Глава Еврогруппы: мировой порядок, сложившийся после войны, открыт для пересмотра
Министр финансов Ирландии и президент Еврогруппы Паскаль Донохью полагает, что США бросают вызов послевоенным международным институтам. В эксклюзивном интервью Euronews он предупредил, что, как показывает история, «прогресс может быть утрачен».
ЧИТАТЬ ДАЛЕЕ : http://ru.euronews.com/2025/05/15/glava-evrogruppy-mirovoj-poryadok-slozhivshijsya-posle-vojny-otkryt-dlya-peresmotra
Подписывайтесь: Euronews можно смотреть на Dailymotion на 12 языках
Министр финансов Ирландии и президент Еврогруппы Паскаль Донохью полагает, что США бросают вызов послевоенным международным институтам. В эксклюзивном интервью Euronews он предупредил, что, как показывает история, «прогресс может быть утрачен».
ЧИТАТЬ ДАЛЕЕ : http://ru.euronews.com/2025/05/15/glava-evrogruppy-mirovoj-poryadok-slozhivshijsya-posle-vojny-otkryt-dlya-peresmotra
Подписывайтесь: Euronews можно смотреть на Dailymotion на 12 языках
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00:00Продолжение следует...
00:30Pascal Donoghue, President of the Eurogroup and Finance Minister of Ireland,
00:34thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.
00:37Shona, thank you for having me on.
00:39Well, look, let's start with the EU-US trade negotiations.
00:43We know that the EU has for some time now being offered a zero for zero tariff rate,
00:49but the US is not satisfied with that.
00:51It wants much greater access to the EU's markets when it comes to agriculture and other areas.
00:55And a lot of people would say that they'd like to see huge deregulation
00:59when it comes to the tech sector, the DSA, the DMA.
01:02Can you say that the EU is not for that, not for lowering standards for the sake of a deal?
01:09So we're not for lowering standards for the sake of that.
01:11And we do have to have a debate and an assessment within the European Union regarding our competitiveness
01:19and the degree to which decisions that we have taken may have contributed to our competitiveness declining
01:26with an impact on our growth, the impact on the number of jobs we may create in the future.
01:31So through that prism, it is important that we assess the regulations that we have and whether they are proportionate.
01:39But while I am convinced that an agreement between the EU and US is in the best interest of both,
01:46I certainly would take great care for a degree of deregulation being part of such an agreement.
01:54So when you say competitiveness, then what could it look like without lowering standards,
01:59without reducing what's in the DSA and the DMA?
02:03What could it potentially look like in theory?
02:05So I think there's a few strands for what it could look like.
02:09It could look like the efforts that we have in relation to the exchange of goods and the tariff levels for that.
02:17And what the EU have outlined as zero for zero is a very ambitious,
02:21but I believe important recognition of the value of trade and how it could be driven further.
02:27It could also look like commitments that we would have to buy more from each other in particular areas.
02:32And it could also look at what we could do in terms of the mutual recognition of the standards that each other have.
02:41And while that is easily and better understood with regard to goods, it could play a role with regard to services.
02:47This is a relationship, as you know, that's worth billions of euros every single day.
02:53And any change at all, no matter how small,
02:56that eases with the flow of that exchange of goods and services on a daily basis,
03:01on an annual basis could be worth a big improvement to both of us.
03:05We know that when the EU announced a couple of weeks ago its potential tariffs in the event that there's no negotiation led to,
03:13that digital services wasn't on that yet, but it potentially is on the table.
03:16Do you think that the reason why that's not there is because it's really a controversial part of the negotiations between the two sides?
03:23So I believe it is understood as a move that, if it were to be applied, could have larger spillover effects.
03:32It could, at that point, become difficult to look at what would be paths for further de-escalation.
03:38And it could make a trade relationship, which is obviously facing a very big challenge at the moment,
03:46face an even bigger one.
03:48Ireland and I have long-standing concerns regarding the role and use of digital services taxes.
03:55And my sense is that in the debate that is now taking place at the moment,
04:00it is understood as an option, but it's also understood as an option that could have very significant consequences.
04:08Indeed, but countries like Germany and France, particularly France, would push for something like that.
04:12And I think it's inevitable in a negotiation like this that is taking place,
04:18that different members of the European Union will have different views.
04:22That is, after all, I believe, our strength.
04:25And what we will do is listen to each other and find a balanced outcome regarding options that we may need to take now
04:32and other options that we might need to consider in the future.
04:35But I think it is fair to say that there are a group of countries within the European Union that would have significant concerns
04:42regarding the use of DSTs and the spillover effects that it could have on the trade negotiations
04:48and the health of the economic flows between the EU and US.
04:52We note that the EU is also saying that regardless of what is the outcome of the next negotiations,
04:57it needs to seek stronger association with other markets, whether it's Canada and so on.
05:02But do you see there might be a renewal of the EU-China relationship as part of this?
05:07We have acknowledged that China can be a partner in many areas,
05:13but we've also acknowledged that in other areas they do pose challenges for the European Union.
05:19And I think that continues to be the right balance.
05:23It is absolutely inevitable as we look at the unfortunate trade tension
05:28that is taking place between the US and the European Union.
05:31The European Union will look at other ways in which it can generate and deepen trade.
05:37We'll do that twofold.
05:39Firstly, through our own single markets and our trade with each other.
05:42And secondly, looking elsewhere in the world
05:44and looking at deeper trading relationships that we can have there.
05:48I think it's important, however, to be realistic,
05:51to say that new trading agreements with other parts of the world,
05:55at least in the short term,
05:57aren't comparable to what we might be able to get out of the single markets.
06:00On the broader issue around trade with the EU and other countries trying to dash to
06:05not quite make up, but in some ways get stronger trade links across the world,
06:10do you think that there's a fear that the issues around global warming,
06:14human rights and other elements that used to be part of the priorities of a trade deal,
06:18that they will just be eliminated in the demand for making up for what we're losing out at the moment?
06:24That risk is definitely there.
06:27And it is part of how the EU needs to be agile in responding back to a world that has changed so much.
06:36But we do have to stand by particular values and ways of engaging with the world that are important to us.
06:44I think it is likely in trade negotiations that will happen elsewhere,
06:49that the reference that those particular issues would have got will, I fear, go down.
06:55But in what we need to do here in the EU, I certainly want to still ensure they have a high value.
07:01And I believe we can do that.
07:03And I believe we should do that.
07:04So just moving on to defence, which obviously is the most important issue almost at the moment.
07:10You very much supported common borrowing when it came to COVID,
07:14because obviously you saw the impact it was having across Europe.
07:17Do you support the same for this existential crisis?
07:20Do you support common borrowing for defence?
07:22I think in the time ahead, the most likely way in which further spending on defence will happen
07:30will be both at a national level in terms of the use of own national resources.
07:36And then secondly, in the new framework that the EU have brought forward,
07:41where we would look at the use of the National Escape Clause where needed.
07:44And we would also look at new forms of lending to each other to help with new forms of spending.
07:52So where's the trade-off?
07:53Because the defence spending has to go way up.
07:55And does that mean you take it out of cap or where does it come from?
08:00Cohesion funding?
08:01So I think in the time ahead, national defence spending will continue to be the larger component
08:07of how we respond back to Europe's security needs.
08:11I hope and I expect from the discussions that I can see happening,
08:16that that will be happening in a more coordinated way that has happened in the past.
08:20And I also think it's likely that progress will be made in areas of procurement.
08:26Therefore, that means that if there is a defence dimension to the next MFF and the EU budget,
08:32I still think it's likely to be smaller than the national contribution that members make
08:38to their own security and the security of the EU.
08:41And therefore, it is possible that the knock-on effect that it will have
08:45on other priorities within the EU budgets may be smaller than we think at the moment.
08:51But, you know, we speak to any Prime Minister, Foreign Affairs Minister, Defence Minister across Europe,
08:56they all say the same thing, that this needs to be a unified European response
09:01to this existential threat, that it actually has to be much bigger
09:04than what has been sort of offered in REARM, and that it has to be European-wide.
09:09It's difficult to have that debate and not divorce us from the broader reality
09:14that, firstly, we'll be negotiating a budget for the new European Union.
09:19Secondly, next-generation EU, which is the new form of common borrowing
09:24that we have to deal with the crisis of a number of years ago of the pandemic.
09:29That that is still happening and still being evaluated.
09:33And death, in relation to all of that, both still has to issue
09:36and still has to be refinanced and dealt with at some point in the future.
09:41All of those things are going to come together.
09:44What's your assessment of the fact that Europe really has to do this alone now
09:47because the US is telling Europe we were shifting the burden,
09:51we're not sharing the burden, we're shifting the burden
09:52of European security to the European continent alone?
09:55I think that logic applies to so many elements now of the European Union,
10:02which is why I made the point to you there, Shona,
10:04that we can't have the debate about defence and security,
10:07as existential as it is, but have that debate without reference
10:12to very other big things that are going to happen now with regard to the EU.
10:16But a theme of what is now happening is the rules,
10:20the institutions that were set up in the aftermath of World War II,
10:23set up with American leadership.
10:26They're now being challenged, they're being contested.
10:28The institutions that we know, the rules in relation to trade and tax
10:32are all now open for renegotiation.
10:36That is now what is happening.
10:38Was Macron and Draghi right when they said Europe is mortal and it could die?
10:42All political order is mortal.
10:45All political order, if not capable of dying, is capable of declining.
10:49That is one of the many lessons that we have from the study of history.
10:53The European Union is no different.
10:55If you believe progress is inevitable, you're on your way to seeing that progress decline.
11:01OK, just finally, you're coming up to the end of your second term as president of the Eurogroup.
11:06You're running for a third term.
11:08Have other countries declared that they're going to run against you or what's the situation?
11:13So no formal declarations have happened yet, but of course it's open to every country to decide
11:18do they want to put forward a candidate or how do they want to vote.
11:22I'm really encouraged by the level of support that I have at the moment,
11:27but really all my focus is on completing my current mandate, which takes me all up to July,
11:33and then on the basis of my track record, asking countries to continue to support me in that work.
11:38We have a few weeks to go before we get to that point,
11:41and as we have just discussed, an awful lot can happen in a number of weeks in the world that we're in,
11:46but I am encouraged by the support I've currently received.
11:49OK, well, Pascal Dunneau, Finance Minister for Ireland and President of the Eurogroup,
11:52thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.
11:54Thank you, Shona.