Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00Fascinating conversation that we are having with Acharya Prashantji.
00:03We are talking about, people keep speaking about doomsday scrolling.
00:07That an average person scrolls about four Mount Everest.
00:11The fun fact is, the one pulling the strings is himself probably a puppet.
00:16You're a machine. You yourself are an algorithm.
00:20Hello and welcome to this another episode of one fascinating conversation that we are having with Acharya Prashantji.
00:26A philosopher, author, somebody who is a lifelong student of Gita and of Vedant.
00:35He's been followed by millions of people and we are fortunate enough to have him here at this moment with us.
00:41Thank you so much for speaking to NDTV.
00:44You know, I just wanted to start with a random thought today.
00:49And we are talking about, people keep speaking about doomsday scrolling.
00:54You are endlessly scrolling.
00:56There was a news report a couple of days back which said that an average person scrolls about four Mount Everest in the time, the way they are using their thumb.
01:06So, four Mount Everest is being scrolled.
01:08But it's taking you nowhere. It's not taking you over the Mount Everest.
01:12Everything these days seems to be, you know, you're completely surrounded by algorithms.
01:19If I right now say that I want to eat, maybe my phone will start giving me options already with what I should be eating and the, you know, and guiding me towards that.
01:31Earlier, there used to be a concept and people used to talk about free will versus destiny.
01:37Now, it's free will versus algorithm.
01:40What do you, what do you think, what do you make of that?
01:43Are we really exercising our free will or are we already become that artificial intelligence being pushed in, you know, by algorithm towards whatever we are thinking, whatever we are doing?
01:54See, free will is only for the free ones and the free one has always been a rarity.
02:03Today, yesterday, historically, ancient times, those who have really been free in the inner sense have been extremely rare.
02:16A free will is some kind of consolation we accord to ourselves.
02:23There is no free will.
02:25Just that it becomes very obvious when the dictator is in the form of an algorithm sitting in your mobile phone or a server somewhere.
02:37But when the algorithm is in the form of systems, processes, institutions and human beings and your relationships, then the mechanical nature of it is not so easily visible.
02:55You see, two persons are relating to each other, right?
02:58Are they exercising free will really or has the code of conduct between these two been decided in advance?
03:11Please understand.
03:12How is that not very algorithmic?
03:15We have relationships, right?
03:17This one is my brother.
03:18So, I have to behave with him in a particular way.
03:21Plus minus 10%.
03:23Some variation is possible so that the mirage of free will can be maintained.
03:30This one is my wife.
03:32That particular person is my father.
03:35That person belongs to my country and that one does not.
03:39That person belongs to my religion and that one does not.
03:43And we immediately know how to conduct ourselves and how to relate.
03:48How is that not algorithmic?
03:50We were always algorithmic.
03:52We were always driven by instruction manuals.
03:58There was always some preset logic.
04:03Inauthentic logic.
04:04Borrowed logic.
04:06Behind our conduct.
04:08And that's why all that could be taken, consolidated and put in the form of a code.
04:15Otherwise, where would the code come from?
04:18You see, what does?
04:19As an example, what does the algorithm do?
04:21You talked of endless scrolling.
04:24The algorithm detects what gives me pleasure.
04:28And feeds the same to me endlessly.
04:31And in return, it makes me watch a particular ad or set of ads, advertisements, expecting that I would then click or proceed and display a certain consumer behavior.
04:42Is that not how everybody behaves more or less to the other one?
04:49I mean, he comes to me.
04:52How do I speak to him?
04:53I know what pleases him.
04:55And that's how I speak to him.
04:56How does one speak to his friends, to his bosses?
04:59Even in intimate relationships, do we dare bring up the truth?
05:05No.
05:06Ask the same question.
05:07Not just social media.
05:09Ask the same question to chat GPT on your own phone.
05:13And on your friend's phone or your wife's phone or some other phone, logged in from a different account.
05:20And you will get a different response.
05:24Even AI is not really serving you the facts or the unbiased truth.
05:31It sees what you have been looking for, what your chat history is like.
05:37And based on that, it serves you a certain response.
05:40And that's what we have been doing to each other since long.
05:43I ask you a question.
05:45You respond to me in a particular way.
05:46He asks you the same question.
05:48Don't you respond to him very differently?
05:50Don't you?
05:51We say, no, no, no.
05:52This is an aspect of being a human being.
05:56We relate differently and there is diversity.
05:58And we look at people and we say, you know, when in Rome, do as Romans do.
06:03And, you know, horses for courses and all those things we will come up with.
06:07But the fact is, behind all of this is just the urge to sitiate one's own ends.
06:15I have a certain need.
06:16Then the need will be fulfilled only when you are kept happy.
06:20So, you will be kept happy in one particular way and that's what I will give to you.
06:24He will be kept happy in another way and I will give that to him.
06:27And the end result of all this is supposed to bring me gratification.
06:32We were always operating this way.
06:35It's just that those invisible lines of communication, those invisible rules have now been taken up
06:45and very rigorously put down in the form of code.
06:52So, basically we are saying that, or if I understand it correctly, that we are always being bound by a code.
07:02That could be our upbringing, the set of rules that we follow as a nation or XYZ.
07:08So, we are always being bound in a certain code of behavior that is either expected or we have learned looking at our parents and so and so forth.
07:17Does that then mean that none of us, none of us are living the life like the way we want to?
07:28There is no me.
07:30There is no me.
07:31I want to live a particular way.
07:33What is this I?
07:34This I itself is a complicated piece of code.
07:39Layer upon layer.
07:43Do you understand?
07:44And it's an organic piece of code that just keeps growing and evolving.
07:48It doesn't even grow because growth appears like something innate.
07:51It doesn't grow.
07:52It just accumulates.
07:54It just piles up things.
07:56There is a snowballing.
07:57So, there are influences and influences and you keep getting conditioned and all that you call as I.
08:04And if the I itself is a borrowed and unfree entity, how can the I want, the desire of the I be called as free will?
08:15Free will is for the free.
08:17I am supposed to be free.
08:18If I am free within, then my will can display a certain freedom.
08:23But am I free within?
08:24I am not.
08:25I am not.
08:25And the brute aspect of my inner bondage is being ruthlessly now exposed in the form of social media algorithms.
08:34We need not think of it as something modern or novel or just recent.
08:39It's been happening throughout.
08:42Two very interesting things that you said that I want to talk about.
08:45Number one, like you said, how do I set myself free then?
08:51Because like you are saying that I am always looking for self-gratification.
08:58So, how do I reach a point where I can start exercising my free will?
09:06You know, I reach a certain agent and I say, you know, I want a girl, I want a boy.
09:13Now, is that you or is that your hormones?
09:16And if those hormones are taken away or you are injected with an extra dose of them,
09:24then your libido or your desire or your love thirst, it just moves proportionally.
09:34So, are you in love or is it just the age, this physical system, the body has attained and the chemicals,
09:41it is now internally secreting through certain glands?
09:45Is it that?
09:46You know, I can die for something, for my caste, for my region, for my country, for my belief, for my ideology.
09:56I can do, you know, is it really yours?
10:00Did you always have it?
10:02Or has it been implanted in you?
10:03And if it's been implanted in you, then you are a mere servant.
10:08You are a puppet.
10:10Somebody else is pulling the strings.
10:12The fun fact is, the one pulling the strings is himself probably a puppet.
10:18But, yeah, so you are a puppet of a puppeteer who is also a puppet of a puppeteer.
10:26Yes, yes, yes.
10:26I have great goals and desires and ambitions.
10:29And I say, this is my target for this quarter.
10:32Now, is that your target really?
10:34Your target?
10:35Do you want it or is it coming from somebody else?
10:37How has it become yours?
10:41Are you free?
10:42Where is freedom?
10:44Ipato, it's very interesting what you are saying.
10:46And when you break it down to, you know, your hormones and blah, then it comes to the world's
10:53most perpetual question.
10:55Then who am I?
10:56It might be the most perpetual question, but it's also the most ignored question.
11:01Nobody wants to get into it because it's a very destructive question.
11:05This is the question at the heart of Vedanta, the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita.
11:09And they say, unless you are confronting this question, you may not be able to answer it.
11:15But at least face the question.
11:18Unless you learn to live with this uncomfortable question, you are not alive at all.
11:24You are a machine.
11:25You yourself are an algorithm.
11:28Now, why do you complain against algorithms?
11:31That's interesting.
11:32Do you think that, because we are talking about being truthful, do you think truth is the biggest
11:40casualty of this self-gratisification?
11:43The very center of my being is a big lie.
11:48What relationship can I have with truth?
11:50The only relationship can be of avoidance, ignorance or even hate.
11:54When truth knocks on my door, my entire structure starts shivering because it is made of all kinds
12:09of lies and deceptions, self-deception.
12:12So, I cannot have any constructive or loving relationship with the truth.
12:16Most people avoid truth like death.
12:18Like the very famous movie dialogue said, you can't handle the truth.
12:23You can't handle the truth.
12:25And then truth is not something you know you can really handle.
12:28When the truth comes, it is the master.
12:30It owns you.
12:31It lords.
12:32It possesses.
12:34Whereas, we are accustomed to being our own masters.
12:38And we have allowed something very petty, something very non-existent to become the center of our
12:45life.
12:46And that's all the influences and all the lies that we want to secure.
12:53We say we don't want to challenge them.
12:54We don't want to talk about them.
12:56We can talk about everything in the world.
12:58But we don't want to talk about things that matter.
13:00Even in relationships, there are certain questions or topics that are forbidden.
13:05And those are the topics that really matter.
13:09They are not supposed to be raised.
13:11You raise them and the entire structure again will start.
13:18Can I then ask you, and I am sure a lot of people must be asking you this question.
13:25What's the first step?
13:26Will I be consigned to a life of, attached to these threads, which could be artificial
13:34intelligence, algorithm, or the preconditioned one that we already have, that we were, we
13:41got bought up with?
13:43Is there a way I can make a start somewhere that starts helping me see that truth or at
13:49least helps me on the process of, you know, detaching myself from these strings?
13:54Don't easily call anything as me or mine.
14:01Me or mine.
14:04Remember those long sideburns?
14:07Remember the bell bottoms?
14:12Someone wants to keep a particular kind of beard without the mustache?
14:16That's not you.
14:18Don't easily call anything as the self.
14:22Don't invest yourself in places that will yield you nothing.
14:32If you have to invest yourself, invest yourself in the true self.
14:39Somebody else has thought, why should I lay down my life for it?
14:42Let it come from within me, organically, authentically.
14:48But the real thing, which is authentic, your own, cannot show up unless you first of all discard what is not yours.
14:57That's called the process of negation, niti-niti in Vedanta.
15:03So, before you own something, before you identify with something, before you associate very intimately with something, ask yourself, is that me?
15:13The way, for example, you look at people conversing, you look at people, even in their most sacred moments, sometimes you can pick up which particular movie it is coming from.
15:30But that fellow will be very serious about the whole thing and will be damn annoyed if you tell him, you know, the way you are holding your girl's hands, the way the two of you are walking, that's coming from that particular western movie.
15:48We raise gods and goddesses based on trends.
15:56You come up with a movie showing a new goddess and that has very recently happened in the last few decades.
16:03A new goddess.
16:04And you will find millions have actually started worshipping the new goddess and raised temples and become faithful devotees, whatever that means.
16:13Whatever that means.
16:15So, where is you in your faith?
16:18Where is you in your devotion?
16:22Where is I in your life?
16:25Once you start seeing that, then there is a fire within.
16:29Then there is a great rebellion within because freedom is nature.
16:33Just that you have to identify first of all and acknowledge that you are unfree.
16:38And then there is a fire within and then something happens spontaneously.
16:44Is it that easy?
16:45How is it any easier to live without freedom?
16:53I don't know whether it's easy.
16:54What I know is that it's the only option.
16:56Easy or difficult.
16:57It's the only thing.
16:59Do you think that you've been able to do that?
17:01There is nothing called a summit, a culmination, perfection or an end point.
17:10One constantly strives and that journey is what justifies life.
17:15That's beautiful because I think the problem, at least I feel, I can't say for others, I should stop saying for everybody else.
17:22But I think it's about, we are always in a hurry to reach.
17:26It's just about making it there.
17:31There was this, when you were talking about it and you said that, you know, when you said that, for any idea, why should I kill myself or why should I die?
17:38But this thought that came into my mind, do you think that all these algorithms, systemic algorithms, artificial algorithms, all of them have been created because if people start looking within or with their free will, then the so-called system will collapse.
18:00I mean, there won't be any discipline.
18:03No, you don't need discipline.
18:05You need consciousness.
18:08We are not disciplined people here, I hope.
18:11We are conscious people.
18:12Nobody comes to tell us, you sit this way, you behave this way, you cross your legs, you don't throw your hands.
18:20Nobody comes to tell us.
18:22We are relating to each other at a particular level, a particular elevation.
18:28And that suffices.
18:29That suffices.
18:30There are many of us in this hall right now.
18:37And when we walk, we don't want to be disciplined.
18:41We just want to have our eyes open and that suffices.
18:43We won't collide.
18:46That suffices.
18:49It's not as if it's a grand conspiracy by an external power to keep us in bondage.
18:55No.
18:56No external agency wants to keep you disciplined like inmates in a jail.
19:00That's not the way.
19:01That's not the way.
19:01The system has been created by us and is being nurtured by each one of us.
19:06Because that system is first of all an internal thing.
19:10The system exists within.
19:11What you see outside is just an external manifestation of the internal bondage.
19:17And when you start turning inwardly free, your systems also become correspondingly freer.
19:26Then you don't need systems to keep you in check and keep telling you all the small things.
19:32You behave this way.
19:33You don't marry this way.
19:34You should eat this way.
19:35You should walk that way.
19:37Why should anybody tell me that?
19:39That appears so childish when I'm internally grown up.
19:43It's like peeling the onion layer by layer.
19:49You can just keep going and keep talking about it.
19:52It's so fascinating.
19:53I will end this with just by asking you a very, you know, just last one thing.
20:00Do you, you know, because a lot of focus is on the addiction of internet or the algorithms and so and so forth.
20:04But now I'm constantly thinking of the other dimension that, you know, that you've spoken about.
20:09That we are programmed in a certain way right from the time we are born.
20:12Which one of these two, if you compare, you find more dangerous, more, you know, binding?
20:23They are one.
20:24They are exactly one.
20:26Just that it becomes ruthlessly honest when we find ourselves enthralled by a machine.
20:35But when you are enthralled by a woman and you start saying, I'll lay down my life for her, I've fallen in love.
20:46That's much the same thing.
20:47You are being driven by an algorithm.
20:49You are being controlled by a code.
20:53Just that in this case, the code is genetic.
20:56What else is the genome project?
20:59It is to unravel the genetic code.
21:01So there is a code inside us.
21:03Why do we want to be servants to that code, first of all?
21:07And because we are servants to the inner code, that's why it's so possible that an outer code can be written manifesting the inner slavery.
21:18You know, I can keep going on and keep talking about this.
21:22This is fascinating.
21:23When you start discussing that, it's just like that moment where you have to take the red or the blue pill.
21:28And then you decide what happens with the matrix.
21:30But fascinating to have you here.
21:31Thank you so much.
21:32It's been a pleasure.