James O'Brien discusses the appointment by Castleford Tigers of Chris Chester as their new director of rugby before looking ahead to this weekend's Challenge Cup semi-finals which see Hull Kr go up against Catalans Dragons in the last four of the men's draw, while Leeds Rhinos take on Wigan Warriors and York Valkyrie face St Helens in the women's competition
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00:00Hello and welcome to the latest Rugby League Talk podcast from the Yorkshire Post.
00:12We're joined as ever by our Rugby League correspondent James O'Brien.
00:18We're coming into a Challenge Cup weekend, semi-final time for both the men's and the
00:22women's competitions. We're going to get onto that in a short while, but first we're going
00:27to start with some fairly big news that came out on Thursday morning. The fact that Chris
00:34Chester has made the switch from Lee Leopards over to Cassford Tigers to become their director
00:39of rugby. Big news for Cass, this big news and sort of further indication or further proof
00:47of the owner Martin Jepson's plans and hopes and ambitions for the club, etc. James, you
00:53reported on the appointment this morning. It's only good news for Castleford, isn't it?
01:01Particularly given the impact that Chester has had over at Lee over the last couple of years
01:06or since his appointment.
01:07Yeah, no, it's absolutely massive. I don't think they could have wished to have got someone more
01:14qualified for the role, basically. The workers on at Lee, when he went in there, they'd only
01:19have just been relegated to the championship. So he had a big job on his hands there within,
01:24I think they only lost two games following season under Adrian Lamb, who he brought to
01:28the club. Obviously, they were looking for a coach at the time. I'm not suggesting he's
01:32going to get rid of Danny. We'll go ahead and bring someone else in. And the recruitment
01:36he did spoke for itself. The team that he, the squad that he assembled there won the Challenge
01:42Cup within a few months of being back in Super. He got in the playoffs that year and now
01:45they're firmly established at the top end. So he's done an amazing job. He did an amazing
01:50job at Lee. And Castleford have obviously seen that from afar and thought, well, we'll
01:54have a piece of that and get him in here. It's a tough ask at Cass. It's not the easiest
01:59place to recruit to, even though he's on the doorstep of Leeds. Like, Leeds, quite close
02:05to Manchester. Obviously, Cass is just as close to Leeds. And that can be a pull for players
02:10who want to live in a bigger city or what have you and be close to things. But the
02:15club itself, obviously, has fallen on hard times. They've not qualified for the playoffs
02:18since 2019. Not been close in recent years. They got quite close under Lee Radford in 2022,
02:25I think it was. But yeah, they've been falling away since. The recruitment has picked up in
02:29recent weeks. They couldn't do it in the off-season because the personnel that they wanted either
02:34wasn't there or they didn't want to come to Cass. It's easier in the early stages of the
02:38season when players are out of favour elsewhere and what have you, like Tom Vaughan, for instance,
02:42who was at Lee under Chris Chester. He became available. Cass snapped him up. But now they've
02:48got to get it right in the off-season and that's where Chris Chester comes in and that's his
02:51biggest, his first big job, really. He's got to start working on the 2026 squad and there's
02:57a fair bit of work to do as well. So it's not going to be an easy job, but he's shown that
02:59he can oversee these rebuilds and bring success to a club.
03:03And where is it in particular you feel that Cass need to strengthen and where will his
03:11sort of test of his mettle be in that respect in terms of the recruitment?
03:15No, that's a good question. I think the pack's been a problem for a while. They have identified
03:20that. They've brought in a couple of short-term signings and they've obviously brought in Brad
03:26Singleton and Tom Amona who I've mentioned as well. So they are beefing up that area of the
03:29field and you can't really do anything in rugby league without a strong pack laying the
03:35platform. But yeah, they need quality in all areas really. They are lacking. They've probably
03:41got the weakest squad, I'd say, in Super League. Huddersfield, well, before Salford got ripped
03:48to pieces, bless them. But I do think Huddersfield have probably got a stronger squad when they
03:53have all the players fit as well. So there is a lot of work to do to that squad in all areas
03:57really. But they need to get the pack right first and foremost.
04:00OK, moving on. We're going to look at the Challenge Cup now. Obviously just the one bit of Yorkshire
04:07interest with Hull KR taking on Catalan's Dragons in the Men's Challenge Cup on Saturday. The
04:13other semi-final between Warrington and Lee. So Chris Chester will no doubt be more interested
04:21in that game perhaps. But obviously he's interested in the future, obviously going to like Cass.
04:27But just in terms of Hull KR, James, they'll go into this game, given the start to the season
04:33that they've had, they'll go into this game as clear favourites, won't they?
04:37Yeah, I think there's eight points in there between Hull KR and Catalan on the table, which
04:42probably shows the gap between the two sides at the moment. But Catalan have been a bit
04:46of a bogey side for Hull KR in recent years, particularly on French soil over here. Hull KR
04:52have got the better of them, although Catalan are the only other side other than Wigan that
04:56have beaten Hull KR in the past year. And that was in Golden Point. But the last time the players
05:03Hull KR did, yeah, they ran up a big score at Magic Weekend last year. So, okay, I've
05:09got those fresh memories. But yeah, there's no chance to underestimate Catalan. They've
05:14been stung by him a fair few times in recent years, as I've said. And they have often got
05:20beat up in the middle as well. I don't think that'll happen this year with the pack Hull KR.
05:25It didn't happen last year at Magic Weekend either. Hull KR have really firmed up in the middle
05:30and I think they'll take it. They'll give as good as they get against Catalan if not more
05:35than match them in the middle. And if they do that, they'll win the game. I believe they've
05:39got, obviously, the flair players like Mike Lewis and the outside backs to put Catalan
05:44to the sword. And that's what I'd expect to happen. The only concern, if that's the right
05:48word you'd have about Hull KR, is the pressure and expectation. This is the first time they've
05:53been to the semi-final. This is, sorry, this is the fourth consecutive semi-final, but the
05:57first time that they're going as favourites, not just for the game, but the competition as a whole
06:01as well. That brings a different kind of pressure. But the way they've been performing this year,
06:06they've had one black against Wigan. But aside from that, they've dealt with every challenge.
06:10So, I'd expect them to do the same this weekend as well.
06:14A massive opportunity for them, isn't it? I mean, I know the roster is still another 80 minutes away
06:18from actually lifting silverware, but to get to that final would take them as close
06:23as they've been, you know, in the intervening year since they last tasted success.
06:27Yeah. Obviously, they did get to the final two years ago, and if things work out,
06:33well, it feels like the stars have already aligned for Hull KR to play Lee again at Wembley
06:39in a repeat of 2023, and that had just a heap of a bit more pressure on Hull KR,
06:43the fact that Lee picked them two years ago in Golden Point.
06:47Yeah, yeah.
06:48But, yeah, I think this is probably their best chance because they're only two games away
06:53from winning something, but they are right up there in the league leader shield battle.
06:57I'd expect that to be a two-horse race. So, they have got a fallback there, and of course,
07:02if everything goes upon the finish in the top two, they've got a great chance to get back to Old Trafford.
07:06But in the here and now, this is their best chance, and they've got to take it, really.
07:10Wigan have gone. There's no Wigan in the way that Wigan are.
07:13There's a side that they can't get over the top at the moment.
07:16And also, they're just better positioned than two years ago.
07:19They're a far better team, perhaps, than two years ago.
07:21Yeah, they are.
07:22It's a far deeper team.
07:23That's it, yeah. They've got a lot more depth and a lot more experience,
07:26not just within the team, but the guys they've brought in as well,
07:29like McLaurin, obviously, who's not playing this weekend,
07:32and Murray Hargreaves, who will be huge in a game like this.
07:35In York on Saturday.
07:38So, yeah, I think they've got all bases covered, really,
07:41as long as they get that mental side right.
07:44Yeah. Just, obviously, as I mentioned earlier there,
07:49it's also a Challenge Cup weekend in the women's competition.
07:54St. Helens take on York Valkyrie on Sunday, and Leeds Rhinos' host,
08:01not host, sorry, but take on Wigan Warriors, sorry, on the Saturday.
08:05But interestingly, in today's sort of media round, as it were,
08:11it's basically, it was highlighted, I guess, really, how big a weekend this is for the women's game.
08:18York Valkyrie boss, Lindsay Anfield, was talking, wasn't she, James, about how she hopes these semifinals
08:24can repair some of the damage caused by England's Las Vegas test against Australia earlier this year,
08:29back in March, when they were hit 90 points to four.
08:33And something that obviously clearly highlighted the gulf between the NRLW and the Super League,
08:39which, you know, compared to the NRLW, is still part-time.
08:44And do you feel that these semifinals are an important moment for the women's game in some ways over here?
08:50Yeah, I think it's the first opportunity, really, to get back on track as a competition over here.
08:56There needs to be two really competitive semifinals, I think.
08:59But there is a standout for top four, sorry, in women's rugby league over here,
09:04and that's the four that are playing this weekend, no one gets close to them,
09:07and that's part of the problem, that there is no depth, competition-wise, beyond those four clubs.
09:13If those four clubs aren't playing each other, they're hammering someone else, basically,
09:18and it's not a great place to be in, but it's still very early in the competition's history.
09:24So, yeah, it's a tough one, because that test in Vegas, it did highlight just how far the game over here,
09:33it's from Australia, but there were no surprises there, really.
09:36Perhaps the margin was a surprise, no one perhaps thought it would get out that much,
09:40but it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation.
09:43The women's game does need to become professional over here to close the gap,
09:46but without greater investment and that competitiveness we've mentioned,
09:49it still feels some way off, so...
09:52Is it a case of women's games trying to get there quicker than it actually can?
09:56And that people perhaps just need, you know, it's the same with everything these days.
10:00There's a certain pace about things, isn't there, that people can't wait, you know,
10:04but there's got to be a sort of a bit of a waiting game, essentially,
10:08a bit more patience displayed surrounding the women's game in order for it to sort of get to a position,
10:14and if that takes five years, it takes five years.
10:16If it takes ten years, it takes ten years to get to the stage where they can be competitive
10:20against their counterparts in Australia.
10:22No, you're absolutely right there.
10:24It's something Craig Lingard said last year.
10:26It's a bit of a microwave-ready society now.
10:29Everyone wants it now, don't they?
10:30As he found out, he got burnt himself, didn't he, at the end of the year?
10:34Yeah.
10:35But yeah, that's exactly right.
10:36Everyone wants it now.
10:37Everyone wants to see progress immediately, and if it doesn't come,
10:41people are calling for heads or what have you.
10:43But yeah, I don't envy who's in charge, who's heading up the women's game,
10:49because it is a big job and the interest was there after the World Cup in 2022.
10:55They had a real springboard there, but it's not quite kicked on because,
10:58like I say, everyone wants to see teams competing with St.
11:02Ellen's Wigan.
11:03Wigan have improved in the last couple of years.
11:06So now it's four rather than three, but obviously it needs to...
11:12It's taken the men's Super League a very long time to get to this point.
11:16Still only four clubs have won it, so they haven't quite cracked it yet.
11:21It's more competitive.
11:22You see the likes of Leeds towards the bottom end.
11:24Warrington, for instance, who have been down there in recent years.
11:28But it does take time, and it is going to take probably a very long time.
11:32But it isn't great when you see the third-ranked country in the world
11:36getting hammered by 90 points by the number one-ranked side.
11:40But yeah, it does worry you at the end of the World Cup next year.
11:44The Women's World Cup goes to Australia next year.
11:47And that's probably going to be Australia-New Zealand final again,
11:50unless England...
11:52Well, it is a big ask, isn't it, in the space of a year to improve that much,
11:55to get close to them too.
11:57But yeah, you've just got to hope and pray for the women's game.
12:00And it is a good support. The girls try their hearts out.
12:05But while you're part-time, there's only so much you can do, I guess.
12:09We've seen even in the men's game,
12:11when part-time sides come up against full-time sides,
12:15it can get messy, and that's just what happened there.
12:17But yeah.
12:19It's a lot of messiness, isn't it?
12:20Both in terms of financial and time.
12:23Yeah, that's it.
12:24And they are paying expenses now, but expenses only go so far.
12:27These girls still have to work through the week,
12:29and then they've got a lot more responsibilities than that as well,
12:32being parents, mothers.
12:34So it's a big ask in it,
12:36especially when you're going up against these full-time athletes in Australia.
12:39And that Australia side would probably beat a few men's sides as well,
12:44in the lower league.
12:45So there's no disgrace in losing.
12:46It's just the will's there and the effort's there,
12:49and we'll get there eventually, but it will take time, like I say.
12:52Mmm.
12:53Mmh.
12:54Sure.
12:56Alyssa,