During a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing on Tuesday, Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) spoke about support staff at USDA.
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00:00Shaheen, in her new role, as the two of you lead this committee, it's a really critical one.
00:05Secretary Rollins, thank you for being here.
00:07Let me be really frank with you.
00:09The very mission of USDA is under incredible threat from this administration.
00:15We are seeing dedicated researchers and experts who are being pushed out the door.
00:20Research safety efforts have been put on hold.
00:23Funds that Congress passed have been frozen and canceled by this administration.
00:28And nearly $17 billion in investments are now being held up at USDA.
00:34That, to me, is really unacceptable and needs to change.
00:37We are seeing our food banks with less, increased prices at the grocery store.
00:43We are seeing Forest Service personnel who have been fired.
00:46They respond to our wildfires.
00:48We need them.
00:49Experts working on avian flu gone.
00:52And my farmers are extremely concerned about these illegal funding freezes and the illegal tariffs that are impacting them.
01:03We also know that 15,000 employees have been pushed out.
01:07That's more than 15 percent of your department.
01:09We know USDA cannot help farmers or communities without the people and the resources that it needs, which is really, to me, why this arbitrary workforce cuts combined with the sweeping cuts that President Trump proposed in the new budget that we just got is really alarming.
01:28Secretary Rollins, let me just say to you, this committee needs a lot more information about how your department is spending this funding that Congress provided earlier this year and the FY25 spend plan that you submitted last year, required by law, part of the continuing resolution, just isn't satisfactory.
01:47We need to have that information in order to write our appropriations bills.
01:52And I just want you to know I expect you to work with members on both sides of this aisle to provide the details so we understand how you're spending money and what is actually needed in the coming year.
02:04That is why I think that's what I really want you to know and why I especially wanted to be here today.
02:10But I do have some some questions for you because in Washington State, my home state and across the country,
02:16these abrupt terminations and resignations of ARS scientists and support staff have really gutted some of our vital agricultural research research programs overnight.
02:28This is really undermining years of progress, research on plant diseases, making crops more resilient, extreme weather.
02:35That work is really fundamental to our farmers, and they are deeply worried about that being gone.
02:41And I know that many of the ARS scientists have been reinstated.
02:46Essential support staff has not.
02:48So will you commit to taking steps to reinstate the ARS support staff and stabilize these research units across the country?
02:58Well, there was a lot in that, Senator.
03:00So I'll try to talk really quickly and answer as much as I can.
03:02And then please reach out to me directly.
03:05And we can always have this conversation anytime.
03:07I don't think you were in here, but I've had long conversations with members on both sides of the aisle about all of this in the last couple of months.
03:15So I welcome that conversation anytime.
03:17The first thing I want to say is the 15,000 number, it is less than 15 percent of our total workforce.
03:23I realize that's still a very, very big number.
03:26But I think it's important to realize in the context that every year USDA, through attrition, loses between 8,000 and 10,000 employees.
03:33So as a massive government agency.
03:36But they're refilled.
03:38Well, and that's what we are looking to refill.
03:40The frontliners, that's what I was talking about, right now.
03:42So whether it's FSA, APHIS, the wildland firefighters, those are through a memorandum I just signed.
03:47We are actively looking and recruiting to fill those positions that are integral to the efforts and the key frontlines.
03:54So you let people go and you're looking for new people to fill the positions that they had experienced in?
03:58We're having those discussions right now.
04:01We are working with all of you around the country in your states.
04:04We believe our firefighters are operationally ready for wildfire season.
04:09Our FSA offices, we're looking, you know, we're making things more efficient.
04:12But bringing on new people that could potentially bring and be a game changer in those offices.
04:18But by the way, the people that you're talking about, the 15,000, those were all deferred resignations.
04:22None of those people were fired.
04:24So if they want to come back and if they were in a key position, then we would love to have that conversation.
04:30The other thing in the second round of DRPs, which just happened about, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago,
04:34we did not accept the DRPs of employees that were in those key positions that I outlined.
04:40That a few of them, I think we had several hundred that said, all right, we're going to take it.
04:44And we said, no, those are your role is too important right now.
04:47We're not going to accept it.
04:48So we are very intentionally approaching this.
04:51Have we done it perfectly?
04:52No.
04:53Any type of whole scale change and big effort to basically realign an entire government agency is difficult.
05:02And we know that and we know that it hasn't been perfect.
05:04But we're working every day to solve for a lot of this.
05:07And I think we're making a lot of really good progress.
05:09Okay, well, you didn't answer my question specifically on ARS scientists, research, the support staff.
05:15Well, what I would love if you or your team could get us exactly what you're talking about,
05:20who you're talking about, and where you're talking about it.
05:22Because we've been, like I say, line by line, keeping the staff in place where we believe it's of utmost importance
05:28and aligns with the agency's mission in areas where we don't believe we haven't been as focused on that.
05:33But again, that's a conversation I would so welcome to understand exactly where and what that looks like.
05:39That's important, but this is on record.
05:41And so one of my concerns is that you let people go however you want to characterize it, who knew these jobs.
05:47And now you're looking for people to fill these jobs because now we know how essential they are.
05:51That doesn't seem to me to be very efficient.
05:53But I need to ask you about nutrition programs in my last minute here because we have about 134,000 people in Washington State,
06:027 million people nationwide who rely on WIC.
06:05It provides, as you know, essential nutrition support to moms and kids during the earliest, most vulnerable stages of life.
06:13It is one of the most effective programs that we have.
06:16It's always received bipartisan support on this committee.
06:20It is glaringly absent from the president's budget request.
06:24WIC, SNAP, CSFP, these are really key important programs for seniors.
06:29They're not optional.
06:31They're essential programs that feed moms and babies and the elderly.
06:35So I wanted to ask you, do you fully support funding WIC, yes or no?
06:40Well, okay, so are you talking about the LFS and LFPA contracts that were canceled or SNAP?
06:50I'm talking about the budget that came over to us on Friday.
07:00WIC is fully funded.
07:03SNAP is, so that's why I'm confused by your question.
07:05I'm sorry, Senator.
07:06Well, in our looking at this, it is absent.
07:08I'm happy to get the information to you, but this, for this committee, I know it's something we have always supported on a bipartisan basis.
07:16It is something we need to continue.
07:17Yeah, WIC is fully funded.
07:19I'm happy to talk SNAP or some of the other cuts, but.
07:23Yeah, WIC, it is eliminated in the budget that the president sent on Friday.
07:29We also thought that.
07:31We'll clarify that and get that right back to you.
07:34I know there have been some realigning in SNAP and in some of the food banks, et cetera.
07:39That's kind of where we've been talking and focusing on.
07:41For the committee members, the president sent over his budget on Friday.
07:45It does eliminate WIC in it, so we obviously need to have better information from the administration.
07:50Our understanding is that, I mean, number one, we fully funded WIC in the last go-around in the CR.
07:57As you know, Senator, and our understanding is that just in the skinny budget, it just wasn't included.
08:04It's funded for this year.
08:05Yeah, it's funded.
08:06This is the skinny budget.
08:07There are things we don't have yet, so that at least was our understanding.
08:10It's fully funded.
08:15You're welcome.
08:16Thank you, Senator Murray.
08:17Thank you, Senator Murray.
08:18Thank you, Senator Murray.