking.
19:41 I believe he's 100% accurate off the tee
19:43 for this tournament so far.
19:45 Run out of superlatives for those two.
19:47 In terms of the rest of the squad,
19:51 Hugh Jones had a very positive impact on the game.
19:53 Claire Kinghorn putting a good performance on his return.
19:56 For me, I don't know if he's gonna make
20:00 such a key change mid-tournament.
20:02 I think Ewan Ashman's done enough
20:04 to overtake George Turner's starting hooker.
20:07 I would expect him to start against Italy,
20:10 and if he performs well against Italy,
20:12 I would expect him to retain that starting jersey
20:15 against Ireland, whether he does or he doesn't
20:19 remains to be seen. Townsend's mind is his own,
20:21 but for me, I'd like him in there.
20:23 I think Scotland, it was good that they were able
20:28 to win the match reasonably comfortably
20:32 without the bulk of their squad being at their very best.
20:37 And for me, that's probably a pleasing thing.
20:40 - As an England fan, we were targeting the Scrum,
20:43 and I thought the Scrum held up really well.
20:45 No real issues there at all.
20:49 - I think for Scotland... - James, you mentioned...
20:51 Sorry, go on. - No, no, go for it, go for it.
20:53 - I was gonna ask, you mentioned the Lions coming up
20:57 and what Andy Farrell's gonna do.
20:58 I think it's safe to say the squad's gonna be
21:00 dominated by Ireland players.
21:03 I would expect Scotland to contribute
21:06 the next highest number of players.
21:07 We're gonna see what should be the title decider
21:12 at the Aviva in three weeks' time.
21:15 But just man for man, I think Ireland are a better squad.
21:20 If you go man for man, which Scotland players
21:23 do you think sort of surpass Ireland
21:27 if Andy Farrell's picking a Lions team
21:29 at the end of this tournament
21:30 rather than the end of the next one?
21:32 - Yeah, it's a good question.
21:33 I think I've been really critical of Scotland
21:37 and Finn Russell and Gregor Townsend.
21:39 And that actually comes from a good place as well
21:41 because I do want to see them do well.
21:42 I want them to overcome this mentality
21:46 which sort of dogged Wales a little bit back in the day
21:48 as well as the plucky underdogs
21:50 that don't quite get over the line.
21:51 And I think it's brilliant for the tournament
21:53 and brilliant for Scotland.
21:54 Obviously, they've got to get past Ireland,
21:56 but there could be something on the final game
21:58 of the tournament against Ireland,
22:00 which is a massive proposition.
22:02 You never know, England could spring an upset against Ireland.
22:05 It's possible.
22:06 It doesn't look like happening, but it is possible.
22:08 So for Scotland to go into the final game of the Six Nations,
22:13 hopefully with something on it,
22:15 a triple crown and a potential championship,
22:16 although Ireland seem to be racking up.
22:18 - Well, of course, the other curveball is
22:20 what's Andy going to tell his missus
22:22 if he don't pick their son to get to go with him?
22:24 That's going to cause a ruckus in the Farrell household.
22:28 So let's lob that grenade in there.
22:29 What I would say is, you know,
22:31 a week's a long time in politics
22:32 and a year is a hell of a long time in international rugby.
22:35 So, you know, this time next year,
22:37 you know, who knows what might have happened.
22:39 But certainly if you're picking it right now,
22:40 I tend to agree with you, it would be, you know,
22:43 12, 13 green shirts.
22:45 Van der Merwe, I think definitely.
22:46 And I agree, I think Russell's fantastic.
22:48 I'm glad that you picked Hugh Jones.
22:50 I thought he was really good in the senses.
22:52 I thought, yeah, the way that,
22:54 particularly against that blitz defence,
22:56 so little time and great hands,
22:57 great decision making at the line was fantastic.
23:00 - What I think is just really quickly on a final note
23:02 is that we're going to see a midweek Lions squad
23:06 dominated by Scotland players.
23:08 'Cause I think we're going to see a lot of Scotland players
23:10 go as backup to their Ireland counterparts,
23:12 because a lot of them do what the Ireland squad do,
23:15 just not quite as consistently.
23:16 I think Ben White will be a very handy deputy
23:19 for Jameson Gibson Park.
23:21 I think Sione Tuipilotu is capable of filling in
23:25 for Bundy Aki, but again,
23:27 just not nearly as consistently effective.
23:30 But that's all we've got time for on this week's show.
23:34 Thanks very much guys for joining me.
23:36 We'll be back once again in two weeks time
23:38 to discuss round four from this season's Six Nations.
23:43 I had to think there.
23:46 (laughing)
23:47 (upbeat music)
23:50 (upbeat music)
23:53 (upbeat music)
23:55 (upbeat music)
23:58 you