During a Senate Commerce Committee hearing on Thursday, Sen. Ben Ray Lujan (D-NM) spoke about the Trump administration's withholding of $68 million of congressionally appropriated funding for a small business program.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Thank you. Senator Lujan.
00:03Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that very much.
00:06Mr. DeBar, thank you for being before us today.
00:12The first question I have, Mr. DeBar, it's a continuation of something that my colleague was just inquiring about
00:20and having a conversation with you.
00:24Congress appropriated over $68 million to the MBDA.
00:29Are you aware what the MBDA is?
00:31Yes, I am, Senator.
00:33Now, the $68 million that was funded here is under the current funding bill.
00:39So this is recent. This is now.
00:42So the agency could effectively carry out its mission to promote growth and expand economic opportunities.
00:49But as you may be aware, and I'll ask you if you are aware,
00:53Secretary Lutnik and the Trump administration have dismantled the MBDA.
00:57Are you aware of that?
00:58I only know what I've picked up from the press.
01:02You're here today to be a leader at the Department of Commerce.
01:07Have you taken time to study the Department of Commerce?
01:09I certainly have, but I don't know every detail at the department right now.
01:13That's one of the ones that I don't know the details on the current status.
01:17What areas are you strongest in your knowledge base with the Department of Commerce?
01:21Well, certainly the area of China security.
01:25As you know, I ran lab efforts in your state extensively as well as some of the nuclear operations.
01:32So the China topic, which I recently testified before ENR on about two months ago.
01:38I think I have quite a lot of experience.
01:41Obviously, I ran the bulk of the National Quantum Initiative.
01:44I built four number one supercomputers.
01:48So while I was a DOE, I ran WIP.
01:53I ran WIP.
01:54So we also generated vast amounts of patents.
01:59As you know, under Bayh-Dole and Stevens and Weiler.
02:03I could keep going, Senator.
02:04But there's a reasonable amount of things that I have quite a bit of exposure to.
02:09In all of those responsibilities, did you ever work with small businesses?
02:13Oh, absolutely.
02:14In particular, at environmental management at DOE, if you may remember the small business topic at DOE that certainly New Mexico was part of.
02:26Is it fair to say you support small business success?
02:29Yes, Senator.
02:30I would encourage you to learn more about the MBDA.
02:34The MBDA was created to help with small business success.
02:37Subcontracting with prime contracts, looking at the major initiatives and investments that America has always had depends on success with small businesses.
02:45The MBDA is the only kind that exists to be able to provide more support.
02:53And I would argue it's the only one within the Department of Commerce.
02:56It's why there was broad support, bipartisan support for this.
03:00Very small investment, I would argue, when you look at the United States budget, $68 million.
03:05And it's very concerning when the secretary, when he was here before us as a nominee, said he also supported small businesses.
03:12And he's leading efforts with Donald Trump to eliminate one of the components that exist, and I would argue ignoring law.
03:19This is in the laws that were passed by the legislative branch of government.
03:23And one of the prime responsibilities, I'm sure you've been asked by several of my colleagues about the MBDA today.
03:28So my question simply is, because this was under current funding, is where did the money go?
03:34So do you know where the department has diverted the millions of dollars Congress appropriated to the MBDA?
03:40As I mentioned, Senator, I'm not confirmed.
03:44I don't have, you know, insight into individual line items spending at the department right now.
03:49So if confirmed, will you commit to tracing these funds and reporting back to this committee on where, specifically, our money, taxpayer money for the MBDA has been rerouted?
04:00I can absolutely commit that I have, that I have, and I have a long track record of being, of coming back in for oversight before the Senate and the House when I was under secretary.
04:11And that I will continue to do that if I'm so lucky to get your vote.
04:15I appreciate that. I'm looking for a specific commitment in this very narrow space.
04:19Will you commit to tracing these funds and reporting back to this committee on where, specifically, this money has been rerouted?
04:28I don't know if it's been rerouted or not, Senator, but when it comes to financial accountability for anything in the department, including that program, you have my commitment.
04:36Let me ask the question differently, then. If the word rerouted is what we're going to get hung up on.
04:41Will you commit to tracing these funds and reporting back to the committee where they are?
04:47Absolutely. About any funding at the department, you absolutely have my commitment that you will have proper feedback for oversight like I did when I was under secretary.
04:59Does that include specifically this money for the MBDA?
05:02I will certainly look into that, too, Senator. Yes.
05:05Will you commit to getting back to this committee and reporting where the money is?
05:08I will certainly I will certainly look into it. And if you ask a question, we will respond.
05:12I'm asking. I'm asking right now, will you commit to get back to it?
05:17It's yes or no. It's not. I'm going to look into this.
05:19I'm going to theoretically try to figure out something.
05:23I mean, the money may be somewhere. It may have rerouted as a word that clearly is is a bit of distance between us.
05:30Can you just say yes or no? If the answer is no, the answer is no. I respect that.
05:34I will commit to follow every dollar and report back as as you request on anything in the department.
05:40I'll be very surprised if you do not get confirmed, given the votes and the natures with all these confirmations.
05:47You will be in this role. If you keep your word, you will be back for oversight hearings.
05:54And I'm sharing with you right now. I will be asking about it if I need to.
05:59I'll send a formal letter. I'll ask all my colleagues that voted for this funding to get onto that letter.
06:04So that one of the first letters that you have when you go and you sit at your new desk will be this question.
06:11If I can be clear about that. Is that clear?
06:13It is clear. And I would like to highlight that having run vast operations in your state,
06:19including very, very sensitive environmental management topics and Carlsbad and Los Alamos and quantum operations at Sandia.
06:29I think I have a large track record with many, many people in your state on many topics in terms of all sorts of things, including accountability.
06:38Appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.