This week Chris Deacy is joined by Tom Harvey to discuss the films: Mother!, Hereditary, The Help, and Hercules.
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00:00 [Music]
00:13 Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club.
00:16 I'm Chris DC and each week I'll be joined by a guest from Kent to dive deep into the
00:20 impact certain films have had on their life.
00:23 Each guest will reflect on the films that have meant the most to them over the years.
00:27 And every week there will be a Kent Film Trivia where we quiz you at home about a film that
00:32 has a connection to the county.
00:35 And now let me introduce you to my guest for this week.
00:39 He is an award winning filmmaker who fills his time watching TV and films and finding
00:44 the next best place to eat.
00:46 He is Tom Harvey.
00:47 Hello, thank you so much for having me.
00:49 Good to meet you Tom.
00:50 Well I'm looking forward to finding out what your selection of films are.
00:52 I don't know the choice in advance but I have seen Mother.
00:57 Why have you chosen this film?
00:59 Yeah this film for me is just an incredible film.
01:02 A lot of people who know me will know that I'm a massive fan of Gothic, especially Gothic
01:05 in literature.
01:06 And for me this film fulfils a lot of the conventions that are used a lot in those kinds
01:11 of pieces of literature.
01:13 For me I find this film interesting in a sense that you are constantly questioning a lot
01:19 about these characters and where they are, what the setting is.
01:22 What the kind of narrative is because I feel like this film, the director Ari Aster, who
01:26 is the writer as well, he makes this very subjective film because you are essentially
01:33 viewing this very subjectively as well as the main character who is Mother, who obviously
01:37 is Jennifer Lawrence.
01:39 And the way he constructs that is through the techniques of not only sound but also
01:43 the camera as well.
01:44 I feel like it's a really interesting piece to watch and observe because you are only
01:48 getting three perspectives which is a point of view of her from what she sees over the
01:53 shoulder so you see how her environment surrounds her and how she interacts with it.
01:57 And also you kind of get the sense of how other people react to her and how things that
02:03 are happening in the film are impacting her along the way.
02:06 And it's this transcendence of a characterisation that you get from this something.
02:11 You feel such an empathy towards her at the beginning and then you slowly start to feel
02:16 the struggle and the horror that she's experiencing in this situation.
02:22 It's a really great film to watch in that sense.
02:25 Absolutely, because I saw this at the cinema and it was very divisive and I remember even
02:30 people afterwards, some of them were like "oh this is amazing" and some people were
02:33 like "this was the most horrible, gruesome experience I've had".
02:36 And of course you're never quite sure almost what sort of genre it's going to end up in.
02:41 Is that a good way to categorise it?
02:43 Absolutely, yeah.
02:44 I think it goes from zero to a hundred, not so quickly but it's that progression of how
02:49 they're experiencing it.
02:51 I think for me the one thing I noticed when I went to see it was the film rating and it
02:54 sounds bizarre but seeing an 18 in a film nowadays is quite rare because a lot of society
03:02 in terms of a lot of the things have become a bit more desensitised to.
03:05 And I was kind of questioning throughout, I was like "this seems very quiet film"
03:09 but I was thinking halfway through, I was like "nothing's really happened yet in that
03:11 sense".
03:12 But it gets to the last half an hour, all guns blazing and it goes to 100% and you realise
03:17 then you're like "ah, this is a really genre bending kind of film really".
03:22 It goes from thriller to drama to horror and it's really that cool way of filmmaking in
03:30 a sense of this constantly changing environment that's going on, even if it's set in this
03:36 household, it's really interesting.
03:39 And actors who in some cases defy expectations.
03:42 Am I right in thinking this is from memory, Michelle Pfeiffer appears in this as well.
03:46 She does, yes.
03:47 And sort of playing maybe against time?
03:50 Yeah, I feel like she, again these characters don't really have names essentially and for
03:55 her I can imagine from my interpretation, I think a lot of people's interpretations
04:00 of her character is that she represents Eve and obviously this film being so biblically
04:04 charged in that way, it's a very interesting role to play I guess.
04:09 I can imagine getting this script as an actor and thinking about who is my character and
04:16 questioning where they are in this story and I feel like that would be a really cool thing.
04:22 Definitely Michelle playing into this horror genre is something we've never really seen
04:26 her in before and I think that's really cool and it's very creepy and I think she does
04:30 that really, really well.
04:31 Absolutely and I think Lars von Trier has done some similar kind of work, almost that
04:35 sort of biblical allusions to what's going on here.
04:40 But is this the sort of film that you come away thinking I've completely got it?
04:44 Or like me, do you come away thinking, okay it wasn't quite what I was expecting but I'm
04:47 not sure I wanted to sit through it again in order to try and piece it all together
04:52 from the beginning?
04:53 But I'm guessing that you have done so.
04:55 Yes, I think, yeah I definitely agree.
04:58 It's one of those films where you kind of question whether you, if you did like it or
05:01 not.
05:02 And I feel like in some sense I feel like you would kind of get this idea about how
05:07 it's representing some kind of religion or looking at the Bible specifically and I think
05:13 that's really well constructed in that way.
05:15 But yeah I think it's a very interesting film in the way it leaves you because it's almost
05:19 this cyclical structure and it kind of ends how it starts and I feel like a lot of people
05:26 I've spoken to do have these, they kind of lead the film having more questions than having
05:30 them answered.
05:31 And I feel like I like that because, especially in this kind of film, because it makes it
05:36 a bit more obscure and unique and really interesting.
05:40 I think in some way you can get away with the controversy with it a little bit more
05:44 because I feel like it's not so explicit in the film.
05:47 It's more metaphorical and symbolic and as you said, allusions as well.
05:52 So yeah it's a really interesting film to watch.
05:55 Did you watch this with an audience?
05:57 Because as you say this is quite a divisive kind of film that's going to prompt all sorts
06:00 of reactions.
06:01 So is this something the first time maybe you saw in a cinema?
06:06 I actually didn't watch this film in the cinema which was, well I say quite surprising but
06:10 a lot of people know that I'm not the biggest fan of horror.
06:12 And for me when I saw the trailer for this film I loved Jennifer Lawrence so I was immediately
06:16 attracted to the film.
06:17 And I loved Darren Aronofsky from his previous film Black Swan and that's an incredible film.
06:21 And I knew what kind of tone he was creating there and I felt like the way this film was
06:24 marketed was very horror heavy.
06:27 So I was kind of like no I don't want to go and watch it.
06:28 So I did watch this at home but I did watch this with insight of people having a reaction
06:33 to the film.
06:34 I knew that.
06:35 So it was quite nice for me to in a way sit down on my own and watch it on my own and
06:38 have my own opinion towards it.
06:39 But I really do wish I'd seen it in a cinematic environment where I do have this feeling of
06:44 emotion or reaction.
06:46 I think that would be really really cool.
06:47 Brilliant.
06:48 Well thank you Tom.
06:49 Well it's time now to move on to your second chosen film and oh I can see the connection
06:54 immediately.
06:55 This is hereditary.
06:56 Yes.
06:57 Again you know going back to that thought process of me not liking horror film and actually
07:03 I was thinking about this the other day.
07:04 This is probably the first horror film I have experienced in the cinema and again like Mother
07:09 it's a very similar kind of environment where it's very gothic and the connotations that
07:15 are created in this film are really interesting.
07:17 And you know kind of relating back to mythology and you know things like that and religion
07:20 I guess in some aspects.
07:21 So yeah it's a really interesting film and Ari Aster is just an absolute genius.
07:26 And it was the first film I saw in Dover just after I moved to that part of the world in
07:32 2018 and it was quite a late screening and I was driving back home and I was convinced
07:39 in a way that I wouldn't normally be that there was something in the car.
07:42 It's almost as if something from the film had travelled back with me and I felt a real
07:47 sense of unease.
07:48 And I've never watched it since.
07:51 But is that an experience that you can relate to?
07:54 It's strange you know because I do like thrillers and I like some psychological element but
08:00 I totally get you in terms of you know you have this unnerving feeling when you leave
08:04 the film.
08:05 And for me Ari is a genius in a sense of he doesn't rely on the typical conventions of
08:10 horror in terms of jump scares and things like that.
08:13 He relies on very mundane things really for me.
08:16 I feel like this film especially is very much about you know he utilises a family drama
08:22 going through grief and trauma and he uses those elements to obviously combine it with
08:26 the supernatural elements really really well to again build that unnerving environment.
08:31 I think that it's really really great and you know I totally agree it does leave a mark
08:36 on you once you've watched it.
08:37 Yeah and we saw it with Midsommar as well a year or so later.
08:41 And I'm just sort of thinking here because there's a common link obviously with the first
08:44 film that you mentioned as well.
08:45 But the premise of this film as well and the whole idea of what can be passed down through
08:50 the family line and it made me think of all sorts of, it's funny you mentioned the Old
08:54 Testament earlier but St Augustine as well, original sin.
08:56 Do you want to just talk about what it is about this film that is so compelling and
09:01 what the quite distinctive plot twist is?
09:04 Yeah I think for me I was really immediately drawn to acting as for me a really gripping
09:10 thing about a film and that's the first thing that attracts me to it.
09:14 And I was immediately interested in Toni Collette's character and where she kind of sits in this
09:19 film because I feel like again it's very much like that mother situation where you're trying
09:23 to question who she is and what her role actually is in the film.
09:26 And then I feel like halfway through the film it's very unexplicit at the use of symbolism
09:32 that Ari kind of puts in there like these symbols of payment and things like that throughout.
09:37 You kind of question oh well maybe this is a supernatural element that's going in in
09:40 there and intertwined with this family relationship drama that's going on.
09:44 I think that for me was those initial kind of conventions of using these symbolism and
09:49 these images that we are kind of disturbed by and query about.
09:55 By the end of the film there's a scene where you kind of have this exposition of explanation
09:59 of what's going on and how the grandmother is obviously passed down.
10:02 This kind of horrifying element of passing down payment in the family and obviously realising
10:08 that payment isn't in the right body and this kind of very brutal environment of trying
10:13 to see how they're trying to correct that.
10:17 And it's a really disturbing kind of narrative in that sense.
10:20 And something that I remember, you can correct me on this, is that to begin with you think
10:24 that Toni Collette's character is outside of all of this.
10:26 There's something going on but she seems to be somebody who is in control of her faculties
10:31 but by the end of it she realises that she's completely caught up in this horror.
10:36 And for me it was that transition, that realisation that something evil is going on that actually
10:42 brings out the very best in horror.
10:43 Yeah, absolutely.
10:44 I think as you say, you do question whether she's good or evil I guess in this film or
10:50 where she fits in this supernatural element.
10:53 And I think for me she's almost a hero which is really interesting in a very strange and
11:00 brutal way of this kind of way of trying to stop payment.
11:04 And I think that she's kind of subconsciously trying to do that but she's not actually aware
11:08 of it.
11:09 But again for me, I only really interpreted that once I left the film and I kind of went
11:13 and researched it a bit more and then I re-watched it and I was like, you know what, I can actually
11:16 see how this is happening now.
11:18 And Ari Aster, he's just an absolute genius in this characterisation of throwing in little
11:23 elements that you can leave the film in and return to it and notice these little things
11:28 that are happening earlier on in the film and then how he gets to it.
11:31 It's really, really cool.
11:32 Brilliant.
11:33 Well thank you Tom.
11:34 That's all the time we have for this first half of the show.
11:36 However before we go to the break we have a Kent Film Trivia question for you at home.
11:41 Which Royal English period piece was filmed in Dover Castle?
11:44 Was it A) The Other Berlin Girl, B) Henry V or C) The King's Speech?
11:50 We'll reveal the answer right after this break.
11:53 Don't go away.
11:54 [Theme Music]
12:05 Hello and welcome back to Kent Film Club.
12:09 Just before that ad break we asked you at home a Kent Film Trivia question.
12:13 Which Royal English period piece was filmed in Dover Castle?
12:17 I asked was it A) The Other Berlin Girl, B) Henry V or C) The King's Speech?
12:23 And now I can reveal to you that the answer was in fact A) The Other Berlin Girl.
12:29 The Berlin family had extensive connections with Kent.
12:31 The family lived in Hever Castle while Henry VIII adored Noel.
12:35 With this connection in mind filming actually took place at three fantastic locations across
12:41 Kent.
12:42 Did you get the answer right?
12:44 Well it is time now Tom to move on to your next chosen film and you've gone for a change
12:50 of genre to help.
12:52 Yes, I just absolutely love this film.
12:55 I actually watched the film before I read the book and my initial kind of going into
13:02 the film I actually wasn't too sure whether it was my type of film.
13:07 When I was at school I learnt a lot about the 1960s and the civil rights movement in
13:11 America and immediately this film was interesting to me but I felt like the context of understanding
13:18 and doing a bit of research I wasn't too sure whether it was for me or not.
13:20 I kind of regretted that decision of thinking that and I went into this film and I absolutely
13:25 loved it.
13:26 I think it's a really interesting perspective that you get from both sides of the social
13:31 life and white women and also the help of the black women as well.
13:34 And you kind of get a really good variety of perspectives of what happened in that era
13:40 and it's just a really heartwarming and hopeful film and it just left a mark on me when I
13:47 watched it.
13:48 And I know that one of the actresses on Reflection has said that maybe she wouldn't have been
13:52 involved with the project just in terms of the categorisation of race relations and the
13:59 role of servants etc.
14:01 But the film itself has perhaps in the course of the last decade since it came out generated
14:07 perhaps a little bit of reflection and critique, maybe it couldn't be made today in the same
14:11 way.
14:12 Yeah I totally agree.
14:13 I think a lot of people see the heroine as Emma Stone's character Skeeter who obviously
14:19 is a journalist and she quits her job to find other means and do better in the world.
14:26 And essentially a lot of people see her as the hero and unfortunately that kind of comes
14:31 across as controversial when you're talking about such an important time in the racism
14:36 movement and the narrative.
14:39 It's really interesting because I feel like for me when I was watching it I feel like
14:44 she's a facilitator in that rather than a hero.
14:46 I think for me Abilene is the true hero in terms of getting the strength to, at the beginning
14:50 she's very sceptical about revealing stories about her, what she does for work and revealing
14:57 stuff about obviously the family that she helps.
14:59 And then by the end she kind of takes the courage to do that and beyond the film as
15:05 well you have this sense of she retires and she wants to become a writer herself.
15:09 So I think for me the film starts with her and ends with her and I feel like to me she
15:15 is the true hero of this film.
15:16 And I remember that in the year that this came out it was this and the Iron Lady and
15:21 Meryl Streep just pipped to the post the lead actress in this film.
15:26 But do you want to say a little bit about what it is that this film really does have
15:30 to say?
15:31 Is it objective about it, how it fits in with as you mentioned civil rights issues but also
15:35 perhaps the question of who this film is made for?
15:38 Is it meant to appeal to a particular kind of audience?
15:42 Is it there to make maybe people be aware of something that they might not have been
15:46 aware of but doing so through a lens with which they might be a bit more familiar?
15:50 Absolutely.
15:51 For me the one thing you need to know about this film is that obviously the events in
15:55 it are fictional so you have to take everything with a pinch of salt.
15:58 However, for me what this story does well is it sets itself in the era really, really
16:02 well.
16:03 So events obviously that are happening within the year in the 1960s like JFK's assassination
16:08 and things like that are present in this film.
16:10 So it does that really, really well in terms of this fictional side of it as well.
16:14 But in terms of audience I do feel like this is very targeted at I guess more of a white
16:19 audience and I think that it's kind of as you say like a reflection and I feel like
16:23 if say for example the book writing was to happen and it could happen and it could help
16:28 the lives of the black help, this is what could happen.
16:32 It's hopeful in a sense that for me it's almost going back to it and reflecting on
16:36 our history and seeing what we as a society have done wrong and where we need to move
16:42 to.
16:46 In terms of this film it's very strange in terms of the I guess the emotions you feel.
16:50 So you do feel like this kind of happy or heartwarming experience but you do get that
16:55 sense of horror in terms of a lot of things that do happen to the help and you do have
17:02 this sense of the discrimination that happened and I think that's really effective.
17:07 So to me it's very much a reflective film in that sense.
17:14 And did you say then that you read the book on which this is based afterwards?
17:18 Yes.
17:19 Yeah, it's obviously as you know when you try to adapt a book to a film it's very
17:25 different and you do kind of get the same kind of sense in structure of the narrative
17:30 however there is more heightened and more detailed elements so you do get a bit more
17:34 characterisation in there.
17:35 But for me the actors in this film are just absolutely incredible and for me as a book
17:41 reader reading even after the film going back and watching the film again after I'd read
17:45 it you can see how much they were passionate about their characters and how they got to
17:49 them and it's really really great.
17:51 It's great when it happens that way round.
17:53 Yes.
17:54 Fantastic.
17:55 Okay well it's time now to move on to your final chosen film and oh a completely different
17:59 genre now.
18:00 We have Hercules.
18:01 Yes.
18:02 I'm a massive Disney fan and for me the most impossible question to be asked is what is
18:09 your favourite Disney movie?
18:11 And I can never answer the question straight away but the one film that always comes to
18:15 my mind is this film and it personally it brings a lot of nostalgia back to me and I
18:21 grew up on this film thanks to my mum she absolutely loves this film and even to this
18:25 day we watch it together and we just absolutely love it.
18:28 It's a great film.
18:29 So it's a film that you would very much watch with family members in that sense so it's
18:33 like that sense of being sort of passed down that this is something that is part of your
18:37 childhood but it's a point of connection.
18:40 Absolutely yeah.
18:41 In terms of the nostalgia as well like every time I watch this film I would think of my
18:44 mum and I love that and to me sharing that time together and watching this film and we
18:50 talk about these characters constantly all the time and we always say like especially
18:53 Meg you know I can't go any further without not mentioning Meg and she's such an iconic
18:58 character in a sense of you know in terms of the Disney structure and their narratives
19:03 they have like you know they almost have this female role who's kind of suits the Disney
19:08 princess kind of role and for me she subverts that in so many ways and you know she has
19:17 this sense of being aware that she is in love but she doesn't want to admit it and she's
19:22 very stubborn and I love that because she's going against the lot you know verbally as
19:26 well as physically and you know against a lot of those tropes and for me like that scene
19:31 where Hercules is going to try and save her when she's being heckled by some kind of creature
19:37 and she says the line "I am a damsel, I'm in distress, I can do this on my own, thank
19:42 you, goodbye" and she's very much like you know it plays on those tropes of like how
19:45 you would expect the hero or the man to go and save the woman and she's very much just
19:49 like "Oh leave me alone" and she kind of almost mocks him in that, you know Hercules in that
19:53 way which is really really cool.
19:55 And it's quite funny because as you were describing that I thought gosh you could always be talking
19:57 about mother in that regard you know sort of in terms of the way that it deals with
20:01 particular tropes and sort of family relations so maybe that's a common link but do you
20:05 think, and this is a question I often ask on this programme when an animated film is
20:09 chosen, do you think an animated film can do something different or something special
20:13 that maybe live action is not able to realise?
20:17 Yeah I feel emotion is my big thing when you know when Disney do their live action reimaginings
20:24 you know you can see there's a sense of different feeling you have towards the characters.
20:29 I feel like animation for me can go above and beyond in terms of expression and you
20:34 know live action struggles in that sense a lot of the ways.
20:37 You know animation can make faces look really large and long and you know in live action
20:42 and you know in those kinds of filming you're kind of limited to what the actor can give
20:47 so I feel like that's one of the main things as well but I feel like you know in terms
20:51 of visual you know animation can go so far and I love that.
20:56 This film in particular for me is you know I think it's quite controversial in terms
20:59 of the movement of Disney's animation so this was like you know late 90s so it was going
21:03 through that period where you know they were coming out of the illustration and going into
21:07 3D computer generated animation and this film kind of combines both which obviously I think
21:13 a lot of the fans at the time were not too sure about and I feel like if I was to you
21:18 know when I was born I was 19, 19, 8 so I was just after this was released so you know
21:22 for me it's a bit different but for people who obviously are adults at that part of period
21:26 I can kind of imagine that but for now I can kind of look back and go well this was Disney
21:30 kind of you know experimenting and going through the stages of what they have done and going
21:35 into what they are going to be doing in the future and obviously now so yeah I think that's
21:40 really really great and you know even the latest Disney film Wish kind of for me combines
21:45 a lot of those elements as well and obviously looking back to the 100 years of the Walt
21:49 Disney Company as well and you know that kind of mimics that in that way as well which is
21:53 really really great but yeah this film I just love it.
21:56 And in a way it was a golden age of animation because I remember seeing Mulan, Hunchback
22:01 of Notre Dame and of course this was also the era of Toy Story as well so Hercules is
22:07 something that obviously particularly stands out but do you think that it stands out because
22:15 obviously you grew up with it and you watched it with your mother but do you think that
22:18 in terms of what you've said about some of those other Disney films do you think that
22:22 this has something a bit you know is it something that would stand out on its own terms rather
22:26 than because it's something that you grew up with?
22:29 Yeah I think this film for me has always stood out because Hercules in a sense you know I
22:35 know that this film is very much going against a lot of the mythology and it uses the Disney
22:44 structure to use these characters in their own terms and Hercules is quite an interesting
22:49 one because you know through the Greek mythology you know him as being the strong, being strong
22:55 and things and he kind of starts off as a almost like a catalyst for us as an audience
23:00 to see his progression into this hero that we know and for me that you know using that
23:07 kind of character is something that draws my attention to it and I think that's what
23:10 makes it stand out and unique in that sense as well and seeing his progression from you
23:15 know being a godly figure to a human or more kind of a humane character and then becoming
23:20 a god and then going back to human again because of his interest, love interest with Meg and
23:25 you know that's a really cool narrative to play around and you know for me unique in
23:29 that sense as well.
23:30 Well four great choices, thank you Tom.
23:32 Well I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today.
23:35 Many thanks to Tom Harvey for joining us and being such a brilliant guest and many thanks
23:40 to you all for tuning in.
23:41 Be sure to come back and join us again at the same time next week.
23:45 Until then that's all from us.
23:47 Goodbye.
23:47 Goodbye.
23:48 (Music)
23:58 [BLANK_AUDIO]