Novelist And Author M. G. Vassanji Speaks About His Book 'A Delhi Obsession'
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00:00 What was the most difficult book to write?
00:06 It was not an easy book to write.
00:09 Although it's a small book, it wasn't that easy to write.
00:16 Because of what people might assume about myself,
00:19 or saying things which might not be palatable to the right-wing elements here.
00:29 But I thought I had to write this.
00:32 It was an important statement to make about the way India has been going in recent times,
00:39 which has been very distressing and painful,
00:43 because it's a country that we love, our ancestry is here,
00:47 and then see that it is putting barriers around people.
00:53 What is the role of M.G. Vasanjee in the book?
00:59 Hello and welcome to Bibliophile.
01:01 We have with us M.G. Vasanjee, noted novelist and author,
01:05 who is out with his new book, Delhi Obsession.
01:08 Mr. Vasanjee, as we know, he is Kenyan born, Tanzanian bred,
01:13 and settled down in Canada, and he has written most of his books from Canada.
01:17 Thank you very much for joining Bibliophile.
01:20 Thank you for inviting me.
01:22 But this is a completely Delhi book.
01:26 It's so much about the city, it's so much about its history,
01:29 the people, the characters are all from Delhi.
01:32 So what made you write a Delhi book at this point?
01:35 Well, in a way it's a continuation of my own journey,
01:40 in the sense that it's by someone and about someone who comes here.
01:45 So he comes here from the diaspora, if you call it.
01:49 So it's in a sense a natural development.
01:54 I can't keep writing about Africa because I don't live there, I go to visit there.
01:57 But I can't keep writing about what's going on happening there now.
02:02 I think for this book, I've been coming to Delhi for many years now.
02:08 And gradually got to know it better and better.
02:12 You know when you first initially come to a place, people sort of don't tell you everything.
02:17 I found out that you discover slowly the nuances.
02:23 And I thought I had.
02:25 I also thought I was staying in a place like this.
02:30 I thought it would be nice to set a novel in such a place.
02:36 Observing the different kinds of people coming and going.
02:39 So Delhi is a place, city in India that I think I know well.
02:46 But it's still written from someone from outside.
02:51 I cannot presume to be an expert or to be a Delhiwala.
02:54 That's not the point.
02:56 But from the day I set foot in India, I noticed this kind of dichotomy or
03:02 labeling of people, Hindu or Muslim.
03:05 I was treated very warmly and I was welcomed like a prodigal son.
03:11 When I first came. And I was very moved.
03:14 But this thing always bothered me that you always have a label, Hindu or Muslim.
03:20 And Christian didn't apply.
03:22 And I never saw myself as labeled by anything.
03:26 If I had a faith, then it would be very personal.
03:29 So it kept bothering me and then of course the current politics has highlighted the difference.
03:37 So over the years, you think that this labeling has only intensified?
03:44 I think it has intensified.
03:48 Of course after the partition, the gap has become deeper.
03:53 Or the wall has risen higher.
03:55 And it has intensified due to politics, due to global politics.
04:06 And it's used.
04:08 So what I noticed was that even in the media, the Muslims are an object.
04:16 An object of statistical analysis.
04:18 You know the employment situation there or the education level there or anything.
04:25 They are census figures.
04:27 But you know, no community, no religious group is uniform.
04:32 You cannot just use a single label for I don't know how many millions of people.
04:38 In the same way, I don't think the Hindus, the so-called majority, are a single majority.
04:42 They are divided into so many factors.
04:45 They were just artificially created into a majority, I believe.
04:48 Especially in a country like ours where you know, the regional influences, the culture, the regional spread, it's so dramatic.
04:57 So many times the religion is secondary to the language and the food.
05:03 I've heard that when Punjabis meet outside of India or Pakistan, then they are like buddhists.
05:11 And then suddenly across the border here, we have all this vitriol and rhetoric spouted by the politicians and the bigots.
05:20 And then sort of carried on without comment by the media, you know, who like these labels.
05:26 Just briefly about the book itself.
05:28 So this is a large, broadly a romance between say two middle-aged people, Munir Khan, the man,
05:37 who has lost his wife recently and between Mohini, who is a mother of two teenage daughters and she is married.
05:44 So that is the setting, broadly speaking.
05:47 So did you choose these characters, the names, their religion, their background, etc.
05:54 I mean to sort of portray the current situation in India?
05:59 Just to highlight a little bit Munir Khan, so there is no doubt who he is.
06:06 Yes.
06:07 And Mohini is saying, again no doubt, and the name Mohi, for example, from the word, a kind of illusion.
06:14 So I think the perceptive reader would know that this is about an illusion of sorts.
06:20 So there was that thought in it, but how it developed is just how a novel develops.
06:26 You are never quite sure where it will go.
06:31 See I could not write about a teenage romance, obviously. It had to be a mature romance.
06:36 I tried other ways because I realized that adultery is a very sensitive subject.
06:41 Although, you know, looking at some of the Indian shows that come on Netflix, you realize that.
06:46 I thought perhaps I was too sensitive. India has changed.
06:50 I had no idea what was what. I just thought this made sense.
06:55 There was a double jeopardy in the sense of a married woman and also that she was from the Hindu faith.
07:03 And it just, for me it worked. It allowed me to develop many issues.
07:11 One of the weight of recent history and tradition that we, especially in India, you bear the partition.
07:21 For example, I met people, I think most of my friends are either kids of refugees or themselves of a poor family.
07:29 One of them had lost a family member and my wife's family in fact had to escape overnight.
07:37 So that thing was very much on my mind.
07:43 What does the weight of that history do to a family and to a young middle-aged woman who is liberal but cannot get away from it.
07:52 Because of family prejudices and wounds, you know. We all carry wounds.
07:58 In fact, you know, migration, you know, the diaspora, the movement of people in the world.
08:08 These have been the recurring themes in your books. And right now it seems to be the most sort of controversial issues all over the world.
08:15 You know, how to manage people who move from places they cannot live anymore due to environmental reasons, due to terror reasons.
08:26 So, how is it in your time, you think, I mean, do you think it's like, you know, this whole thing is getting out of control?
08:36 You mean the movement?
08:38 I mean, you know, this is the major question in most countries in Europe and, you know, in Africa now, from there to the United States, you know, about Mexico and Puerto Ricans and others.
08:50 I don't know how you can control it unless there is more equity in the world.
08:55 As long as the world is unequal, people will move. It's almost like a law of physics, you know.
09:03 You move from a gradient.
09:06 You know, when I was a student, I suddenly realized that I came from a small country and there was a larger world.
09:12 I remember telling myself sooner or later, the poor of the world will start walking.
09:18 They will just go. What can you do to them?
09:21 They need resources. There are resources here, I mean, in the West.
09:26 They need land. There is empty land, you know, for example, in Canada.
09:32 Of course, Canada welcomes immigrants. I live in a country which is very receptive, tolerant.
09:39 So, we are fortunate there.
09:42 But in other places, the United States was a haven. Even now, most Indians, I read yesterday, prefer to go to the United States, even though they may get killed.
09:51 So, it's, I think it's natural. The world is unequal. It becomes more unequal. What do you expect?
10:01 You know, Canada has had this fine tradition of, you know, writing in English, both fiction and non-fiction.
10:07 We have Nobel laureates. We have Booker winners, you know.
10:11 So, how has that formed your, I mean, is it a big inspiration for writers in Canada toâŠ
10:18 Not really. You know, when we came, I came from the United States, in fact.
10:22 I did my college education in the US.
10:26 I came to Canada just because I got a fellowship. So, I went there and then stayed because I like Toronto.
10:32 But it was not as peaceful as it is now or as welcoming.
10:36 In the 1960s, immigration laws were still racist.
10:40 And in the 1980s, when I moved in, you know, there was racism. I have experienced it.
10:47 So, it's not something rhetorical flourish or political statement. I have experienced it.
10:55 But over the years, since it's a small country and it depends on the influx of refugees,
11:01 it has changed its own vision of itself.
11:05 It was a British dominion, pink on the world map, and now it's an independent country, more and more independent.
11:12 Although you can still feel the influence of Britain on Canada, as you can see it here, in India.
11:21 There's very much of the colonial memory still remains.
11:26 For someone who comes from the colonies, it's very obvious.
11:29 But it has changed and I think that it should change more, but it's inevitable.
11:36 The area I moved into when we bought a house was almost all white.
11:43 My son, both sons went to an all-white school.
11:47 But we liked the area. It was close to downtown.
11:50 Now there are so many young Indians and Chinese moving into that area.
11:55 Before, they used to go to suburbs where you could get big houses.
11:59 So, it's really changed in a very pleasant manner.
12:04 We have a Hakka restaurant which is new now.
12:07 We have roti.
12:10 Oh, Indian there.
12:12 There's a new one in our area which is also very nice.
12:15 Italian restaurants and so on.
12:18 For most people, it's acceptable.
12:20 Even for what you might call the Anglophone people who were there before.
12:24 I wanted to ask you another question about your generation of writers.
12:30 At that time, there was a lot of excitement and there was a lot of hope.
12:35 There were so many Indians writing in English at that time.
12:38 Both from India and abroad, actually.
12:41 Do you think over time, that has gone down and they have not lived up to the expectations?
12:54 Well, there's always a euphoria in the Western world.
12:58 Media picks up on something or there's a trend and then everyone jumps on it.
13:04 India was very much in vogue in the 90s and early 2000s.
13:09 Indian books. Now other groups are in vogue in Canada.
13:13 They may not like me saying it but that's what I've noticed.
13:17 Because books by new Indian writers are less likely to be reviewed than books by other groups.
13:26 Also, in my view, I don't know how accurate it is, but I happen to be very active in the literary scene.
13:38 I've literally tried to promote new writing in Canada by people from non-Western backgrounds.
13:45 I've noticed that you get less and less work from Indians, especially people of Indian origin.
13:55 There's a little more from Pakistanis. There's a lot more from Africans.
13:59 Yes.
14:02 I've seen some changes but when my book came out, it was just opening up. So, it was Indian-African sort of.
14:09 Yeah, that's right. Thank you very much Mr. Bachand. It was lovely talking to you.
14:14 Thank you.
14:17 It's a fast-paced, effervescent, a lot of friction and energetic book to read and write.
14:34 It was not an easy book to write. Although it's a small book, it wasn't that easy to write.
14:44 Because of what people might assume about myself or saying things which might not be palatable to the right-wing elements here.
14:56 But I thought I had to write this. It was an important statement to make about the way India has been going in recent times,
15:08 which has been very distressing and painful because it's a country that we love. Our ancestry is here.
15:15 And then see that it's putting barriers around people and rejecting some and not others.
15:23 The violence has been very distressing.
15:30 I'm sure there'll be many readers and it's thought-provoking for them too. Thank you very much.
15:37 Thank you.
15:38 Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.
15:39 Thank you.
15:40 Thank you.
15:41 Thank you.
15:42 Thank you.
15:43 (upbeat music)
15:45 (upbeat music)