During a House Administration Committee hearing, Rep. Bryan Steil (R-WI) asked witnesses about California's ballot counting process, and training procedures.
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00:00Thank you very much. I'll now recognize myself for five minutes for the purpose of asking questions.
00:05Out of the gates, without objection, I'd like to insert the written testimony of Cole Peterson,
00:10the data director for the California Republican Party, without objection.
00:15Ms. Titus, I want to start with you. In particular, kind of dialoguing the seven days the ballots can be received by California after Election Day.
00:24You would think that it would have to be postmarked, right? I mean, the idea is that it's in the USPS system.
00:31What's the check on that in California? Do they review for postmarked? What happens if it's not postmarked?
00:37Could you provide some color to that?
00:39They do, in fact, review for postmarks, and they do reject mail ballots that either don't have a postmark or don't have a date.
00:45California doesn't require that the voter date their ballot when they sign it, but there is a space to do so.
00:52And if they are dated on or before Election Day but lack a postmark, then those would be counted.
00:57So let's just dialogue this all the way through, because when I was at L.A. Central Count, I found this really interesting,
01:03because I watched ballots arrive by mail into the system three days after, as I noted, about 900,000 total ballots
01:10were somewhere in the process of being counted, of being validated, observed, the signature verification, we'll come to that second.
01:18But is your testimony that if USPS doesn't date the envelope and an individual then opens the ballot,
01:28the voter's not required to date the ballot in California under California law,
01:33but if they do date the ballot and they date it by Election Day, it would still count?
01:39Is that accurate?
01:40Yes.
01:40So the real check isn't that it was in, it's a trust system that the individual who dated the ballot dated it on the correct day, right?
01:49Correct.
01:50And so if somebody dated it by Election Day, USPS didn't stamp that with a postal date stamp, it would count?
01:59Yes.
01:59And that USPS doesn't date 100% of their mail?
02:04Correct.
02:04Yes, it sounds like a problem.
02:06And the way to fix this, of course, would just be to require that it's collected and in by Election Day.
02:11I went to high school, I think a lot of us did, and when a paper was due, when did we write the paper?
02:17When it was due.
02:19And so if you just say it has to be in by Election Day, it shifts that.
02:22And Chairman Palmer, you noted 33 states require that ballots be in by Election Day.
02:30I'm assuming that means 17 plus maybe the District of Columbia allow them to come in after Election Day.
02:35Is that accurate?
02:38Yes, Mr. Chair.
02:39And is there a significant correlation with voter participation if it needs to be in by Election Day or after Election Day?
02:47I don't think it's directly, there's a direct correlation.
02:50Right, it's just people are going to do it by the deadline, right?
02:53So if you say you've got to have it postmark, you've got to have it in by Election Day, you get a ton of people that drop it in the box by Election Day.
02:59You say it's got to be received by Election Day.
03:01A lot of people drop it in sufficiently in advance or drop it in in person so that at least the physical ballots are all in by a specific deadline, right?
03:11I agree, sir.
03:13And so if I'll come back to you, Ms. Titus.
03:15So California runs a system also where every registered voter receives a ballot, regardless of whether or not they request it.
03:24It's automatically sent.
03:25Is that accurate?
03:25Yes.
03:26And so when that goes out, obviously not 100% of the people that receive a ballot participate in the election, but a large percentage, I think it was about 70 or so percent in the state of California.
03:36But for the purpose of calling election, not only do you need to know the numerator, how many ballots come in, and they can come in up to seven days after the election,
03:46but you also need to know the denominator, which is how many total people are voting when you're, I apologize, the denominator in the context of what percent you would need to be able to win an election.
03:56So for seven days, everybody in California is reasonably blind as the total number of ballots cast in an election.
04:03Is that accurate?
04:04Yes.
04:04And that makes it really hard to call a race to know who won an election, right?
04:09Yes.
04:09And so that challenge, I think, is a real and substantive challenge.
04:14I want to end with the signature comparison.
04:19When I walked through LA Central Count, it was burned into my mind watching this woman do the signature verification.
04:26What standard or what training are the workers given who are engaged in the signature verification in California?
04:34There is no standardized training.
04:36So there's no training.
04:37There's no standardized training.
04:38Okay.
04:39Some counties have more rigorous training.
04:41Some counties have very little.
04:43What I've also seen is the comparison process is often occurring on a computer screen,
04:48and they may be comparing four different voter ballots at the same time.
04:53So they will have the scans of the outside of it.
04:55And the standard with which, so the training varies.
04:58Training varies.
04:59The woman that I met said she had almost no training.
05:02And there's about 17 criteria that are supposed to apply when making a decision.
05:05And the standard that they have to meet is beyond a reasonable doubt?
05:08Correct.
05:08It's a pretty high standard.
05:10Yes.
05:10Especially in a situation where these live ballots are mailed to every registered voter.
05:14I think we've identified some of the challenges we see in California.
05:17Appreciate our witnesses here, cognizant of the time.
05:20I'll now recognize the ranking member for five minutes for questions.