The Indian Air Force on Thursday conducted a large-scale wargame "Exercise Aakraman" in the central sector, focusing on enhancing offensive capabilities across both mountainous and ground-based terrains.
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00:00Prime Minister's thundering message to the world.
00:20Big warning to terrorists and their backers.
00:30Modis will get the pledge in the middle of the war.
00:46Modis will get the pledge in the middle of the war.
00:49What are India's options?
01:05Wargaming, India's next move.
01:08The Indian Army, the Indian Navy and the Indian Air Force are carrying out special exercises even as we speak.
01:23The Indian Army is carrying out special heli-borne operation exercises and these include combat mobility exercises and this is happening in the sensitive South Western Command.
01:35And South Western Command is along the India-Pakistan border along Rajasthan and Gujarat.
01:42Now these exercises are very clearly aimed to display swift, silent and surgical operations.
01:50These, mind you, are exercises that are being carried out currently.
01:54So warriors test their combat mobility and they test coordination.
01:59This is the Indian Army exercise.
02:01The Indian Air Force is carrying out simultaneous exercises and this is a very major exercise that the Indian Air Force is also carrying out.
02:08So major Indian Air Force assets are being moved from the Central Command and visibly.
02:14So Indian Air Force exercises are both for operations in mountainous and plain terrain to target specific targets either in a mountainous terrain or in the plains.
02:28The IAF exercise is very aptly named Exercise Akramar.
02:33The Indian Air Force is carrying out these very major war games.
02:36These, of course, war games are in the Central Sector.
02:40Look at what the Indian Navy is simultaneously doing and let me get to the latest update on that.
02:45The Indian Navy from its destroyer INS Surat has fired an MR SAM, a medium range surface to air missile against a sea skimming target.
02:57And we're putting out those images on your television screen.
03:00So this is a medium range surface to air missile that's been tested, that's been fired.
03:05The MR SAM successfully destroyed a sea skimming target.
03:09This exercise is happening incidentally in the Arabian Sea.
03:14So the signals are out there very clearly for the whole world to see.
03:20You heard Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
03:22He was in Bihar.
03:23He spoke Hindi.
03:24But then when there was a signal, when there was a message that was for the world, he switched to English.
03:30And that message was very clear.
03:32India will track, trace and punish the perpetrators of terror.
03:37Not just those who carried out the terror, but those who are guiding these terrorists from behind the scenes.
03:42That's point one.
03:43Point two.
03:44India's spirit will never be broken by these radical Islamist terrorists, a word to that effect.
03:49Incidentally, I must also at this stage tell you, Pakistan has also issued a NAV area warning for life firing of a missile in the Arabian Sea.
03:59It's like NOTAM or notice to airmen, what the Air Force does or Navy does for a missile test.
04:05That's what Pakistan has done.
04:06And this NAV area warning is covering a vast area along its coastline and the exclusive economic zone.
04:13So as you look at the ground situation, after Pakistan backed radical Islamist terrorists carried out a targeted attack.
04:21Targeting those tourists in Pehelgaam.
04:25Asking them their names in some instances, asking them to recite the Kalma and those who couldn't were shot dead at point blank range.
04:34And this has horrified the entire nation.
04:36It's actually horrified the entire world.
04:38So there's major signalling that's on.
04:40Indian Army's heliphone operations, these exercises are in the Sapt Shakti Command.
04:47Navy's test, the MR SAM is in the Arabian Sea and the Indian Air Force exercise and that's very crucial.
04:53You must understand this.
04:54The Indian Air Force exercise is actually displaying its C4I2SR.
04:59Now that's a technical term.
05:00What does C4I2SR mean?
05:02It means command, control, communication, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance skills being tested,
05:08being put to operational tests because these are skills that are required in combat.
05:13What are the aircraft that are being used?
05:15Interoperability is something big with the Indian Air Force.
05:18So you have the Russian Su-30 MKI's and the French Rafale's, their Omni-Role fighters that are a part of these exercises.
05:26And let me quickly cut across to India today's Shivani Sharma who joins us with the latest on this big story.
05:32Shivani, get us the latest inputs on the nature and scope of the exercises that are currently being carried out
05:38and focus on the C4I2SR of the Indian Air Force exercises involving the Rafale's, the Sukhoi's and what other assets are being used here?
05:47Well, Gaurav Akraman is a very significant air exercise that is being carried out in the central sector.
05:58And all the leading assets of the Indian Air Force including the Su-30s and the Rafale's are participating in this particular exercise.
06:06Most important is the timing of the exercise because after the Pahalgam attack,
06:11India is into deliberations to retaliate against the terror that Pakistan has been pushing into Indian boundaries.
06:18And this exercise is performing complex operations both on the mountainous as well as plains.
06:26So this is an important exercise.
06:28But let me also tell our viewers that the Indian Air Force has very specifically clarified that this is a routine exercise.
06:36So we should not read beyond this more than this that this is a routine exercise.
06:42But yes, this is an important exercise.
06:44This is happening at a crucial time.
06:46And all the air assets from multiple air bases of the Indian Air Force have been pushed into action in this exercise, Akraman.
06:54Shivani, keep tracking that story.
06:57I will come back to you for more on this.
06:59So the Navy is carrying out its exercises and missile tests.
07:03The Army is carrying out helibon operation exercises and the Sub Shakti Command and the Indian Air Force is carrying out its own Su-30 and Rafale based exercises using of course many, many more assets.
07:14Now, what is the intention?
07:16Based on what Prime Minister Narendra Modi said, terror has to be hunted down, terror has to be tracked and destroyed.
07:23What are some of the scenarios that India can do?
07:26We've been speaking to some of the experts and some will be joining us on this India Today's special broadcast.
07:32So what are some of the possible targets that you and I are aware of?
07:36Targets that are known where Pakistan and this is this is the tragedy of a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror like Pakistan that terrorism is out there in the open for all to see.
07:47So for example, Bahawalpur is the headquarters for a UN designated banned terrorist organization called Jaish-e-Mohammed.
07:54Murit K is the headquarters of the other UN designated banned terrorist organization called Lashkar-e-Taiba.
08:00Of course, in India, they masquerade under this so-called secular name of the resistance front.
08:06They can be targeted.
08:07There are other terror launch paths.
08:09There are other terror bases and camps like the one at Balakot and Khaybar Pakhtunkhwa that was decimated in 2019.
08:17One message that's very clearly emerged after the Pahlgaam attack is one Balakot is not enough to deter a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror.
08:25What are some of the assets that India has?
08:28The Brahmo supersonic cruise missile, for example, or the Prithvi-3 missile that can be used or the scalp missiles can be fired off a Rafale fighter jet.
08:37Remember, we didn't have either the Rafales or the scalps or the meteors in 2019.
08:42Something that Prime Minister Narendra Modi had referred to because if we did in 2019, Pakistan wouldn't even have dared to attempt an Operation Swift retort because we would have had those beyond visual range missiles.
08:55And of course, this interoperability would have been much better with the Rafales and the Sukhois and the AVAX operating in tandem.
09:02Scenario two is something that is a nightmare for Pakistan, and that is the blockade of the Karachi and the Gwadar ports.
09:10It's a very innocuous step that India may just take by carrying out exercises in the Arabian Sea.
09:16That's very natural. It's international waters.
09:18But when you carry out life firing missiles drills in the Arabian Sea, what does that mean?
09:24It means fuel supply to Pakistan will be adversely impacted.
09:28It could get cut off if it's a long exercise.
09:30That's point one point two.
09:31Civil and cargo movement may either be halted or become extremely expensive because every ship when it crosses an area,
09:39whether a military exercise is going on for a prolonged period of time or there's an apprehension or there's a threat.
09:43Well, they may raise insurance costs and then that would also increase costs for a Pakistan that's anyway on the verge of bankruptcy.
09:52It's surviving on arms and doles it gets from benefactor countries.
09:56But perhaps how long remains the big question because that too is a scenario.
10:00Scenario three is covert operations and this becomes very interesting because this is where you need to take down high value terror targets and strategic targets in Pakistan.
10:10This is where India has to be very clear.
10:12And the entire Indian opposition was with the government, especially after Pehal Gaam.
10:18The nation is horrified in the manner in which those radical Islamist terrorists singled out tourists and killed them at point blank range.
10:25Some of those images are so horrifying we can't even show them to you when people have been shot dead at point blank range.
10:30They asked their names, asked to identify their religion and when they couldn't recite the Kalma they were shot dead.
10:35So this is retribution time. For who? For terrorists like a UN designated banned global terrorist, the Professor of Terror Hafiz Said or that Maulana of Terror.
10:46Again a UN designated banned terrorist, Masood Azhar.
10:49Or the key commander involved in 2611 Mumbai terror attacks, Zakir Rahman Lakwi fathering children in jail.
10:56Or the 1993 Mumbai blast convict Daoud Ibrahim Kaskar.
11:01257 people were killed in 12 serial blasts in 1993 in Mumbai.
11:05Then of course the financer of 2611, Sajid Meel.
11:09A key aide of Daoud Ibrahim.
11:11Chhota Shaqeel Tiger Mehman.
11:13One of the main plotters of the recent attacks in Pehal Gaam.
11:16Saifullah Khalid.
11:17There are so many terrorists who need to be taken down.
11:20Pakistan is you know per square meters maximum number of UN designated and US designated banned terrorists in any country are in terror central.
11:31That is Pakistan.
11:32What is extremely crucial is also scenario four.
11:35You see this is a battle that also needs to be fought in the minds and specially a radicalized mind like in Pakistan.
11:42When you have an army chief who is the son of a Mawlana and is equally a zealot who is a radical Islamist.
11:49Who thinks as many argue.
11:51He thinks of himself as the next Mohammed bin Qasim or a Mohammed Gauri or a Mehmood of Ghazni.
11:57He thinks he is going to take this Ghazwa-e-Hind against India.
12:01That is the radicalized mindset of Asim Munir.
12:04Now when you have somebody like that who is leading Pakistan.
12:07Information warfare becomes extremely critical and the world must know.
12:11The world must know.
12:12Like India has given dossiers of Pakistan's involvement in Pehal Gaam or the evidence of Pehal Gaam.
12:19To not just the ambassadors of P5 countries but also other important ambassadors today in Delhi.
12:25That's the information warfare that India needs to fight at multiple levels including on social media.
12:30Expose ISI sleeper cells worldwide.
12:34Very important.
12:35Which are these ISI sleeper cells?
12:37For example David Coleman Hedley.
12:39Who was a Lashkar-e-Taiba sleeper cell in the United States of America.
12:42Or that Captain Tahawar Hussain Rana.
12:44That absconder of Pakistan army.
12:46Who is currently in India extradited after much effort.
12:48He was the Lashkar-e-Taiba sleeper cell in Canada.
12:51Or people like Hulam Nabi Fai.
12:53Paid ISI agents living in the United States of America.
12:56Spewing venom against India sitting in the United States of America.
12:59And how many more.
13:01There's a big dossier and now it's being given to various countries in Europe and the United States of America.
13:07Then there's another aspect that's hotly being debated.
13:10Diplomatic support to freedom movements in Balochistan and in Khaywar Pakhtunkhwa.
13:15India does not support terror.
13:18India should India be supporting or highlighting the plight of the people of Balochistan.
13:24And the Pashtuns in Khaywar Pakhtunkhwa.
13:26And the atrocities of Pakistan army.
13:28Scenario number five.
13:30And this is perhaps one of Pakistan's worst nightmares.
13:34Imagine if India.
13:36And this is a question that I'll be putting to former Chief of Army Staff General Deepa Kapoor who joins us in a bit.
13:42Imagine.
13:43Pakistan shot the ceasefire with India.
13:46So the 770 kilometer long line of control is peaceful.
13:50Because of that Pakistan was able to move two divisions plus.
13:54And that's good.
13:55More than 40,000 soldiers along the India Pakistan LOC to its AFPAC border.
13:59To the Durand line.
14:00Where Pakistani soldiers are being slaughtered every other day.
14:03By Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan fighters.
14:07And also by Baloch Liberation Army in Balochistan.
14:10So Pakistan's 2,640 kilometer long Durand line is bleeding.
14:15Pakistan is bleeding there.
14:17But Pakistan is safe at the LC.
14:19But it's bleeding our people.
14:20It's just Pakistan Army was involved in trying to send in terrorists in Uri sector.
14:26Two terrorists were killed just yesterday.
14:27So why should there be a ceasefire at the LOC?
14:30That's a question that the country is grappling with.
14:32The cabinet committee on security.
14:34Defense ministry.
14:35They're all talking about it.
14:36Thinking about it.
14:37If India should once again open the LC.
14:40In terms of the heavy artillery.
14:43And the waters once again opening up.
14:45That is Pakistan's worst nightmare.
14:47Because if it has a hot line of control.
14:49And if it has a hot Durand line.
14:51Well Pakistan Army will be stretched.
14:53Fighting on the India-Pakistan LOC.
14:56On the Afghan-Pakistan Durand line.
14:58And of course in Khaybar-Pakhtunkwa internally.
15:00And in Balochistan.
15:02The Pakistan Army cannot fight this.
15:03Then this Islamist zealot that Asim Munir is.
15:06His own country will realize how evil he is.
15:09So Pakistan should be stretched along the LC.
15:13And the Durand line.
15:15And internally.
15:16Make Pakistan Army fight on multiple fronts.
15:18Because do remember.
15:19The more Pakistan Army bleeds.
15:22The less India will bleed.
15:24That's very clear.
15:26Let me now take you.
15:27To a top story.
15:31Prime Minister Narendra Modi was very clear.
15:33When he said.
15:34India will identify.
15:36Track and punish.
15:37Every terrorist.
15:39Every terrorist.
15:40Their handlers and backers.
15:42Involved in the Pehelgaam attack.
15:44And the Prime Minister thundered in Bihar today.
15:46His address of course was in Hindi.
15:48But.
15:49When there was a message for the world.
15:51The Prime Minister spoke English.
15:52So that.
15:53There is no scope.
15:54Of any loss.
15:55In translation.
15:56Either.
15:57For that state sponsor of radical Islamist terror.
15:59Or for the world.
16:00Prime Minister.
16:01Made India's intention very very clear.
16:03India will pursue the terrorists.
16:05And the backers.
16:06To the end of the earth.
16:08And that India's spirit.
16:09Will never be broken.
16:10We get you more.
16:11In this report.
16:12Today.
16:13From the soil of Bihar.
16:14I say.
16:15To the whole world.
16:16India will.
16:17Identify.
16:18Drag.
16:19And punish.
16:20Every terrorist.
16:21And their backers.
16:22We will pursue them.
16:24To the ends of the earth.
16:26India's spirit will never be broken by terrorism.
16:27We will pursue them.
16:28To the ends of the earth.
16:29India's spirit will never be broken by terrorism.
16:30Terrorism.
16:31Terrorism will not go.
16:32To the ends of the earth.
16:33To the ends of the earth.
16:35And their backers.
16:40We will pursue them.
16:44To the ends of the earth.
16:47In this report.
16:48We will overlook them.
16:49The ends of the earth.
16:50We will pursue them.
16:51To the ends of the earth.
16:52India's spirit will never be broken by terrorism.
16:57terrorism will not go unpunished every effort will be made to ensure that justice is done
17:10the entire nation is firm in this resolve everyone who believes in humanity is with us
17:27whose
17:57there is currently panic in pakistan after the announcement that was made in india about the
18:03indus waters treaty being held in appearance pakistan of course takes some time to comprehend
18:10these things to understand these things and the buzz on the ground in pakistan is
18:18that pakistan will turn into a desert that's not what india has said but pakistan is panicking
18:23and of course there are some in pakistan who say if india stops the water of the indus river it will
18:28be seen as an act of war so pakistan is also trying to now drum up some nationalism jingoism and
18:35support for pakistan's army chief general asem munir seen more as an islamist but that's a
18:40separate debate joining me now on this india today's special broadcast is ambassador yash sinha india's
18:48former high commissioner to the united kingdom somebody who spent a long time as initially as
18:53joint secretary and then additional secretary at the pakistan afghanistan iran desk at the ministry
18:59of external affairs and when pakistan took this indus waters treaty case to the permanent court of
19:04arbitration he was part of fighting back and ultimately won that case so ambassador sinha i
19:12want to understand from you and for the benefit of our viewers sir what does holding the indus waters
19:18treaty in abeyance actually mean why is pakistan in panic i think what the government of india has
19:26announced is an ultimatum to pakistan that unless they switch off the faucet of terrorism there will
19:35be a price to pay and the indus water treaty which is the lifeline of pakistan eighty percent of the waters
19:42of the indus water system goes to pakistan india was extremely generous in as an upper riparian state
19:50to allocate so much water to pakistan but pakistan in return apart from acts of terrorism is even blocked
19:59every project that india tries to do which is allowed permissible the run of river projects on the western
20:06rivers in uh of the indus system and i recall that was 12 2011 2012 when they took the matter of the kishin
20:16ganga hydroelectric project to arbitration i happened to be the co-agent for india and we had the redoubtable
20:25late fali nariman as our lead council and we argued uh in the arbitration that what we were doing was very
20:34much within the four walls of the treaty and that judgment that came from the court was in our favor
20:40and yet again pakistan has now taken this matter the kishin ganga project again to arbitration
20:47and of course they've also appointed a very bizarre situation where there's a neutral expert going into
20:53this and a court of arbitration also examining it so i think pakistan plays a very obstruct obstructionist
21:00role okay and for us there is no real merit uh no real gain in continuing the charade uh of adhering
21:08to the treaty but right now we have just issued a warning and pakistan should take it seriously
21:14so what does this warning truly mean uh clearly water will continue to flow uh you know if we were to
21:23talk about the upper we're in upper riparian state and we were talking about the western uh you know
21:28rivers chinab jhelam and indus pakistan continues to get 80 percent we retain 20 percent but we're not
21:34even harnessing our 20 percent so why is there this panic in pakistan uh many would argue you can't stop
21:41that water you can't store it our own country will get flooded so is this an empty threat ambassador so as
21:46far as far as the western rivers are concerned we only have run of the river projects we do not block
21:54water from flowing we do not have that sort of storage capacity in fact the dispute that pakistan
22:01uh but that took us to the arbitration was on the issue of the dead storage level and the size of
22:09the sluice gates now as far as india is concerned we have been adhering to the provisions of the
22:16treaty and till now uh the various processes of dispute resolution have borne that out however
22:25the threat that india is or is making now as far as the eastern rivers are concerned we already are
22:32using it may not be a hundred percent uh but you see the ravi in lahore and you'll see that we are
22:38utilizing as per the treaty the waters of the ravi uh or the bias or the sutlej for that matter but as far
22:46as the western rivers are concerned if we raise for instance just an example and a hydrological
22:52engineer would be able to explain that better than i could but if you raise the dead storage level
22:58or we increase the size of these sluice sluice gates then you could conceivably stores more water
23:07than you would probably do in normal course and to obviously to divert waters is a very long term
23:14expensive exercise but it's not improbable okay but if we were to even utilize uh or you know not give
23:22them extra water or not even share data would that be detrimental to pakistan because if the treaty is in
23:29abence then are we obliged to share data and if we do not share data is pakistan in trouble
23:35well as far as the sharing of data is concerned particularly during the monsoon this data is
23:42very valuable because it gauges the flow of the river especially the western rivers and if india stops
23:49giving data then prior flood warnings etc would not be easily available to pakistan pakistan must realize
23:58the folly of the course of action that they've adopted because for them the waters of the indus
24:05and at its tributaries are vital it's self-sustaining it is important for their agriculture
24:11and i think they must realize that terror and it cannot go hand in hand with seeking cooperation
24:18and the generosity of india as far as the water of the indus and its tributaries are concerned
24:25okay now uh you know before i go to some of the scenarios uh that that we are discussing on the special
24:32broadcast especially after what prime minister narendra modi said i also want to understand from you
24:37pakistan says if india were to stop the indus waters uh flow to pakistan and there is some panic in
24:43their country this would be seen as an act of war um is is there merit in pakistan's contention or you
24:53know is that is india able to send across that message that water for pakistan cannot be more
24:58precious than blood of indians that pakistan continues to spill and has been for decades sir
25:06this is saber rattling on the part of pakistan power for the course for that country india is not
25:12blocking the waters of the indus or even the western rivers and india has not done so so far and i
25:18don't think the announcement yesterday even hinted that that would happen however cooperation under the
25:26framework of the treaty is now put on hold it's held in abeyance so if we do not share data if we decide
25:33to work on projects like the kishan ganga the tulbul navigation project on the uh jhelum the ratlay
25:41project on the chenab we would be well within our rights perhaps and and india has started doing
25:48that in in many instances since 2019 a warning was issued to pakistan even in 2019 uh after the pulvama
25:56terror attack so pakistan today cannot turn around and say you didn't want us uh this is this is a
26:01grave escalation india has repeatedly won them after uri after pulvama and now taken some action after the
26:10pehlgam terror attack now what are india's options let's now throw this open joining me now on this
26:17india today's special broadcast is general deepak kapoor former chief of the army staff general kapoor
26:24welcome on india today you heard prime minister narendra modi in bihar where he said we will track
26:32trace hunt and punish not just the perpetrators of terror but also those who back them those who shield
26:39them what is your appreciation of what the prime minister said after the pehlgam terror attack sir
26:51let me be historically correct to say that since 1947 when india got independence pakistan has
26:59indulged in four adventurous action in the form of wars in 1965 48 65 71 and 1919 at kargil and in all these
27:13it has not succeeded having not succeeded militarily in all these wars pakistan decided to bleed the indian
27:21army by a thousand cuts in its own words and that is how in the year 1989 this action of insurgency
27:32supported financially economically and militarily by pakistan started and for the last 36 years
27:44this terror cycle has seen various ups and downs and in the ebb and flow of this terror cycle gradually
27:55thanks to the efforts made by india the situation in kashmir has been turning towards stability and
28:05normalcy and for the last five six years since the time in on fifth august the abrogation of article 370 was
28:15announced gradually the connectivity in jammu and kashmir has improved in the form of real connectivity
28:24also linkages across the peer panjal rate in form of road connectivity have also improved improved
28:32there is a degree of peace which has prevailed for the last three to four years in the valley and we
28:38were hopeful that the situation will continue to keep improving but definitely it was not to the
28:44pakistani army's designs and general i want you to listen to prime minister narendra modi for a moment
28:49viewed by us when okay i want you to listen to prime minister narendra modi and usually when he speaks in
28:56hindi it's a message perhaps domestically but he chose in bihar to speak english and i want you to
29:04listen into it what does this mean what are the implications and we will then discuss certain
29:09scenarios on the basis of what prime minister narendra modi said listen in i thank the people of various
29:17countries and their leaders who have stood with us in this time today from the soil of bihar
29:30i say to the whole world india will identify
29:41i track and punish every terrorist and their backer
29:51we will pursue them to the ends of the earth india's spirit will never be broken by terrorism
30:06terrorism terrorism will not go unpunished every effort will be made to ensure that justice is done
30:22the entire nation is firm in this resolve everyone who believes in humanity is with us
30:37so when prime minister narendra modi says that atank ke liye jo bachi kuchi zameen hai wo bhi khatma ho
30:45jayegi nashd ho jayegi whatever territory remains for terror uh whether it's terrorists or their backers
30:51it'll be destroyed general deepak kapoor i want you to consider certain scenarios on the basis of what
30:57prime minister narendra modi indicated um india has already carried out a surgical strike it's carried out
31:02an air strike in balakot after pulwama i want you to consider scenario one a missile strike
31:10what could perhaps some of the possible targets be of course the army knows the armed forces know what
31:16to strike but for example the better known targets uh jayshem mohammad headquarters in bahawalpur
31:21lashkar-e-taiba headquarters in muridke uh terror launch pads in pakistan occupied jammu and kishmir or
31:26uh if you were to hurt terror backers what can be hurt what can be used is a missile strike in your
31:35appreciation a feasible scenario general kapoor
31:43uh let me express very frankly it would there's no point being speculative on these issues first and
31:50foremost i'd like to emphasize there has to be a composite integrated approach towards uh the
31:57response that we have to consider and go ahead with and to that extent diplomatically and politically
32:05certain actions have been taken in the form of suspension of the indus water treaty and various
32:10other measures which the government of india have already announced and prime minister bodhi is
32:15absolutely right when he says that there is no place for terror in in the world and nor in india nor
32:21in jammu and kashmir as well there are a large number of different options which are available to the
32:28military both in a combined integrated fashion as well as to the army at the tactical and the strategic
32:37level so those are options which i am sure the government of india as well as in consultation with
32:43the military hierarchy would be considering the option of using missiles or launch or attacking the
32:51launch pads or various vulnerable posts those are options which are available some some of these options
32:58were exercised during balakot as well as the uri strikes as to what the decision is taken on these
33:05it's a matter of how it will play out considering the kind of support which is coming in internationally to
33:12india for this dastardly terrorist act by the pakistan army and its handlers who have been responsible for
33:22this act of terrorism where individuals civilians have been targeted and killed so uh it would be futile
33:31to think of different uh and speculate on different scenarios without all the facts i think i would it
33:39be better left to the military hierarchy as well as the government of india to decide on these acts
33:44fair enough um and uh you know since you mentioned diplomatic options since you mentioned whole of the
33:50nation approach uh i want to bring in ambassador sina into this conversation uh once again ambassador sina
33:55uh the fact that india used fighter jets not just to cross the line of control but hit across the international border uh without declaration of war uh in 2019
34:07in 2019 and the next day the pakistani response their fighters did not cross over to the indian side i want
34:13to understand from you if in 2025 there was to be there were to be a missile strike would that be seen as escalation
34:23well certainly it would because uh uh till now we haven't had missile strikes as far as uh india and pakistan
34:31goes particularly when we're not fighting a war so i think a missile strike would be an escalation but
34:38then i wouldn't like to second guess what the government has uh planned because certainly the
34:44government will give a muscular response what that will be i think we should leave it to our decision makers
34:51i am sanguine that whatever course of action that the government decides the people of india will unite
34:59behind the government in a stiff response to the perpetrators of terror oh absolutely i completely
35:07agree with you uh you know the fact that uh terror has to be punished the fact that prime minister said
35:13there has to be no territory left for terrorists and their backers and in your appreciation uh jell deepak kapoor
35:21would the pakistani state or the pakistani military jihad complex army isi do they constitute part of terror
35:32backers uh in in in your appreciation in india's assessment
35:36look let me be very frank that pakistan has its own tremendous problems economic political as well as
35:52military as to how much they can support this jihadist elements in carrying on with terrorism in the
35:59the jnk area is a matter of doubt because their own economy is in doldrums as to whether in all this the
36:09pakistan military establishment can continue to retain control of the political landscape within pakistan
36:16is also a question mark as to how it will play out is a matter of time notwithstanding that the indian
36:23military as well as the political establishment is quite aware of the realities and i am sure the kind
36:30of action that they propose would take care of uh the effort that are being made by pakistan to use
36:37terrorism as a weapon especially when a tremendous amount of peace and stability was returning to the
36:43state of jammu and kashmir they are attempting also to give a kind of support to a religious divide
36:52within our country which i'm sure need to be resisted with all our might and ensure that terrorism
36:59doesn't find a place within our country no but that's the problem with a country like pakistan
37:04and with a chief like asem munir in pakistan an army chief like asem munir they have no money they know
37:10it you know it we know it but the fact remains they still continue to support terror the fact remains
37:16they still continue to sponsor terror in india i mean that's a country that will cut its nose to
37:21spite its face uh uh you know you you know that better than anybody else as does ambassador sinna
37:26and which is what brings me to scenario number two and considering you spoke of their economic uh
37:31distress if the indian navy were to carry out a series of exercises in the north arabian sea
37:37or around the arabian sea would that would that be a nightmare for pakistan because ultimately uh that
37:45would in a way without officially doing that lead to a blockade of karachi and guadar so whether it's
37:51cargo ships whether it's oil tankers uh either they wouldn't be able to come or they if they do uh
37:57you know fuel supply to pakistan would be impacted civil and cargo movement would either be halted or with
38:04increased insurance it would be much more expensive and unaffordable for a state that's literally living on on
38:12on arms it's literally living on bed borrowed perhaps stolen money so should we be intensifying
38:20naval operations and exercises in the arabian sea in your appreciation jill deepak kapoor
38:30i think we would be indulging in the realm of speculative thinking uh when we talk about either naval
38:37army or air force actions uh please remember there is a composite headquarters the integrated defense
38:43staff and the government of india i am sure when any steps have to be taken they will be taken in
38:51total consideration of all these factors whether it is to be combined operation by air force navy and
38:59the army or restricted in certain other spheres or whether the besides are to be used so these are
39:06areas with the government of india and the powers that are currently dealing with the situation will
39:12be fully aware of and they will take an appropriate action all that i would like to say is that uh as
39:19the country is behind whatever they decide to do it will be coordinated action integrated fully and
39:27that will take care of the kind of retaliation that we wish to plan towards pakistan and its military
39:35establishment okay ambassador sina if india's effort is to ensure that pakistan does not have funds uh
39:42for terror and you know whatever little funds they have they've been begging for money from the
39:48international monetary fund uh they've been begging saudi arabia united arab emirates uh bartering uh their
39:54territory or our territory to china and yet sponsoring terror so would squeezing funds out of pakistan be an
40:02option and should that be an option and i'm sure that's an option but what do you make of naval
40:07exercises uh there's nothing that pakistan can do i mean it's international what is it we were to carry
40:11out exercises look as far as pakistan is concerned i have always maintained that it's a sick man of asia
40:19the sick man of asia surviving on a drip and it's not a recent phenomenon for many years the benefactors may
40:27have changed but pakistan's obsessive uh hatred for india remains the same so i think squeezing of funds
40:38whatever funds they have they will deploy against india because of their obsession and i think the people
40:45of pakistan must realize that their army their decision makers are leading them down a path of
40:53destruction so i think it's time for the people to ensure that its leadership steps back from the brink
41:03okay i for them for a moment also want to talk about uh you know what pakistan often describes general
41:09deepa kapoor as namaloom of fraud or unknown gunmen we don't know who they are pakistan claims they're
41:18indians we have no idea or they claim they're pakistan is backed by indians again we have
41:22absolutely no idea but is that is that working to take out terrorists who may have been involved
41:31in actions in jammu and kashmir because i'm told the intelligence agencies and networks know who all
41:36were responsible whether they were state actors semi-state actors non-state actors um i'm told they're
41:42all 50 shades of hafiz saeed anyways but um you what is described often as covert operations neutralized
41:49high value terror targets or strategic targets uh in in pakistan targeted assassinations in pakistan
41:57is that something that would deter pakistan uh as a terrorist state or they are they've gone so down
42:04the road that you know it's it's like a drug addict even though he knows drugs are bad he can't do anything
42:10about it and pakistan is addicted to terror general kapoor
42:20i would not like to indulge in speculative thinking but i'd like to ask you a counter question
42:25haven't the isi of pakistan been trying to invoke trouble of all kinds within our country from time
42:33to time the history of the for the last 75 years or so that besides the military operations
42:41time and again the isi have tried different means to
42:47incite communal hatred within our country which is something which we have stoutly defended against
42:54so these are covert operations which they've carried out if they are now speculating about
43:01naval room killers well that's something they they are quite familiar with and what they are familiar with
43:09i suppose they are supposed to be expecting what they have been uh dealing all along in india with so if
43:18namaloom killers have done some actions
43:22i suppose uh it only shows that those uh namaloom killers
43:28have had the time and the effort to take care of people who have been
43:37the hot heads of terrorism who have been spreading terrorism not only within our country but across
43:44the world oh absolutely that's a very pertinent point you make because uh ambassador sina as you know
43:50better uh pakistan has for example madeline obright uh described she described pakistan as the
43:57international terror epicenter uh pakistan anyways is seen as the global terror uh central osama bin laden
44:04found and killed there david coleman headley was lashkar-e-tahiba's sleeper cell in america
44:09uh captain tahover hussein rana who's been extradited to india now was lashkar-e-tahiba's sleeper cell
44:14in canada they carried out or attempted to carry out a terror attack in europe so
44:19is is the world or can the world unite to target pakistan's military jihad infrastructure or is that
44:29best left to the victims of terror and currently perhaps india afghanistan and certain other countries
44:36i think the fact that pakistan is a state sponsor of terrorism is widely known i mean right from its
44:45inception it has used the fig leaf of non-staked actors whether it was the tribals razaqaars 47 48
44:55in 65 they launched operation gibraltar uh in 99 uh in kargil they're the not the northern light infantry
45:04was involved but they denied they refused to take back even their dead bodies so pakistan has a history
45:1026 11 they denied that they were pakistanis till uh kasab the identity of kasab was clearly proven
45:18so i think the world knows that pakistan can hide behind what they consider to be non-state actors
45:26but everyone knows that they are the ones who are sponsoring it uh they're sponsoring these acts of
45:32terrorism sponsoring these terrorists so i think even the one the attack in pehelgaam was executed with
45:38some amount of precision they certainly would have had support from the pakistan jihadi complex the
45:46military jihadi complex which brings me to scenario number four and something that perhaps already is
45:52happening is exposing pakistan state support to terror globally expose isi sleeper cells worldwide like
46:02tahavur hussein rana like david coleman headley like hulam nabi fi uh that pakistan isi uh operative in in
46:10the united states of america of course headley uh tahavur rana hulam nabi fi they were all exposed
46:15by the federal bureau of investigation uh some sources seem to indicate that there was tremendous intelligence
46:21cooperation between india and the united states of america should india also be lending ambassador
46:30support diplomatic support uh emotional support to the freedom fighters of balochistan and those
46:37pashtuns uh you know the movement there against pakistan's atrocities whether it's in balochistan or in
46:45khyber pakhtun hua as far as india is concerned india is a responsible state india is not a state
46:53sponsor of terrorism so india does not behave like pakistan and that is why india's credentials
47:00are well respected and that is why today india's ranking or india's standing in the committee of
47:07nations is so high so i wouldn't like to go down to the level that pakistan has stooped and as far as
47:13india is concerned what is happening in balochistan what is happening in khyber pakhtun hua is an eternal
47:20matter of pakistan yet it does concern every person who loves democracy freedom rights and the right to
47:29choose and i think as far as uh what's happening in pakistan is concerned it is a blowback it's a
47:36frankenstein's monster that is now turning on its creator okay is that also your appreciation uh general
47:45kapoor uh you know we saw what happened at the jafar express the way pakistan army is unable to move
47:51around openly in uh in khyber pakhtun hua and in balochistan the ever since taliban took over in
47:58afghanistan pakistan thought it was second freedom movement or words to that effect uh they permitted
48:05ttp uh tariqe taliban pakistan uh fighters to come into their territory and pakistan has been bleeding
48:12ever since what do you make of what's happening in balochistan and in kpk
48:21look pakistan has been always known to be the fountainhead of terrorism so when you try and
48:31cultivate terrorists the possibility as to some or a large number of them would turn against you for
48:39their own benefits and gains is very strong and is bound to happen at some stage or the other so if
48:46trouble for pakistan is happening in balochistan or in khyber pakhtun or along the pakistan afghanistan
48:58border it is primarily those very terrorists who it has trained who are turning their back onto pakistan
49:05establishment military establishment and showing their fangs to the pakistan military as well as
49:12the administration of course there is also the fact that there is a very strong movement within
49:18balochistan for its independence from pakistan because they feel that they have been absolutely
49:25cheated as far as their resources are concerned they have been actually been taken for a ride by the
49:31dominant community within pakistan that is the punjabi elite and that is why there is literally a rebellion
49:38within within uh within balochistan to have an independent state of their own likewise the other
49:44provinces of pakistan whether it is sidh or khyber pakhtun also feel the domination of the punjabi elites
49:52in almost all uh departments and functions of the government so you know where pakistan a degree of
50:00resentment which is already existing as to how how pakistan can stay away from the acts of terrorism for
50:08these very people is a matter of time and gradually it is bound to show at some stage or the other
50:15in the next which brings me to our question number five has the ceasefire along the line of control
50:21held india in good stead is that helping pakistan better is it better that the pakistan army remains
50:28stretched not just along the durand line along the afpac border but also along the line of control
50:35so 770 kilometers of the lc 200 kilometers of the international border and 110 kilometers of the actual
50:41ground position line the pakistan army was able to shift considerable resources and take them along
50:47the afpac border uh virtually 2700 odd kilometers to fight there is it better if the pakistan army is
50:54stretched on all borders and internally jail deepak kapoor in your appreciation sir
51:04yes you are right the pakistan army is stretched to a large extent starting from baluchistan
51:13along the afghanistan pakistan
51:16border and now they have taken on themselves along the india pakistan ceasefire line as well
51:24well as far as international agreements go i'm sure the indian side would absolutely stick to the
51:32agreements which have been done in the past but should there be any violations all along the line of
51:37control i have no doubt the indian military the army navy and the air force will give them a befitting response
51:45notwithstanding that the condition and plight within the military establishment of pakistan is actually
51:52rather insecure and sensitive especially because there is an element especially among the younger ranks
51:58of the pakistan military who are more close to the imran side of politics than to the present dispensation
52:08and that is something which is a major cause of concern for the pakistan hierarchy because a a kind of a
52:17rebellion at the lower ranks can be a major source of problem for them in the future as well
52:23fair enough because the more pakistan army bleeds the less it will have the capacity to bleed india and indians it does
52:33not want peace with india and clearly not when it has a radical islamist as the chief of their army
52:40general asem munir general deepak kapoor and ambassador sina for joining me here on this india
52:46india today's special broadcast many thanks gentlemen
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