Emergency Press Conference on North Sea job losses
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00:01OK, morning everyone, and thanks for joining us here in the stunning setting at the Silver
00:04Darling on a sunny Aberdeen morning.
00:08We've called the press conference in response to a series of job losses across the north-east
00:12of Scotland, and the UK government promised that its approach to the North Sea energy
00:17sector would not cost jobs, and we've brought you together today because we believe, in
00:23our view, that this promise is now being broken.
00:26In the past fortnight alone, nearly 600 energy jobs have been put at risk across this region.
00:32The latest blow, of course, delivered this week by Harbour Energy's decision to cut a
00:36quarter of its Aberdeen workforce.
00:40This follows several hundred other jobs being lost at subsea engineering supply chain firms
00:44across the north-east in short order.
00:48These are not just redundancy rounds anymore.
00:50These are a flashing red warning light for the UK's energy security, for its industrial
00:57base, and most importantly, for its clean energy ambitions.
01:01And we're here to send a clear message from this region that enough is enough.
01:07And I'm pleased to be joined this morning by a wide range of voices from the community here
01:11in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire, who are going to share their direct experiences.
01:16We've got Donna Hutchison, Chief Executive at Aberdeen Cyrenians, a charity which supports
01:20vulnerable people across the city and the wider region.
01:24We've got Sean Robertson, who's the Aberdeen Regional Organiser at the GMB Union, representing
01:29energy workers across the whole of the North Sea.
01:33We've got Steve Gray, who's managing partner at Ventec Studio, which is a climate tech venture
01:39studio investing in the energy transition, both here in the UK and around the world.
01:44And finally, we've got an employee directly impacted by the announcement this week, Kerry
01:49Smith with us today, who manages a team of 25 engineers who are obviously going through
01:56pretty tough times this week.
02:00Before I come to them, I'd just like to make a few opening remarks and set the scene.
02:03Firstly, the Climate Change Committee, which is an independent statutory body in the UK
02:07established to ensure that the UK's emission targets are evidence based and independently
02:13assessed.
02:15Its recent seventh carbon budget said, and I quote, as of 2021, direct employment in oil
02:22and gas in Aberdeen has declined by nearly one third since 2015.
02:29World disposable income has fallen and poverty has increased.
02:32That is in the Climate Change Committee's own report.
02:36And that's not just an impact on oil and gas jobs, that's a much wider impact on extended
02:41supply chains.
02:43So what that actually means is that this region has effectively suffered 25 Grangemouths inside
02:49the last few years.
02:50But no one is saying or doing anything about it.
02:54Maybe it's just acceptable collateral damage of government policy.
03:00Those that say these people should just get work in renewables, well, it's not that simple.
03:05Projects and jobs are simply not available yet at scale.
03:08And of course, we're starting to see major projects like Hornsea cancelled because they're
03:12not currently economically viable.
03:16And this is creating a gap that many of the 200,000 people in the UK whose livelihoods depend
03:21on the sector are going to fall into.
03:24We really are sleepwalking into a repeat of what happened to our coal mining communities
03:30in the 1980s.
03:32Secondly, back to the CCC, it estimates that even as we decarbonise, the UK will need 15
03:40billion barrels of oil and gas between now and 2025 to keep the lights on and to keep
03:46the country running.
03:49Currently only a quarter of this will come from domestic sources.
03:54This makes no environmental sense and no economic sense, leaving us exposed to volatile global
04:01conditions.
04:02There is, however, the opportunity to double that amount protecting jobs, generating an
04:08additional 150 billion of economic activity and contributing positively to our climate commitments
04:16as imported LNG, of course, comes at a much higher global carbon toll.
04:22And this is supported by 68% of voters in a survey that's been launched today, a survey
04:27that says across the UK voters say that the oil and gas we still need should be met from
04:33domestic production and not imported.
04:38Thirdly, the problem that we're in is entirely down to the current fiscal and regulatory policy
04:45that's impacting the sector.
04:48Remember, domestic oil and gas is taxed at 78%.
04:52That's right, 78%.
04:54All other sectors in the UK, regardless of their profit levels, pay 25% corporation tax.
05:03Imported oil and gas is not taxed at all.
05:09And let's not confuse global profits as keeps happening with activity in the domestic market.
05:14Energy in 2023 made less profit than Celtic Football Club.
05:19And in 2024, a £930 million pre-tax profit turned into a £72 million loss after tax.
05:30So it's no wonder that UK jobs are being lost.
05:35Operators and investors are being forced to look overseas for projects to guarantee a workable
05:41return on their capital and investment.
05:44And, of course, with decreasing work in the North Sea, what's happening is that our supply
05:48chain, which is viewed as the best in the world by other energy-producing regions, is following,
05:56accepting long-term contracts, deploying its people, its resources and its equipment to ensure
06:02that they remain viable today.
06:04But, vitally, that means those things are not here in the UK to accelerate our renewable
06:10energy ambitions.
06:12So that's the scene that I'd like to set.
06:15I'm actually going to come to Donna first.
06:18Good morning, Donna.
06:19Your organisation is very much on the front line as people face hardship.
06:24Have you seen increased demand for your services as a consequence of what's happening in the region
06:29right now?
06:30Yeah.
06:31So, for context, the first three months of the year, we would see about 400 presentations
06:36a month at our community hub in Summer Street.
06:39As of April, that was up by 20%, and that was before the job losses.
06:43That's a direct result of rent controls being removed, council tax going up.
06:48We call it awful April.
06:50All those annual increases that are just cost of living.
06:53So we were already seeing an impact from that perspective before we started to get into
06:58the job losses that we've seen over the last couple of weeks.
07:01Okay.
07:02And who is this impacting, and how is it manifesting itself?
07:07So I think it's impacting across the board.
07:09There is no one cohort or one group that is impacted.
07:13And I think this is part of the challenge that we have in Aberdeen, is that we are an extreme
07:18wealth gap city.
07:20You know, yes, there are some high earners, and that's the perception about oil and gas.
07:24But there's a large number of people earning a lot less.
07:27There's a large number of people on real living wage.
07:30And it means wealth isn't evenly distributed.
07:32But we have an employment as of June last year is at 4.4% for Aberdeen City.
07:38That's higher than the Scottish average of 3.5%.
07:41We know from the Chamber's economic survey that there's one and a quarter jobs being companies
07:46considering job losses higher than the UK average.
07:51So what we see a lot of is in work poverty already.
07:54It is people working one, two jobs to make ends meet, and they're struggling.
07:58So there's a real challenge about financial insecurity, food insecurity.
08:02We're in a city that's already got a housing emergency.
08:06And we're doing lots of things, good things in the city with the local authority, with the
08:10health and social care partnership.
08:11But when we have external factors impacting our city that we have no control or influence,
08:17it's becoming incredibly difficult.
08:19And I think the decisions that are being made, there's always unintended consequences of decision
08:25making, right?
08:26We accept that.
08:27But it's what's a tolerable risk.
08:29Because here's what we will see.
08:31We will see an increase in child poverty.
08:33We will see an increase in alcohol and substance related harm.
08:36And we will likely see an increase in domestic violence.
08:39Now I'm all up for a just transition, fair and inclusive.
08:42But I'm pretty sure that's not palatable to anybody in society to accept those risks.
08:47We don't have the same level of support in statutory services and the third sector that we had
08:53in 2014, which is the last bad crash.
08:55So my sector is picking up the pieces and my sector is struggling to do that.
09:01My staff are struggling with the emotional load that they're seeing when people come in
09:04the door in crisis.
09:07We want to work in prevention and intervention.
09:09That's where we want to be, not crisis.
09:11The just transition in a sensible way is absolutely key to that prevention and intervention for the
09:17city.
09:18So to be adding on just more layers of crisis after COVID, after energy and security.
09:25This is about human beings.
09:26This is people's lives and families that we're speaking about.
09:30This is just not numbers on a spreadsheet.
09:32And I think, you know, we really need to remember the humanity in this.
09:35And that really is having an impact every day in the citizens of Aberdeen.
09:40Thanks, Jonah.
09:41A kind of very strong cautionary tale there.
09:45Sean, I think this is probably quite unique in a way in the sense that, you know, we have
09:48pretty much absolute alignment between the trade unions and its workers, industry, investors,
09:54academics, and industry itself on the challenges and the solutions.
10:01But yet we're not necessarily cutting through on those.
10:04So, you know, you and the GMB have voiced deep concerns about the government's opposition
10:08to future licensing in particular.
10:11What's the mood amongst the workforce right now?
10:13I think the mood among workers could be summed up by the term concern and confusion, you know.
10:19I think we've been engaging extensively with workers.
10:24And recently we're out on the platform on Bruce.
10:26And I think there's a real concern about the impact of current government policy on jobs
10:31and skills and displacement for workers and their families.
10:37There's real, real confusion about why government would wish to import more of the oil and gas
10:42we still need instead of backing the North Sea to support that demand.
10:46And we've seen that with, you know, the cancelling of the licences for Rosebank and Jackdaw.
10:51And it doesn't feel like the change that we're seeing is a just transition at all.
10:56It feels like it's a change that's being done to workers rather than with workers.
11:01And it's a transition that is being measured, as we've seen with Harboured Energy.
11:05And, you know, I see this on a daily basis.
11:07It's being measured in redundancies instead of opportunities.
11:13The truth of the matter is that the UK can't do without the oil and gas sector if it wants
11:18to make a success of the energy transition.
11:22The North Sea secures 200,000 jobs through direct production and supply chains, and it
11:27delivers just under half of the UK's domestic gas needs and over half of its oil demand.
11:33Taxes from the sector, which totalled 6.2 billion in 2023-24, in turn help pay for our
11:39public services and public investment.
11:41A cliff edge for investment, exploration and production in the sector because of flawed
11:46fiscal policy and ideological bans is bad for jobs.
11:52Like I said earlier on, change is being done to workers and not with them.
11:55The transition away from oil and gas is being measured in job losses.
11:59I don't think the promises of tens of thousands of jobs in renewables have come to fruition.
12:04And it doesn't seem like a just transition for people in Port Talbot or Grangemouth or at
12:09Harbour Energy.
12:12Therefore, we don't see the logic in banning new licences in the North Sea and then importing
12:16oil and gas from other parts of the world, particularly in the current geopolitical climate.
12:23I think to better protect and create jobs, apprentices, skills, and to promote our energy
12:28security, we shouldn't be increasing our dependency on oil and gas imports.
12:35Rather, we should be looking for oil and gas at home.
12:39Thanks, Sean.
12:40Really clear points made there.
12:42Steve, your venture studio business is investing in climate tech.
12:46So on the face of it, you would say that's pretty much aligned with the ambitions of the
12:51government, yet you believe the transition is going badly wrong.
12:55Why do you feel that way?
12:58Yeah, Russell, as you say, so our business is, you would think from the outside is very
13:04aligned with the government's objectives.
13:06What we're actually seeing, though, is that the current policies, instead of creating a
13:09transition, have created a chasm between oil and gas and renewables.
13:16And what we've seen within the last couple of weeks are at least half a dozen companies
13:22or projects falling into that chasm.
13:25And the problem with that is that when you have an energy transition, you can take the
13:30supply chain and the jobs and the engineering skills and you can ride the transition.
13:35But when you have a chasm like that in the middle, what you have is, as we've seen over
13:39the last two weeks, rounds of redundancies, businesses entirely closing down.
13:43And then bear in mind what you have to do on the other side of that is that when you
13:47then want to build our offshore wind farms or inspect them in the future, you have to
13:51do start-ups in the sector or you have to bring in overseas companies to carry out those
13:56things.
13:57And both of those are very difficult.
13:59So the cost of capital for start-ups is very high.
14:02They're difficult to do.
14:04Or we rely on foreign engineering expertise to build those wind farms.
14:07And that chasm in the middle is being filled largely with liquefied natural gas, which
14:12has four times the carbon footprint that domestic production would have had.
14:16So the thing that I think we struggle with is that however you assess current government
14:20policy, whether it's economics, whether it's jobs, whether it's carbon, whether it's the
14:25pace of the transition, it fails on every measure.
14:27So we really think there needs to be a very serious reset around the government's entire
14:34approach to the energy transition.
14:38Fundamentally, the biggest challenge we see, which is very damaging, is charging 78% tax on
14:44the profits of domestic oil and gas production only while you drive up imports which are untaxed
14:50and which don't have to pass any of our regulatory or licensing regime and are brought without
14:55without second thought from all over the world in order to keep the lights on.
14:59And to Russell's point earlier, you know, maybe 3 billion of the 12 to 15 billion barrels of oil
15:06that the UK cannot avoid using between now and the net zero target date of 2050.
15:12The choice really is about how you fill that transition, which is currently a chasm.
15:19And we would call for the government to really rethink on the on the tax, there should be no
15:27excessive tax regime now on domestic production, that should be seen as something that's in
15:35vital national interest to charge a normal rate of tax on that like other sectors pay in terms
15:42of cooperation tax. And also to, you know, while the UK is still using oil and gas, banning your
15:50own drilling licenses and relying on other peoples from overseas, and giving them all the tax revenue
15:55and the jobs and the economic benefit, and the engineering skills that we in fact require for
15:59the transition, just makes no sense.
16:02And of course, you know, today, you know, the price of crude oil is trading way below the 15
16:07year average. There are no windfall conditions in the North Sea and every other country which
16:12applied these for a short period of time following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, took them away
16:17many years and months ago. But yet, it remains a blocker to investment and jobs here in the UK.
16:24Steve, in terms of solutions, you were recently part of an independent North Sea transition task
16:30force made up of trade unions, academics, supply chain businesses, investors, and importantly,
16:35also the Forum for the Future, which is a leading international sustainability organization.
16:40What were some of the recommendations of that piece of work?
16:44Yeah, so the report, as Russell says here, that was produced, I think the first thing to say is that
16:50there was remarkable consensus among the academics, industry, trade unions, the third sector,
16:58around the direction of travel here. And it really calls for three big changes from the government.
17:07And they're pretty straightforward. One, charge a normal rate of tax on domestic oil and gas
17:13production. Two, the licensing regime needs to be balanced during the transition. And thirdly, to
17:24sanction and support the carbon capture schemes, which will allow the country to sequester some of
17:33the carbon during the transition, and also retain some of the vital skills and create a global class
17:40leading hub for that in this part of the world, which already has many of the skills.
17:44So as you said, the solutions are in our own hands, I think, is the answer to that. Last, but certainly
17:50not least, although you might be feeling that that's the way you're being treated by the government at the
17:54moment, I've actually got Kerry Smith from Harbour Energy, who manages a team of 25 engineers based here.
18:03This must have been a pretty incredibly difficult week for you. How are you feeling? How and how is this
18:08impacting you and your colleagues? And what's the mood?
18:10It's a really hard week. I mean, people are sad. They're really worried about their jobs and about
18:16their colleagues. What no one is, is surprised. This was entirely expected. And the government
18:22should have expected this. We've been telling government for a long time that the EPL is really
18:26going to impact our business, that there's going to be a lack of investment, and that's going to
18:30lead to a loss of jobs. And that's exactly what we're seeing happening this week. And it's
18:33impacting real people that I work with every single day. And I want to sort of focus on that,
18:38you know, 250 jobs, that's a huge amount of people. That's on top of 350 jobs that we lost
18:43back in 2023. 600 at one company. You know, it's 600 lives and mortgages and families and
18:50livelihoods. So I guess what we want to see from the government is that they actually care
18:55about that, that they're listening to us. I was really disappointed to hear the Prime Minister's
18:59response to Stephen Flynn earlier this week at Prime Minister's questions, and the lack of
19:04appreciation for the people at Aberdeen and the people of Scotland, and especially in comparison
19:08to the efforts that have gone on down in Scunthorpe. A few of you have talked a little about the
19:13energy mix and the requirement for oil and gas to be part of the energy mix going forward and
19:19to be impacting our jobs and impacting our livelihoods and impacting the UK economy,
19:23only to have to import, you know, that's particularly hard to take.
19:26I guess what's also frustrating is I just want to be clear that these jobs are directly as a result
19:33of government policy and EPL taxation. You know, I see that. I'm a real person working at Harbour.
19:39I see projects that just don't meet metrics anymore and assets that have to come forward in terms of
19:44cessation of production dates because they're not economic anymore. It's real and the government need
19:48to take accountability for that. And we really just want them to listen to us to start caring about
19:52the people of Scotland and to act now before it's too late. And before we lose the skill set,
19:56we need to deliver the energy transition. The engineers that work in my team are highly
20:00competent, highly skilled individuals. You know, they're the perfect people to take us through an
20:04energy transition, but the jobs aren't there right now and we're losing them in the oil and gas
20:08industry. So we need the government to start listening to us. Thanks Kerry. So I'm going to throw
20:15it open to the floor now if you'd like to sort of address questions through me and then I'll try and bring
20:20in the appropriate panel member to answer it. And we like to either make a comment or ask a question.
20:25And if you do put your hand up, get the mic so that everything, as Ryan said, is captured for later.
20:32So have we got a mic? I mean, right there. That's right next to you. That was handy, can you say.
20:38Rebecca Curran from the BBC. I wonder if I start with you, Russell, what you make of the Chancellor's
20:44comments this week. She gave an interview to the BBC on the back of hearing about the energy
20:50jobs announcement. And the point that she made was that oil and gas firms are facing the same
20:58or similar levels of taxation in Norway and are not making layoffs. She also claimed that other
21:03North Sea companies, who are obviously facing the same conditions, are not making layoffs. Now, in light
21:08of what you have said today, what's your response to that? Well, Norway's long been held up by people
21:15and you can say, oh, we should we should do what Norway does. And I think we've heard very senior
21:20voices from that country recently expressing absolute incredulity about the direction of travel
21:26that the UK is taking. You know, they have had a really long term period of stability. Companies,
21:34their investors, they have understood what they were working with, which has not been the case here and
21:38remains not the case here. And what I would say to the Chancellor is, you know, along with senior
21:44colleagues, she actually needs to come up. And rather than making flippant remarks about about
21:49a well, you know, the these job losses are commercial decisions by companies. Yeah,
21:54these are companies that are not making huge profits in the UK, we keep as I said earlier,
21:58we keep confusing this bit about global profits, these global giants, the North Sea is not a profitable
22:04place to do business. And the result of that is investments going, jobs are going in the supply
22:09chains following it, which means we're actually going to damage our chances of moving towards
22:14renewable energy generation in the country, not actually helping it. That's the that's the irony
22:19here is that government policy, which is thinks by stopping domestic oil and gas production will speed up
22:25this transition, it will actually slow it down.
22:27Can I add something, Russell? Just on the point that was made by the Chancellor around the comparable tax
22:34rate in Norway. That point is only ever made by people who fundamentally have no understanding of
22:39the tax regime in Norway. What the Norwegian tax regime does is it charges 78% of the profit,
22:44but the Norwegian government writes a check for 78% of the exploration costs.
22:50So in effect, the Norwegian government acts as a co-vencioner on the projects, and receives a return
22:56for the investment that they made. It's a completely different tax regime, and not in any way similar to the UK.
23:02So are you saying, do you think the UK government doesn't quite understand what's going on in the
23:07North Sea oil and gas industry? That's very clear. It's very clear. Thanks. Steve?
23:15Yeah, I think, well, firstly to you, Russell. I mean, it's quite simple.
23:19Why do you think the government would change their mind now? I mean, you've had harbour energy
23:23in the past 350, Apache 90 jobs, at that point 450. So why? Yep, there's 600 now in the last few weeks, but
23:30we've seen what the Chancellor's saying. We've seen what the Prime Minister said at PMQs. Why do you
23:35think they're going to change their mind now? Part of me wants to say I don't know. But I think the
23:41reason that we're here today is to try and make a case to actually say to them, look, the impact of
23:47the decisions that you're making right now are significant. And there's lots and lots of talk about
23:53deindustrialisation of industry in the UK and huge rushing around coming up with rescue plans. This
24:00is not a region that needs bailouts. Just a tweak in some sensible regulatory and tax policy now will
24:09actually safeguard jobs, create jobs, allow the acceleration of the energy transition. And, you know,
24:17we're very much like to welcome the Prime Minister, the Chancellor, other ministers to come and see for
24:23themselves. They've rushed very quickly to other places. We haven't seen them here for quite some
24:28time. And one of the asks that we've got is come hear it from the mouths of the workers, of the people
24:34that are being impacted, of the people that are trying to invest in the future. And that's what we'd like
24:40to say to them. That's why we're here today. This is a community that if we're not careful, and, you know,
24:46politicians of all persuasions promise we will never repeat what happened to our industrial
24:50communities in the 80s. We are sleepwalking dangerously close to exactly that. And that's
24:55why we've brought everybody together here today. Yeah, I can add to that a little bit. So,
25:00as I said about unintended consequence of decision making, we know whether that's at local authority
25:04level, Scottish Government, UK, there is an impact assessment done. Okay, and we know that risks are
25:09tolerable. Now, we've heard a lot about emission reduction, net zero, we've heard a lot about fiscal.
25:15So, what I really want to understand is, are we seriously prepared in an impact assessment to
25:21tolerate an increase in child poverty, an increase in alcohol substance related harm, an increase in
25:26domestic violence? Are those tolerable risks to move quicker and faster in the net zero? Because,
25:34as Katie said, we're speaking about human beings here. We are not speaking about just emissions or just
25:40finance on a spreadsheet. And I think that's the point. And I've welcomed the opportunity to be able to
25:45support the Chamber, the UK, the unions, because how else are we getting the message through if
25:52we're not doing it on the humanity piece? Because nothing else appears to be working. So, if there
25:56is a real push that society is willing to accept that risk, to do that to community, then I'd be asking
26:04some questions. Can I just ask one to Kerry, if that's okay? Obviously, you know, Kerry, a couple
26:10of years ago, we had the 350 jobs at Harbour. We've now got this situation. We know Harbour have been a
26:15very vocal sort of critic of the EPL. How difficult has it been working there in the last sort of number
26:21of years? Because obviously, we had that first round, we've got this one. And the company has been quite
26:26clear over the last couple of years, this would come. So has it been difficult for employees to
26:31be working under that almost cloud for the last few years? Of course it is. It's uncertainty for
26:35people's lives and for their livelihoods, and for their mortgages, like I said earlier. It's been very
26:40difficult. And it's frustrating too, for all the reasons we've spoken about, that we can see that this
26:45makes no sense. It doesn't make sense economically, it doesn't make sense from an emissions perspective.
26:50And we really want the government to start listening and acting on that and acting now,
26:54before we lose our industry. So yeah, a difficult environment to work in over the past few years.
27:00Okay, can I ask, many people will consider, sorry, many people will consider people in jobs like
27:07yourself to be highly skilled, and people that will presumably just go on and find another job
27:14very easily. Is that the case? Or are you sitting there genuinely fearing for your future if you lose
27:20your job in the next few months? Of course I am. There's hundreds of thousands of jobs in the oil
27:24and gas industry. Of course we are highly skilled individuals, but where are the jobs that we would
27:28be going to? I started as a graduate in oil and gas. I've developed through that time. I've never worked
27:33in any other industry. I'm a full-time working mum. You know, this is massively concerning for me and for
27:39our colleagues. So yeah, that would be my view on it. Can I just add to that? You know, as a union
27:46official, we see day in, day out a steady trickle of redundancies across the basin in various employees,
27:55and this is something that we need to take seriously. As Kerry said, the jobs aren't there for
28:03those workers to go to, and we need government, you know, to take action. And this, the North Seas
28:10transition needs to have mission status, and it needs better cooperation between government, industry,
28:16unions, and the regulator to devise a plan that we can build a successful transition so that we can use
28:21the skills of people like Kerry. And workers need to be front and centre of decision making when it comes
28:26to this issue. Absolutely. Thanks, Sean. There's a question from Rebecca here. Could I pass the mic over?
28:33Thank you. Thank you. It was to come back in on the Chancellor's comments as well, and to kind of
28:42boost what you're saying. We've heard a lot of talk about the supply chain. I work for the Energy
28:46Industry Council. We represent roughly 900 and odd members globally in the supply chain.
28:51We're already seeing job losses in the supply chain, and we have been for the last 18 months. We have
28:56seen legacy family companies go to the wall. We've seen M&A activity. The biggest thing that isn't
29:02understood in this transition, and I push back on the use of the transition, I fully agree, it's a chasm
29:08now. And the supply chain have been trying to jump what was a ditch, and is now that chasm. And we are
29:17seeing our supply chain leave the UK, and they are pursuing international projects. We don't now have
29:25the capacity and the capacity and the capability to deliver that transition, which is why I push back
29:31on that terminology. And it plays into all of this. And I fully agree, the workers and the results of
29:38the families are key here. But for some reason, it's not landing. And I think if you look at the impacts
29:48throughout the UK and what we have already lost, the red lights are not just flashing,
29:56they've been and gone. And the supply chain is much further down that leaving route than I think
30:03we're acknowledging. And we have to find a way to be better. And I fully back the policies that you're
30:09going after. I would also be curious as to what you think of taking energy as a political football out
30:16of the policy spectrum and putting it into an independent hand that doesn't change political
30:20allegiance on a five-year cycle.
30:23Yes, thanks, Becca. So one of the previous recommendations from the Chamber's
30:29biannual energy transition survey was that this topic was becoming a political football. And frankly,
30:35it's pretty complex. And sadly, the policy writers and the people that front up those policies don't
30:41really understand it deeply enough to make the right decisions. And one of the things that the
30:47task force looked at was would it be viable to say, is there an independent body which sits above the
30:56government of the day, regardless of which colour that government is, a bit like the Bank of England,
31:01which has independent policies, fiscal levers over economic decision making, that the government can't
31:08actually then necessarily change. I think one of the – if you correct me if I'm wrong – I think
31:14that the general point was that would take years. And we do not have years. We've got months, if that,
31:21to actually save the situation that we're outlining this morning. So much as though I think we think
31:26that's an interesting topic, I don't think we've got time to pursue it. And the task force made another
31:32a number of recommendations which were deliverable at pace, rather than trying to create a commission which
31:37looked at something that might report in five years. We haven't got five years.
31:42Any more questions or thoughts? I'm just wondering – I've obviously got Andrew Belly MP, Stephen Flynn
31:49IMP in front of – any sort of reflections, Stephen, first from what you've heard today?
31:54Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Russell. And thank you to Kerry in particular for coming along here this
32:01morning. It must be an incredibly difficult time for you and your colleagues. And it can't be easy to sit
32:06there and answer questions on this topic when it is so real to you. I'm here for a very simple reason,
32:11Russell, as you know, because I believe in jobs. I believe in energy security. I believe in economic
32:17growth. And of course, I believe in net zero. And the policies that we are seeing put in place and the
32:23uncertainty which is being caused by the policy landscape in Westminster currently puts at risk
32:28all four of those things. That's a deeply, deeply disappointing position for us to be in. And it's
32:34a cause of real concern for myself as a local member of parliament, looking out on the port of Aberdeen,
32:39which of course is a thriving industrial base and a city which has the capacity to lead the world in
32:46the energy transition. We're not going to do that as it stands without a change of direction and without
32:51a government which is willing to support the domestic industry that we currently have. I've
32:56made my views very clear to the Prime Minister this week. And I guess my final closing remark here
33:02today would be to reiterate the invitation that I made to him, which I think has been extended by
33:08the panel here today, for the Prime Minister to come to Aberdeen to explain to the people of the
33:12city and the region why their energy bills haven't reduced, why there hasn't been that investment in
33:17the ACOM project, why he's causing such uncertainty with the oil and gas sector and the challenges
33:23that places upon his mission of reaching net zero. This is not a good time for our city. It is a deeply
33:30concerning moment. We need to walk away from this cliff edge. We need to run away from this cliff edge. We
33:34need to put support back into the people who matter most, and that is the workforce of Aberdeen.
33:39Thanks, Stephen. Andrew? Yeah, thanks, Stephen. It's very unusual that I agree with everything Stephen
33:44says, but I know I agree completely with everything Stephen just said. And the fact
33:47is that we have a situation right now in that the message is going out from the UK government that
33:53the North Sea is closed for business. If you're sitting as an international shareholder or a board
33:59in France or the Middle East or in Houston, and you're looking at basins in which to invest,
34:04are you really going to invest in a basin where the fiscal framework is so uncertain, where the rate
34:09of tax is so high, where the investment allowances have been removed, where there is a ban on all new
34:14licenses, and where you've got a government that refuses to talk up positively what is our,
34:19I think one of our nation's greatest assets, which is the oil and gas that we have out in the North
34:24Sea. The impact is being felt here in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire specifically with the loss of jobs by
34:29Harbour this week. But we, as has already been spoken out, have seen the loss of jobs in the supply
34:34chain, the reduction in the size of the supply chain, the trickle overseas of that skills base,
34:39which we're going to need, by the way, to invest in the new technologies that will get us that cleaner
34:42future. And there is just a complete lack of understanding of how this industry works,
34:48and the investment that brings into the United Kingdom, the skills base that it maintains here
34:52in the United Kingdom, and how that will contribute to our energy security and our clean future moving
34:57forward. So I echo Stephen's call for the Prime Minister, for Ed Miliband, for the Chancellor,
35:02to come to Aberdeen and to understand this industry more. We need to speed up the consultation into what's going to
35:07replace the EPL. The Treasury need to make a decision on that now. We need to remove the
35:13nonsensical ban on new licences, and we need to start talking up this industry and the asset that
35:18we have underneath our own waters out in the North Sea. Thanks, Andrew. That's really helpful. I think
35:24probably what I would say, and I think Becca would make the point, the trickle that you mentioned
35:27actually is becoming a waterfall of supply chain loss, that they're having to go where the work is,
35:34and it's not here. I'm just going to quickly go along the panel, maybe starting with Kerry. One
35:38liner. What needs to happen next? What would you like to see happen? The government take action and
35:43remove the EPL. Okay, thanks, Steve. Final thoughts? That's been said, I'll make one point. This is very
35:49far from an Aberdeen-only issue. If you look at what happened in Runcorn, the London-based media,
35:56for some reason, seem to miss the fact that reform won Runcorn because of oil and gas. Runcorn contains
36:02Stanlow, which is the ex-shell refinery, the second largest refinery in the UK. There are 800 people
36:08work there. Remember that reform, that election, that by-election was two days after Grangemouth refined
36:15its last oil. So, you know, would we believe that three people who worked at Stanlow looked at what
36:21happened at Grangemouth on Tuesday and on Thursday voted reform because they knew the direction of
36:26travel under Labour for their employment. I'm absolutely convinced that that's the case.
36:33And I think that Labour should heed that warning because the alternative is not to continue with
36:40what they're doing. The alternative is that come 2029, the entire net zero agenda under Labour and the
36:46Conservative government before them is swept away by reform. So, I think this is a critical
36:51issue that the Labour government needs to pay urgent attention to and really have a fundamental reset.
36:57Thanks, Em. Donna?
37:00Listen, engage and the humanity of it. And while sympathy and thoughts and wishes are great,
37:07the last time I looked that didn't pay the food bill or the rent bill. So, I think we have to put
37:12the humanity back into this. This is people's lives. And, you know, if the unintended consequence of
37:18decision-making is palatable, then so be it. But I would challenge if that was the case.
37:24Thank you. And Sean?
37:25Yeah, I think I'd like to sum up GMB's position as, you know, plans, not bans. The sector needs fiscal
37:34certainty and viability and it's for the government and industry to achieve that. But lifting the ban on
37:38future production licences would boost confidence amongst workers. And that's why GMB calls on the UK
37:45government to allow the continued exploration and extraction from new and existing oil and gas
37:50fields. So that as long as we require oil and gas to help meet our energy needs and to develop
37:56a fair tax regime for the sector that secures investment for the energy transition and strengthens
38:01all parts of the UK's wider energy and manufacturing industries.
38:04Thanks, Sean. So just to round up, very often we say, well, we can't do anything about that. But the
38:11solutions to this are firmly in our hands. Is it too late? It nearly is. But if we take the right
38:20action now at pace, we still have a chance to reverse some of what we've been talking about this morning.
38:27This isn't a region that needs bailouts. We just need that change in government policy
38:32and some targeted strategic interventions before this does become an economic black hole that will
38:39require multiple billions in regeneration and investment over decades. So NDPL now, it's not fit
38:47for purpose or required. Maximise the North Sea's potential. Back the ACORN carbon capture project to meet
38:55our climate plan and protect and create thousands of jobs. And the call goes out again to the
39:02prime minister, to his cabinet, to the first minister, because this isn't just a UK issue. This is a
39:08particular issue for Scotland. Come to an emergency summit in Aberdeen. Meet with industry.
39:14Meet with affected workers, as we've seen happen in other places. Thank you for coming this morning.
39:21And have a great Friday. Thank you.