At today's Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE) questioned FBI Director Kash Patel about tweeting the photo of the arrest of a Wisconsin judge.
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00:00Thank you very much, Chair, in ranking, and thank you, Director Patel.
00:06I appreciate your being here today.
00:07I'm the co-chair of the Law Enforcement Caucus in the Senate with Senator Cornyn,
00:12and as someone who had responsibility for the second-largest law enforcement in my admittedly small state.
00:18For the decade before I came here, I got to see the importance of the FBI as a training resource,
00:23as a critical technical and law enforcement partner for state and local law enforcement in my state.
00:30Just this past year, in November, the FBI and Delaware law enforcement successfully investigated
00:37and arrested an individual who was leading a human trafficking ring,
00:41just a reminder of how federal-state-local partnership can make a huge difference.
00:46We're here at the Appropriations Committee.
00:48As best I understand where we are, you have not submitted an appropriations request.
00:55What we've got from the administration is a so-called skinny budget, just a few sentences,
01:01and it asks for $545 million in cuts to the FBI.
01:06I believe you testified yesterday to House appropriations that you would request $11.1 billion.
01:13The administration's request is $10.1 billion.
01:15I'm familiar with the dynamics of differences between what agencies could productively use
01:22and what administrations request.
01:25But I'll be blunt, I'm concerned about the trajectory the administration has taken on funding law enforcement.
01:32DOGE cut, through the Office of Justice Programs at DOJ,
01:36365 grants totaling more than $800 million.
01:39And they were not all DEI or climate change or things that didn't support the president's agenda.
01:47They cut grants that aided victims of crime, violent crime investigators' programs,
01:54programs combating child abuse.
01:57I am not in any way suggesting that you were responsible for that.
02:00I'm just saying there seems to me to be a tension between those of us who want to robustly support federal law enforcement
02:07in the absence of any request from you here today.
02:11Will you return to this committee for us to have an appropriations hearing once there is actually a budget request from the FBI?
02:20I will speak to, this being my first go-around, Senator, I'll speak to the Department of Justice and circle back with you on that.
02:28Please, because bluntly at your confirmation hearing, you answered questions from Senator Padilla, Senator Britt,
02:34about the urgency of retaining your workforce, investing in training.
02:38I believe you testified yesterday that if the budget request submitted by the administration was enacted,
02:45you'd have to lay off 1,300 agents.
02:47Is that accurate?
02:48There's a little more nuance to it than that.
02:52The folks that have taken what we call the fork in the road initiatives have filled that number
02:59in terms of how many would have to be quote-unquote laid off, and then there's the...
03:05Leave federal service, which is an important reduction in the force that you have available to you to fight crime.
03:10But those folks have already entered that program or are in it now.
03:15I look forward to getting an actual appropriations request from the administration and to going over it with you.
03:22Let me just renew one other specific question.
03:25Eligibility for the FERS annuity supplement.
03:28FERS is the federal employee's retirement system.
03:30If, in fact, the reconciliation bill that the House Oversight Committee is considering removes eligibility,
03:39this would deprive thousands of agents of tens of thousands of dollars a year in earned benefits
03:44and would have a real impact on early retirement and on recruitment and retention.
03:50What are you doing about this threat to the FERS retirement benefit eligibility?
03:55Senator, one of your colleagues asked me a similar question, and I will get back to you on that specifics of what's happening with FERS.
04:02One of my top priorities, as we discussed before, is preventing IP theft, particularly from the CCP.
04:09They've been particularly aggressive at stealing America's inventions and innovations.
04:13I was pleased to see you reference this in your testimony.
04:16Tony, what's the FBI doing to address threats to American inventions and innovation,
04:20and would an increase in funding allow increased efforts in this area?
04:25Taking that in reverse order, with more money we can do more, Senator, put simply.
04:29But when it comes to all things CCP, it is, if not the number one priority every day,
04:36it's almost the number one priority every day, especially when it comes to what they're stealing from us,
04:41both on the IP side and the agricultural side.
04:44So we have rededicated more FBI personnel to investigate how they are doing that.
04:52And I'm also working with both the private and public sector engagements,
04:56because we don't at the FBI possess the capabilities alone to suss out what they're doing and how they're doing and blocking it.
05:03So that's something I think is a critical and important initiative for you and for your agency.
05:08We also talked about FISA reform.
05:12In April of last year, the Senate reauthorized FISA Section 702 for two additional years
05:18and codified some of the FBI's internal reforms.
05:22And those reforms were a big reason why, for the first time ever,
05:26I voted in reauthorization of Section 702, about which I've had some real concerns.
05:31Can you give us some update on the FBI's implementation of these reforms
05:36and tell us what changes to Section 02 you might anticipate requesting
05:40when it comes up for reauthorization next year?
05:43I can tell you that we have been, as a former terrorism prosecutor and a member of the IC
05:47who has used 702 successfully and is a former public defender
05:51who has stood up for violations of civil rights and constitutional violations,
05:55it's a delicate balance for me.
05:56I am for the renewal of Section 702 with the modifications that have already been made
06:02and have some ideas about how to make it better going forward.
06:07And in terms of how we've ingested the changes to 702 that were put in before I got here,
06:14I look back at the statistics and I'll get them to you, the concrete ones.
06:18But I think prior to the changes made, there was hundreds of misuses of 702 internally,
06:27and now we have found one which we believe was an actual mistake.
06:30So I think we're trending in the right direction.
06:34And I understand the concerns about, you know, 702 queries against U.S. citizens.
06:38I also understand the challenge when it comes to search warrants versus lifetime action,
06:42and that's something we're just going to have to work with you on.
06:45Well, this is an important balance I look forward to hearing from you about and working with you on.
06:49You've also testified just yesterday in front of House Appropriations
06:53that you are orienting the FBI looking forward.
06:56There won't be any actions against FBI agents based on what they did
07:02in terms of carrying out assignments to investigate January 6th incidents.
07:08During your confirmation, you said there will be no retribution taken by the FBI
07:13should you be confirmed as director.
07:15James Dennehy, who was head of the New York field office, has been forced out,
07:19received no reason for his removal, but had resisted efforts to turn over a list of agents
07:25involved in January 6th investigations.
07:28That's how I've understood the characterization of his separation,
07:31and that sounds to me like politicization and retribution for involvement in January 6th.
07:37I just want to hear your statement about where you see any disciplinary actions related to January 6th investigations.
07:48Thank you, Senator.
07:49With the ongoing litigation related to the specific list, there's only so much I can talk about,
07:57but I can tell you this with affirmation.
08:00No one on any list will be punished at the FBI.
08:03As someone who was given case assignments I didn't want many times over, you don't get punished for your case assignments.
08:10You only get punished if you didn't do the job and fail to follow the ethical guidelines and break the law,
08:14and that's the standard.
08:15The Judiciary Committee recently had two career prosecutors in front of them who were dismissed explicitly for their involvement
08:22in prosecuting January 6th cases.
08:24I understand that's not the FBI.
08:26I hope to work with you on ensuring that we orient the FBI forward.
08:32In February, I did join all my judiciary colleagues to send then-acting Director Driscoll letters about proposed purges
08:39of agents for simply carrying out their assignments.
08:41Do you know if you've answered that letter?
08:45I'll have to check, Senator.
08:46Sorry.
08:47I'll tell you that I haven't received a response, and I expect a response.
08:52More importantly, I expect a budget and appropriations request so we can do our job as the relevant appropriations subcommittee.
08:58Thank you, Director.
08:59Thank you, sir.
09:01Senator Coons, I'm the one who-