In 2010, in one of Sweden’s most shocking murders, Isakin Jonsson aka Drabbad, cut off parts of Helle Christensen’s body and ate her remains.His daughter, Jamie-Lee Arrow, 23, opens up about how her convicted murderer father tried to raise her to be as depraved as he was. Arrow tells PEOPLE why she had to sever all ties with her father after their last meeting.
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00:00:00I am feeling nervous, this is a hard thing to talk about.
00:00:31And you never really get used to talking about this.
00:00:38The man who turned himself in for murdering his girlfriend in an apartment in Skara has now been detained by police.
00:00:48My name is Jamie Lee. I am the daughter of a famous killer, a Swedish killer.
00:00:56My dad committed a murder, a very brutal murder on his girlfriend, my step-mom.
00:01:08The 32-year-old has shared how he cut off his partner's head and ached from her body after killing her.
00:01:19It was like something broke. I just said no. I just kept screaming and screaming no.
00:01:30It's really hard for me to grip the fact that my dad actually ate from a human being.
00:01:47I remember feeling so sick to my stomach. It was just so disgusting and I couldn't believe my dad had done that.
00:01:58It's like the next house, this one.
00:02:13I can't believe I'm doing this.
00:02:17I am extremely nervous to do this because I have so many questions.
00:02:40I want to know why he has done the things he has done.
00:02:47I want to know if he is sorry.
00:02:50I want to know if he ever truly loved me or if I was just a part of his game.
00:02:58How do you feel when you see her?
00:03:21You knew how much I loved her, right? When she was alive.
00:03:28It's not murder. I am not a murderer.
00:03:32You cut off her head.
00:03:34I did, of course. Yeah.
00:03:37The whole nature of this crime is not just for Jamie, it's whether people choose to believe, right?
00:03:42Right?
00:03:43If I can say to all the viewers something, they can think about it.
00:03:47The only person that knows the truth is me.
00:03:50So if they will, if you choose to believe in something else, then you take a deep good look at yourself in the mirror
00:03:59and say to yourself, I'm an idiot.
00:04:01Are you going to believe in something else?
00:04:03Actually, you remember nóaries out there?
00:04:20Here you will.
00:04:23In My Little Pit
00:04:26To See What I Camp
00:04:29Isak Indrabad is one of Sweden's most notorious murderers.
00:04:43In 2011, he was sentenced to a psychiatric hospital
00:04:46for cutting off part of his girlfriend's body and eating it.
00:04:50After this, he became known in the media as the Skara cannibal.
00:04:54He had committed a murder that was talked about all over Sweden,
00:05:02you know, all over the world.
00:05:06And people were so scared of him.
00:05:11People talked about him like he was the biggest monster ever.
00:05:17Yeah, I was just the Skara cannibal's daughter.
00:05:24Yeah, so this is when I was newborn.
00:05:41My dad is holding me.
00:05:43I think he was a bit about 20 here.
00:05:46Very young.
00:05:48Looks a bit grumpy.
00:05:53Yeah, it's nice seeing him holding me as a kid, as a baby.
00:06:01I loved my dad when I was a little girl.
00:06:05He was the best dad.
00:06:06He would take me out.
00:06:10He would watch movies with me.
00:06:12He would always make me laugh.
00:06:14He always knew how to make me happy when I was sad.
00:06:19I always felt like my dad loved me more than anything else in the world.
00:06:24And he always said that he doesn't care about anyone or anything other than me.
00:06:30I really did love him and I still do love him.
00:06:35I love the good side of him.
00:06:37I love the good side of him.
00:06:38I love you, my father.
00:06:39Episode 8
00:06:58Oh.
00:07:00I actually remember when this photo was taken.
00:07:03was taken. You can see on my face that I don't look quite happy. My parents had
00:07:11joint custody of me when I was a kid so I didn't see him a lot but my mom took me
00:07:16to visit him sometimes and usually he was nice and we had fun but then there
00:07:23were times when he would switch and become different. I think it was about
00:07:30five in this photo. At this age I knew there were times to be scared of my dad.
00:07:37One time when I got to his place my dad asked me if I was hungry. He said yes so he went to the
00:08:05microwave and he heated up our pizza and I ate the topping first like the cheese
00:08:14and the ham and then he looked at me and said so you're not hungry why did you
00:08:20tell me you were hungry and I went like yeah I'm hungry I just eat the topping
00:08:24first. He just snapped. His eyes just turned black like he lost all his
00:08:33emotions. It was like he had gone. My dad wasn't there anymore it was someone else.
00:08:39He took my plate and he just smashed the plate into the sink. I just froze and I
00:08:52just remember my heart pounding out of my chest. I was just really scared and just
00:08:58went around all over the place like screaming and shouting and I just wanted
00:09:04him to stop and I would just say I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry and nothing
00:09:09would help nothing would calm him down.
00:09:14That was the first occasion where I felt like truly scared of him.
00:09:22When I was little my dad would show me like movies that a kid shouldn't watch or see. He really loved horror movies and movies with a lot of blood and
00:09:49knives killer movies you know and he was so like invested in the movie like he was learning something and he watches some sick movies like really really really sick movies.
00:10:08I just remember closing my eyes waiting for it to be over I can't really understand why he would want to scare me you know it's just unimaginable to me I would never do that I would never want to be the one to make my children feel scared.
00:10:30That thought makes me want to cry now looking back I asked myself why he would let me watch those kind of movies and sometimes I do think that maybe he did have a purpose in showing me I think he wanted to introduce me to the darkness at a very early age.
00:10:58My dad's apartment was kind of odd he would have like pictures and paintings of the devil up on the walls.
00:11:22He had this knife collection and an axe.
00:11:28When you walked into the apartment you got a very dark feeling.
00:11:34When I was a kid he made me believe that demons and spirits watched me.
00:11:46He even made me see them myself sometimes.
00:11:52Like when we were in a dark room at night he could go like look at the wall Jamie what do you see.
00:12:01And I would go like nothing.
00:12:05Look harder try harder look just look at the wall keep looking until you see something.
00:12:13And eventually I started like seeing stuff moving on the walls like faces coming out of the wall.
00:12:25In the darkness your mind can play games and they were all looking at me.
00:12:30And I said like I can see it now dad can you please make it stop I don't want to see this anymore can you make it stop.
00:12:40And he said like you you're gonna have to get used to it because they are always gonna be there.
00:12:45I remember once when we were laying in the bed and I had my back turned towards him and he was laying behind me.
00:12:58We were just about to fall asleep and then he said what would you do if you heard me calling your name from the kitchen right now.
00:13:09You would realize that someone else was laying behind you.
00:13:13Like a demon or something.
00:13:19And I was like don't say that dad you're scaring me.
00:13:23And he would just laugh.
00:13:28And he would say stuff like that all the time.
00:13:32He would say that me and him were angels sent from help to earth.
00:13:39And he told me that the spirits and the demons would help me.
00:13:45Soon you will also see what I can see.
00:13:49And you can't stop it because you are my daughter.
00:13:52And you will be even more powerful than I am.
00:13:55He would say this like for hours and hours every time I came to visit him.
00:14:03He wanted me to be a part of his world, his darkness to like shape me into exactly what he was.
00:14:11He wanted to make me evil.
00:14:15When my dad started dating Helle, I was about I think six or seven.
00:14:32I remember the first time I met her like it was yesterday.
00:14:37She had like this bright red hair and she had makeup on.
00:14:42She was so beautiful.
00:14:44She was like the most beautiful person I had ever seen in my life.
00:14:48And I just felt like I want to look like her when I grow up.
00:14:54She went right up to me and like hello, what's your name?
00:14:59Oh you're so beautiful.
00:15:00She made me feel special.
00:15:03So I liked her immediately.
00:15:06And I felt like I had gotten like a second mom.
00:15:12Yeah, I was very happy.
00:15:27In the beginning, it was so much fun.
00:15:30And it was like a paradise.
00:15:32I loved it so much.
00:15:33It was my perfect world.
00:15:36But then it switched and it got worse than ever.
00:15:45Every time I went there, every weekend, they would have fights like they were going to kill each other.
00:15:57They would throw plates at each other.
00:16:00And they would say disturbing things.
00:16:04I don't even want to say them out of my mouth because it was so disgusting things, sexual things.
00:16:10It would be like things no kid should hear.
00:16:15If I went up and tried to stop them, they would push me away like I meant nothing.
00:16:22I was sitting there like screaming, stop, stop, from the top of my lungs.
00:16:27They wouldn't care. They wouldn't see me.
00:16:31There was one time they had a really bad fight and he screamed at her, I will kill you.
00:16:40And my heart just dropped.
00:16:46Because I could almost feel my dad's anger.
00:16:55I thought he would kill her right then and there.
00:16:59I was just sitting there thinking any time now he would get a knife and he would kill her.
00:17:11I knew my dad was capable of killing her.
00:17:14It was just a question of time.
00:17:17So the last time I ever saw Helle, it was probably the worst weekend of my entire childhood.
00:17:38I went to my dad's and Helle was there.
00:17:48I noticed that Helle was acting weird.
00:17:52She was like not talking to me and she didn't want anything to do with me.
00:17:59And she started cooking something and she was like slamming the doors.
00:18:08And she was cooking very aggressively, like she was very stressed.
00:18:17And my dad seemed very tense and like he was angry.
00:18:32I didn't know why.
00:18:33I didn't know why she was acting that way.
00:18:35And I just had a feeling that that day wouldn't end up good.
00:18:50And she served it to us and she went like enjoy your meal.
00:18:57This is the last thing I will ever cook for you because Isakine is going to kill me.
00:19:03And yeah, then I just froze.
00:19:11And I said no, please don't say that.
00:19:14Like my heart just dropped and I knew what was coming.
00:19:18This is my dad and Helle.
00:19:35I don't think that I wanted to admit to myself that Helle was maybe going to die.
00:19:48I just remember feeling so scared.
00:19:51I just had a feeling something big would happen.
00:19:55I remember I was standing in the background, like in front of them.
00:20:01They were taking this photo on a computer and I stood behind the computer looking at them.
00:20:08And I remember feeling so happy because they were so silly and joking around so much.
00:20:16And I loved when they were doing that.
00:20:18And I was just hoping it would last for a bit more.
00:20:23And that they wouldn't start fighting again.
00:20:27It doesn't feel like it's real.
00:20:30It makes me feel like everything could have turned out differently.
00:20:39I went in the bedroom.
00:21:00My mum was sitting on there.
00:21:07side of the bed crying.
00:21:15Her eyes were like swollen and red.
00:21:19I asked my mum, why have you been crying?
00:21:23And she said, come and sit down, Jamie.
00:21:26I need to tell you something.
00:21:29And I didn't want to know what had happened.
00:21:38So I just said, don't tell me.
00:21:39Please don't tell me.
00:21:40Because I think deep down I knew.
00:21:44And my mum just said,
00:21:50Helle is dead.
00:21:52Helle is dead.
00:21:54Jamie, Helle is dead.
00:21:56Jamie Helle,ине helle is dead.
00:22:04And I just…
00:22:08When she said that
00:22:09it was like something…
00:22:12broke.
00:22:15I just said, no, she's not, I just kept screaming and screaming, no, no, it's not true, she's not dead.
00:22:28And she just kept holding me close to her, and after a long while, I just asked her, was it bad?
00:22:41And she went, yes.
00:22:47And it felt like my entire world just broke apart.
00:23:01So I asked my mum, like, how did he kill her, what happened?
00:23:08And she said, she couldn't tell me.
00:23:17I just knew that it had happened in a very brutal way.
00:23:23I accidentally saw my dad on the newspaper, on the headlines, and it said,
00:23:43Isakim Skara Cannibalem, which means the Skara Cannibal.
00:23:51I remember feeling so sick in my stomach.
00:23:58It was just so disgusting, and I couldn't believe my dad had done that.
00:24:03It's really hard for me to grip the fact that my dad actually ate from a human being.
00:24:13The man who turned himself in for murdering his girlfriend in an apartment in Skara has now been detained by police.
00:24:28The plea hearing will be held at the district court this afternoon.
00:24:31The man killed his partner in their home, and when he called the police and reported himself, he also said that he had eaten the body.
00:24:40It felt like everyone around me, everyone who knew me, saw me differently after that.
00:24:57And no one really asked me how I felt, how I was, if it had affected me.
00:25:06No one really seemed to care.
00:25:08They didn't want to be friends with me anymore.
00:25:13I always felt so alone.
00:25:15I felt like the most lonely girl in the world, because no one really saw me for me anymore.
00:25:23I was just the Skara cannibals' daughter.
00:25:38The 38-year-old man from Skara, who was sentenced for murdering and dismembering his partner, and then eating from her body,
00:25:46the so-called Skara cannibal, will continue to receive forensic psychiatric care.
00:25:51The chamber has decided so.
00:25:53I was so nervous.
00:26:09I was so nervous, because I didn't know what to expect.
00:26:13I hadn't seen him for two years, and all of a sudden, I saw my dad walk out the door.
00:26:19Like, he didn't look dangerous in any way.
00:26:24And I remember just standing up, and he came to me, and he just smiled.
00:26:35He had the biggest smile on his face.
00:26:39And he said, hello, my little angel, like he always called me.
00:26:46And he hugged me so tight, so, so tight.
00:26:49And I started crying.
00:26:50I felt like I never wanted to let him go.
00:26:54It was very confusing that he was just the same, because he didn't make sense to me.
00:27:02He had committed a murder that was talked about all over Sweden, you know, and people were so scared of him.
00:27:13People talked about him like he was the biggest monster ever.
00:27:17And then he wasn't, like, he was just the same.
00:27:20To me, he was just my dad.
00:27:23I decided to accept that he had done what he had done, because that would mean that I got my dad back.
00:27:36I could never get Helle back, but if I only forgave him, I would get my dad back.
00:27:43Getting my dad back into my life again after the murder was really the beginning of a complete nightmare.
00:27:53When I was about 13 or 14, I started doing drugs and drinking a lot.
00:28:19I just had so much hate for myself.
00:28:23Everyone just saw me as this killer's daughter.
00:28:27I was trash.
00:28:28I was nothing.
00:28:30Everyone just thought I would end up being a junkie on the streets.
00:28:35I felt like I had nowhere to turn, no one to talk to.
00:28:39Yeah, it was awful.
00:28:41It was an awful time, a horrible time.
00:28:44And my dad was the only one who accepted it.
00:28:49Because my mum didn't.
00:28:51She hated that I was doing drugs.
00:28:54And he never treated me differently.
00:28:57So I could always turn to him with whatever that was going on in my life.
00:29:04And I could come visit him in the hospital like high on drugs.
00:29:08He wouldn't care.
00:29:09I do believe that he was happy that everyone was, like, neglecting me at that point.
00:29:17And I didn't feel like I could talk to my mum because she was already so sad.
00:29:23And I didn't want to make it worse for her.
00:29:27And he saw his chance to be the only one that I had.
00:29:33It would be me and him against the world.
00:29:36He is a master manipulator.
00:29:56He made me believe and feel like we were, like, supernatural.
00:30:03Like we weren't even human.
00:30:05You're bullying me.
00:30:07And he wanted to teach me how to control other people.
00:30:13To control how other people act around me.
00:30:18And then my dad, he gave me a voodoo doll.
00:30:22Which he had made, and a needle.
00:30:27And he said to me,
00:30:32If anyone ever hurts you, and you want to get back on them.
00:30:37When I pushed the needle inside the doll, the person would get pain where I put the needle.
00:30:44It's really, really dark.
00:30:47I wanted to become like him, because he made me feel like having no empathy.
00:30:54And to control people, and not to care about people, was power.
00:31:03And I wanted to be powerful.
00:31:17So I trained myself not to care about people.
00:31:21Not to feel guilty, not to feel empathy.
00:31:26I remember even saying, this is going to sound really sick.
00:31:31But I remember even saying to my best friend that, before I die, I want to try to kill someone.
00:31:37I want to know what it's like to kill someone.
00:31:40He's so sick.
00:31:42I can't believe I've ever said that.
00:31:44But I was in a very dark place.
00:31:47And I actually didn't want to live anymore.
00:31:50I just felt so bad.
00:31:52And I just wanted to end my life.
00:31:55So I went to my dad at the hospital.
00:32:10And I told my dad about how I felt.
00:32:13And I said, Dad, I feel so awful.
00:32:17I will never be happy.
00:32:19I just want to die, Dad.
00:32:21Can you help me?
00:32:22And he said, I've been waiting to do this with you until you are ready.
00:32:28But I can tell now that you are ready.
00:32:32He said to me, there's a ritual that I usually do that has helped me.
00:32:38And now it can help you.
00:32:41And after you do this, your life will never be the same.
00:32:47You will be happy.
00:32:49You will get money.
00:32:52You will get everything.
00:32:54And to me, that sounded like perfect.
00:32:59I was ready to do anything.
00:33:01And he said to me, take my hands, Jamie.
00:33:04So I took his hands.
00:33:06And he told me to close my eyes.
00:33:10And he did the same.
00:33:11And he said, say after me, Jamie.
00:33:16And then he said, I don't want to repeat the things he said.
00:33:23But the ritual turned out to be a ritual that would sell my soul to the devil.
00:33:32It was to Lucifer.
00:33:35And I don't know what I believe, but I don't think that it's good to say those words that we said that day.
00:33:44I don't want to say it again.
00:33:45And after we had said those words, it felt in my body like we had left the room.
00:34:01Like we weren't there anymore.
00:34:04We were, like, floating around in this darkness together.
00:34:16And he said to me, how do you feel now, Jamie?
00:34:22I felt like it worked.
00:34:29I felt like I had no soul.
00:34:32And I remember feeling panic.
00:34:34I felt like my life was ruined for real now.
00:34:38Everything was ruined.
00:34:40And I felt I couldn't even kill myself.
00:34:43Because I knew what would happen if I did and where I would go.
00:34:49I would go to hell.
00:34:52I still went back to visit my dad after the ritual.
00:34:58Because he was the only one that was accepting me, that loved me.
00:35:07That's what I thought.
00:35:09He played with my mind.
00:35:12He changed my whole view of the world and everything and everyone.
00:35:21My mum, everyone I loved.
00:35:23He just changed how I saw everything.
00:35:27It was me and him against the world.
00:35:30It definitely was.
00:35:31Now I'm going to meet my daughter and hang out with her alone for the first time in six years.
00:35:46No guards, no guards, no relative present, just me and my daughter.
00:35:52In a matter of six years.
00:35:53In a matter of six years.
00:35:54This is the best day.
00:35:55There she is.
00:35:56Hey, come on.
00:35:57I didn't film you.
00:35:58I didn't film you.
00:35:59I didn't film you.
00:36:00I didn't film you.
00:36:01Hey.
00:36:02Hey, come on.
00:36:03Hey.
00:36:04Hey.
00:36:06Hey, come on.
00:36:07Hey.
00:36:08Hey.
00:36:09You're not filming, man.
00:36:10Hey.
00:36:11Hey.
00:36:15Hey.
00:36:16Hey.
00:36:18Hey.
00:36:22Oh, how are you?
00:36:24Yeah, I'm driving, damn it.
00:36:31That's so silly.
00:36:37What a weird thing.
00:36:47My dad went to me like,
00:36:50Jamie do you want to know how the murder actually happened because I have been wanting to tell you
00:36:59but I wanted to wait until you were really ready he looked me in the eyes like very intense and
00:37:11with passion he explained to me that Helen had asked him since the first day they met to kill her
00:37:22every day she had tried to kill herself many times but she wanted him to do it and she had tried to
00:37:33do everything in her power to get him to the point where he would kill her he said they couldn't get
00:37:42rid of her and I had lost control the only way out was to kill her I did it for you Jamie I did
00:37:49all of it for you and he said I did it in such a brutal way so that I wouldn't go to prison so
00:37:57that I would go to this hospital instead he told me that he took a knife from the kitchen and he took
00:38:18an axe from the hallway and he went in to the bedroom where hello were resting and she didn't
00:38:31say anything he said that she just looked at him like nodded like go ahead do it and then it took the
00:38:43knife and he slipped her throat and then it chopped her head off with the axe and then he brought her
00:38:57head to the kitchen and he put the head by the sink he cut off a piece of her thigh and he fried that piece
00:39:11of her thigh in the pan and he ate the piece of thigh and then he had just made it look like he had slept with her
00:39:29corpse so that it would be even more sick
00:39:41it was really scary for me sitting there listening to this it was like he was reliving it like he was
00:39:53enjoying talking about it like it was something that he was proud of like he was holding a painting that
00:40:03he had done I just felt so disgusted and I just felt like I wanted to leave the room the way I saw my dad
00:40:14from that day on changed he showed me who he really was that's the first time I really saw my dad as a killer
00:40:25my dad said to me that he never wanted to kill Helle that she just made him do it but he said to my mum
00:40:41before when they were together that he always wondered what human flesh tastes like
00:40:48so I think that part of him really wanted to do it I think he saw it as an opportunity to live out his
00:41:00fantasies and he created his own little horror movie in that apartment just like the ones he used to watch
00:41:10my dad had screamed at me through the phone like a week before that and treated me like he had no
00:41:34respect for me so I was a bit upset with him and questioned him about it and said I wanted him to
00:41:41apologize and I saw how his eyes turned black for the first time since I was a kid and I went like
00:41:52wow is he still there is that dad still there you know that dark side of him and he just got angry and
00:42:02angrier and he walked towards me very threatening like he wanted me to feel small and hopeless like I meant
00:42:11nothing to him and he screamed in my face shut your mouth or you'll see what happens
00:42:22he was threatening to kill me or do something to me hurt me in some way that was really a turning
00:42:36point for me that's the last time I saw my dad I just wanted to get rid of all of the darkness I just
00:42:43wanted to get back into the light and I walked away in the beginning it was like a relief not talking to
00:43:02him anymore because he had dragged me so deep down into darkness when he was no longer in my life it was
00:43:13like I could breathe again I could find my way back to the light but it has been hard for me especially now the
00:43:26the last year I start to miss him I miss the good parts of him I miss the good times
00:43:34it's just right it's like the next house this one okay I'm just gonna pull around this
00:44:04corner here God I can't believe I'm doing this I want to see him again I want to know if he's changed and I want to have answers because I have so many questions
00:44:21can I just wait for a minute and prepare myself mentally of course
00:44:33I actually can't believe I'm doing this it feels very unreal and it feels like I'm dreaming
00:44:46this is this I I can't believe this right good luck thank you
00:45:16I'm
00:45:46I don't know.
00:46:16Do you know how much you love someone?
00:46:34Do you know how much you love someone when you still want to see the person who's like
00:46:45scaring you to death?
00:46:50I think it's extremely difficult to have me in your life.
00:46:57Yeah.
00:46:58You can only see heaven from hell and that's what I do.
00:47:03I look at you from hell and I'm sorry.
00:47:05It didn't matter what happened ever at your place with you.
00:47:18It didn't matter how badly you scared me.
00:47:24I always wanted to come back to you.
00:47:28I know.
00:47:31You're extremely brave.
00:47:34No, I just loved you.
00:47:35I don't think I ever really explained to you how I felt as a child.
00:47:50No, I haven't.
00:47:51It feels like I always listened to you, how you experience everything and I don't think
00:47:57that I dared to like talk to you about how I really felt during my childhood.
00:48:07So I feel like now is my chance to finally like speak up and then I can finally move on and
00:48:20just leave that behind me.
00:48:22It feels like the darkness has always been present in my life since I was a kid.
00:48:32I always had like different like paintings or pictures of the devil and you talked a lot
00:48:43about demons and spirits and ghosts and do you understand that?
00:48:51That was wrong, yes.
00:48:52That was wrong and that damaged me.
00:48:54Yes.
00:48:55I always felt like I was carrying a burden, like I was carrying darkness with me and I didn't feel like a normal kid.
00:49:05I didn't feel innocent.
00:49:08Do you know what I mean?
00:49:09I understand exactly what you mean.
00:49:10A kid is always innocent.
00:49:12Yes.
00:49:13And I took that.
00:49:21One time I said, oh, that's wrong.
00:49:23She and me, she was going to go to, you were going to go to sleep, lie next to me.
00:49:28And I said to her, Sara, would you be scared now if you heard me call your name from the kitchen?
00:49:34That I wasn't the one laying next to you.
00:49:37Oh, they thought I was really funny.
00:49:39Yeah.
00:49:40Yeah.
00:49:41Things like that.
00:49:42Things like that kids shouldn't even think about.
00:49:43No.
00:49:44And that made me feel like every time I went to sleep I thought of that occasion and, yeah, you made me feel scared like in my everyday life.
00:50:00Because I always thought of the things you used to say to me.
00:50:04I thought then, I'm preparing you for life.
00:50:09But I prepared you for my life.
00:50:13I remember the first time I ever felt scared of you.
00:50:27I was so excited to see you.
00:50:29And I could tell you were, like, really stressed.
00:50:33You weren't, like, happy and relaxed.
00:50:35Something was wrong.
00:50:38But then you asked me if I was hungry.
00:50:42And you asked me, like, in a very, like, angry way.
00:50:46And I wasn't really hungry, but I didn't really want to say no to you.
00:50:50So I said I was hungry.
00:50:53So you went and you heated up our pizza in the microwave.
00:50:59And I sat down by the table and I started to eat my pizza, the topping first.
00:51:09And then you looked at me and the way I was eating the pizza and you went, like, why the didn't you tell me you weren't hungry?
00:51:20And then you, like, took the plate away from me and you smashed it in the sink.
00:51:25I had no remember.
00:51:28I just froze to ice.
00:51:31And I didn't expect that at all.
00:51:34And then you just kept, like, running around in the apartment, slamming doors.
00:51:40And I went, like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
00:51:42Please, I'm sorry.
00:51:44And then you would, like, calm down.
00:51:48But I was still crying and shaking.
00:51:55I always thought that because you come to me, even if I am like I am, that you always felt unscared of me.
00:52:06But I understand now that it wasn't true.
00:52:10That wasn't true.
00:52:11I have done an awful dangerous thing, no question about it, but I am not dangerous.
00:52:26Do you think you were dangerous at one time?
00:52:28Yes, I was very dangerous.
00:52:30But no more?
00:52:31No more.
00:52:32It doesn't feel like it's me.
00:52:47But I remember this time.
00:52:51That was when you started to know your shortcomings as a father.
00:52:57Before, you have this romanticized feeling, as soon as I get a baby, I'm going to be the best dad.
00:53:06But it's a mirror to see what you are.
00:53:12And when I saw it first time, that is the best ever.
00:53:16The most powerful.
00:53:18It was like something happened in me.
00:53:23But I remember this time.
00:53:27I had a beautiful woman who really loved me.
00:53:31No question of her mother.
00:53:34And I had a child.
00:53:36But that was not enough for me.
00:53:38And I have had that option, but I chose something else.
00:53:43When I stepped out from the car and were about to go up and knock on your door, I was so nervous.
00:54:01I felt like I was going to faint.
00:54:04When I last saw you, you really scared me.
00:54:08And I haven't heard from you since then.
00:54:13So many thoughts were running through my mind.
00:54:16And during these years, I've been thinking, like, maybe you got even deeper down in the darkness.
00:54:26Maybe you had gotten more dangerous.
00:54:30I was just scared who would open the door.
00:54:38Do you remember what happened the last time we saw each other?
00:54:42Yeah.
00:54:43Of course.
00:54:44I was so scared.
00:54:46I didn't know what you were capable of.
00:54:49I felt scared because I didn't know what to do.
00:54:57And have you ever told them what you did do?
00:55:01No.
00:55:02So I felt scared because I didn't know if you had chose to go back to the hospital or if you went back up to the apartment.
00:55:12I felt scared like you were going to hurt me if you had gone back up to the apartment.
00:55:18So when I opened the door, I just ran to the kitchen and I grabbed a knife.
00:55:26And I started to search every room in the apartment.
00:55:33And then when I realized you weren't there and that you actually had left, I just fell down to the ground and started crying.
00:55:46I thought that you always said that I loved you or that I never could harm you, even if I harmed others.
00:55:57You should have realized, well, she must be scared of me.
00:56:00She can't just think that I would hurt other people and not her.
00:56:05Obviously, I felt like you were capable of hurting me.
00:56:09But I can't comprehend that you feel that.
00:56:13I understand what you say.
00:56:14I'm sorry about it, but it doesn't go in my brain.
00:56:18It doesn't.
00:56:20I can't comprehend that you can feel that I can hurt because I can.
00:56:24You wouldn't hurt me physically.
00:56:26It's an impossibility.
00:56:28But the last time we saw each other and you looked at me that way and you talked to me that way just made me feel like I wasn't different than heller.
00:56:43When you looked at me the way you did, I saw the same eyes as I saw when I was a kid again, like your eyes like…
00:56:49Yeah, I started to feel a little bit like that.
00:56:52So, that's why I was scared of you for the first time since I was a kid.
00:56:58Because I felt like you could snap at me the way you snapped at her.
00:57:04I actually, on purpose, tried to see where your limits were.
00:57:12I know.
00:57:13That was what made me mad.
00:57:15I wanted to see how far you could go because I had started to see a different side of you again.
00:57:21And I wanted to see how far I could go before you snapped.
00:57:25The thing is, I didn't, I felt a long time that you say, not only that moment, that you testing me.
00:57:36I snapped because you're testing me.
00:57:38Yeah, but, um, so by doing that you scared me a little more.
00:57:45I'm sorry over how I acted.
00:57:48It feels more like a dream, more like a fog.
00:57:51But he's dead.
00:57:52He doesn't exist.
00:57:53That was a weak person.
00:57:55I had killed that person of Isaac.
00:57:57He's dead.
00:57:58It doesn't exist.
00:57:59I killed him.
00:58:01Like you said, you saw the same person, but the same person was something that appeared because you summoned it.
00:58:14Do you understand?
00:58:15If you knocks on the dev story long enough, he will open.
00:58:18Do you feel like you were manipulating me when I was younger?
00:58:31Like even when I was a kid and especially when I was a teenager.
00:58:36You made me something I wasn't from the beginning.
00:58:41You gave me a doll.
00:58:44Had you made it yourself?
00:58:46Yeah.
00:58:49So I could use it to hurt the kids that were like bullying me or the people that were hurting me.
00:58:55I want to give you some strength to handle the situation.
00:59:03My entire world was just twisted.
00:59:07Everything, everything was so twisted.
00:59:09And the things you had taught me about the world and everyone and people.
00:59:14I trained you.
00:59:15You, yeah.
00:59:16Yeah.
00:59:17I don't say it's right.
00:59:18But I thought this can only be benefit for you.
00:59:24So before I started to believe like you might not love me for real, like I was only a part of your game.
00:59:32And you were, I don't know, I just thought you might not love me and never have loved me.
00:59:42I'm sorry to hear that.
00:59:44It broke my heart.
00:59:45It broke my heart because it's the opposite.
00:59:49I do.
00:59:50Yeah.
00:59:51I understand that maybe never will you feel that because of my shortcomings as a father.
01:00:05And then there's nothing now I can do about that.
01:00:07Yeah.
01:00:08I don't know.
01:00:09It is a question.
01:00:10Okay.
01:00:11Can I, can I do something that makes you feel more that I love you and I, is not dangerous.
01:00:20So tell me and I will do it.
01:00:21Yeah.
01:00:22I don't know what that would be.
01:00:27Jamie, do you want to talk about selling your soul?
01:00:44Because I think that's important.
01:00:45That was sort of a turning point for you.
01:00:47Not selling, giving.
01:00:49So there's big difference.
01:00:52I was, I was at my lowest point ever.
01:00:55I was at, I was at a point where I wanted to kill myself.
01:01:00Because I didn't want to live in the world you had created for me.
01:01:07And that made me depressed.
01:01:09I was in a depression and I was going to kill myself, but I wanted to try everything before I did.
01:01:16So.
01:01:17Did it help?
01:01:19What?
01:01:20Did it, did it make your life worse after that or better?
01:01:24I'm not, let me, so I'm going to explain how I experienced it.
01:01:30So then I came to you and I explained to you how I felt and how, how depressed I was.
01:01:38And I don't think I said to you I wanted to kill myself, but I did.
01:01:42And then you explained to me about a ritual that you had done yourself.
01:01:50And if I did it, I would become successful.
01:01:55I would become powerful and happy.
01:01:59My, my life would like change for, for good.
01:02:03Well, what's wrong?
01:02:04I'm not done yet. Wait.
01:02:06I haven't everything be, be, gone better in life?
01:02:11When you put that way, yeah.
01:02:12Yeah.
01:02:13So.
01:02:14I, I can't feel sorry about that.
01:02:18I gave my daughter a better life.
01:02:22So.
01:02:23I'm sorry.
01:02:24I'm sorry.
01:02:25I'm not sorry.
01:02:26I'm proud of that moment.
01:02:31It is, like I said, that is a few times I am 100% certain I helped you.
01:02:38It was a solution.
01:02:41You wanna help her?
01:02:56How do you feel when you see her?
01:03:06Nothing.
01:03:08No, nothing.
01:03:10It's like you're showing me a picture of, uh...
01:03:16Sorry.
01:03:18Whatever.
01:03:20I'm sorry.
01:03:24You knew how much I loved her, right?
01:03:27When she was alive.
01:03:28No, I didn't.
01:03:30You didn't?
01:03:32No, I didn't.
01:03:34You said that, but I thought, listen, you said it to kind of provoke me.
01:03:40No.
01:03:42I really, really loved her.
01:03:49When I found out that Helle was dead,
01:03:55I felt like, um...
01:03:59It was my fault.
01:04:02Because when I used to spend time with you, you and Helle,
01:04:08you threatened her a few times that you would kill her.
01:04:12I remember the last time I saw her, she said to me, as she was serving me dinner,
01:04:18enjoy your food, because this is the last time you'll ever eat my food.
01:04:24Because Isakim is going to kill me.
01:04:29So when my mom said that you had killed Helle, I felt like it was my fault.
01:04:36I could have stopped it.
01:04:38If I just had...
01:04:40You couldn't.
01:04:42It's certainly not your fault.
01:04:44Maybe she had a pussy in the future.
01:04:48But what I have told her was that it's over between me and her.
01:04:53When you go there, me and her is going to go separate ways regardless.
01:04:57It was definitely not the plan for me.
01:05:03When you go, I'm going to kill her.
01:05:07She had asked me over and over and over and over and over and over and over,
01:05:11that she wanted me to kill her.
01:05:15I should have gone straight away when I heard that.
01:05:19Not taking her in your life.
01:05:22That is my fault.
01:05:24But two sick individuals does not make a good cake.
01:05:29It is a disaster.
01:05:31But she kept asking me all the time after that.
01:05:34She was demanding you to kill her.
01:05:36Yes.
01:05:37I was in a point that I have lost my mind too, but in a different way.
01:05:42And she said,
01:05:44Then you can help me die for a million times.
01:05:48Now she has in a wrong or right time.
01:05:52I don't know, but I had lost control.
01:06:12In my demented mind, that was a logical decision to do that, to get what I want.
01:06:22And I saw a way out for me to get help.
01:06:26I saw no way out of my current state of being other than that.
01:06:33Other than what?
01:06:35Do what I did.
01:06:37Than killing her?
01:06:38Yes, because that would lead me to get psychiatric help.
01:06:42So you were killing her to get psychiatric help?
01:06:44Yes.
01:06:45It's hard to explain.
01:06:49So to you, killing Hela was the way out?
01:06:54Yes.
01:06:55And?
01:06:56And it was.
01:07:05Did she know you were going to kill her that night?
01:07:07Yes.
01:07:08So she asked you again that night.
01:07:09You said, okay, let's go in the room and I'll kill you now.
01:07:11Yeah.
01:07:12She lied already.
01:07:13Yeah, you went in.
01:07:14I don't want to get there.
01:07:16I can go this far.
01:07:17Do you want to hear a little bit?
01:07:19It's all right.
01:07:20It's all right.
01:07:21I sat over there, not to hold a restraining or something.
01:07:27I took the knife.
01:07:28She hold my hand, not to stop me.
01:07:32It was a form of...
01:07:34This is going to sound like serial killer.
01:07:36But it was like somebody holding your hand.
01:07:42You're going to go on board a ship or something.
01:07:44Yeah, okay, let's go.
01:07:45It was a partnership.
01:07:46Oh, let's go.
01:07:47She wanted comfort.
01:07:49And then I did it as quick as possible.
01:07:52That way that home should feel less.
01:07:56And that was to put it in the neck.
01:07:59So you cut off all the physical emotions directly.
01:08:05So the only thing that she will feel is just the sting.
01:08:10But I know that this knife is so sharp.
01:08:14So the body doesn't even react with the pain receptors before the nerves in the neck.
01:08:27So when they cut, she feels nothing.
01:08:30If you cut the big vein, you bleed out in an instant.
01:08:36And did you feel sad killing her?
01:08:38No, still not.
01:08:39Yeah.
01:08:40Because it was what she was asking about?
01:08:41Yes.
01:08:42So in your mind, is it any different than helping someone commit suicide?
01:08:47No, there is no difference.
01:08:48They're exactly like I see it.
01:08:54It's not murder.
01:08:55I am not a murderer.
01:08:56I am not a murderer.
01:09:02So all of the graphic things that happened with the crime, that was you because you wanted
01:09:07to go to an insane assignment.
01:09:08Yes.
01:09:09Because you had to prove to them that you were crazy.
01:09:12Yes.
01:09:13Cutting off her head.
01:09:15Yeah.
01:09:16I did.
01:09:17Of course.
01:09:18Yeah.
01:09:19So they were never questioning if I am insane or not.
01:09:32So you didn't want to eat her?
01:09:35No.
01:09:36I have wondered myself, but then I thought, do I think about it?
01:09:41Do I feel on the earth to do it again?
01:09:43And is there something I earthed to do before?
01:09:46No.
01:09:47Do I feel sexual policeman to think about doing?
01:09:54No.
01:09:55Why did you take her head into the kitchen?
01:10:13She was going to look insane.
01:10:15I watched a lot of movies.
01:10:17That was horrible.
01:10:18So I thought, if I put it there, that the people will watch me cook her.
01:10:25It looks extremely insane.
01:10:28And it is insane.
01:10:30I don't mean that I did was not insane.
01:10:33I mean that there is, in a way, a rational explanation with a semi-logic or semi-insane mind.
01:10:48The police report says that you had sex with her after she was dead.
01:10:52I didn't.
01:10:53You didn't?
01:10:54No.
01:10:55Did you make it look like it?
01:10:56Yes.
01:10:57You made it look like it?
01:10:58That was the thing even today.
01:11:01I regret because I don't feel that was necessary to stage two.
01:11:10But I wanted everything.
01:11:12So in a sense, you were creating your own perfect horror film.
01:11:18Not perfect.
01:11:19You have to remember I'm an artist.
01:11:21You cut off her head, eat part of her, make it look like you've had sex with her.
01:11:27That now follows you everywhere.
01:11:29Yeah.
01:11:30I know.
01:11:31Because the adult person is a lunatic.
01:11:35And you did that so that people would think that you needed to go to an insane asylum.
01:11:40Yeah.
01:11:41Yeah, of course.
01:11:42But trust me that I am not insane.
01:11:46Believe what you want.
01:11:47I'm telling the truth.
01:11:48And I know the only one person alive that knows the truth.
01:11:51And I'm sitting here and telling it.
01:11:52The whole nature of this crime is not just for Jamie, it's whether people choose to believe.
01:11:57Right?
01:11:58Like, that's what it comes down to, is can they believe you?
01:12:00If I can say to all the viewers something, they can think about this.
01:12:03If I can say to all the viewers something, they can think about this.
01:12:06The only person that knows the truth is me.
01:12:07So if they will choose to believe what you have read in a newspaper somewhere, that makes
01:12:12you an idiot.
01:12:13If you are an idiot, I don't care.
01:12:16I don't care.
01:12:18I don't care.
01:12:19I don't care.
01:12:20I don't care.
01:12:24I don't care.
01:12:25I don't care.
01:12:27I don't care.
01:12:30I don't care.
01:12:32I don't care.
01:12:34I don't care.
01:12:36If you choose to believe in something else, then you take a deep, good look at yourself
01:12:42in the mirror or say to yourself, I'm an idiot.
01:12:46Because that is what you are.
01:12:53Do you think about us often?
01:12:56Every day.
01:12:58Of course.
01:13:00We are connected.
01:13:02I feel it.
01:13:04Even when things are bad between us, I'm happy that you exist.
01:13:10So when I think of you, it's only happiness.
01:13:16I have chosen what I have chosen, so I have chosen that role.
01:13:20And I don't know if I have something to offer you, other than kind of more grief.
01:13:26But I will never harm you in an active decision.
01:13:28Never, ever.
01:13:30Or your kids.
01:13:32My biggest fear of my children meeting you wouldn't be that you would hurt them physically, but that you would affect them the way you did with me, like in a bad way that you would influence them.
01:13:57I'm afraid of that too.
01:13:59If I'm going to be in your life, I need your strength to keep me in check.
01:14:05You and Julia is a beautiful garden.
01:14:07I love that garden.
01:14:09It's beautiful.
01:14:10But if I am something that pollutes that garden, that means that I destroy what I love exists and love to watch.
01:14:21Do I understand?
01:14:22Yeah, I understand.
01:14:23But if you feel up for that too, even more burden, I would love to be in your life if you want that.
01:14:32Even with your dad yesterday, do you feel anything differently about him?
01:14:47I don't know.
01:14:48I saw him from an entirely different perspective.
01:14:53I saw him from a grown-up's perspective, a mum's perspective, before I used to see him from a child's eyes.
01:15:02And then, four years ago, he was still like my role model.
01:15:08And he was still like someone I looked up to and someone I listened to.
01:15:13But yesterday, I didn't feel that way.
01:15:16You know, there were many times yesterday during the interview where I felt I wanted to say something.
01:15:23And I wanted to say what I really was thinking and feeling.
01:15:30But I didn't dare.
01:15:31I didn't dare to speak up.
01:15:36I could see in his eyes that I shouldn't question him right now.
01:15:42I just didn't want him to snap.
01:15:53It's still the story about how he went through with the murder and everything around it.
01:16:00I still find it hard.
01:16:01I don't know if I should believe him or not.
01:16:04So do you like living here?
01:16:06Do you like this neighborhood?
01:16:07If you're a beggar, you can't be picky.
01:16:10That's true.
01:16:12I would never know what actually happened.
01:16:14But he wants me to believe, like, everything was a setup.
01:16:18Everything.
01:16:19And he didn't feel anything for it.
01:16:22Like, he didn't enjoy it in any way.
01:16:25And that he put Helle's head on by the sink on the counter just because he wanted it to look sick.
01:16:34I think he did it because he wanted to.
01:16:39And I think he wanted to live out a fantasy that he had had before.
01:16:48Like a real-life horror movie.
01:16:51Like the horror movies that he had shown me.
01:16:54That's why I believe.
01:16:57Do you think you got the closure you were hoping for?
01:17:05Earlier, when I ever brought up anything from my childhood to him and asked him for an apologize,
01:17:15he would just deny it ever happened.
01:17:18But yesterday, when I brought up the things I did about how I felt and experienced my childhood,
01:17:27he actually apologized.
01:17:30And he seemed to really be sorry.
01:17:35So, on that part, I really feel like I had, I got closure.
01:17:43So, you felt like his apology was sincere?
01:17:48Yeah.
01:17:49So, that's the thing.
01:17:50He knows how to behave like a normal person.
01:17:53He knows what feelings a normal person is supposed to be feeling.
01:17:57So, that's why I can never know what he says or does is real.
01:18:05Because he knows.
01:18:06He knows how you are supposed to act.
01:18:08He knows what you're supposed to say.
01:18:10He knows how you are supposed to feel.
01:18:12So, how am I supposed to know that he is being sincere and genuine?
01:18:20I can never know that if I can't go into his mind.
01:18:42Let's see now.
01:18:54It's many.
01:18:56I can start with all the way in there with dolls.
01:19:02This one.
01:19:10That one was scary.
01:19:12Are these supposed to be scary?
01:19:14No, no, no.
01:19:15I never think one second when I did it.
01:19:19Someone told me that these dolls are cursed.
01:19:24To me, they are pure, positive, good.
01:19:28Yeah.
01:19:29Because it make me, it helped me.
01:19:31If I didn't have it under that period, I probably would have died.
01:19:37The fact that I'm his daughter doesn't bother me.
01:19:39It's just like...
01:19:42I sometimes grieve that he's my dad.
01:19:46I think if someone walks down here at night now and see one of these, they're going to f*** themselves.
01:19:51That's why I cover it.
01:19:52Because I don't want to...
01:19:53I don't want to...
01:19:54At the...
01:19:55Neighbors, you're going to think something.
01:19:56Yeah.
01:19:57So...
01:19:58That's why.
01:19:59Mm-hmm.
01:20:01People comment and message me saying, how can you speak up about your dad?
01:20:06How can you be so open about this?
01:20:07You should be ashamed.
01:20:09But I'm not.
01:20:10Why should I?
01:20:11He's just my dad.
01:20:12He's not me.
01:20:13I've gained so much strength from being his daughter and going through what I've been through.
01:20:20So I'm proud.
01:20:21I'm proud that I am who I am.
01:20:24I am proud of myself and I'm proud I didn't turn out like him.
01:20:29Because, of course, I would have liked a normal dad that, you know, goes have dinners with me.
01:20:36And I would like a dad that could, like, babysit my kids and, you know, be a part of my life
01:20:43and not having to be scared of him, like, brainwashing me or something even worse.
01:20:50As it is now, I don't think my dad is ever going to be a big part of my kids' lives.
01:21:01If my children in the future want to see what he's like and have contact with him in any way they are, they can.
01:21:10I'm not sure what I'm going to do right now.
01:21:13I don't know if it's a good idea.
01:21:16As soon as he walks into a person's life, he has infected that person for the rest of the person's life.
01:21:25And you can't be around him without getting infected by him.
01:21:31What about you? Are you going to let him back into your life?
01:21:35I'm still debating. I don't know yet.
01:21:39I think my dad is capable of killing again if someone gives him a reason to.
01:21:48I think he would, yeah.
01:21:51He's got a limit.
01:21:54And you can't cross that.
01:21:56He wanted to look like the most evil kid in America.
01:22:11Those Moe shots are really, really hard to look at.
01:22:15Yeah, I'm still scared of them.
01:22:17Vakina, that person, that's not my brother.
01:22:21I lost my brother a long time ago.
01:22:28Man, I don't know if I should say this, I'm cameraman.
01:22:31My mind automatically go to homicide, right?
01:22:34I'm going to kill this person.
01:22:36How are you that you are capable of killing them?
01:22:38I'm not feeling too comfortable with being attacked with all these questions.
01:22:42I wanted to be known for something bad and evil.
01:22:52So I tap her shoulder, she wakes up, and I just start swinging the knife.
01:22:56What's worth $30,000?
01:22:57Somebody's life.