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00:00Thank you all for being here, and Heidi and Spencer, thank you for joining us at Variety's
00:05Entertainment Marketing Summit. We have known each other since, if memory serves, 2008,
00:14which is both terrifying and feels right. It feels like it's been a long time.
00:20I just wanted to say, first of all, how sorry I was about your home burning down in the Palisades
00:27fire and how glad I was that you and your two kids made it out safely. Can you share with us
00:35what's happening now with the house? You plan to rebuild, right? Oh.
00:44I'm not sure. It's definitely very challenging, so thank you to everybody who has supported us and
00:50your support through it. Sorry for anyone else who's been affected by that and other natural
00:55disasters. It's definitely been very eye-opening and very hard for us and our community to go
01:02through, so we appreciate that. I'm not sure if we can rebuild or not. I mean, our house wasn't
01:07very expensive or very big, and they're projecting that it will cost three times the amount to be
01:14able to rebuild it, and unfortunately, we didn't have a great insurance plan and the little bit
01:19that we did have they're refusing to give to us. So yeah, we're kind of just going to take it one
01:25day at a time. We're blessed to be alive and have our kids and that we are able to kind of move. So
01:31right now, we're currently residing in Santa Barbara, and we'll see what God has planned.
01:36Right. The good news is the hummingbirds are coming back. The hummingbirds are back, baby. I have been
01:42putting fresh nectar out in our dirt, so that's great. That was such a grim, chaotic time, and Spencer,
01:52your determination to get Heidi's album Superficial to number one on iTunes and Spotify was really like
02:01something that I feel like people rallied around and felt good as opposed to everything else that
02:07was happening then. Can you talk about how that happened, how you got that idea?
02:14Well, fortunately, unfortunately, that was the 15-year anniversary of the album was January 10th,
02:22and the house and the town burned down January 7th. So when I was realizing that actually we didn't
02:28have farmer's insurance anymore and we had no future house, I was like, oh my God, we got to sell a lot
02:36of singles here to rebuild the Palisades. So it was just weird timing that we'd already spent the last
02:45year working on a new album thanks to Chyna. Shout out Chyna. I'm cool with Chyna, everybody. So
02:52Heidi was trending and getting billions of streams on Douyin. Got Tripp coming up to Chyna soon.
03:00And so she, we were like, we asked Spotify and all the music platforms like, how do we keep these
03:07checks coming that were coming pre-fire? And they're like, oh, you got to keep feeding the
03:11algorithm. So Heidi went back in the studio and did 25 new records of all these young top writer
03:17producers. And then it was finished like the week before the house burned down. And so it was just
03:22like, oh my God, it's the best and worst thing that's ever happened.
03:25Yeah. And did you end up making money? You know, one thing I learned about the music business is
03:34it takes a lot to make money, but hey, shout out all the music partners. Love you guys.
03:42We, you know, maybe we made enough to put some furniture in the future house, but you know,
03:47that's why we're, Heidi's got a lot of big performances coming up to keep grinding. So yes,
03:53we made some money, but I probably should have just done more cameos.
03:57Right. And everything feels so small when something so horrible happens like that. But what was it like
04:07for you, Heidi, when Spencer is going live on TikTok and you know, what was that whole thing like for you?
04:15It was definitely a balance. We have two children. So I was glad that we could divide and conquer
04:20because it felt like we were able to cover both grounds, um, to be able to do what we could and
04:25monetize any little bit off the situation to be able to have my album that we had a planned
04:32to promote. And that was something that in our lives hadn't changed and was something that he
04:38was able to rally the world behind us and to have that deep love and support. And, you know,
04:43I was really with the kids and having to put them in a new school and move them and, you know,
04:50it's emotional. Um, and just be able to talk them through kind of what was going on. So I was really
04:58proud of Spencer and it was incredible for him to be able to do that for our family and to have our
05:05kids be able to have that as an example as well. And to show that you can move forward. And, um,
05:12I'm just very proud of Spencer that he was able to muster up that energy because it was very
05:17challenging to think in the moment, let alone be on the phone all day, every day with a million
05:23emails, TikTok live. I think he had like five phones going at once. So I'm still very impressed
05:29with him and very proud of him. Um, so many people who thought of Spencer as a reality TV villain,
05:36um, who viewers love to hate, um, had their minds changed that week. Um, what was that like for you,
05:43Spencer? I mean, it was good and bad. Cause it was like, Oh, won't be casted for any, you know,
05:50reality shows anymore. You know, I feel like they like good people. Um, but shout out, got to get out
05:56all episodes streaming right now on Hulu. Cause Hulu, ABC, Disney does like four quadrant family
06:02friendly shows. So check that out. Um, you know, I embrace the role all along, even though once you
06:10stop getting paid for being like a villain, it's not fun anymore. Right. But so that I didn't plan.
06:16Um, so it was a lot more fun having people coming up to me in the streets, like hugging me and like
06:21telling me they love me versus other things. Whatever people have said to you over the years.
06:27Um, you've both always been gifted when it comes to connecting with audiences. Um, how have your
06:34strategies for that evolved since your days, um, on the Hills?
06:41I think for both of us, it's just about being authentic and being able to really put ourselves
06:46out there. And that's what we've always done. And I think that's really, um, gravitated a lot of
06:52different people and people have been able to relate to that and attach to that. And in different
06:58parts of our lives, we've been able to share different parts of ourselves and we just continue
07:03to grow with that. And so does the younger generation and the generation that we have. And, um, we just
07:09continue to move forward. Um, once social media became such a powerful tool, it didn't really
07:18exist. Um, when you guys were on the Hills, um, how were you actively working on developing your
07:28followings? Uh, well, currently I'm shouting out China a lot, you know, and AI, I love AI. Um,
07:37you know, it's, it's a really crazy world because the more you talk to the powers that be at all these
07:44platforms, the algorithms are just alive and they're always changing. So what I've learned is
07:51just, you can't look at views. You can't look at numbers. You can't look at engagement. You just
07:55got to be consistent. You just got to keep posting and be active. And I feel like the more you engage
08:00with your communities, whatever platform they're on and just be in the comment section. And, you
08:06know, obviously there's people that hire people to do that, but people know the difference between
08:09like your tone in the comment section. So, I mean, I'm obviously Heidi has more things she's doing
08:15a day, but I'm responding as many DMS and writing back and sending videos. And I feel like that is
08:21keeps people understanding who you are and they want to support you. So I want to say I did that
08:27before our house burned down for so many years that the people that I have been doing that with,
08:32they were the ones who like stepped up, not necessarily the newer people are like, Oh, I feel bad,
08:37the people that I have been communicating with. So yeah, social media has changed everything for
08:44us. And I wish we'd had it during the Hills. Right. Because Heidi would have been the narrator.
08:49Oh, Lauren. How do you feel that TikTok has specifically has changed the conversation in
08:57Hollywood? I mean, I was ready to go to Washington for the first time ever when I thought TikTok was
09:04going away. And, you know, we're very successful on Snapchat. So I love it. Like actual money made,
09:10you can make more money on Snap. So I do love Snapchat, but there's nothing like the TikTok.
09:18It got a little weird lately. I got to be honest. It's gotten a little weird, but pre-ban and the
09:24comeback, it was just the greatest platform ever. And that was why we were able to beat Bad Bunny
09:32and the weekend and these people who have conglomerates, who I love these conglomerates,
09:36but, um, you know, there's so much money behind them, but you can't compete with real engagement
09:43from like a platform like TikTok when they get behind you. So I will, I mean, I'm literally selling
09:49certified pre-owned luxury handbags tomorrow on TikTok live for five hours with the number one
09:56Chinese live selling company, just because I want to be in business with China and TikTok. So,
10:04and Heidi's like, why are you doing this? I'm like, I don't know, but it's the future live selling,
10:09honey. So, you know, that's incredible. Um, uh, you mentioned got to get out the reality competition
10:17that you're on, on Hulu, um, which I watched, um, every day of your time there, you are wearing a
10:24Heidi t-shirt. You're wearing one right now. If you want to show people, I would stand up. This
10:30couch is so cozy. Um, how does TV fit into your plans? You know, I don't know if Hulu, ABC, Disney
10:39have blocked me because the amount of texts emails I've sent like, Hey, um, we could do our own show
10:46with like Heidi being a pop star in 15 countries where she's number one. And they keep on being like,
10:52Oh my gosh. Yes. Well, as we're missing a lot of good content here. So ideally, you know, the way
11:01they have treated me and brought Heidi in and, you know, we've never got the main post on any platform
11:07where, you know, all these famous people are there yesterday and they're using our photo, which is
11:11very important in the slideshow first. I'm like, this looks like type energy for people you want to
11:16have a show with. So that is very important. No matter what platform you're on TV is you can't
11:23compare. Like the other day, uh, my Tik TOK with ABC, Disney plus, and Hulu got 27 million views.
11:30And you can't do that without, you know, I could jump out a window right now and not get 27 million
11:36views. Please do not. Like we're on the ground floor. Uh, so one obvious idea for a new show would be,
11:46the aftermath of you guys dealing with whatever happens next after what happened to your home in
11:53the fires. Have you, has anyone approached you about that? Spoiler alert. We did shoot a pilot
12:00with Hulu and if the variety wants to run a cover story about it, you know, I've done.
12:07Let's just wait on all that. Um, yes. Breaking news, but you know, a lot of pilots get shot at this town.
12:13But yes, we would love to be, um, continuing our journey on TV. And I think that like Spencer is
12:19saying, there is nothing like television and it's great to have other platforms, but to have that TV
12:25home is a completely different component. And to be able to have that point of view is also very
12:32different. And that's great to have that perspective. And our family would love to do it. Gunnar keeps
12:37asking every day. So he would love to be involved, which is one of our children. Um, so yes, the, the
12:42music would be a part of it. Our family life, our dynamic, our team, we have a lot going on. So
12:49we'll see what, what the future holds. And if it's not Hulu, I hear YouTube is really easy to work
12:56with, you know, just really got a lot of hours of programming. People here. Um, it was during the
13:03Hills that the two of you became experts at self-promotion and self-marketing. Um, you worked
13:09with the paparazzi. Uh, this is something that went away when after social media, you know, became the
13:18main delivery system. Um, can you take us back to those days when us weekly and Perez and TMZ
13:26ruled this space? Like, how did you work with work those angles to keep yourselves in the headlines?
13:34It was like nothing anyone had ever seen before. Um, we started working together as a team. And I
13:45think we, you know, Spencer came in full force with his own, you know, his own connections,
13:53um, after selling photos in high school and I was in college, college, excuse me. I was 18. Can't be
14:00selling photos as a minor. Right. So when we started, when we started dating, he's like, let me manage
14:06you. And I was like, great, let's do it. I'm all in. And we just always worked together as a team and
14:10believed in each other and trusted in each other. And that's, you know, part of our success in our
14:15marriage. And then, yep, that's one. And then I got, um, cosmetic surgery and that was the first
14:21cover and we were able to. That was not your first cover. That was, wasn't it? No way. But called
14:28off the engagement. No, no. That was my second. Why I ended my engagement. Oh, okay. I've had two.
14:34Okay. Don't tell anybody. They all burned down, but I have them in my mind. Um, no. So it thankfully
14:42Kristen Cavallari started hooking up with Nick Lachey and I knew I could get a photo of this
14:49because I knew where they were hooking up. And so I called us weekly. Just, I don't even know if
14:55Google was around. Maybe I Googled it. Remember the yellow pages and shout out Peter Grossman
15:01answered the phone. He's the photo editor. I was like, if I could get you. And everybody wanted
15:05this photo. I was like, if I can get these. And he's like, haul, haul, haul. You're like, you'll
15:07never get it. I was like, I'll call you tomorrow with this photo. So I called this other Spencer I
15:12know whose, uh, sister was hanging out with Kristen. I was like, you got, I ended up getting no money out
15:16of this, but it did create the relationships. But I got the photo and it ran in us weekly. And then
15:23through that, we met, um, James Aliot who came from England to do Pacific coast news. So he taught us the
15:30game of like British paparazzi. And that's why here it didn't make sense. And we were like so over
15:36the top and ridiculous. But in England, like when we did celebrity big brother UK, we understood the
15:42whole idea of like Panto and their audience got it. It's just like, just ridiculous stuff. So now
15:48that's everybody's Instagram account. But, uh, so we started doing that with them and we started
15:52getting the checks in the mail for our split. We're like, this is paying more than the Hills at the
15:58time. So then we, and it was hard to get celebrities to smile and look at the cameras. And so we'd always
16:03bring the right colors, the right props, the ears, the, the silly things that we were so, um,
16:09ostracized and shamed for. But yeah, now it's definitely on everybody's Instagram. Uh, so yeah.
16:15And then shout out Janice Min. She was a huge teammate that really helped craft stories. Like she'd be
16:23like, would you guys be interested in it? We're like, yes, we're going to divorce. So that's
16:27you like, you know, it's authentic. Um, we were debating if we were eloping or divorce or splitting
16:32and we chose the elopement and here we are. So it was a good, good, good cover story. Um, but yeah,
16:38so Janice Min was a huge one, Dan Wakeford. And then of course Perez was just launching and having
16:45that relationship. It was kind of frustrating because we were so close with Perez and then like
16:49the Lady Gaga's and the Katy Perry's and everyone with more cloud and juice kind of like stole
16:55Perez from us. So we kind of had to pivot back to more of the mainstream. When we started talking
17:00to Perez, we were really looked down upon for talking to him too. And people were like, stay
17:03away from him and don't talk to him. We're like, why wouldn't we be in with him? Doesn't that make
17:07more sense? And so we always were, and we went to lunch with him and he actually helped with a lot
17:12of my music and being a great brain trust for us. And he's so smart and he's done so much in this
17:17industry. So, um, he definitely was very instrumental in a lot of our success and ideas as well. And we
17:24would take him to cut with our portraits on the wall once upon a time. So yeah, they burned down
17:30too. Um, do you have, what's the, do you have musical plans in the future, Heidi? What's on the horizon
17:38for you? Yeah, I'm performing at Hoopla. I'm coming up at the end of the month, which is 30,000 people.
17:43I'm very excited to, uh, that'll be my biggest performance yet. So I'm very excited for that
17:48in England and then, um, pride is coming up. So Seattle, San Francisco, New York. Um, and then
17:55just continuing to new single tomorrow, no going home. Yes. Correct. You want to cry and think
18:05about houses burning down. It's a banger. It's called no going home. Yeah. It's a sad hit.
18:14Tragic. Um, what is your favorite memory of your time on MTV during the glory days?
18:22Well, obviously I'm biased. You're sitting here getting the cover of LA times with you and it was
18:29framed on our wall. That was like a peak moment when that really didn't mean a lot. I did not mean
18:35for that to be the answer. Well, I mean, you're sitting here and I'm like, I love that so much.
18:40Had the whole spread. I know. Um, our elopement was great. And then MTV had to rush down and
18:47recapture it. Those conversations were fun. Um, I think that the view was always great and going
18:54to New York and having the fashion show on there. I mean, it was just the height of fame
18:58and kind of the end of that era that we didn't realize there isn't the same paparazzi and that
19:02same experience. So to have those memories and to have been able to be at the end of the nostalgia
19:08of Hollywood and kind of the height and beginning of, um, that was really great.
19:15Maxim, uh, that was great. All the covers.
19:18Everything was amazing. That's why try not to live in the past.
19:21Um, when you look around, uh, at influencers, like who do you look to who think you think
19:31are, is doing it right?
19:33I think Alex Earl's amazing. She's doing an incredible job. Addison Rae is also incredible
19:39that she's been able to pivot and exist in music and be able to be a main pop star. Um,
19:47and coming off of tick tock, I think those are two really stand out.
19:52I don't know if she'd consider herself an influencer, but Alex Cooper is definitely,
19:57you know, something like we watched her yesterday speak at the Hulu event. I was like, what a genius.
20:03So she, I would, I think it all blends, you know, if you're just a media entity now,
20:10I don't know if you're an influencer cause that has such like a negative connotation. Like you just
20:14put on makeup or which makeup's a big business, not shading it, but Kylie Kardashian, Kylie Jenner,
20:21whatever her name is. Um, that's all we have time for. Um, we'll end on Kylie. Don't tell anyone I
20:31said that. Uh, thank you so much. And I'm excited to see what's next for you guys. Thank you so much.
20:38We love you. Thank you.