During a House Appropriations Committee hearing before the congressional recess, Rep. John Carter (R-TX) questioned military officials about the quality of life of service members.
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00:00Okay, thank you very much, Chief. And we'll now begin questions. These have a rough five-minute time period on them. We'll have some slack we can cut, but more talking to my folks up here than you. But we're trying to find out some stuff.
00:23I'm going to start off. September of 23, GAO report on unaccompanied housing was a wake-up call. It detailed barracks, dormitories, with unacceptable health, safety, and privacy concerns.
00:45That report included 31 recommendations that included both OSD and service-level recommendations.
00:56How far along are each of your services in terms of addressing the GAO re-recommendations?
01:09Sorry. Do you have an estimate of the cost and timeline needed to fully implement all GAO recommendations?
01:22Are there any policy changes that would help alleviate capacity shortages, for instance, when allowing single E-5s in the Army and Marines to move out of the barracks without help?
01:40The response to barrack challenges does not necessarily require a one-size-fits-all approach across each installation.
01:53What is the appropriate mix of barracks refurbishment versus new construction?
02:00And finally, what role should public-private partnerships and enhanced-use leases play?
02:12A lot of questions.
02:14Who wants to start?
02:18Well, Chairman, I'll jump on that one.
02:20There's a lot there, but it's a great question.
02:23You're giving us an opportunity to truly, truly let the committee know where you are.
02:27So we took the findings of the GAO report and were in conjunction with last year's NDAA, and really, we had to do some work to truly see ourselves holistically.
02:40So our conditions index, we've been able to scrub our entire inventory, and the Army has, obviously, a very large inventory of barracks.
02:51And so we can truly tell you now which ones have that below-70% index.
02:58We're trying to make sure we stretch every dollar to the furthest extent available.
03:04We know where we are with budgets.
03:06And so trying unique authorities, like the repair-to-replace that we're utilizing, actually, at Cavazos, to, I don't want to say get creative, but to truly figure out how to get our barracks in better condition, if not full Milcon replacement, because that's the hardest of all the solutions.
03:25That's an example, that's an example of one.
03:29To your E5 question, and I'll pass to my teammates, we already made this decision last year in Europe for E6s.
03:37And so E6s are authorized out of the barracks in Europe to increase barracks bed spaces.
03:42But there's issues with that.
03:44Down payments for housing off-base in Europe is incredibly high.
03:50And so we had to be careful we weren't putting our single E6s in a different financial predicament.
03:56And then lastly, young E5s that want to live in the barracks are great leaders in the barracks.
04:02It's good for them, and it's also great for the privates in the barracks.
04:06Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
04:07Mr. Chairman, also in the Navy, we did a comprehensive review of all of our installations and all the buildings that we're using for our barracks right now.
04:19And our condition index score, we're not good.
04:24About 15% are considered to be in good condition.
04:28About 60% were considered to be acceptable.
04:31And the remaining 25% are unacceptable condition.
04:35We need a lot of work to bring all of that back up to speed.
04:39And then beginning with, as I've said before this committee in the past, we're already operating in a deficit.
04:46We have considered for many years ships to be considered acceptable government quarters for our most junior enlisted sailors that are assigned on board a ship.
04:55To remove them off the ship and into a barracks room, we're going to need even more beds.
05:01We do have a comprehensive plan and a timeline on building the necessary unaccompanied housing.
05:09The fastest path to that will not be through military construction.
05:12The fastest path to that is an expansion of our PPV programs and the pilots that we're currently operating within San Diego and within the Norfolk region.
05:22As I said earlier in my opening testimony, my opening statement, we're going to increase that capacity about another 12,000 beds in those two fleet concentration areas.
05:34And that will probably solve the majority of our housing problems in those areas for sailors assigned to those ships.
05:39But we need to be able to expand on that in our other home ports, other fleet concentration areas, whether it's in the Pacific Northwest or in the great state of Florida, down there in Mayport, Florida.
05:50I'm looking for more ability to be able to expand on those barracks programs.
05:55And then, too, just as you said, for the E5s, we're looking at that across the border.
06:00Where could we move people out into town and afford them housing allowance, be that E4 and above or E4 over four years, wherever we think that is most appropriate?
06:14We've got a long road to go.
06:15There's still a lot of work to do.
06:16The biggest barrier to that is having a dependable budget that we know that we can be in construction with on time, as well as everything that we need for modernization and sustainment dollars to go into those buildings.
06:31I mean, as I said in my opening statement, since 2013, we've not had a dependable budget for the maintenance, modernization, and sustainment of those buildings.
06:40And those buildings are in really bad repair because of that.
06:44Thank you, sir.
06:44Thank you, sir.
06:47I'd like to say that, first off, I think I can say without hesitation, everyone on this diocese is an appropriator, and we don't like CRs.
06:59I know you don't like them, and we don't like them.
07:03We do all the work, and then the work doesn't get done.
07:06They just pass all the work we've done.
07:10It's one of those frustrating things you do because the best work is done by the appropriations committee.
07:16We're the only people who get things done, and then they throw us out like the trash.
07:24I'm sorry.
07:25I'm preaching now.
07:26I appreciate the opportunity.
07:32The GAA report really spawned the buildup of Barracks 2030.
07:37We were on our way there anyway as the Commandant came in with a very focused approach to human beings and getting in after the infrastructure.
07:45So the GAA report, although it focused on a few barracks, we said, no, we need to inspect every place that every Marine puts their head down to try to get some rest.
07:55And we did that, and the reports are not good.
07:59And so the Commandant put his money where his mouth is, and he got after the refurbishing of barracks.
08:05We do need help with, as Chief Flossie stated, the amount of buildings that I need to knock down, it's an expensive nature there to do.
08:16Sometimes more expensive than building the new.
08:19So while we can, we refurbish and get after what we're able to do quickly and delivering the impact to the Marines immediately, and they see that, and they want to stay because they see effort.
08:30They may not see a brand new building in their time in the service, but at least they see that, hey, at least my buddy is getting a decent barracks.
08:38For us, it's expensive to move sergeants out in town, absolutely, especially in places like, I don't know, California or overseas.
08:46So we're very careful with that.
08:48But I think what I'll say in addition to that, Chairman, is that for the Corps, the barracks is a place where we continue to develop the warrior ethos of a Marine.
09:01So it's critical that I have two Marines per room, and I know they hate me when I say that, but I need them to be two per room, and I need the NCO down the line to ensure that they're there to check on them, take care of them, that they're not alone.
09:15It's part of the transformation process.
09:20Thank you, Chairman.
09:22Your Air Force has invested more than a billion dollars over the FIDAP to facility sustainment, restauration, and modernization of our dorms specifically.
09:29And thankfully, we've started in a little bit better place with our dorms on average.
09:34We have a dorm master plan that has looked at all of our facilities across the entire enterprise, and we do not have any of our dorms in failing condition today across the Air Force.
09:43We're continuing to invest in the dorms.
09:46We do have airmen dorm leaders assigned, active duty NCOs assigned to each of our barracks around the Air Force.
09:54We also have had success with the MilCon appropriation on our dorms specifically.
10:02So we've got projects programmed in across the FIDAP that has several of our installations to the tune of several hundred million dollars.
10:10And what we're trying to do, much like my marine counterpart here, is we're trying to balance excess infrastructure and locations where we have excess infrastructure that we need to get rid of so we can get it off our denominator and invest appropriately in the locations where we have capacity issues.
10:26So we look for your support there.
10:30We've done the analysis, and while it is expensive to demolish, we know it's about a 10-to-1 return on investment.
10:37So over time, it was a really good use of taxpayer dollars to get rid of excess infrastructure and consolidate and focus our resources on the infrastructure we really need to take care of our airmen, especially at that early stage in their careers.
10:50No huge concerns there, sir, on dorms for the Air Force, but we're continuing to focus and invest to make sure it stays that way.
11:00Well, I like the fact you're looking at things that we can demolish so we don't have to take care of them.
11:09We'll visit more about that.
11:11Sounds good.
11:12Thank you, sir.
11:13Chief?
11:14Mr. Chairman, thank you so much.
11:15You know, a much smaller footprint than the Army and the other services on the Space Force side with the dormitories on Space Force installations.
11:23But when we looked at all the dormitories and did the condition, like Chief Flossie said, across the Department of the Air Force, we don't have any dorms and failing conditions.
11:30In fact, the dormitories and Space Force installations are 81%, which are acceptable condition, which are actually pretty good when you think about it.
11:38But the thing for us is consistent funding that allows us to maintain where we are and also to gain traction.
11:45Chief Flossie mentioned the dormitory master plan.
11:48I believe it was in early 22 when the department issued the department master plan.
11:52It was estimated about $280 million for Space Force dormitories to be risen to the 85 or above level on the building condition index.
12:01But continuous resolutions and our inability to do the planning and the funding to keep those contracts on target on time is always a challenge.
12:10We don't want to lose any momentum that we have with the conditions of the dormitories where our young men and women are living today.
12:16Moving forward, as I said in my opening statement, in order for the service to grow and develop, to be able to execute space superiority for the nation, we're going to have to grow in end strength, which is going to meet an increase in our junior enlisted individuals who will be living in the dorms.
12:28Right now, E-1 through E-4 within the Department of the Air Force.
12:31And we're going to look at lessons learned from our counterparts across the other services.
12:35Is it traditional MILCON?
12:36Is it a combination of partnerships downtown?
12:39How do we get after that to make sure that we can meet the demand of the nation, but also provide quality housing for our most junior, most vulnerable men and women who join the service?