Hoosier Roundtable: Indiana vs Indiana State Recap, Should Tayven Jackson Start Full-Time?
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00:00 Hello everybody and welcome to the Hoosier Roundtable podcast.
00:04 My name is Daniel Olinger. I work for Hoosiersnow.com and I'm joined by my co-host Jack Ankeny.
00:09 Jack, how are you doing today?
00:11 Doing well Daniel. How about you?
00:13 I'm doing better than Indiana State who hasn't scored a single point on offense in two weeks of college football.
00:22 As most of you probably saw last night, Indiana beat Indiana State 41-7 inside Memorial Stadium.
00:28 It was so clear from the jump how overmatched Indiana State was in that game.
00:34 We said, "Oh wait, that's a bad FCS team. Indiana's not losing that game."
00:38 Of all the games on the schedule you can mark down an Indiana win for, it was the one.
00:43 But I did not expect it.
00:45 Indiana had it on cruise control after the first quarter, but just come out with three straight drives,
00:49 got 21-0 right away, looked unbelievably easy just how much better they were than them.
00:54 Do you even have that many takeaways from last night's game given the level of competition Indiana was facing?
01:02 Yeah, I mean we can get into the quarterbacks later because I think that's the main takeaway.
01:07 But kind of aside from that, I guess we can knock out the rest of that.
01:10 I do think when you're playing an opponent that is clearly not physically as capable as Indiana, I guess is...
01:22 When you're playing an opponent that is bad.
01:26 It was good to see that Indiana was able to control both lines of scrimmages pretty easily.
01:34 Create some big running lanes for Jalen Lucas. He had the two 25-yard touchdowns right off the bat.
01:40 So I think it's promising what we've seen from the offensive line, both versus Ohio State and Indiana State.
01:47 The defensive line I think has looked great both weeks too. Credit to Tom Allen.
01:52 I think he's done a good job in the portal getting guys like Andre Carter, Lanell Carr, Phillip Leidy, Marcus Burris.
01:58 A bunch of portal guys that have really come in and made an impact.
02:03 Nick Toomer had the interception last night on kind of a jump ball play that was really less of a...
02:09 I think me or you could have picked that off.
02:12 It was a four-down and the Indiana State quarterback just on four-down decided to launch it into triple coverage.
02:18 I think both you were sitting next to me and a few of our other friends in the press box.
02:22 And I think I heard four different people as the ball left his hand said, "Oh, that's an interception."
02:27 Triple coverage, no doubt about it, that's getting picked off.
02:31 Yeah, so it wasn't a play where you had to make some crazy read or some super athletic play.
02:38 I think when you have games like this, it's good to see, you know, Indiana meet expectations and not really mess around.
02:45 Because the game, like you said, was pretty clear that it was not going to be competitive right away.
02:52 I think if you have any concerns from this game, it might be that Indiana has been kind of sloppy with some penalties.
03:00 They had a couple running into the kickers yesterday that didn't end up really being hurtful.
03:07 But Tom Allen was pretty clearly upset with those, called them silly and ridiculous, but he thinks they're fixable.
03:15 I guess that's kind of the negative that you might take away is that they've just been a little bit sloppy in that regard,
03:20 but it didn't really hurt them at all.
03:22 So I don't know how much of a negative it can really be.
03:26 Those were kind of my main – and Omar Cooper, we got to mention him.
03:30 He over 100 receiving yards.
03:33 Good to see him break out when Cam Kamper and EJ Williams went out.
03:38 It doesn't sound like we're going to get much injury explanation really at any point this year.
03:43 Allen is kind of using those pregame reports as a way to not discuss injuries throughout the season, which I guess I understand.
03:54 But I guess a little frustrating from our perspective, but that's all right.
03:59 But, yeah, it was good to see Omar Cooper play well.
04:02 I guess those would be the main non-quarterback takeaways.
04:06 Indiana threw for 344 yards.
04:09 Indiana State only threw for 21 yards in this game.
04:13 Yeah, and what was the stat?
04:15 558 to 93.
04:17 Yeah, I think that's crazy.
04:20 Yeah, it's so hard to take away anything from this game.
04:23 The defense did exactly what it should do.
04:25 Again, if Jaylon Lucas doesn't fumble and gets returned by the Indiana State defender for the touchdown,
04:31 it was going to be a shutout then.
04:33 The defense, exactly what we thought based off a really good week one game against Ohio State,
04:39 holding them to 23, completely just crushed an opponent who was overmatched.
04:45 I mean, I don't want to say for real, this team's defense is a legitimately good Big Ten defense,
04:50 like upper half of the conference Big Ten defense just yet.
04:54 But if they come out against Louisville next week and put the clamps on again,
04:58 I would say at the very least hold them under 30 points,
05:01 so that's in the range where your offense should play well enough to win you the game.
05:06 Then I'm ready to say, yeah, this defense is maybe not a 2019, 2020 level good for Indiana,
05:13 but clearly a quality unit that you can win with.
05:16 So I think at this point, it's fair to say that the defense is good enough that games like Rutgers,
05:28 maybe even Maryland, Illinois, Purdue, Michigan State,
05:32 I think the defense is good enough at this point that you can say that those are winnable games.
05:36 Not that Indiana is going to win all those games for sure,
05:39 or that they're going to hold all those teams to, you know, 14 points.
05:43 But I think they've shown traits that they can be good enough to keep Indiana competitive in those types of games.
05:50 I just want to mention on Illinois, because they also played last night, lost to Kansas 34-23.
05:55 They were down 31-7. I think a lot of that's like, I've watched Kansas a lot this year.
05:59 That's a really good team. Their Lance Leopold's offense is sick.
06:02 So don't want to say too much away from that.
06:05 But after like Illinois had the number one scoring defense in the country last year,
06:08 and they've given up over 28 points and then 34 points, like Illinois' defense isn't what it was last year.
06:15 I do think their offense is a little better because Luke Altmeier, their quarterback,
06:18 looks way more spry than any quarterback they've had in a long time there.
06:21 He actually kind of has some juice. So that's like, yeah, you're right.
06:24 No, that's definitely a game I look at like, hey, if Indiana's defense holds like an OK Illinois offense under control,
06:30 their defense is amazing. They just need to get like three touchdowns maybe in the game.
06:34 It's probably a win. So it is encouraging to think that like this defense keeps them in so many of these games.
06:40 It's against the Big Ten teams that we don't think are amazing.
06:43 But yeah, I think we should just I mean, that's what we talked about, like after the game, too.
06:48 There's not a lot to talk about this game besides the quarterbacks because there's just there's so little to learn from what everything else happened.
06:56 They were so clearly better than them. Obviously, everyone's going to want it to be Taven after this game.
07:01 He started the team three quick drives, three quick touchdowns right away.
07:06 I do think it's a little unfair to Soresby that his probably one of his best drives got killed by a J.
07:10 Lucas fumble. That wasn't his fault. I mean, he was nine for sixteen one hundred and eight yards, ran pretty well at twenty eight yards,
07:17 like perfectly fine game when Taven throws 18 for twenty one for two hundred thirty six yards and runs in a touchdown like everyone's going to want him to be QB one.
07:26 And I think I was talking with you about this, too, last night, like I just have a problem with the process.
07:32 They're going back here where and I understand Tom Allen said he didn't want to have to do this, where they kind of like, oh, like we don't know who the star is yet.
07:41 And we're going to use these first two games to figure it out and stuff like that.
07:44 I realize he said he didn't want to that he would have preferred if one of them emerged.
07:48 But you also have to know who's on your schedule and that these are the two games you're going to learn the least from.
07:53 Ohio State, who both quarterbacks were going to look bad against Ohio State, no matter what, who, which one you picked.
07:59 And then both quarterbacks were going to look really good against Indiana State, no matter which one you pick.
08:03 Like, I just you don't learn anything from that. So it's really my my problem with the decision making.
08:08 I would be shocked if it's not Taven starting against Louisville.
08:11 He told us there's going to be one starter against them and it feels like it has to be him after that game.
08:17 Yeah, I think so. And I think it's more of a result of what Taven did than like I don't think Sorsby did anything to necessarily lose the job.
08:26 You know, you see nine for 16 and I think a handful of those incompletions were late in the game.
08:31 He missed Omar Cooper on the one.
08:33 He started 11 for 11 in the first half. I know that for sure.
08:36 Yeah. So I think it was less that that Sorsby did anything super negative.
08:42 I think it was more that Taven just the offense looked a bit more smooth. He led those three consecutive touchdown drives to start the game.
08:52 So I think it is pretty, pretty clear that he'll start against Louisville.
08:57 You know, they're going to go back and Alan said he didn't really want to rush a decision after the game just based on what he saw live.
09:04 I'm pretty sure if Taven doesn't start next Saturday, the Indiana fans would like kill him.
09:12 I guess as far as the process, I get what you're saying. I think I think it's tough when when you have a game where Ohio State is arguably your toughest opponent and Indiana State is arguably your weakest opponent.
09:32 I don't know. Arguably weakest. Yeah, I know. Yeah, probably not even arguable.
09:37 I guess the reason why I said that is because maybe you think Michigan or Penn State is better.
09:41 But the point remains, I don't think you are going I don't think the quarterback decision was going to determine a win or loss versus Ohio State or Indiana State.
09:55 I think those results were pretty much determined.
09:58 I don't think if you played Taven the entire game against Ohio State, you are going to win that game.
10:06 So I understand the thinking you you have two quarterbacks that have really never played college football.
10:13 You want to give them both a fair chance in a live setting.
10:18 So I get that. But to your point, how much are you how much can you really take away from Taven carving up Indiana State?
10:28 You know, if if Sorsby played the entire game against Indiana State, could he have put up the same numbers that Taven did?
10:33 Yes. I mean, I think it's fair to look at it that way.
10:38 From a skills perspective, I think Taven has a little bit of an advantage of an advantage as a runner.
10:44 I think he's a little bit quicker, as we've discussed. I think Sorsby is still a pretty solid runner, though.
10:51 It's just about the creating in the passing. I think they can both run the option like they're both capable of that.
10:57 It's just that we saw Taven escape the pocket a few times. That's a nice place.
11:01 But I don't think mobility is really a separating factor.
11:04 No, no. And I think it was intriguing to see Taven was the 18 for 21 last night.
11:12 You know, that's obviously, you know, we've talked about Indiana State's not a great opponent, but 18 of 21 is still good against anyone.
11:20 So I think that was intriguing to see Taven take a step forward passing wise.
11:26 That's also not to say that you want to have some huge takeaway.
11:30 He's an amazing passer now because you want 18 for 21 against Indiana State.
11:34 There's still going to be some ups and downs, I think, are reasonable to expect with him as a passer.
11:41 That being said, I think he's done enough to win the job.
11:45 Have you ever seen like an animal dead on the side of the road or on the road and you just like, oh, there's nothing there?
11:52 Yeah, I think so. Dead like no, it's just maybe it's like squirrel, but it's dead.
11:58 This feels like just ever coming to the conclusion that Taven Jackson is definitively better than Brendan Soresby because he hit the dance.
12:06 He like we've asked him to drive a car and run over the dead animal on the road again.
12:10 Like, oh, yeah. Like Taven Jackson lit up Indiana State. He must be better.
12:14 I just I just have such trouble taking away so many lessons from this game because I don't know what Indiana State does well, what the competition was there at all.
12:26 So, yeah, like I I do think you have to start Taven just based on those two weeks.
12:31 Like, you know, you're going to have to because he did look slightly better against Indiana State.
12:36 But I I just don't I just don't see how you can draw like any lessons from.
12:40 Yeah. Running over one of the worst teams I've seen in person.
12:44 No, that's fair. I guess my question, what I would ask you, because you've talked about how, you know, the process of deciding and stuff is like.
12:54 Indiana can't change that they're playing Ohio State and Indiana State in the first two weeks.
12:58 So I don't know if they could have really approached the situation much differently.
13:04 I guess I might say I think you should have a determined starter then just so it's not like if the and I know I get what you're saying about the schedule.
13:13 Like we talked about that, too. It's like they don't determine the fact they open the year against Ohio State.
13:18 But it's not like they didn't know that ahead of time. Like the schedule wasn't a surprise.
13:21 They they knew they would have this predicament where their first two games are going to be against a top five team and an automatic win.
13:29 And then they would have one of those, as we've said, like those crucial like six games or so that are toss ups almost on their schedule coming up third.
13:36 Like this is a big game against Louisville coming up.
13:38 But they it's it's a winnable game like Louisville's going to be favored, but they are perfectly beatable.
13:43 So you really need to know something from that. And I just if maybe it's not even like how they went about it.
13:50 I just want to know internally if they thought Taven was better all along, but just couldn't fully like, you know, say that and wanted to give Brendan a chance to just just see if he might be better than that.
14:02 I'm actually OK with because that means I just don't want them.
14:06 I would be really concerned if the determining factor behind Taven Jackson being the season one starter was annihilating Indiana State.
14:15 Like, I'm hoping that there was internally they were favoring Taven like 60 to 40 and just wanted to make sure.
14:21 And like you said, knowing that whoever they played wouldn't impact the results by the first few games, but they just want to give Brendan a chance, but always thought it was going to be Taven.
14:30 Then I'm OK with that because that's like mainly what I'm getting at.
14:34 It's just like, yeah, I don't want to I just don't want the equation to be like when like when like, you know, you're turning your test answer and says explain your reasoning.
14:42 I don't want Tom Allen's answer to be because Taven Jackson threw for over 200 yards in this Indiana State.
14:48 It should be you need a different reason besides that. Like there has to be. Oh, we saw this in practice.
14:53 We saw this on his tape. We thought he was better, but we thought Brendan played well enough to deserve a chance.
14:57 Wanted to see if he lit it up and games didn't look better than Taven.
15:01 So we're sticking with Taven that that's fine. And I just I if you get what I'm saying, like, yeah, no, I do.
15:07 Lesson no lesson. No one should come away from Indiana State thinking they know more about more about their football team. Really that much.
15:14 Right. No, I agree with that. And I do think like it seems like on a lot of the fan response is that they thought that the whole quarterback competition was some sort of deception by Tom Allen to keep opponents guessing.
15:29 I genuinely think that they didn't know or or maybe that they thought, you know, maybe they think one quarterback is slightly better than the other, but they weren't ready to really make a definitive decision.
15:44 So they wanted to give both a chance at the same time. How much of a takeaway can you have against Indiana State, to your point?
15:52 But I think the bottom line is against Louisville, you have to make a decision. So whether or not you think you have all the data to conclusively say that Taven is better, that might not be the case.
16:06 But I think you have to make a decision going into Louisville, because I don't think either quarterback likes the flip flopping nature of alternating.
16:15 I don't think Allen likes that. I don't think Bell likes that. And it's very possible that Taven doesn't play well against Louisville.
16:23 Maybe you give Brendan a chance against Akron and and he lights it up and then you think, oh, maybe we were wrong about it.
16:31 You know, I think it's possible that they named Taven the starter and it's not 100 percent certain that he's better.
16:39 You see, it's I would I think if you are going to name the starter and what in all likelihood Taven as a starter, definitely not against Louisville, unless it's like a five interception half disaster kind of thing.
16:51 You cannot you cannot then immediately as if Taven looks bad to start that game playing a real opponent this week instead of Indiana State, you can't immediately like you have to then like try and ride with him because you can't do this all season.
17:03 We just like, no, I agree with that, too. I guess I'm just saying that to your point, you said that.
17:10 You can't that carving up Indiana State should not tell you that Taven Jackson is better.
17:15 So I'm just saying in response to that, that I think it's still possible that.
17:21 Because of that, you don't know that he's better because, you know, you know what I'm saying?
17:26 Like, I think you do have to stick with one and ride it out, but I think it has been close to the point where, you know, I'm what I would say I'm 75, 80 percent sure that Taven is the right choice.
17:40 But I, you know. How much can you really take away from Indiana State?
17:46 Thankfully, this doesn't get more complicated.
17:48 You know, if a starting quarterback from the previous year who everyone loves coming back, probably midseason and if the offense isn't going well, then definitely like everyone will want him to start.
17:58 Right. Yeah. It's just a whole. It's why it's why everyone hates the two quarterback system or the constant quarterback competition thinks it's just like it's the most important position in sports.
18:09 You really need to have like a guy and just like rule with it.
18:13 Like it's such a problem. Like, again, from this past week, read how frustrated everyone is in Ohio State.
18:19 They said it was going to be a two quarterback system in their game. Then they barely played Devin Brown.
18:22 But now they all want it to be Devin Brown. Like when you just don't name the starter and stick with him, it can be such a problem.
18:28 Just because like every single like drive that doesn't go well feels like a chance for that to happen.
18:34 No, yeah, I would definitely expect to see Taven out there against Louisville again, like unless the only time I can remember like really validly feeling coach need to turn back on their quarterback starting decision and change it was when I was at Northwestern.
18:48 I think it was, I want to say 2021 yeah 100 Johnson, like the quarterback then time had been the starter had an okay for first few games everyone thought he was doing well, but then at Duke he through, I want to say, for first half interceptions, just complete meltdown and then got
19:06 benched and did not pull back in and they did look better than that. It needs to be that level where it's like, oh wait Taven's completely falling apart now like it's right.
19:15 If Taven throws an interception and like they only score three points in the first half against Louisville, that would suck. I also don't think you should just pull Taven then like, well, yeah, unless he's actively killing you like every single pass is being intercepted
19:29 and if he, if he looks like either the Indiana State quarterbacks did on Friday. Yes, but like, if he's just kind of like bad or below average like he kind of just got to ride it then no I and I agree and I guess my point about the flip flopping for the Akron game is that it would have to be something severe, you know, I think they should stick with Taven and let him kind of work through some problems if he has some.
19:54 Yeah, I mean to your point, there is that kind of looming possibility with Dexter.
20:00 Alan has said, you know, throughout the offseason that he's that he's ahead of schedule. He could return mid season maybe a couple weeks before it kind of seems like maybe that Michigan game.
20:12 October 14 that's after the bi week.
20:16 It kind of seems like it might be, you know, the the first potential return date. If, if everything is still going to plan.
20:26 And I don't think we can really say now like whether or not, Indiana should just hand them the job I think Taven, if he plays, if he beats Louisville if he beats Akron.
20:37 I think it, I think you stick with him until things get disastrous.
20:44 I'm not saying they will but I think it's, I think it would be tough to just hand it right back to Dexter after you go through this whole process, especially if you beat Louisville and you beat Akron, and maybe even Maryland too.
21:00 I mean it's a good problem to have like Taven is doing well so obviously I'm not I'm sure Indiana would be fine with that but yeah I will say that like it is against Akron maybe not even just the flip flopping.
21:13 I mean it's like Akron is not good. Akron is still a lot better than Indiana State it's a real team that they have to play against but uh no I think just kind of moving off of that like they, they did what they should have done against Indiana State
21:25 like I my score prediction was like 21 zero and that was way too low because I mean I was right about the defense like yeah that dominant against them again should have been a shout out.
21:35 And, but like I, I was worried their offense might be like completely dead on arrival this season, and maybe maybe Indiana State's defense really is just that bad Indiana doesn't crack like 20 points the rest of the season but they at least like you know,
21:50 they can move the ball fees there was no problem there, guys are running all over the place.
21:56 So yeah, like,
21:59 I don't think this proves anything about their team, at least from the fact that it was a comfortable win which is what you want to see. That's about what there is to say.
22:06 Yeah, I mean I think any game like this, when it's pretty clear that just the, the level of play is different. I think all you really look for is did Indiana do what it should have done.
22:21 And I think that's a pretty resounding yes.
22:25 You know they were able to run the ball at will.
22:28 It should have been a shout out like you said, everything pretty much went to plan, you know, I, it was funny like when we were in the elevator going back up to the press box we heard the call in radio show after and someone was complaining that they didn't
22:44 pull away.
22:46 It was 24 to seven for too long and it's like if that's what you're complaining about, because Indiana State had a you know five minute drive in Indiana had a long drive.
22:58 If that's the complaint, you know, I think it's a pretty, pretty, pretty solid game for like a dad like a dad mad is mad at his son for not dunking on his younger brother harder, like you should, he should be crying right now is it's fine like yeah the Lucas
23:14 fumble and a few of the drives in the middle of the game were stupid and Tom out, that's time for Tom Allen to deal with it's like guys like we're gonna beat them by 60 years to do those stupid things sure.
23:24 But also is that like if, if anyone has strong emotional opinions about Indiana, in Indiana State being stuck at 24 to seven for a while like I, I think, think you may need some help like this I think that's one to put on them.
23:38 One last thing I forgot to mention I think we should have touched on was the offensive line situation I know you pointed this out to me, Jack. Yeah, Carter Smith was starting most of the first half at left tackle but then we saw Josh sales come back in there and I think was it Bedford
23:52 who went left the game for a bit. Yeah, so I think what so sales started at left tackle against Ohio State, but Carter Smith ended up playing most of the game.
24:02 And then last night, Friday night, Smith started at left tackle.
24:10 And then I think sales played maybe the whole second, I think he came in the second half and then Bedford started at right guard, which was a little bit surprising in week one but they, because he was kind of more traditionally a tackle and Cleo Benson
24:25 was more traditionally a guard Bedford played the first half against Indiana State, and then they brought in Max longman, who didn't play against Ohio State because he was injured.
24:36 And I think they kind of just used last night as a chance to say because like we saw like Vinny Fia Fia cable and Bray Lynch and a couple other guys come in I think they just use last night to kind of get some reps for a lot of guys.
24:51 But it does seem like the offensive line is unsettled, I, I don't think that they have the five that they're that they want to stick with yet. I think maybe they're still debating between Smith and sales for left tackle and.
25:09 And Alan mentioned, he was kind of in his radio show he said he said something like you know one of our veteran linemen was a little bit banged up against Ohio State and I think he was referring to Bedford, just to kind of read between the lines there.
25:24 Like you could have a pistol Tom Allen's head and he won't tell you, you won't reveal anything for competitive edge no I think I think it's what you were we were kind of wrote about in the preseason was that like they have like a top seven ish of offensive
25:38 line and they're the three who seem completely locked in our cage, Kata Carpenter and Benson like they will be on the line, and then between Bedford coming back from injury long man is transferring in Carter Smith and sales like those for the trying to figure
25:56 out how to do that but like it is does seem very defined as those are the seven. Yeah, and I think, I think, Bedford will ultimately take one of those spots but it, it does seem kind of clear that he's at least coming back or not to say that he's
26:13 not 100%, but that, you know, he maybe needs a couple games to round into full form.
26:20 Yeah, I think you need to keep an eye on I think it has I think the group has looked noticeably better than last year which is good to see obviously you expect that against an FCS opponent but even, even against Ohio State they held their own I know Tom Allen was saying
26:35 that I wish they would have stayed with their blocks a little bit longer on some of the runs and stuff but that's more of a, I guess more of an, you know, I think that's more correctable than saying like oh well they just couldn't stay in front of anyone, you know,
26:50 but then last year when it was like Connor baseline is about to get folded in half in the next two seconds like it's, it's an improvement. Right. So I think that's promising it sounds like they're really embracing Bob bostat and he's doing a good job so far and that was
27:07 one of the biggest questions going into the season and I think so far, they've checked that box, which is good to see.
27:16 Well unless you have anything else there jack I think we've talked more about Indiana versus Indiana State than is recommended by your local health practitioners, so I think we might be time to wrap it up.
27:27 Thank you all for listening to the Hoosier roundtable of really appreciate anyone checks out the show again still working on my prints and finishing touches on this is our third episode we've recorded will be up on our website Hoosiers now.com where you can
27:40 also find all of our stories from the game as well as stories on all things I basketball we've written a lot about the trio for Mount Verde recruits attending Indiana this weekend for a visual visits and Liam Neely Derek Queen and Curtis Givens.
27:55 So make sure to go check those out and yeah would appreciate any advice feedback anyone has on the show again, still getting started with this and yeah thank you all for listening.