At a House Oversight Committee hearing on Wednesday, Rep. James Comer (R-KY) and Rep. Melanie Stansbury (D-NM) spoke about the reconciliation bill.
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00:00Thank you Mr. Chairman. I have an amendment at the desk. Yeah the clerk will
00:07distribute the amendment to all members. The clerk will designate the
00:10amendment. An amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to fiscal
00:14year 2025 budget reconciliation committee print providing for
00:17reconciliation pursuant to house concurrent resolution 14 is offered by
00:20Mr. Lynch of Massachusetts. Without objection the amendment is considered as
00:23read. I reserve a point of order. The gentleman is recognized for five minutes
00:26to explain his amendment. Thank you Mr. Chairman. First of all I want to thank
00:32Mr. Turner for defending federal workers and his own employees as they would be
00:39affected adversely by this legislation. Every member, every member, their
00:45employees will also be affected in a similar way. Every federal employee in
00:50their districts will be affected, will be harmed by this bill. In the interest of
00:57the federal workforce that remains free of partisan influence and political
01:01cronyism, my amendment would strike the section of the bill that seeks to force
01:06new federal workers to surrender their due process rights and their employee
01:10protections and accept a new job classification as quote at will, at will
01:16employees. Subject to termination for any reason. Now as a as a former union
01:22president and and as a labor attorney and an employment attorney I just want to make
01:27sure people understand what at will means. An at will employee can can be fired for any
01:34reason or for no reason. So so here's the president he's trying to force everybody
01:41now obviously he would like to have partisans on his his side brought into
01:46government. The sad fact is that all those people can be fired for no reason.
01:52For any reason. So it'll create this massive turnover if people are even willing to come
01:59on to the federal payroll with without the benefits that they're going to get in with
02:04the with the changes that are being made made here today. The bill before us presents
02:09incoming federal employees with the Hobson's choice. You can elect to give away all your
02:14rights, all your rights, all your basic job protections that prevent you from being arbitrarily
02:20fired and have your or have your retirement contribution rate go up by an additional
02:28five percent of your your pay. That's on top of the four point four percent that's already
02:34coming out of your paycheck. So it approximates 10 percent of your your pay. If you if you want
02:41your rights, if you want to have rights as an employee, you need to you need to pay all this
02:47additional money. And that's for the duration of your your employment. Alternatively, you can agree
02:54to waive your your employee rights. You you're basically. First of all,
03:00every federal employee has to give up their right to strike. So even even if you wanted to stop work,
03:07you can't do that as a federal employee. You've you statutorily federal employees are prohibited
03:14from engaging in strike. So if you thought your job was unsafe, you got to keep working. You can grieve.
03:19Well, unless you you do this, unless you give up all your your rights, then you need to shut up and keep working
03:26for less. And and your employer can just fire for no reason. For any any reason that comes into their head,
03:35you're gone. Considering that entry level federal workers earn an annual starting salary as low as
03:43thirty thousand dollars, the majority of new employees will essentially be forced to relinquish
03:48their constitutional and statutory job protections just to keep more income in their pockets for their families.
03:53Mr. Chairman, the primary response of this provision, excuse me, the primary purpose of this provision
04:00appears to be to advance the implementation of Schedule F, President Trump's government wide plan
04:05to strip federal workers of their civil service protections arbitrarily fire them and replace
04:11them with political loyalists. This shameless attempt to politicize our federal workforce is already
04:16the subject of multiple legal challenges brought by a coalition of federal employee unions and pro-democracy
04:22advocates with the strong support of the Democratic House litigation working group, which I'm a member
04:26of. The statute, excuse me, the statute governing the federal workforce, the bipartisan Civil Service
04:32Reform Act of 1978 enshrined the merit system protection that federal employees should be protected
04:39against arbitrary action, personal favoritism and coercion for partisan political purposes. Schedule F and the at-will
04:46provisions included in this bill fly in the face of that purpose. This provision is also an additional
04:52attack on federal workforce that out of duty already sacrifices critical rights enjoyed by their private sector
04:58counterparts. Every new federal employee swears an oath to serve the American people and carry out
05:04their public service now knowing that they are expressly prohibited by statute from participating in any
05:11strike or work stoppages are asserting the right to strike and even belonging to a union that asserts the
05:17right to strike against the federal government. A violation is a felony and punishable by imprisonment. In closing,
05:24Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to support my amendment to strike this egregious
05:30provision from the bill and preserve the dignity and the independence and respect that we all should have for our federal
05:38employees. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
05:41The gentleman yields back and I recognize myself for a brief statement in opposition of the amendment.
05:47I do appreciate the length of the amendment, just two words and a number. I appreciate that. I sincerely do.
05:54I didn't have to spend a lot of time reading that. But I oppose the Lynch Amendment, number one, which would
06:02significantly reduce deficit reduction in the committee's legislation by over $4.5 billion in
06:08result in the underlying print conflicting with our reconciliation instructions and comprising the
06:14legislative privileges. For that reason, I strongly oppose the Lynch Amendment. Do any other members
06:19wish to speak on the Lynch Amendment? Number one, Ms. Stansbury from New Mexico, you're recognized?
06:28All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would love to just ask-
06:32Reset the clock, please. Go ahead.
06:35Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would love to just ask a few questions about the amendment. So, you know,
06:41again, zooming out a little bit, there's a lot to not like about this portion of the reconciliation
06:48package. As we said, I think it's an all-out attack on the federal workforce and it kind of cuts at the
06:54heart of some of the major reasons why people stay in federal service because it is not only, you know,
07:02them serving and doing their duty for the American people, but also you are making sure that you have
07:09a good retirement, you're taking care of your family. And also, we want to make sure especially,
07:17you know, one of the things that I think is really important for the American people to understand is
07:21that after Richard Nixon resigned, there were major overhauls done to the federal service because
07:28exactly because of the corruption and the ways in which Nixon, bless you, used the federal workforce
07:36and service to carry out his own personal political vendetta. There were major reforms in the 1970s to
07:42the federal workforce rules and laws because we wanted to protect federal workers from being used as
07:48political agents of whoever was in power. And so the idea of trying to convert federal workers to at
07:56will undoes all of the good government reforms that were put into place in the 1970s after Nixon to
08:05protect the federal workforce. Is that correct, Mr. Lynch? That is absolutely correct. Yeah. And so it's
08:10really important to understand that that's why those protections are there. And the whole point of
08:15trying to convert people to at will is, again, to make it easier to make the federal workforce your
08:21political arm. And we don't want that. We're not an autocracy. We are a democracy. And we want to make
08:27sure that our federal employees are protected from the whatever whims of whoever's serving in power. So I do
08:37want to ask though, Mr. Chairman, you said you oppose this amendment because of its impacts to the budget.
08:43Can you explain to me how does not allowing federal workers to be forced into an at-will situation affect the federal budget?
09:00We have budget instructions. We're following through with the budget instructions. We've been very
09:03transparent about what this committee was going to do within our jurisdiction of budget reconciliation.
09:09This is our bill and it's self-explanatory. No, but I don't understand how. So Mr.
09:15Lynch's amendment is to strike section 90,004, which is the provision about at-will work. How does that affect the budget?
09:26The employees who choose to not be at-will have to pay higher contribution rates.
09:43Say that again, please. The employees who choose not to be at-will have to pay higher contribution rates.
09:49And how much money are you saying this will generate for the federal government?
09:58Or savings? The Congressional Budget Office says four and a half billion.
10:04Over what period of time?
10:10A decade. A decade.
10:12Ten years.
10:13Ten years.
10:13Okay. So the idea here is that you...
10:16Let me, let me, let me, let me interrupt you.
10:20We're trying to make savings here and you all, all you do is criticize.
10:25The general lady's time.
10:26You act like there's no, you act like there's no fiscal crisis here.
10:30Mr. Chairman, it's the general lady's time.
10:32It's, I'm just asking the question about, about the monetary offset of at-will employees.
10:40So the idea is here that you're going to generate a few billion dollars over...
10:46A few billion dollars.
10:47Mr. Chairman, is it million or billion?
10:49A few billion dollars.
10:50Is it million or billion?
10:51Ten years.
10:53By taking away federal benefits and making the federal workforce fireable,
11:00undoing all of the good government reforms after Richard Nixon's corruption.
11:05I think that we just need to be, I just want to clarify.
11:08That's what you're saying.
11:12Cool.
11:12Okay.
11:13I think we got it.
11:14Thanks.
11:14I yield back.
11:16Any other members seek recognition on the Lynch Amendment?
11:21Mr. Bell.
11:26Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:30The problem with this bill is that it doesn't offer federal employees a real choice.
11:36It forces them into a lose-lose situation, which weakens the very protections that ensure fairness
11:44and due process.
11:46This package is literally a betrayal of the middle class.
11:51And as I said before, I think our litmus test is, do our proposals support working families or not?
12:00In Missouri alone, these proposals threaten the rights, healthcare, and financial security
12:06of thousands of federal workers.
12:08And let's be clear, in my district, Missouri's first district, over 186,000 people rely on Medicaid.
12:16And under Republican budget plans, their healthcare is at risk.
12:21And so, again, we need to stand with working-class families.
12:26And these proposals are an attack on working-class families.
12:33It's pretty straightforward.
12:35I would yield my time back to Rep. Stanbury if she – or to the ranking member.
12:42I thank the gentleman.
12:44Again, the gentleman is on point with the – first of all, the impact of this on federal employees
12:55and the costs that will – this will incur in terms of performance at the federal level.
13:05Right now, we are in competition with the private sector.
13:12But through loyalty, through patriotism, in the case of the VA, you know, one – about a third of our
13:23our workers at the VA are veterans themselves.
13:27When I – when I go through the – the Brockton VA in my district,
13:33which I do often, I ask them, you know, were you in the military?
13:40More often than not, the answer is yes.
13:42And then they proudly tell me what branch of the service they – they were in and when they served.
13:46And they also expressed the spirit, the esprit de corps, the patriotism, and the obligation that they
13:57feel towards wounded veterans.
14:00All of that is wrapped up in being a federal employee at the VA and some of the other
14:06departments and agencies where federal employees work each and every day.
14:14So what we're doing is we're – so the president has proposed that we're going to go back to I think
14:22it's 1979 in terms of the number of people working at the VA. So he wants to cut 80,000 people from the VA.
14:31Now, because of the high number of veterans we have at the VA, out of that 80,000 people he wants to cut,
14:38that's what his budget resolution anticipates.
14:4327,000 of the people that he's firing at the VA are veterans themselves.
14:48So this – all of this, this bill here today is just in furtherance of that same mission.
14:57And again, I appreciate the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Turner, standing up for his workers at the VA.
15:05I just hope every member here is willing to do that.
15:09I understand the goal of savings and of balancing the budget, but this is not the way you do it.
15:18You don't go after people at the VA.
15:21You know, we had the inspector general for the VA do a whole survey of every single – so there are like 86 major
15:32medical centers, VA medical centers across the country.
15:35And we asked him, give us a report card on how we're doing with our veterans.
15:41He came back and he said two things.
15:42He said, number one, 80% of the hospitals that I've visited need a medical director.
15:49You need to hire a medical director.
15:51He said, 86% of the hospitals that I visited, you need more nurses.
15:57They are the backbone of our healthcare system.
15:59So what did Mr. Trump do first day in office?
16:04Announced 2,400 cuts, 2,400 people laid off at the VA and 80,000 more to come.
16:12So our veterans are waiting longer for appointments.
16:17There are fewer people caring for them.
16:19And this bill, this bill is in furtherance of that same mission.
16:24So we used to agree on stuff on veterans.
16:28We don't anymore.
16:29And I miss the support that we used to have, bipartisanship for our veterans.
16:34And Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
16:35The gentleman yields back.
16:36Any other members seek recognition on Lynch Amendment No. 1?
16:40Ms. Crockett from Texas.
16:42Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
16:44You know, walking in today, I didn't really know how I felt or what I would do,
16:51because as people ask me about how I can get so passionate in this committee about certain topics,
17:00I recently had an opportunity to talk to a group of people in Las Vegas, actually last weekend.
17:08And there was a woman who was almost in tears as she told me about the number of family members
17:13that have been fired from the federal government.
17:15And she said, Rep. Crockett, you give us so much hope,
17:19and I don't understand how people are so callous towards federal workers.
17:26And I explained to her, I can't really understand the callousness either,
17:30but I can tell you that my passion lies in the fact that my mother has given almost 40 years to the federal government.
17:38In March, it would be 40 years that my mom has worked for Department of Defense.
17:42She's worked for Navy. She's worked at Walter Reed. She's worked for the IRS.
17:46She has worked for AFRICOM. She has worked for the post office.
17:51And doing that hard, honest work, as we consistently attack federal workers,
17:59we call them lazy, we call them dumb, we try to pretend as if they are not taking care of the very people that elected us.
18:07But my mom graduated from college at Washington University at the age of 19 after receiving a full ride,
18:17and she decided that what she would do is dedicate her life to this country.
18:21And I wish that we would find an ounce of courage that my mom and so many other federal workers have
18:28and just decide that we are going to dedicate ourselves to service and not just say that we are public servants,
18:36but actually do the work of being public servants.
18:39So let me tell you that this amendment is not going to do anything that y'all claim is going to do.
18:45You claim that this is about money.
18:48When honestly, as far as I can tell, this is only an admission
18:51that what has been done under this administration has been unlawful the entire time.
18:57This is only an avenue to make sure that when and if another rogue tyrant decides that they want to enter the White House,
19:06they can go and get rid of as many people as they want to, and they will not have any recourse in the courts.
19:12The fact that you had to put this in here tells me that y'all absolutely know that these firings of these workers
19:20has been unlawful, and honestly, it has been simply inconvenient for so many of you.
19:26But I can tell you that the only people that are going to hurt are the people that you're servicing.
19:32Even if you can tell me that the CBO tells us that there may be, they can tell me it's $50 billion,
19:38or however many billions of dollars over a number of years, what the CBO is not telling us
19:43is how many people are not going to get their Social Security.
19:47How many people may die because they don't get the services that they need at the VA.
19:52How many people are not going to get their SNAP benefits because there's not going to be anybody there.
19:57As we have had hearing after hearing about people complaining about the post office
20:02and not receiving their mail, which so many of our seniors rely on their checks
20:07to come through the mail to make sure that they can keep a roof over their head.
20:11That's the part of the story that the CBO numbers are not going to tell.
20:15And the last time that I checked, no matter if you're a Democrat or a Republican,
20:19you've got somebody in your district that is relying on these services.
20:24This is about hurting people.
20:26This is about getting rid of people that are too inconvenient for an administration
20:33that doesn't want to keep our food safe at the FDA as they are firing people.
20:38This is about an administration that doesn't want to have any oversight or anybody reporting back
20:44and telling you that our food is unsafe, telling you about the diseases that are coming through,
20:50and basically talking about the overall incompetence.
20:54If you don't have anybody that's at work, then yes, you don't have to worry about
20:58whether or not people who say are trying to go and get an education,
21:03whether or not they're going to actually be able to fill out their FAFSA
21:05and get that funding that they need.
21:08So, at the end of the day, if you can't really explain to me
21:12how this is going to help your constituents,
21:14I don't understand why we are talking about it.
21:17Because again, we weren't elected by Donald Trump or J.D. Vance or Elon Musk.
21:22We were elected by the people of our districts,
21:26and those are the only people that we should be discussing
21:28as it relates to the policy changes that we bring about in this committee.
21:33And I will yield.
21:34Does any other members seek recognition on Lynch Amendment No. 1?
21:38Seeing none.
21:39Seeing none.