This week Chris Deacy is joined by Jo Phillips to discuss the films; Some Like It Hot, Thelma and Louise, Belfast, and 8 Mile.
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00:00 (dramatic music)
00:02 - Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club.
00:15 I'm Chris Deasy and each week I'll be joined
00:17 by a guest from Kent to dive deep into the impact
00:20 certain films have had on their life.
00:23 Each guest will reflect on the films
00:25 which have meant the most to them over the years.
00:27 And every week there will be a Kent Film Trivia
00:29 where we quiz you at home about a film
00:32 that has a connection to the county.
00:35 And now let me introduce you to my guest for this week.
00:38 She's a talented hat trick being a writer,
00:40 broadcaster and political commentator.
00:43 She is Jo Phillips.
00:45 - Hello Chris.
00:46 - Hello again Jo, lovely to have you on the programme.
00:47 - Well, joy to be here.
00:48 - Now I don't know your selection,
00:49 but you did tip me off that "Some Like It Hot"
00:52 is your all time favourite film.
00:53 - My all time absolute favourite.
00:57 I can't imagine anybody not loving this film.
01:01 It is so funny.
01:03 Jack Lemmon, Tony Curtis, Marilyn Monroe,
01:07 plus a whole load of other people.
01:09 1959, the story is basically that Tony Curtis
01:14 and Jack Lemmon are a couple of jazz musicians.
01:17 You know, they're in Chicago, they're okay.
01:20 Jack Lemmon's a bass player, Tony Curtis is a saxophonist.
01:24 For some reason, the speakeasy that they are playing in
01:28 gets raided by the police.
01:30 Now this is all sort of, you know,
01:31 mafia prohibition time, 1929, Chicago.
01:35 They witness the retribution of the bloke who squealed
01:40 to alert the police to come and raid the club.
01:45 And they go on the run.
01:47 They go on the run as women,
01:50 dressed in the most extraordinary outfits
01:53 and join an all girls band, Sweet Sue's Syncopated Society,
01:58 of whom the lead singer and ukulele player
02:03 is Marilyn Monroe.
02:05 Now, Marilyn Monroe is, in this film, just beautiful.
02:10 She's funny, she's sexy, but she looks like
02:15 she's having such fun with Curtis and Lemmon.
02:19 And of course, they fall absolutely madly in love with her,
02:23 but they've got to maintain, you know,
02:26 Jack Lemmon is Daphne and Tony Curtis is Josephine.
02:30 And so it is a comedy caper, but it's got a bit of pathos
02:35 because Marilyn Monroe is desperately looking for love,
02:39 obviously, Tony Curtis desperately wants to fall in love
02:42 with Marilyn Monroe, and meanwhile, they're being chased
02:47 and subsequently discovered by the mafia bosses
02:51 who knew that they'd witnessed the shooting,
02:54 which is based on the Valentine's Day massacre.
02:56 - And I was just thinking as well,
02:57 because we had another Billy Wilder classic,
02:58 The Apartment, on a previous episode.
03:01 And I mean, that's what Billy Wilder does so well,
03:03 that you have the comedy caper,
03:05 and you think of Tootsie, you think of Mrs. Doubtfire,
03:07 which drew on the same, you know,
03:08 on the template that really was provided by this film.
03:10 But you've got that underlying pathos,
03:13 and so you've got a 1950s film set
03:16 at the end of the 1920s, but which is timeless.
03:20 And that's the hook, isn't it?
03:22 - Well, and also based on a 1935 French film
03:27 called Fanfare of Love.
03:29 But interesting that you mentioned Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire
03:32 'cause some like it hot, was produced without approval
03:36 from the Motion Picture Production Code,
03:42 the Hays Code it was known as,
03:43 because it featured cross-dressing.
03:45 So actually, this sort of broke the law.
03:49 Now, if this hadn't gone through,
03:51 and of course things had then eventually sort of,
03:54 the Hays Code lost any strength at all,
03:58 but you wouldn't have had Tootsie or Mrs. Doubtfire.
04:00 - Absolutely, and can you remember the first time
04:02 that you saw this?
04:03 I'm guessing that you've grown up with some like it hot.
04:06 - Yes, I have grown up with some.
04:07 I can't really remember when it was.
04:10 I just remember it was that sort of Christmas,
04:14 Christmas, New Year sort of period.
04:16 The weather was rubbish.
04:17 I can't remember what time of day it was.
04:21 Everybody else had gone off somewhere
04:24 and I was at home with my mother.
04:26 And this was on the television.
04:29 And we both watched it and we laughed and laughed and laughed
04:33 and I've loved it ever since.
04:34 I mean, it never fails to make me laugh.
04:37 And of course it's got the best last line of any film.
04:40 - In a way, you've given away,
04:42 because I was so tempted at one point to say,
04:44 "Well, you've chosen some like it hot."
04:45 Nobody's perfect.
04:46 But there is something about this.
04:47 It's had a resurgence in the cinema.
04:49 I saw it in Margate just about two years ago.
04:53 - Oh, really?
04:54 - With quite a packed audience.
04:55 So what is the hook, do you think,
04:57 for some like it hot in that regard?
04:59 Why has this, perhaps equally, in my view,
05:02 with The Apartment, of all the Billy Wilder comedies,
05:04 this really one has stood the test of time?
05:06 - Well, I don't know, is the short answer.
05:10 I mean, maybe the death of Tony Curtis,
05:13 but that was a few years ago.
05:14 Maybe people are beginning to look at these things
05:19 and not be so sniffy about them.
05:21 Because I think there is always,
05:23 and I mean, you must get this all the time
05:24 on this programme, Britta,
05:26 there's an element of snobbery about films.
05:29 Now, you could just regard this as slapstick,
05:31 two blokes dressed as girls playing in bands.
05:36 They're on the run.
05:37 There's Marilyn Monroe for the love interest.
05:39 And so on and so forth.
05:41 But as we've just said,
05:43 there is an element of pathos to it.
05:45 It's also beautifully shot.
05:47 I mean, there are fantastic bits
05:49 when they're on this train
05:51 on their way from Chicago to Miami.
05:54 And this all-girl band,
05:56 with a fearsome band leader who is syncopated, Sue.
06:00 And they're up in Marilyn Monroe's top bunk,
06:04 and she's all breathy,
06:05 and she's got a hot water bottle full of bourbon
06:09 or something like that.
06:10 So there's an innocence about it,
06:13 but it's also the relationship.
06:14 And I think all good films work
06:18 on the relationship between people.
06:20 And there is obviously a brilliant relationship
06:23 between Curtis and Lemon.
06:24 I think Jack Lemon is one of the most
06:27 underrated comedy actors ever.
06:29 And Marilyn Monroe at her absolute best.
06:31 - Absolutely.
06:32 And the singing moments in that film as well, of course.
06:35 They are transcendent.
06:36 - I wanna be loved by you,
06:38 which I'm not gonna sing.
06:39 - Well, okay, thank you very much.
06:40 We're gonna move on to your second chosen film.
06:43 And oh, I mentioned having already seen
06:46 some like "Hot" recently at the cinema.
06:48 I saw this film just before I turned 50,
06:51 back in June of last year.
06:53 Ridley Scott's "Thelma & Louise."
06:54 - Where did you see it?
06:55 - I saw this in London at the O2.
06:59 - Oh, so has this had a resurgence then?
07:01 Is that what you're saying?
07:02 Or is it you?
07:03 - Well, I think it's me.
07:04 - Is it the film club, you think?
07:05 - Well, I saw this 'cause I was surprised
07:07 because I saw it when it first came out.
07:08 And it's one of those films that when I first saw it,
07:11 back in the early '90s, it was very impressive.
07:14 But I was aware that a lot of people were like,
07:17 this is the first proper feminist road movie.
07:20 I didn't know very much about film in those days.
07:23 So watching that, and also Ridley Scott
07:24 has done very male-driven films like "Gladiator."
07:27 This is quite a change of emphasis for him.
07:29 And I think that's maybe why it works.
07:33 - Well, I mean, we could argue until the cows come home
07:36 about whether it is a truly first feminist film.
07:40 To me, this is a film that is about friendship.
07:43 And it's about female friendship.
07:45 And everybody probably knows the story.
07:48 Two women, basically, they plan to go for a weekend away
07:52 from their dreary lives in Arkansas.
07:55 So Thelma and Louise, the title of the film,
08:00 which is Susan Sarandon and Gina Davis.
08:02 And off they go, what could possibly go wrong?
08:06 Well, what possibly goes wrong starts quite early on.
08:09 I mean, they've both got ghastly partners.
08:12 One's got a dreadful husband,
08:14 the other one's got a sort of on-off boyfriend
08:16 who's quite manipulative.
08:17 And they meet this bloke in a motel,
08:21 and start dancing and having a nice time with him.
08:26 And as they leave, he, now, this has,
08:30 when you think that this was 1991,
08:33 and you think what he says in the film,
08:36 and think where we are now with Me Too and everything else.
08:39 And she is so furious, she shoots him.
08:43 So this is Thelma's,
08:45 she's dancing with this bloke, Harlan Puckett.
08:47 Louise intervenes, and he's, and Louise shoots him.
08:51 They know, and they discuss this at length,
08:55 that if they went to the police,
08:57 the police won't believe the claim,
09:00 because Thelma had been drinking and dancing with Harlan,
09:03 and consequently, they would be charged with murder.
09:06 Well, haven't we heard that before?
09:09 So now they're on the run for murder.
09:11 And so they go on, and so it becomes a road movie.
09:15 Go on.
09:16 - No, I was just gonna say,
09:17 because we were talking about Some Like It Hot,
09:18 but it's a road movie that goes wrong.
09:21 So the parallel between those is actually quite striking.
09:24 - Yes, and also the friendship, the relationship.
09:26 So the friendship between Josephine and Daphne,
09:30 or, you know, Jo and Jerry, as they are in their real life,
09:33 and Thelma and Louise in this, I think is really striking.
09:37 And I think female friendship is something
09:40 that is not very often explored,
09:44 and yet it is something that all women understand,
09:49 that that strength that you have
09:51 of a good female friend or friends is really important.
09:55 And everybody probably knows,
09:57 if not from actually seeing the film,
09:59 from seeing French and Saunders.
10:00 You know, as they get to the edge of the Grand Canyon,
10:04 and there's no way to go either
10:07 into the arms of Harvey Keitel the kind,
10:09 but he's gonna prosecute them,
10:11 because by now, they've attacked a state trooper
10:16 who's stopped them for speeding, and so on and so forth.
10:19 So they're on the run,
10:21 they're on the edge of the Grand Canyon,
10:22 and they just kiss each other, hold hands,
10:25 and they drive off to, we assume, their death.
10:28 But there's a lot in this film, Brad Pitt, for instance,
10:33 who was originally rejected because he was too young.
10:36 But it was, Ridley Scott actually tried out
10:41 a variety of people, George Clooney, what happened to him?
10:46 You know, there were lots and lots of things in this film
10:49 that had not been done before.
10:52 Women driving, you know, fabulous car, Thunderbird,
10:55 women being very violent.
10:58 I mean, and again, that sort of thing about friendship
11:02 and partnership, if you think about Butch Cassidy
11:04 and the Sundance Kid, they're on the run, too.
11:07 Some like it hot, they're on the run.
11:09 So, Thelma & Louise, to me, is a really important film,
11:13 and I think all young women should watch it
11:17 and put themselves in the position of that time,
11:22 in those days, that, you know, actually,
11:24 is it better to go on and go over the edge
11:27 or go back to drudgery?
11:29 - Yeah, challenging patriarchy, but no, thank you, Joe.
11:31 Brilliant choice.
11:32 Well, that's about all the time we have
11:33 for this first half of the show.
11:35 However, before we go to the break,
11:36 we have a Kent film trivia question for you at home.
11:40 Which Roald Dahl film features this Kent-born actor,
11:43 David Morris?
11:44 Is it A, "The Witches," B, "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory,"
11:49 or is it C, "Matilda?"
11:51 We'll reveal the answer right after this break.
11:53 Don't go away.
11:55 (dramatic music)
11:57 Hello, and welcome back to Kent Film Club.
12:09 Just before the ad break, we asked you at home
12:11 a Kent film trivia question.
12:13 Which Roald Dahl film features this Kent-born actor,
12:17 David Morris?
12:18 I asked, is it A, "The Witches,"
12:20 B, "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory,"
12:22 or C, "Matilda?"
12:24 And now I can reveal to you that the answer was, in fact,
12:28 B, "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory."
12:30 David Morris, who was born in Folkestone,
12:32 but sadly passed in 2007,
12:35 portrayed the role of Grandpa George
12:37 in the 2005 remake of the Dahl classic,
12:40 "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory."
12:43 Did you get the answer right?
12:44 Well, it's time now to move, Jo,
12:46 onto your next chosen film,
12:48 and I saw this.
12:52 It was my first film at the cinema in 2022.
12:55 I know that Kenneth Branagh wrote this during lockdown,
12:58 and of course he won a screenplay Oscar
13:01 just a few months later, "Belfast."
13:03 - Yeah.
13:04 Yes, I think for me it was the first one.
13:06 Actually, no, it wasn't the first one after lockdown.
13:10 The first one after lockdown was "Something Heights,"
13:13 which was the most fantastic, wonderful musical.
13:16 A friend of mine said, "Do you want to come and see this
13:19 "at the Curzon in Canterbury?"
13:21 And I thought, "Mm."
13:22 But I think Kenneth Branagh's a little Marmite
13:24 for a lot of people.
13:26 I think he's got better as he's got older,
13:28 but somebody who writes their autobiography
13:30 at the age of 28 and he's now 60,
13:33 he has been an amazing influence.
13:36 This, I think, is so heartfelt,
13:38 and like most people who have grown up with the troubles,
13:43 always being on the news,
13:46 the absolute tragedy that has been Northern Ireland
13:49 in our lifetime, I thought,
13:50 "Do I really want to go and see a film about Belfast?"
13:53 And I absolutely loved it, partly, but not solely,
13:58 because it is so beautifully shot,
14:02 and it was shot in colour,
14:04 and then black and white, made into black and white.
14:08 It's also, because a lot of the action takes place
14:11 in the sort of the terrace streets where the family live,
14:14 it's very choreographed,
14:17 but without getting to the point where you think,
14:22 "Oh, in a minute, they're going to burst
14:23 "into song and dance."
14:25 But it is absolutely beautiful to look at.
14:28 Judi Dench, who is Granny, we can see her there,
14:32 who I think is just absolutely amazing,
14:36 and Ciaran Hines, who's her husband.
14:38 So they're the grandparents.
14:40 I mean, these are absolutely brilliant actors,
14:45 just playing relatively minor parts.
14:49 And it is, you know, the story is basically,
14:51 young family, dad's working away,
14:53 Belfast is becoming increasingly dangerous,
14:56 they're a Protestant family,
14:57 and it gets to the point to a variety of things
15:01 where they decide to leave for England.
15:03 It's sad, it's real, it's obviously deeply,
15:07 deeply personal to Kenneth Branagh.
15:10 And I absolutely loved it.
15:12 Sometimes you need to go and do something,
15:13 see a film that you don't necessarily want to.
15:15 - Well, when I saw this film,
15:17 it was one of those secret screenings
15:18 that all of the well-known cinema chains offer.
15:21 And people often walk out.
15:23 If it's a horror film, for example,
15:24 people say, "Oh, I don't like horror."
15:25 So they walk out and it's very disruptive.
15:26 So I'm watching the audience, not watch the film.
15:29 Now this film, of course, it's in black and white.
15:31 And I think that it's set in the trebles.
15:32 I think a few people thought maybe this is,
15:34 maybe they'd expected a Marvel film.
15:36 But "Those Who Stayed," this was about,
15:38 and the bit that stands out for me was at the funeral,
15:40 which was obviously a very sad moment.
15:43 And they play love affair, everlasting love.
15:45 And suddenly I think my recollection
15:47 is that it goes into colour.
15:48 Yeah, absolutely.
15:49 And suddenly it feels very vibrant
15:52 and it captures the essence of that late '60s period.
15:54 - And it's the funeral of Pop Grander.
15:57 Well, I'll just read you what Kevin Mayer of The Times
16:00 wrote at the time.
16:01 He said, "It's a film of formal beauty,
16:04 "letter-perfect performances,
16:05 "complex and textured writing, also from Branagh,
16:09 "and enough comedic one-lines
16:10 "and Van Morrison musical montages
16:13 "to make you forget that you're watching a drama
16:15 "about seething sectarian hatreds."
16:18 And I think in a way that sort of sums it up
16:21 because it's about bringing something, a big story,
16:25 the trebles, to the level of one family.
16:28 And I think it's that, that intimacy.
16:30 And that life and death was still going on,
16:34 as you just said, the funeral of Pop,
16:36 the fact that when he's in hospital
16:38 and the little boy who it's centred around, Buddy.
16:40 I mean, I just, I think it's a very moving film
16:43 and I think it's beautifully done.
16:45 - And the link with, I mean, it's trite,
16:48 just trying to say, well, of course it fits
16:49 in with what you said, but it's that journey,
16:51 that adventure where you don't know
16:52 if the destination's gonna be better
16:55 than where you are now. - Yes.
16:56 - But it's, anyone making a big career decision,
16:59 for example, is that sort of, you know,
17:01 is it the better the devil you know?
17:02 Is the grass greener on the other side?
17:04 'Cause it's ironic that it's shot in black and white,
17:06 but it does deal with that same trajectory.
17:08 - Yes, and you've got, you know,
17:10 Mum, Grey, Judy Dench, now widowed,
17:14 watching from her little terraced house
17:17 as they go off, the family go off to live in England.
17:21 And she's sort of willing them to go,
17:24 but you know that that line is broken, in a way.
17:28 - And it's the rite of passage,
17:29 but also, of course, Kenneth Branagh did this,
17:31 you mentioned he was 28 when he wrote his autobiography,
17:34 but this was at least a version of his growing up.
17:38 And of course, a lot of people would be very surprised
17:39 to learn that he's from Belfast.
17:41 - Absolutely, yeah. - Because of the lack
17:42 of an accent. - Yeah, I mean,
17:43 I've heard him interviewed about it when it came out,
17:46 and he speaks very passionately and movingly.
17:48 And I think, you know, as you said, Chris,
17:50 he wrote it during lockdown, which was a time
17:52 when I think a lot of us, you know,
17:53 looked inward, did other things.
17:55 I did a forensic science course, for goodness sake.
17:58 You know, there's all sorts of things that we've all done,
18:00 and I think for somebody creative,
18:02 they shot it really quickly,
18:03 they shot it in something like seven weeks or something.
18:05 But it's also the black and white
18:07 that makes it much more powerful, I think.
18:10 - No, and it's a very majestic film,
18:13 and it really speaks to me. - Yeah, majestic
18:14 is a very good word, very good word.
18:16 - Okay, well it's time now, Jo,
18:17 to move on to your final chosen film.
18:19 Oh, you've gone for Eminem, "Eight Mile."
18:22 Gosh, my first instinct is this is quite different
18:25 from the other ones, but you can pitch it to me.
18:28 - Well, let me just tell you that when I told my grandson,
18:31 when we were coming back from a trip to Italy
18:34 on the train last year, that I really liked Eminem,
18:37 he said, "You are the weirdest grandmother
18:41 "anybody could ever have."
18:43 Now, I have to say, and this is a little bit like Belfast,
18:47 I don't like rap music.
18:49 I find it intrusive and irritating.
18:52 So you might think, why did I see this film?
18:55 Eminem, as you know, I'm a political commentator and stuff,
19:00 he had this alter ego, "Slim Shady,"
19:02 which was a fantastic series, it was an album actually,
19:07 which was a satire on the American political system,
19:11 but it would just as easily translate here.
19:13 Shady, slidey, all the rest of it,
19:16 kissing babies, promising this, that, and the other.
19:18 This is one of the saddest films I think I've ever seen,
19:22 but it's very truthful, and in a way,
19:24 it is a link to Kenneth Branagh and Belfast,
19:28 because this is Eminem, Marshall Mathers,
19:31 is his real name, is very autobiographical,
19:34 poor, white, trailer trash, living in Detroit,
19:40 mom, who is Kim Basinger in this film,
19:42 who's an alcoholic, living in this trailer.
19:45 I think there's a sister as well,
19:48 and there's an abusive partner, all of that stuff.
19:52 He's got a sort of a dead-end job,
19:54 and rapping is what he wants to do,
19:59 and there are these competitions, these rap competitions,
20:02 and he takes part in one, he has a coughing fit,
20:05 he chokes, and he loses, and thereafter is pilloried
20:09 and joked at and laughed at.
20:11 Anyway, there is a happy part of this film,
20:14 not necessarily a happy ending,
20:15 where he actually gets his confidence back.
20:18 He takes on this bloke called Papa Doc,
20:21 who's a black rapper, so there's an element
20:24 of racial tension, can a white, working-class boy
20:27 be as good as a black rapper?
20:29 And 8 Mile, of course, is the name,
20:31 it's the road that basically divides
20:33 the black and the white neighborhoods
20:35 in this part of Detroit.
20:37 He takes on Papa Doc, and Papa Doc,
20:40 who is the winner of this rap competition
20:42 and all the rest of it, he knows that he's going
20:44 to destroy Eminem, Jimmy Rabbit, his name is in the film,
20:48 by saying, "He can't rap, he's a white guy,"
20:51 but he beats him to it, and he says,
20:54 "I'm not going to try and do rap, be safe."
20:57 But he basically says, "You're not Papa Doc,
21:02 "your real name is Clarence, you live in a really nice house,
21:05 "you're very well brought up, you've been
21:08 "to a fabulous school, you've got everything."
21:11 So you are portraying this image of the hard-done-by
21:16 kid from the slums and all the rest of it,
21:19 at which point Clarence, his opponent,
21:22 hands him the microphone, and he has won.
21:25 He just goes back to his life.
21:27 But I just found it really interesting,
21:29 and I think Eminem is a really, really interesting writer.
21:34 - Yeah, and I'm just thinking as well,
21:35 you've got the redemptive, the therapeutic value of music,
21:38 that brings us to some like it hot.
21:40 And I suppose also in terms of what we were just saying
21:42 about Thelma and Louise as well,
21:44 it's about, there it was gender,
21:46 but here it's race, but class as well.
21:49 But it's about doing stuff on your own terms.
21:53 And he does it on his own terms,
21:54 and he doesn't go off and get a career,
21:58 a recording contract, and all the rest of it.
22:00 He just goes back to work in his awful
22:03 sort of blue-collar job.
22:04 But he's done this on his own terms.
22:06 He's stood up to the guy, the rapper champion, Papa Doc,
22:11 but he's also elevated himself within his own community.
22:17 I think it's really, it's one of those films
22:20 that I think is worth watching over and over again.
22:23 And I really, really, really rate Eminem.
22:25 - Yeah, challenging orthodoxy, yes.
22:28 And he's the same age as me more or less.
22:30 If we'd been in the same school,
22:31 we'd be in the same year, I know.
22:33 - Don't be ridiculous.
22:34 - But I think that's where the analogy ends.
22:35 But you've given me a better point of connection than--
22:39 - Yeah, it's worth watching again, I think,
22:41 and thinking about.
22:41 - Yeah, and did you ever see this on the big screen?
22:44 Can you remember the first time you saw it?
22:46 - Uh, I think it was on the big screen,
22:49 but no is the short answer, no.
22:52 I did happen to be in New York, and Eminem was,
22:55 I mean, this came out at the time that I was working
22:59 in an office where MTV was on all the time,
23:01 and so there was a lot of Slim Shady,
23:04 Slim Shady, Slim Shady, and all of that sort of stuff.
23:06 And I happened to be in New York,
23:07 and Eminem was doing a concert,
23:11 and I thought, oh, amazing,
23:12 I'm staying in this friend's flat.
23:14 But of course, because of the network rights
23:16 and everything else, all you got to see
23:18 was an awful lot of him getting out of a car
23:21 and lots of adverts and da-da-da-da.
23:23 And it might have been after that that I saw it,
23:25 but I really rate it.
23:27 - There's a pun somewhere about losing yourself in this film.
23:30 If you know the lyrics, then that's a wonderful choice.
23:33 I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today.
23:36 So many thanks to Jo Phillips for joining us
23:38 and being such a brilliant guest.
23:40 And many thanks to you all for tuning in.
23:41 Be sure to come back and join us again
23:43 at the same time next week.
23:45 Until then, that's all from us.
23:47 Goodbye.
23:48 (upbeat music)
23:51 (upbeat music)
23:54 (upbeat music)
23:56 (dramatic music)