Hoosier Roundtable: Indiana vs Louisville Preview, Where Does Xavier Johnson Rank in Big Ten?
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00:00 Hello everybody and welcome to the Hoosier Roundtable podcast.
00:03 I'm your host, Daniel Olinger, and I am joined as I usually am by Jack Anthony.
00:08 Jack, how are you doing today?
00:09 Doing good, Daniel.
00:11 Excited to see what should be a pretty talent football game this weekend.
00:15 Yeah.
00:16 So for anyone who doesn't know, Indiana takes on Louisville this Saturday, not
00:19 at home and not at Louisville, but Lucas oil stadium in Indianapolis.
00:24 Uh, so not, I mean, obviously not a home game for Indiana.
00:28 It's closer to closer to the Hoosiers than it is to Louisville, but still
00:32 kind of like a good regional game, which I mean, it's a big topic of discussion
00:37 is the cancellation of the series.
00:38 T's team's not going to play in 2024 and 2025.
00:41 Like I originally had been planned.
00:42 I talked a little bit about that yesterday with Matt McGavick of Louisville
00:46 report and kind of how they're feeling, uh, Indiana fans kind of diverging
00:50 between, is this good, is this good for us that it's probably going to be easier
00:55 non-conference late and already tough conference to get some wins, but they're
00:58 also like, are they ducking a hard opponent?
01:01 Uh, Jack, I know you've written about this before if you just want to, I mean,
01:03 we've already given a lot of content on that, but if you just want to short
01:06 say what you had, what you think about the cancellation of the series.
01:09 Yeah.
01:10 I mean, I think it's not like they're canceling, um, some historic rivalry.
01:17 Um, it's not like, you know, these teams don't play every year.
01:20 So I don't think you're losing like that aspect aspect of it.
01:24 I get that it's kind of a regional thing and, um, you know, fans could be
01:28 excited for this type of matchup, but I think it's overall a smart decision for
01:33 Indiana.
01:34 I get that the optics are not good and that everyone is, you know, calling
01:39 them soft or cowards for canceling.
01:41 But.
01:41 You know, I think it's overall a smart decision for Indiana, especially given
01:48 that the big 10 plays nine conference games, like some other conferences only
01:52 play eight, like the sec and they get, you know, a bigger non-conference
01:57 schedule.
01:58 Um, you know, we've seen in past years, it's scheduling games like this can hurt
02:02 Indiana.
02:03 Like when they had to play Cincinnati the last two years and coincidentally got
02:08 Cincinnati on two of its best seasons ever.
02:10 And that really set things back for Indiana, especially in 2021, that was
02:14 kind of a turning point.
02:15 Um, so yeah, I get the criticism.
02:18 I get the, the, um, the complaints from fans and, um, how they're kind of just
02:24 piling on Indiana.
02:25 They think it's a soft move, but at this point, the goal for Indiana should be
02:30 getting back to bowl eligibility and going from there.
02:33 And, um, I really don't see the point of, of, of making the, making it more
02:38 difficult than it needs to be.
02:40 They already play one of the toughest schedules in the country.
02:43 It might get a little easier, um, in the coming years with big 10 expansion.
02:48 Um, just not having to play Ohio state, Penn state, Michigan every year, but.
02:52 You know, you might get Penn state USC and Iowa and Wisconsin or something.
02:58 So it's not like the schedule is getting all that, um, much easier.
03:03 It might be a little bit easier, but it'll still be difficult.
03:06 So I get it from Indiana's perspective.
03:08 Um, Yeah, I think it's, I think it's smart that if in 24 and 25, you want your
03:15 goal is bowl eligibility.
03:16 I think it's a smart call.
03:18 Well, if they're going to be eligible here in 2023, this game against little
03:22 Saturday is one of the ones we've circled as you kind of have to win it.
03:25 Or at least if it's one of like a group of like six games, you probably
03:29 got to win three or four of it's it's on that list, uh, Louisville under
03:33 coach Jeff Brown, who obviously was at Purdue, very familiar with Indiana.
03:36 Just took over the Sierra global on their first two games, 39, 34 over
03:40 Georgia tech and then 56, nothing of a Murray state, similar to how Indiana
03:45 just beat the crap out of Indiana state.
03:46 Like it was a week to FCS game.
03:48 That doesn't really matter that much.
03:50 Um, Louisville already just lighting it up on the scoreboard on the
03:54 Brown averaging 47 and a half points per game and 582 yards per game, which is
03:59 the fourth most in the country so far.
04:01 Again, it's two weeks in the season.
04:02 Total yards per game are not a very helpful stat.
04:04 A lot of the time.
04:05 It doesn't really talk to offensive efficiency and where it does pace the
04:08 game, but it is suffice to say Louisville does have given the Ohio state seemed
04:14 to play a very, um, not smart game on offense and then Indiana state was
04:19 overwhelmed this very much will be like Indiana's biggest test so far in terms
04:23 of an offense that might put pressure on their defensives and really good.
04:27 Good so far this year.
04:28 It was a lot of playmakers and Jamari thrash and you are Jordan, especially
04:32 Jamari thrash Terrence referred to Arja.
04:34 I forget if it's Georgia state or Georgia Southern.
04:36 It's one of those schools, but he is a.
04:39 A wicked explosive player in the open field, just deadly run after the catch
04:44 guy and then George Jordan, I believe it's currently averaging 16 and a half
04:48 yards per carry or carry as Louisville starting running back, which I mean.
04:51 It's pretty good.
04:53 So yeah, Louisville has some weapons there, but already talked a lot
04:57 about them with Matt yesterday.
04:58 So Jack, especially for Indiana, and I guess the big news with
05:02 Tavon Jackson being the starter.
05:03 What are you looking to see from them?
05:05 And especially from Tavon, just how do you want him to play
05:08 in this game against Louisville?
05:09 Yeah.
05:11 Um, I think this, this game is going to be very telling for Indiana.
05:16 Um, offensively in terms of.
05:18 It's not a game where you want to play conservative to try to limit possessions
05:24 and, you know, which was kind of their approach against Ohio state, Indiana
05:29 state, you were kind of just able to manhandle them.
05:31 So I think this game will, will be pretty telling about how Walt
05:34 Bell kind of wants to run things.
05:36 And.
05:36 You know, I still think we'll see some of, some of the options stuff.
05:39 There was definitely less of it against Indiana state, but I, I think with
05:43 Tavon's mobility, they want to do some of that.
05:46 Um, we saw him complete some downfield passes, a couple 20 yard completions.
05:51 He had that one, um, to Cam camper that was wiped away.
05:55 I think it was like a legal man downfield.
05:57 Are you talking about the double move touchdown should have been touchdown?
06:01 Yeah.
06:02 Yeah.
06:02 Would it, would it again, the first passing touchdown in an
06:05 Indiana football game so far this year, there's still not been one.
06:08 Yeah.
06:10 Um, so I, uh, you know, you want to see Tavon.
06:13 I think decision-making you, you want, you don't want to see him obviously
06:18 throw a bunch of interceptions or, or make some costly fumbles.
06:21 So I think kind of how he handles the environment, he mentioned this week
06:26 that, you know, it's a comfortable spot for him, you want some state
06:28 titles there with center Grove.
06:30 Um, I think you want to see Indiana utilize Jalen Lucas in space.
06:36 Um, I think against Ohio state, they kind of got caught, um, just kind of
06:41 ramming it up the middle with him a little too much, they saw him kind of
06:44 get outside against Indiana state where he really excels, um, and then something
06:49 that we got to keep an eye on that.
06:52 We probably won't know until kickoff because of the new injury reporting rules.
06:57 But Cam camper and EJ Williams both went out last week, and those are two of
07:03 Indiana's arguably top two, top three, four, at least I think of camper, you
07:08 can just say like camper is their best receiver and then EJ like, obviously
07:13 don't want any receivers that they do like guys like Omar Cooper, Jr.
07:16 And Donna McCauley.
07:17 I think they can sustain that.
07:19 But cam is just a huge loss as anyone saw last season.
07:21 Like if they need cam camper out there to really have like a number one guy who
07:26 could just threaten defenses like that, especially a little defense that it's
07:30 okay.
07:30 So I don't think it's very, I think it's very fair to say Louisville's defense
07:35 not as good as Ohio state's defense, but it's still like a solid defense.
07:38 They will not be throwing on air like they did last week.
07:41 Um, yeah, I just, I've written about it so many times.
07:44 I'm so interested to see just how they look in this game after Ohio state
07:48 didn't feel like a real game plan.
07:49 It was like a bizarre, bizarre season opener where Ohio state did not seem like
07:54 getting what it knew what it wanted to do.
07:56 Indiana knew what it wanted to do, but the plan kind of seemed like just to turn
08:00 the game to this weird, to this weird, slow it down, muck fest that didn't
08:04 really make any sense.
08:05 And then Indiana state was just, you can't learn much from
08:07 destroying an FCS team.
08:09 So this game against Louisville, they're just, I really want to see what that
08:13 offense looks like in terms of attack.
08:15 Like, like you said, like how much option actually is there?
08:17 Is this just like a once a, once a drive kind of player trying to
08:20 occasionally attack out of that.
08:22 And do they finally like trying to get into a real drop, big boy, drop back
08:26 passing game, let Tavon.
08:28 I mean, it's sounds, sounds dumb, but let Tavon cook almost like try and get,
08:33 try and let us see what can he do?
08:34 Can he, is he capable of dissecting a team?
08:37 Like I would say Louisville is probably, it would probably be in the top half of
08:41 the big 10, but like, it's going to be equivalent to some of these big tens of
08:43 teams you're going to see in terms of quality and against the defense like that
08:46 is Tavon good enough to really let loose and push your offense down field.
08:51 Cause if he is like, you might be able to win this game.
08:54 I would expect, I would go as far as say, I'm pretty sure Indiana's defense is
08:57 going to get the most points it's given up so far this year, because I don't
09:00 think they're holding Louisville under 23.
09:02 I think that Louisville offense is pretty good.
09:04 A lot of like, I mean, their biggest concern is just that Jack Plummer,
09:07 solid quarterback, but not amazing.
09:09 Like, I've noticed when I've watched his film, like he, he has a thing where
09:13 he has some good touch on passes.
09:15 He has the classic college advantage of being old.
09:17 He has played a lot of football, but he does not drive.
09:20 It's very weird.
09:21 And where's Tavon like, you know, drives the passes really strongly.
09:24 Tavon has like a zippy arm, kind of like every throw he has,
09:27 has a lot of velocity on it.
09:29 Jack Plummer really like floats a lot of his passes, which can
09:33 put some good touch on them, but also like gives corners and
09:36 safeties a really good chance to break on them as well.
09:38 Cause he is not much of a drive it in there kind of guy.
09:41 So I do think that that could be a little bit of a weak spot for Louisville, but.
09:45 Yeah.
09:46 I mean, how, do you have any way you're feeling about this game?
09:49 Do you, like, do you think Indiana's going to win?
09:50 I can just ask you straight up.
09:53 Well, in the, in the season preview that I wrote, I I'm looking back at this.
09:57 I said, Louisville 24, Indiana 17.
10:00 Um, I think that's going to be pretty close.
10:04 I don't think it's going to be some super high scoring game.
10:07 I think Indiana's defense has shown that it can keep Indiana in games.
10:14 Um, there is the big play threat that you mentioned, um, with Jordan and
10:18 thrash and some of those Louisville guys.
10:20 So they are capable of breaking off some big ones, which
10:23 could kind of skew the score.
10:25 I kind of get the feeling that Indiana loses a close one.
10:29 Um, maybe closer than 24, 17, as I predicted, you know, maybe something
10:34 like 28, 24, something like that.
10:38 Um, I think it's going to be pretty close.
10:41 I think kind of what we were talking about, I think Indiana has some depth
10:45 offensively to replace camper if he's out.
10:49 Um, I think we'll get a good read on where the offensive line actually is.
10:54 Um, this week, you know, I, I think they definitely were better expected,
10:59 better than expected against Ohio state week one, they were obviously just more
11:03 physically dominant against Indiana state week two.
11:06 Um, I think we'll get a good read on where they are.
11:10 Um, so yeah, I, I kind of the whole week I've been thinking about this one.
11:15 Um, I think it's going to be kind of similar to some of those losses.
11:18 Indiana had last year where they're in the game the whole time.
11:22 They have chances.
11:24 Um, and it just, it just flips the other way, kind of in the fourth quarter.
11:30 A good, surely Indiana fans are not experienced with brutal football losses
11:36 where it feels like they can win a game and don't, so, um, no, yeah, I would
11:40 probably go Louisville, like 27, Indiana 21.
11:43 I just think the Louisville offense, just, I don't know how Indiana, like I,
11:47 especially if campers out and just how little we've seen a meaningful games from
11:51 Tavon, I can't say that, like, they're going to be able to throw the ball and
11:55 push and create explosive explosive plays the same way Louisville's off.
12:00 It's I'm pretty sure will as good as Indiana's defense has played.
12:03 So I think that would be the difference in the game.
12:06 But like you said, if we have to come on here on Sunday and like say that, wow,
12:11 Indiana just came out there and won like 21 17, because their defense really sat
12:15 on Louisville the whole game is really impressive squad.
12:17 Like I, I'm not going to be shocked by that at all.
12:19 So yeah, I think like last week, I know we have to keep prefacing that it's
12:26 Indiana state, but 18 for 21 is, is, is pretty impressive accuracy from Tavon in
12:32 general.
12:32 Um, you know, even if wide receivers are wide open, you know, he's still hitting
12:37 them in stride.
12:37 So I think that was encouraging, especially after, um, week one against
12:42 Ohio state, I think it was one for five.
12:45 They didn't really seem confident in him throwing.
12:47 He didn't really seem confident in his reads.
12:49 I think kind of what Alan and Jackson both said this week was that, you know,
12:54 he, he's kind of just feeling more comfortable in the flow of a game, you
12:58 know, now that he's had a couple of games under his belt.
13:00 So I think the big thing with him is just limit mistakes.
13:04 Um, I think the defense, like we've said, is good enough to keep them in the
13:06 games, uh, get Jalen Lucas, some explosive looks.
13:11 And, uh, and I think it's going to be a close one.
13:15 No, yeah.
13:16 Bad offenses can look bad against anyone.
13:18 So it does matter that they, they look pretty good.
13:21 At least at the start, I had the low in the middle of the game, but yeah, they
13:25 at least like had showed some life on offense, which is pretty good.
13:28 Uh, switching over to basketball talk.
13:30 So the big topic of the day for Indiana fans was Xavier Johnson, who.
13:36 I am going to pull this up.
13:38 Basically it was written by Dylan Burkhardt, who runs umhoops.com.
13:42 And I I'm actually, I think I've talked to Dylan before.
13:45 I generally, I liked Dylan a good bit.
13:47 So, and not only him, but like this got a lot of people riled up online, but
13:50 where he's been ranking, he's essentially been ranking the top 25
13:54 players in the big 10 fans here.
13:55 He had Xavier Johnson ranked at 16th.
13:58 And then when he published his 15 through 11 yesterday.
14:02 So he goes down the list and gives AJ store, Dawson Garcia, Peyton Sanford,
14:06 Kelsey, Tommy, not Chelsea, Tommy Naga.
14:09 Always afraid.
14:09 I'm going to say that wrong.
14:10 And then a Spaldlin player for Penn state.
14:13 And then it was this paragraph in particular that got tweeted out
14:16 about a bunch of Indiana fans where he says last season's Atlantic 10 player
14:20 of the year and defensive player of the year Baldwin was only the fourth
14:22 player in the history to win both honors in the same season while Tyson
14:25 Walker, Boo Booey and Jameer Young are considered the league's top lead
14:29 guards entering the season.
14:30 It won't be a surprise to see Baldwin in the conversation by the season's end.
14:34 And I think that that upset in the end of the fence that is basically.
14:37 Boo, Tyson and Jameer are clearly ahead of Xavier Johnson.
14:41 So Jack, I can just ask you there.
14:44 What do you think of that take initially?
14:45 Yeah.
14:47 Um, I think I didn't have any problem with Tyson Walker or Jameer
14:52 Young being ahead of X.
14:54 I think, you know, Walker showed in March madness that, you know, he's
14:59 kind of that clutch late game chop maker that, you know, X is capable of, you
15:04 know, he kind of did it in that big 10 tournament run.
15:06 Um, I think Jameer Young, um, you know, proved last year that he's one of
15:13 the better guards in the big 10.
15:14 I think kind of after that is when it gets a little bit, a little bit, um, closer.
15:21 You know, I, I think Boo, like he's not a great defender.
15:27 He can surely create his own shot.
15:29 He can get to the basket, things like that.
15:31 Um, you know, I, I think that's kind of where, I think there's the one tier
15:37 with kind of Tyson and Jameer Young, and I would even put Terrence
15:39 Shannon in that group, I know he's not like a true point guard.
15:42 Um, but I've always been a big fan of Terrence Shannon and just kind of his
15:46 size and getting to the basket and everything.
15:48 Um, I thought it was like a little bit of an overreaction of people freaking out.
15:54 I think there's definitely fair concern to have with X coming off an injury.
16:00 Like that doesn't mean he's going to take a step back, but he hasn't played
16:04 basketball since mid December of last year.
16:07 Um, and I think there could be some, some growing pains with that in terms
16:12 of like 16th overall in the big 10.
16:14 I think he's, I, I think he's pretty safe to be like a second team, third
16:21 team, all big 10 guy, which would make him, um, you know, that would be at worst 15th.
16:27 So I think it might be a touch low, but, um, I didn't have, I honestly didn't
16:32 have as much of a problem as a lot of people seem to have.
16:36 Yeah.
16:37 I know quick apologies to anyone watching the video here on our website.
16:40 I keep moving around cause the lighting in my apartment can best be described as
16:44 horrid with how the, my placement from my apartment window to the sun.
16:48 So as well as my blinds.
16:50 So that, that, that just in case you're wondering why does Daniel
16:53 keep shifting his chair around?
16:54 That's your explanation.
16:55 Um, but, uh, no, I, so I think it's, I'm glad you mentioned boo.
17:00 So, because I thought about this, like when I was trying to think about
17:04 how we're going to talk about this, they both at the end of the 2022 season, X
17:09 had a really high opinion of everyone had a really high opinion of X cause
17:12 of like the 10 games stretch he had to close the year, like Indiana obviously
17:15 got hot at the end of the 22 season, built so much hype heading into 23.
17:19 And like your X's point totals in each of the last 10 games of the 2022 season,
17:24 16, 24, 24, 13, 18, 17, 13, 20, 10, 11, which I mean, again, I'll be the first
17:31 person to help you that like point just raw points per game does not mean
17:35 that end all be all and that's what, like he had not, he really just kind of tore
17:39 up, he was not scoring like that to start the season in 2022, we just kind of really
17:43 kicked into gear at the end of that season.
17:45 So, and we're like recency bias is a very strong thing.
17:49 We remember that it's why March Madness matters so much to people, either for
17:53 got entering the next season or in the draft is because sometimes even if it's
17:56 wrong, it's just, that's what you remember.
17:58 Everyone was watching.
17:59 It's the last thing we saw.
18:00 And likewise, after X obviously misses pretty much most of last doesn't have a
18:05 great first 11 games and misses most of the year with the injury.
18:08 He, so people don't really have too much of that recollection of X versus this is
18:13 boo booey during the eight and two stretch of a little bit past the midway
18:16 point of the season last year.
18:17 Not, it didn't go into March Madness, but it was the eight and two stretch
18:20 Northwestern had in big 10 play where they beat, they beat Purdue, they'd month
18:24 ratings, had the five game win streak beat Indiana.
18:26 Like it was one, like the Northwestern rise was happening last season.
18:30 And here are booze point totals.
18:31 Cause he actually started the year shooting really terribly from three, but
18:34 then during this eight and two stretch had 20 points, 17 points, 21 points, 20
18:39 points, 23 points, 13 points, 19 points, 26 points, 21 points, 23 points, and 35
18:45 points against Illinois.
18:46 And that's, that's what most people remember.
18:49 Cause like, they don't, they don't remember then him having terrible shooting
18:52 games or like not playing great in the big 10 tournament against Penn state.
18:55 Like all they're going to remember is yeah.
18:58 For those 10 games, when everyone was watching big 10 basketball,
19:01 boo was lighting it up.
19:02 And like they were right.
19:04 So that's at least my take.
19:05 It's like, I think so many of these guys are similar.
19:08 Cause you look at them like X is offset pit and transferred here.
19:12 Tyson Walker's in his third year at Michigan state after transferring from
19:15 Northeastern Jameers in the second year at Maryland, after transferring up from
19:18 Charlotte, Ace Baldwin, the guy who is it, who was like in the thing that Dylan
19:23 wrote is like the first guy being discussed.
19:24 He's just a new player at Penn city, just transfer from DCU.
19:27 Boo Boo is the only one who stayed at Northwestern all these years.
19:30 And even then like, Boo was much more aligned his first three years
19:34 before he kind of got sick.
19:35 They're all the same kind of player, but they're just, they're older guards
19:38 with a lot of experience.
19:40 We're all going to be pretty solid.
19:41 And I get that.
19:42 It's the reason we have job parses that rankings are fun.
19:45 It's fun to get worked up about those.
19:47 But I also agree with you that just like someone's saying X is a
19:51 little bit worse to these guys.
19:52 I did not feel like should be a huge deal just because I'm like, they're all around
19:55 the same level of player.
19:56 I think, I don't think it's crazy to say these are all roughly the same value player.
20:01 Right.
20:02 And I think kind of where it becomes difficult to compare them directly is like,
20:09 I don't think anyone doubts that Xavier Johnson is like a much better defender.
20:13 Then Boo or Tyson Walker.
20:16 Like I at least should be because I think.
20:19 Well, at least, and I, I'm not going to say, cause I've told you this.
20:23 I want to watch a lot of film on all these guys and make sure I would, if I was
20:26 writing these, I have rights.
20:27 Like, I'm not going to confidently say for a hundred percent, sure.
20:29 X is the better defender, but he would at least appear six.
20:32 This is notable that all these guys like Ace Baldwin, six feet flat, Boo, Tyson,
20:37 and, um, Jameer are like just over six feet.
20:40 X is a legit six, three, 200.
20:42 Like X is the biggest of them by far.
20:43 So that you continue, but yeah, that is not an X is like.
20:46 He is closer to like X is the, one of the only guys on this, though, that five who
20:51 you could trust to maybe guard up against a wing in the possession versus the others.
20:54 Like they can't do that.
20:55 Right.
20:56 And I think you saw last year, you know, it w it was hard to tell, but I think
21:03 Indiana did the, the, the Johnson injury was weird because I think overall it made
21:10 Indiana a worse team, but at the same time, it allowed Jalen Huchifino to kind of.
21:15 Maximize his potential.
21:16 So it's kind of a, an interesting way to look at it, but I think defensively you
21:21 saw in so many games last year, like Iowa and state, even Miami, like in the NCAA
21:27 tournament, if Indiana didn't have it's, you know, bulldog defender, whatever you
21:33 want to call it to pick up the ball at half court and kind of make things
21:38 uncomfortable.
21:39 And I think that has real value.
21:40 That's why I do have a good, big, the big shot.
21:44 The end of that is like trade defendant.
21:45 Well, they probably would have had an ex on it.
21:46 Right.
21:47 That too.
21:48 And so I think defensively he has an edge over a lot of these guys and I haven't seen
21:54 as much ace Baldwin as some of these other guys, obviously he won defensive player of
21:58 the year, but I think it kind of comes down to like, what do you value and who do you
22:03 have on the rest of your team in terms of like who you would rather have?
22:08 Like, I think if you're Michigan state and you have other shot makers and stuff, like
22:15 that's why, or sorry, not Michigan state, Northwestern, like last year, like
22:20 Audiz and some other guys.
22:22 I think there's reason like that just roster fit kind of affects how you look at
22:30 like, who's better, who's, who's not.
22:32 So, yeah, I think, I think overall, like I didn't have a huge problem with kind of
22:39 where those, where those rankings were.
22:41 I think it's fair to wonder like how X is going to be coming off injury.
22:44 But I also think it is easy to forget like how good he'd been in some stretches.
22:50 And yeah, there's kind of the turnover issues and stuff sometimes.
22:54 But I, yeah, I really think after Walker, Shannon and, and Jameer Young, there's
23:02 kind of a big group of guys that are really hard to kind of decipher between.
23:06 It's so weird hearing you say Terrence Shinnick.
23:09 Cause I remember when I was at Liberty Bell, I was a sophomore in college doing a draft
23:13 preview podcast on him at Texas Tech.
23:15 The fact that that guy is still in college is fascinating because he was going to, he
23:19 was going to get drafted.
23:20 Like, it's not like a guy who should have left.
23:22 No, Terrence Shinnick Jr.
23:23 was going to get drafted each and every year he could have left.
23:26 I don't know why he keeps staying, but yeah, like my main point.
23:32 No, he is good.
23:32 It's confusing.
23:33 I'm like, how much is he like, why is he, why is he still here?
23:37 But, but I was just going to, my main point was just, I don't think any of them should
23:43 be surprised X, even if you're, it might be a hundred percent true that X is better
23:47 than all these guys and should be ahead of them.
23:50 And this is wrong.
23:50 I don't think you should be surprised to see that.
23:52 Cause I think it was Zach Lowe at ESPN said once when describing the NBA playoffs
23:56 and how reactionary thing was, there's like, feels like all everyone from media
24:00 to fans, the coaches, players, everyone almost has like those, the recency based
24:04 like monkey brains, where it's just every single thing is just our new lesson, our
24:08 new like takeaways, whatever just happened.
24:10 And what just happened last year was Boo Booey exploded.
24:14 It came back for his fifth year, savior of Northwestern had the game winner,
24:18 helped them beat Purdue, all this stuff.
24:19 So everyone's going to be all in on him or like Tyson again, Michigan State's
24:23 only big 10 team make the sweet 16.
24:24 Everyone's going to be all in on Tyson.
24:26 This is considered a good as a team again, like a national contender.
24:29 So they're all going to be in on him.
24:31 Like all that stuff, like since it just happened and it's what people remember,
24:36 they're all going to think that those guys are better than X to a guy who they
24:38 haven't, who have, they haven't seen basically play like if X plays at his
24:43 best, he's probably better than those guys, but they haven't seen that.
24:45 They would probably say since in the basically two years, since the end of
24:48 the 22 season, because like he only had the 11 games last year and he was not
24:52 amazing during those first 11 games.
24:54 And I would say just Indiana fans and other people watching big
24:57 tension, not freak out if X comes out, especially in his first 10 games.
25:00 Doesn't look great.
25:01 Not only cause like he's coming off injury, but more importantly, he's their
25:05 whole team is going to be completely different.
25:07 Like the whole identity of the team last year was give the ball
25:09 the trace, let him figure it out.
25:11 So you kind of, and like, we've talked about so much how.
25:15 Their spacing could be a real big issue to start the season.
25:17 They're starting Cole, Malik Renaud and McKenzie and Baco, all those
25:22 three positions could have a lot of shooting issues.
25:24 They're taught you've written about how Trey, it's a big thing for Trey
25:27 Galloway this year to shoot, to not just like he was an accurate shooter last year.
25:30 But now he has to start taking a lot of shots and get defenses
25:32 to really treat them like that.
25:34 And they're like, we know X has some good shooting percentages, but he has a slower
25:37 release, not a huge volume shooter.
25:39 Like X is an incapable shooter, but he's also not a threatening shooter particularly.
25:43 So I, the, just like stuff like that, like it could look, they could have a lot of
25:48 edges to rough out in the first few games.
25:50 X doesn't look as good.
25:52 And then everyone's like, Oh, look at this.
25:53 Like we were right.
25:54 X wasn't that good.
25:55 But then maybe he kicks it back and we see another 10 game stretch.
25:58 Like he had done the 22 season where it looked like he was the one of the best
26:01 players on the court every single time.
26:03 It was just dominating.
26:04 Yeah.
26:04 And I think that's a good point because at the, like the reason he played so well
26:10 from my perspective, like at the end of that 22 season was because him and Trace
26:15 just really became comfortable with each other and the pick and roll.
26:19 And it almost seemed like they knew what the other one was going
26:22 to do three steps before they did.
26:25 And kind of last year you saw in the first 11 games, like, you know, Indiana
26:31 was trying to work kind of the two guard lineup with X and Jalen.
26:35 And there were a few games that Jalen was out and he was hurt.
26:38 And I know Tom, our Tom Brewer, our boss, like you, he had a story about this, how,
26:43 you know, if you look back, like Jalen and X really didn't play a ton with each
26:47 other just because each of them had injuries.
26:49 So I think those first 11 games are kind of tough to judge in terms of like.
26:54 What did this production really mean?
26:57 How much can we really value this from X?
27:01 And so I kind of think going back to your point, it's going to be interesting
27:07 to see how he meshes with the rest of the team.
27:09 Obviously, he's played with Galloway before, but everyone else is pretty much new.
27:12 Like he barely played with Malik Renu, like kind of that Xavier game and was
27:17 maybe one or two others are really the only like high profile, I guess,
27:22 that Arizona game too.
27:24 And like in most, it was almost exclusively non-conference, which is where
27:28 we're mainly again, like, why do people remember like no one watched Northwestern
27:33 non-conference play last year.
27:34 Right.
27:34 I can guarantee you no one was watching that.
27:36 And Boo was actually very much struggling during that.
27:39 But people remember Big Ten play in this Zayt, which X pretty much missed all of
27:44 and versus like Boo was one of the breakout stars of Big Ten plays as, as was
27:49 Tyson, as was Jameer.
27:50 Like those people who were like scrolling every week to watch Big Ten basketball,
27:54 like past the new year last season, we're all seeing those guys versus like Indiana.
27:59 Like they were seeing Jalen Hodge-Sofino, they were seeing, seeing Trace Jackson Davis.
28:02 They, I guarantee you, if you ask like more casual fans who were not like
28:08 locked in on Indiana, if they didn't turn on their TV last year and didn't see X on
28:12 there, they probably assumed, Oh, that kid must've graduated, you know?
28:15 Like, cause they're not paying attention as much as like, it's weird.
28:17 Like it's, so that's just my point is like, I think it could be very much the case
28:22 that X proves himself that he's better than these other guards he's listed in.
28:25 But I just also think people, they realize this is what happens when a guy misses
28:29 injury, other guys break out and that's just what they remember most recently.
28:32 Right.
28:33 And I think the one kind of looking at these lists more, the rankings that you're
28:38 talking about, I think the one that I maybe had the biggest issue with is a new
28:42 guy, AJ Storer coming in from St.
28:46 John's he's on Wisconsin now.
28:48 I think if you look at these predictions or these rankings from like a, from like a
28:53 prediction perspective, like he has Chucky Hepburn, Connor Esigen, Tyler Wall, Stephen
28:59 Crowell on his team.
29:00 I don't think he's going to be like the go-to guy.
29:04 I've seen some, you know, I've watched him a little bit, like after he transferred,
29:08 but obviously I haven't seen him on as nearly as a consistent basis, but I don't
29:13 see him as someone stepping in and averaging double figures or, or, you know, being the
29:18 go-to guy when you have these four guys who all played with each other last year.
29:22 Whereas when you look at it from X's perspective, like he's going to be running
29:26 the show for Indiana and unless, you know, Mackenzie Mbaka is, you know, the best
29:32 freshman in the country or Kalel Ware taps all the way into his potential and is, you
29:39 know, the best case scenario type season for him, like X is going to be the guy that
29:45 Indiana is going to look to both defensively and running the offense.
29:48 So I guess looking at, looking at the rankings from that, I guess if I had a big
29:53 gripe, it would probably be that one just from a, a view of like what I think those,
29:59 those seasons will look like this year from like a usage standpoint.
30:03 Yeah.
30:04 I can't say I know enough that AJ's store to confidently say, Oh, that's like, I
30:07 think it's very much again, like there's a reason it was the guards that got a lot
30:10 of people talking because everyone remembers those guards.
30:12 Like those, so that was like a very easy comparison point against X.
30:16 And, but no, I think it's very fair that like, there's a good chance Indiana's
30:20 identity this whole year is based a lot in X and Trey Galloway.
30:24 It's those two, like, and how, how did they fit?
30:27 Cause like we've talked about, and I know I've mentioned to you a lot, how my
30:30 concerns with the spacing that line up, like, well, they have to bench one of
30:33 Maliga or Kelo later in the season.
30:34 If the spacing is just that bad and who do you put it, but like the two guys who we
30:39 know are pretty much unless they get injured or suddenly become the worst
30:43 basketball players ever are not getting benched or X and Galloway, like they're
30:46 locked in, they're the guys that this is essentially their team.
30:50 So yeah, no, I think it's all fair.
30:52 Anything else you want to add on X before we wrap things up here, Jack?
30:55 Oh, no, I think we're good.
30:56 I think, you know, we could dive even further into X in some future episodes,
31:01 kind of as the season gets closer.
31:03 Cause I realized yesterday, it's like, we're about six weeks away from
31:07 exhibition, which is pretty exciting.
31:08 We just got that email saying that when to be there for media days.
31:11 Yeah.
31:11 Yeah.
31:12 That's next week.
31:12 So, so basketball coming up, football, at least it looks like, you know, should be
31:19 a telling game on Saturday and, you know, a lot to still learn about this team.
31:24 Yeah.
31:25 So thank you all so much for listening to us as Jack was saying, there will
31:28 probably have as basketball season gets closer, a lot more previews on like what
31:32 to expect from this team and what to expect from specific players like X, like
31:35 Galloway, like everyone on this team, especially a lot of the newcomers who you
31:38 guys probably want to know a lot about.
31:39 And as you, well, pretty much all know they're playing on Saturday
31:44 against Louisville at Lucas Oil.
31:45 Make sure to watch that game and follow all our coverage here on hoosiersnow.com.
31:49 For Jack Ankeny, I am Daniel Olinger.
31:52 and just thank you all for listening to the Hoosier Roundtable podcast.