At a House Judiciary Committee hearing prior to the Congressional recess, Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD) called out President Trump for firing all Democratic members of the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board.
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00:00the ranking member of the entire committee, Mr. Reskin.
00:02Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:04A lot of people were willing to give 702 a chance
00:07because of the various exceptions and amendments
00:10that were added to try to protect
00:13and insulate constitutional values.
00:15But, and specifically there,
00:18the Fourth Amendment requirement of a search warrant.
00:23But what's happened in the meantime has taught me anyway
00:25that we should never condition respect
00:28for constitutional values
00:30on an expectation of the goodwill of political actors
00:35in the executive branch of government.
00:37Mr. Hamadanchi, a week after he took office,
00:40President Trump fired all the Democrats
00:43on the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board,
00:45which we had created,
00:47leaving it without the quorum necessary to do business.
00:50Can you tell us what the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board does
00:54or what it's supposed to do
00:55and why it is a basic defeat of the legislative design
01:00that it's no longer functioning?
01:02Yeah, so the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board
01:05is designed to report on the privacy and civil liberty implications
01:10of the surveillance and counterterrorism programs
01:12of the federal government.
01:15And these members that have been fired,
01:18they actually had demonstrated independence
01:19from the Biden administration
01:21in putting out a report on 702
01:23that the Biden administration very much disagreed with.
01:27And it's not a good thing for the president
01:30to be able to fire these independent board members
01:33who are meant to provide independent oversight
01:35because it chills their ability to provide that oversight
01:38if you think the president can fire you
01:40if you say something he doesn't like.
01:41And that is why Congress actually removed from statute
01:45language that said the president could fire these board members.
01:48And that's not a partisan thing, as you just pointed out.
01:53The Framers of the Constitution expected anybody who got in as president
01:57to push the boundaries of his or her own power
02:01to the detriment of the other branches,
02:05but essentially to the detriment of the citizens, right?
02:08And so that's something we saw in the Biden administration,
02:12as you pointed out, something that we're seeing right now
02:14with huge red flags in the Trump administration.
02:18And so we've got to write laws that insulate constitutional values
02:22against anybody who gets in to the executive branch.
02:29Does this board issue reports and recommendations?
02:33Yes. When they have a quorum, they regularly issue reports.
02:36Last year they did a report on 702.
02:38They recently, before the firings, did a report on watchlisting programs.
02:43And they regularly would issue reports when they're able,
02:47when they have a quorum.
02:48When they haven't had a quorum, the PCOP has been much less effective.
02:52All right, so there's no quorum.
02:54There are no reports.
02:55There are no recommendations.
02:56Congress is not getting the information.
02:58We need to determine whether or not in this difficult terrain,
03:03constitutional values are being protected against government overreach.
03:08So I take it you agree with me that it was bad for civil liberties
03:13and constitutional rights that the president fired the Democrats on the board.
03:18Yes, I do.
03:19And Mr. Chair, do you agree with that?
03:20We would like to see P-Club reconstituted as quickly as possible.
03:24Okay.
03:25Mr. Kiko, same question to you.
03:27The same.
03:28We would like to have it reconstituted as with the same kind of people that were there.
03:32And Mr. Ternoski?
03:34Similar.
03:34Yeah.
03:35Similar to them, yes.
03:36We would like to see P-Club reinstituted with full membership.
03:39Okay.
03:40Mr. Chair, I want to ask about the reforms that Congress did make to Section 702 last year
03:45when we reauthorized FISA.
03:47The bill mandated the FBI's National Security Division report to Congress the number of U.S.
03:55persons, so-called backdoor searches conducted each month.
03:59That is, as Chairman Jordan explained it, the data is mopped up from all of the surveillance
04:08of foreign persons.
04:10But then, since the theory is we're in lawful possession of the data, backdoor searches
04:15can exist for Americans.
04:18Why is it important for us to know the number of backdoor searches that the FBI is conducting
04:24on a monthly basis?
04:25Well, for one thing, so that you can know the extent of the issue, you can, with the
04:31number, you can understand better the risk to Americans' privacy of the whole 702 system.
04:37And I think it also enables you to evaluate claims that are made by the IC about the effect
04:44of additional reforms.
04:46I don't know how you can act and respond to their arguments without knowing exactly how
04:51many people…
04:51What was the FBI sending us before the new reporting requirements were put in?
04:57My understanding is that it was pretty spotty.
05:00And the additional reporting is going to require more staff and more support.
05:05And I had previously learned from the National Security Division that they wanted 14 more people
05:10in order to comply with Congress' requirements.
05:12Not only have they frozen hiring, they removed the person who was responsible for managing all
05:17of the compliance and audits.
05:19So what does that mean?
05:20The gentleman's time has expired.
05:21Yeah, if I could just finish this sentence.
05:22Well, what does that mean for the new statutory language that we put in?
05:27Well, we would certainly support staffing that very important function at NSD.
05:33Chair, without objection, Mr. Klein will be permitted to participate in today's hearing
05:37for the purpose of questioning the witness.
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