Patrick is joined by former FBI agent turned paranormal investigator Ben Hansen.
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00:00What's up, Edders? Patrick here with Vetted. I have a very special surprise for you today.
00:05My guest is Ben Hanson.
00:09Ben Hanson, born September 23, 1977 in Utah, is a former FBI special agent turned paranormal
00:17investigator and television host, best known for leading the sci-fi series Fact or Faked
00:23Paranormal Files from 2010 to 2012, and most currently, Discovery's UFO Witness.
00:31Growing up, Hanson was encouraged to explore diverse interests, earning certifications in
00:35fields like piloting, scuba diving, and falconry. He graduated with honors from the University of
00:41Utah with a degree in sociology, emphasizing abnormal psychology, and later earned an
00:47Executive Master's in Emergency and Disaster Management from Georgetown University.
00:52His career began in law enforcement, working as an FBI agent for over six years before
00:58transitioning to television. Hanson has since appeared on many shows investigating UFOs, ghosts,
01:05and other mysteries. Hanson continues to lecture and appear at conferences worldwide,
01:10driven by a lifelong fascination with the unknown, inspired by shows like The X-Files.
01:22All right, veterans, and before we start this interview, please hit that like button for me.
01:26That really helps out the videos. And of course, if you're not already subscribed,
01:29hit that subscribe button. I put out new videos every day about the UFO phenomena. Let's go, y'all.
01:35All right, veterans, look who I have in the house. You're not going to believe it. Mr. Ben Hanson. Do you
01:40prefer Mr. Ben Hanson or just Ben? Always, always Mr. Especially the kids. I have to call me Sir,
01:47Mr. Argent. I prefer Master of the Universe. My wife still hasn't caught on yet, but she will.
01:56That's right. She's almost there. That's a good one. Yeah.
01:59You're like, it's another, your majesty. That's a good one.
02:06Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, I noticed on your bio, something that caught me was that you're
02:12a licensed falconer. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah.
02:16No way, dude. I used to work at Medieval Times in my early 20s, and they had a falconer there,
02:23and they would fly the falcon in the show. No way.
02:25And I used to, you know, not hang out with the falcon. That sounded weird. But he would always
02:30be in these, like, hallways we had with the falcon on his arm with a little helmet on to
02:36cover the eyes, right? And he's in, like, medieval garb, like, holding the falconer. And to be
02:43honest, he was a little strange guy. I think he lived with, like, 100 falcons or something and
02:48birds. Is that sort of your lifestyle too? That's not unusual. It's not unusual because, like,
02:52at my age, it was a really nerdy thing. Like, I was into all sorts of nerdy things as kids,
02:57UFOs included. It was like, yeah. So when my friend's like, you have a falcon, that's weird,
03:02you know? But yeah, you get a federal license, a state license, you trap the bird. My uncle was,
03:09I was the apprentice to my uncle. So you have to have somebody, you know, teaching. It's like the
03:15medieval times. It's like, yeah, you know, it was, it was fun, but I don't have time anymore to do it.
03:21But man, there's nothing like having a bird and going out and experiencing, like, what the bird
03:27naturally does, you know? And if you, if you were in, ran out of food, like, say, we had an earthquake
03:32here in California just the other day. Let's say we have our big earthquake and there's no more food.
03:38It's devastating. I just take my bird out. It's like, go find me a seagull or a rabbit.
03:43That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. I'm, I'm dying. If that happens, like I'm dead,
03:51anyone relying on me is dead or dead. I don't know what to do. Yeah, man. I'm, I'm looking
03:56through your bio. I'm just like, holy cow, dude, you have so, you've done so much. You're so
04:01cultured, I would say in so many different things, which is crazy. I don't know how you find the time.
04:07Spread out broadly, you know, like I, I kind of have an addiction for certification. So if someone's
04:14like, Hey, do you want to get licensed or certified in this? Oh yeah, let's do it. And
04:18I last count, I was over a hundred different certifications. So it's, wow, it's kind of
04:24excessive. Um, but I also like teaching and instructing and different things, you know,
04:30so whether it's scuba diving or, um, you know, uh, EMT stuff, it keeps my skills sharp,
04:39you know? So whether it's applicable and what I do in the day jobs, who knows, but
04:43sure. Yeah. How would you describe your day job? Like if you meet somebody, you know,
04:49on a plane or something, you, you, they don't know who you are. Right. And Hey, what's your
04:53name? I'm bad. Oh, what do you do for a living? What do you say?
04:56Well, it depends if I want to be left alone. Yeah. If I'm on the flight, I'm just like,
05:01Oh, I'm a traffic manager for a city. You know, I, I'm a Falconer who sets up the traffic light
05:07timings and whatever. Yeah.
05:08something boring. So they don't ask you anymore. Exactly. Well, yeah. Then you're like, Oh,
05:15that's fascinating. You'll find those people. They're like, that's what I would say. If you
05:19told me that, Oh, what you do the light, like that's kind of interesting. Now I got to make
05:23it up. Right. Yeah. No, no, no. I have, I have multiple, uh, my, most of my day job stuff
05:30is I'm, uh, insecurity and, uh, consulting. Um, I've, I'm teaching active violence, you know,
05:38like active shooter and tacker classes to different organizations. Um, I, I also teach
05:44firearms classes, you know, for different sheriffs and stuff. And so it's kind of all that stuff
05:50going on and the TV, when it comes along, I call it kind of my side hobby. I just put
05:54it on the back burner and, um, it's really hard to sell TV shows right now though. It's, um,
05:59you know, the networks are kind of dying and the streamers are so flooded now with people
06:05trying to sell shows to them. So it's massive budget cuts, but we do have a couple of really
06:10cool things in development, you know? So, um, the UFO topic is hot though. I mean, that's
06:15the thing. It's like, everyone wants a UFO show and they love the ideas. And then by the
06:21time you get green lit, it usually gets watered down to the same type of show that everyone's
06:28been doing. Right. It's kind of like, it's hard to get something new and creative on because
06:35nobody wants to take risks. Um, you know, and there's so much more than the same old
06:40stories that people are telling. Um, there's, there's a lot of room for that, but you got
06:46to put on your entertainment hat with the producer versus as a researcher. And like, look,
06:52I find this, I find a straight up documentary, extremely interesting. Um, but you know, if
07:00you're going to sell it to a major network, they need to throw in a lot of, you know,
07:04entertainment character, you know, with it too. I don't care if the guy's super boring,
07:07if he's telling a compelling story, who cares? You're in it's that sort of thing. So it's a
07:12back and forth. Sure. I mean, if you had unlimited budget that, you know, blank check, what kind
07:18of show would you make? Well, um, I think there's, there's a big need for getting into
07:25the nuts and bolts that people really understand. I like a lot of the documentaries coming out
07:30that, you know, for, for people like you and I, who are the big nerds and we're like, always
07:35into this every day. We, we know the history we know, um, you know, where we've come from,
07:42where we're, well, we don't know where we're going really, but yeah, for people who are just
07:46initiated into this, you get a lot of these documentaries that will take you back to blue
07:51book. They'll take you back to, um, the different hearings and lay it all out for you. I like
07:59that, but I think there's enough of that out there for people, um, you know, to get caught
08:06up to speed. So what I would do is take new cases, um, unknown cases, maybe go back into
08:14blue book and find things that people didn't know. Cause one of the problems is you get the media
08:17that's like, Oh, this is the first time we're hearing about, um, let's say spherical UFOs,
08:25you know, or plasmoids. I'm like, well, no, not really, you know, and educating people in an
08:32entertaining way, but going back and saying, these are historic cases that not many people have heard
08:37about, you know, and we're seeing history kind of repeat itself. So I think a good show would be
08:42awesome about that. Um, I also think we need more, more documentaries where people are spending a lot
08:49of time in a hotspot area. So, um, I hesitate saying this because I don't, don't want to sound
08:58like I was the creator of the show. The Skinwalker Ranch thing had been pitched a few times. I pitched
09:05it three times and it was actually the, the producers who ended up selling it had contacted
09:12me and they, um, they had never heard of Skinwalker Ranch. So I gave them some hotspot areas and I was
09:19like, but you're not going to get into this place. Cause the, the current owner doesn't want to be
09:22known. That's before. Okay. Yeah. That's what I was going to ask. Yeah. Cause I didn't know Brandon
09:27and, and so their due diligence, you know, kudos to them. They were tenacious. They went and they found
09:35him, uh, they didn't contact me afterwards to let me know that it was going forward, which is sad,
09:41but, uh, that show that impetus for that angle of it. Nap and Corbell had already done their
09:50documentary, you know, and, and Nap was really nice with me. And he's like, but he knew the owner
09:56and he's like, he doesn't want to be known. And so I was like a dead end. Anyways, um, huge success.
10:03And I'm happy for Brandon and Travis and everybody there because of all the shows, excuse me, that,
10:09um, I think you could have on TV that maintain the integrity. That's one of them. And, and, and from
10:17the beginning, before it was even pitched, I know the type of contract Fugel had with history and you
10:23just don't get those types of contracts, right? That nothing would be faked that he would have kind
10:28of final say of what goes into it. You don't get those contracts. Wow. And, um, uh, when it,
10:36it started up, then it's what you see is what you get. You know, there's some personality
10:41embellishers maybe on any show, but I would like to see more of that because you can't really,
10:49I think, start to investigate and show people what investigation looks like without doing a long
10:54term, right? We have several of these ranches locations that I would like to get into and
10:59say, let's just film a whole season here. We're just constrained by budgets, you know? So like you
11:05said, if someone gave me a blank check, just go do this and let's spend a month day to day.
11:12Let's document everything that's happening. Um, when you do it with a network though, you've got
11:18unions. It's like the crew has to end, you know, at 10 hours or they go into double time or you got
11:25to take lunch breaks. I've had incredible things happen during a lunch break while filming. And
11:32they're like, sorry, we'll have to pick up, you know, when we come back from lunch, I'm like,
11:35it's happening right now. Right? Yeah. This is the story. And it's just like, there's constraints
11:41with TV. Um, so I envy people like, um, James, you know, um, who are able to make a documentary.
11:52It's super hard because those things can go on for years where you're trying to get your funding
11:58and then you don't get a paycheck. You don't know how it's going to end, you know, but you,
12:05you finally produce something and then you can run into snags and get, you know, all this controversy
12:11about why do you use this witness or that? And it's like, yeah, there's so much dedication to
12:15that type of filming, but you have pretty much complete control. Yeah. So anyway, that's a good
12:23point. No, that's exactly what I think people want to hear is just this sort of how this works or
12:29because I think, you know, as they might call it UFO attainment. I think that's the term that I hear a
12:35lot in, in, in Twitter and even in my own discord, um, you know, why is it that way? And why can't
12:42it be different? And you've kind of laid out some, honestly, just logistical reasons, right? There's
12:48a, there's no big conspiracy behind it. It's not like they didn't cover that at lunch because the
12:53government was hiding that, you know, it's like, it's just, it's just, we're talking about unions and,
12:59and, and that's all it is. And yeah. How, how do people get around that? Maybe that's why
13:03people have turned to YouTube a lot because those constraints aren't there. I have none
13:07of those constraints, you know, but I'm not out, but I'm not out in the field either. Right. Um,
13:12that, that does cost money and resources. Cause I get that a lot. Well, why don't you go visit
13:16this place? Visit that, but who's paying for that? I can't. Yeah. Yeah. I can't do that. I can't just
13:22fly out wherever. Where, where do you think some of these, I mean, maybe you don't want to reveal
13:26because maybe you would want to plan something down the line, but if you could like, what are some of
13:30these other hotspots that aren't Skinwalker that are around that you would like to film in? Um, I,
13:36I could, you know, touch on at least one of them because we filmed there, um, our second season of
13:42UFO witness, we were the first ones to get in there since Jacques Vallée basically had visited. And I
13:48think they did, uh, want to say that Bill Burns had or filmed or was going to air an episode at,
13:58uh, what's known as Marley Woods. So Ted Phillips, who's a protege, you know, to Jalen Hynek,
14:05um, specialized in trace forensics. And, uh, Hynek is like, why don't you focus on this? Because
14:12there's 3000 different documented landing cases, and a lot of them have trace evidence. So Ted Phillips,
14:20worked with Hynek a lot and went on some really famous cases. And he settled upon this place in
14:29Missouri, which, um, he named Marley Woods. That's not the name of it, but he wanted to maintain the
14:37confidentiality of the ranchers there. And, um, so I remember I was at a MUFON meeting here locally in
14:45California when I saw Ted come and speak, I was like, holy crap. Cause I knew about Skinwalker Ranch,
14:52but the parallels of what was happening at, at, uh, Marley Woods, I believe it was Jacques Vallée
14:59when he visited, he said, there's more activity here at Marley than there is at Skin and Skinwalker.
15:04And the trick though, is there's, there's basically two main sites owned by different ranchers where
15:13stuff was happening. And when we approached them, you know, through our contacts, um,
15:20the first rancher was willing to talk with us. We flew out there and tried to speak with him. And
15:25then he didn't want anything to do with it. The second rancher, really great guy. He agreed.
15:30And then he passed away, um, not too long after the show aired. So getting back in with a family
15:38who's, you know, mourning his loss and they just had a massive fire. Um, or sorry, not fire tornado,
15:45the tornadoes that went through there, it tore down. I think that his children's homes and one of the
15:52old ranch houses. And so they're going through so much, like we just don't want to pressure them,
15:57but a full on, you know, stay there, live there documentaries have been proposed. Um,
16:06what I'd like to do is set up a location like there and maybe even a second team at, in the Uuna
16:13basin, you know, in Utah and compare notes. So we've got like one, uh, team, you know, like having
16:21stuff happening and not saying that there's a coincidal synchronicity at the same time, but
16:28trying the same sort of techniques in both locations, because it's such similar phenomenon.
16:34Uh, there's another place we introduced, um, in another, uh, episode called Clearwater Ranch.
16:42It was a clear view or clear water in, in Colorado. Right. And, and Katie up there, um, in the Denver
16:50area that was, was moved with MUFON. She grew up on this ranch and a lot of really weird stuff
16:57happening there. And access was kind of a problem we had there too. So beyond Skinwalker, the show
17:02visited, I think that location and, uh, we're trying, they were trying to get Marley Woods as well,
17:09but it's just, uh, we'll see, you know, I, I've always keep that on the back burner and every
17:16now and then you'll hear of, of stuff happening in, in other countries. Oh, sure. Um, I'm looking
17:22at one in Costa Rica right now. I'd really like to get into, you know, and that's like, hold on.
17:28It's like Jurassic park. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. What makes you think like, why is there a hotspot?
17:38Does it make sense? Like why a particular place would have so much activity versus another place
17:44on planet earth? Like why would that matter to this phenomenon? I mean, that's a big question. A lot
17:49of people are trying to draw the parallels and, and I think a couple things, um, that kind of stick
17:56out. Um, there, there, a lot of them have to do with geology. You know, I think like David
18:04Pilates had pointed out some stuff with the missing people in the granite. So whether it's
18:09granite, you know, an Estes park, Colorado, or it's, um, you know, other geology that, that might
18:17have some sort of a energy containing ability or something. Um, a lot of it also happens
18:25to be around native American lands and whether they chose that land that was sacred to them
18:30because of the properties or vice versa, who knows. But, um, I, I really, I think if you
18:39could figure that out, I'm not one to say, to use the word portals or vortexes, you know,
18:46much I'm open to the idea though, that perhaps there's places like this exist where there's
18:53this kind of weird, natural or manipulation of energy where things can kind of come in
18:58and through. And so that would maybe explain why it's not just aerial phenomena. You get,
19:04you know, cryptids, poltergeist activity, like the parapalooza of whatever, because in each of
19:11these locations, it does, I can't name you one of those locations where only one type of phenomenon
19:16occurs. It's just kind of everything all at once. So it sounds like stranger things, right?
19:23It's kind of like, you open up the portal and it all starts coming out. It's like, but it's weird.
19:29Yeah. I mean, I get it. It's, it's, that's, what's interesting. And I always just wonder why
19:34those places is it, you know, something is buried deep within and that's, what's sort of emitting
19:41some sort of energy or some, or some sort of portal of rip in a dimension. I don't know. You know,
19:46it's a lot to wrap your head around sometimes in this, um, you know, in this field. Um, I heard you
19:54talking about on a recent News Nation interview you did, um, God, what's the best way to describe it?
20:02Okay. I mean, I guess I'll just say it was like, um, a city of lights underneath the ocean or
20:06something. What am I, you know what I'm talking about? What, what the most recent one, um, where,
20:13so they were, they were, we were reviewing, uh, Corbell and Naps recent video release of that
20:19Tic Tac, right. That was on the USS Jackson. Yeah. Jackson. Right. Yeah. So again, like we kind of
20:26have to help the media realize these connections. And what I was trying to say is Southern California,
20:33for those of us who've been looking at this is well known for, uh, USOs and activity off of Catalina,
20:41San Clemente Island, down to Ensenada. Um, that whole corridor has a deep channel
20:48that runs both in the front side of Catalina Island, between that and the mainland and the
20:53backside. So we've been looking at this a lot. We, we did, um, an episode with, um, well,
21:01I was behind the scenes and Demi Lovato did her TV show with Peacock, went diving and did some stuff
21:09there. And then I did it for UFO witness. Um, Tim Gallaudet, Admiral, Admiral Tim Gallaudet was
21:15looking at anomaly. He felt that he had found, we were trying to fund an expedition, um, to go there.
21:22And what I really admire about him, he's, he's part of a team that I organized is that, um, in further
21:28looking at that and talking to others of his colleagues, he's like, there might be a natural
21:32explanation for this is an underwater landslide. So let's not spend 150 grand or more to go check
21:40this thing out. Let's find something else because we get these reports though. We get these reports.
21:45And in one, uh, UFO witness, we talked to a, a boat captain who was out there and literally,
21:52so he's out there, um, can't remember he's fishing or, or just at night, you know, kind of cruising
21:59towards the Island. And suddenly around his boat, a couple hundred yards around, it lights up. I mean,
22:05like bright daylight, white light under his boat. And he's like, holy crap. Like, this is like
22:12Leviathan. Something's going to come up and just take me down. And he's looking around
22:18and then the light just shuts off. It's not like we get these algae blooms, you know, and, and things
22:25that, um, the, the, the fossil. Yeah. Yeah. Right. You can't just turn that on and turn it off.
22:34Sure. So a little bit later when I was breaking these stories of what I was calling the racetrack
22:40UAPs, which we know that in the majority of those now are in new orbit of star links, but at the time
22:47these pilots were reporting them and we were in touch with a ATC controller and, you know, he told us,
22:54look, man, just a little, a few months ago or the other day we had jets scrambled out to the coast
23:03and pilots were reporting seeing a light, the size of a city, you know, that was under the water again,
23:10not phosphorescent, but it's just lit up completely like a small town. And, and so they, they scrambled
23:17apparently, um, some jets out there to check it out. And, you know, I haven't found official
23:24documentation of that, but we get these stories of lights under the water, uh, the plasmoids
23:33getting a lot of these orange orbish lights that are coming out of the water. That was another
23:38episode we helped with on, um, I think they called it alien encounters or something on discovery
23:44with Chrissy Newton in them and pretty good video because they do flare drops out there.
23:50Right. But when you look at the particular areas, you can also track boats, like you do planes,
23:57um, that are using their form of like ADSB and figuring out where they would be having exercises.
24:04We confirmed they weren't having exercises there. It doesn't look like flares, you know,
24:09and these things are hovering for several minutes, changing position, coming out of the water. It,
24:14it all, there's too much circumstantial evidence to say that this is all prosaic. Things are coming
24:22out of the water. You got the tic tacs now, which is what we're saying about that video where
24:27they seem to be pretty prevalent. Um, everything from the Nimitz, the Jackson to, uh, things have been
24:34captured on, on thermal even. Sure. Yeah. That's, um, that's fascinating. I can't get my mind around
24:43a city of light, like underneath, uh, what could there's that doesn't seem to be a,
24:48a straightaway prosaic explanation for that. Um, but again, you know, I'm not an expert in
24:53underwater lights or anything. And, and what's hard too, is because
24:57you got to separate a lot of, I don't like to just be a storyteller, right? I can tell you what
25:06other people said they've seen. And I can tell you, this person seems really credible. Of course,
25:11I want physical evidence. I want radar. I want, I want at least the radio chatter, you know, to hear
25:17what the pilots are reporting. Yeah. We don't often get that. And then you get people who could just make
25:24any claim, right? So for example, the Malibu base, and I, on one hand, I'm open to the idea. There
25:32might be some sort of base, but there are people absolutely, you know, convinced that off of Malibu,
25:38Google earth is showing this underwater base. And I'm like, no, I, I had that story of the Huffington
25:44post years ago. And we talked to oceanographers and everything. That is a natural formation that is
25:49known. It's only, gosh, I think it was only a couple hundred, it might be over a thousand feet
25:56down, but you could easily, if you want to spend the money and go put a underwater submersible,
26:02go check that out. It's not a base, but that doesn't mean there may not, that there could be
26:10bases somewhere. So if you don't want to be mocked at by science, okay, fine. Then you don't even talk
26:18about that, but there is circumstantial evidence and we do have physical proof that something has
26:24been coming out of the water. You can take a look at videos and you can take people's eyewitness
26:29accounts and there's plenty of them. Something is coming out of the water. It's transmedium.
26:34It's coming up. It's able to fly. It's going back down into there. If, if you want to believe
26:40that's all our technology, then make the case for it. Sure. Right. So what a better place to put it,
26:47you know, and that's where we're at right now. I, I'm not going to tell you they're living there.
26:53There's a base. I'm not going to tell you it's extraterrestrial. I have no idea,
26:57but something is underwater. So when I give these lectures, um, we go back in time and we look at the
27:04government, um, project rock site actually, uh, did explore the possibility of making an underwater base.
27:13They looked at Catalina and some other islands where they would take a submarine
27:17and actually park it inside the, the island under the water. And there's blueprints for it,
27:23you know, what they were going to do at the site. And, and the idea is what we'll take the world's
27:27elite politicians and everything. And in case of a nuclear attack, they're going to be safe
27:33because we'll live underwater until it's time to come out. Right. So government's been looking at it.
27:40It's not a new concept, but is it ours or somebody else's?
27:45I mean, that's always the question. You know, it's this fine line of like,
27:49you want to push the boundaries of what's accepted, but at the same time, there are certain things you
27:54have to accept to move on. You've got to separate the bullshit from legitimate stuff. And that can be
28:00hard because you don't want to be dismissive, but at the same time, you don't want to accept everything.
28:05And when people hear a prosaic explanation for a UFO event or encounter, I mean, I've heard it.
28:12I hear it all the time in my discord and the community. Well, no, but it's this, they're saying
28:17that because of the, it's like, no, nothing can ever be accepted as reality, but we want, but we
28:23want reality. So like, what, where is that balance? Right. It's like, I mean, if it's a, if it walks
28:29like a duck and talks like a duck, why can't we just say it's a duck and move on to more compelling
28:33cases and more compelling things that can't be explained. And, and I get it. That's the struggle.
28:38You don't want to take the straight answer sometimes, but sometimes the straight answer is
28:43the right answer. And I don't know, I guess that's where it's up to each person's, you know,
28:49own accord to just decide what they're going to invest their time and effort and resources into.
28:54And, you know, anybody going out and like yourself and other people who boots on the ground, they get
29:00out there, they're doing stuff. They're looking into things. I, I've sort of trust, well, whatever
29:05they want to look into, right. They're clearly not just going to waste waste resources on something
29:10just like that story you told about Tim Gallaudet and potentially this landslide. Right.
29:14I kind of respect that in some ways, like, okay, I get it. Maybe let's go somewhere where
29:19some of that isn't talked about, right. Like the Marley woods that you're talking about in,
29:24in, in St. Louis and things. And yeah, I guess it's just kind of trying to narrow it down to some of the
29:29more compelling things. If there's so much great data. Okay, great. Well then let's narrow it down to some
29:33of the best and go focus on that, you know, so we have to be very selective. Yeah. And I feel bad
29:41because so I have a website UFO witness dot TV and I get, you know, sometimes dozens of people sending
29:49me stuff every week, especially when, you know, rerun happens of our TV show and they want to send us
29:55things. And like, I don't have time to respond to most people. I've got a small team of people that can
30:00do that. And, um, I try to help when I can, you know, the other day I told somebody, you know,
30:06they were really impressed by something they saw. And I was like, well, what you were looking at was
30:10the latest Starlink launch. Here's what it launched. This is what it does, what it looks like. You know,
30:16when I have time to do that, but people get pissed that person did not, but it makes me feel like I
30:24have this thankless job. Like I'm not getting paid to look into this for you. I'm taking my time
30:30and you ask for my honest opinion. And then you turn around and tell me that I don't know what I'm
30:35talking about. And you know, that I'm a shill for the government. I'm like, well, there, where's my
30:40second paycheck? You know, I would love that. Right. And, you know, it's like, it takes a real
30:49person with integrity, such as Admiral Gallaudet or many of the people that I work with to admit when
30:57our first impressions were not correct. And to do a course correction and to, and for other people
31:04to realize investigation is not a one and done, you know, here's what it is. And a hundred percent
31:12true. And you know who I'm talking about, like a hundred percent, this is what it is. You know,
31:16it's like, that's not science. Yeah. Right. If, if I give a probability, I'll say, look,
31:23I've seen this a lot. The likelihood is 99%, 98%. I will leave that small little percentage. If you
31:31want to argue that the extraterrestrials are creating drones that look like our drones and
31:38that have the same inclusion lights and fly in the same way and do everything. And then it's not a drone.
31:43Okay. You can have that argument. So let's leave you the 2% that that's possible. Right. Because I
31:50don't know for certain, I didn't capture that craft. I didn't examine it, but that's what science is.
31:58Right. And so what I try to do is first of all, not care. I'm completely off of social media almost now
32:06because certain platforms are really just trolls. They got way too much time on their hands. And I
32:13don't publish my findings except for people who legitimately have an interest. Um, if news nation
32:21or somebody calls sure, we'll talk about what we did out here, but I may not share with you my end
32:27analysis because this can take months and people want an answer right now. Right. Put it up. Tell me what
32:34it is, you know, make a claim about it. And I'm like, no, because all I'm going to do is tell you
32:39what this person said. If they have video for it, here it is, have a discussion. If you're interested
32:47in what I think about it, if I have the time, it might take us nine months or more to come back with
32:53a formal report. Right. And that that's how science is done. Um, but people don't have the patience and
33:01you're right. They just, they want a shortcut answer. They've pretty much made up their mind.
33:07There's a lot of, of lack of scientific literacy. Yeah. You know, they, they don't care what the data
33:15or numbers say because they're always going to come back to you with either the hardcore skeptic,
33:21like, well, even that possibility is so minute, but that's what it is. Right. Or they're going to do
33:27the opposite and say, well, yeah, I don't care that it looks an ax and walks, flies like a drone.
33:33It's not a drone. Correct. Yeah. Both extremes, right? It's, it's, it's separating possibility
33:39versus probability. I mean, clearly, I mean, if we're being a little loose with the terminology
33:47or the idea, everything is possible as cliche as that sounds, but is that what's the probability of
33:54that thing? Right. So even though, you know, that drone could be, you know, an alien drone,
34:00what's the probability it looks like a drone, you buy it, what off Amazon or whatever it is, it's like,
34:07why focus on that when there's all these other things you could be, why not just sort of let
34:11that go? And if you were wrong, you were wrong, but it's not as compelling. I think there's far more
34:16stories that are way more compelling that include probably all the things you want to see an investigation.
34:22It's not just a photo or a video. And if that even exists is great. You've got other additional
34:28forms of data, eyewitness testimony, way more context around, you know, in a particular event
34:34or story. And those are the ones I think should be looked into more or, or hotspots or things like
34:40that. I'm with you on, on that. Why, why focus on that? But at the same time, if someone Joe Schmo on
34:46Twitter wants to waste his time tweeting, I mean, I'm with you. I don't, I wouldn't be on social
34:51media if I didn't have vetted. I'll be honest. Oh, I tell people all the time, if it wasn't for the TV
34:56shows and they, they want you to be there to promote stuff, I wouldn't be on there. Right.
35:01Yeah. Um, so you kind of have to get beyond caring about wanting to convince people. Right. I
35:08understand the passion. I totally understand the passion, but what you you're getting is people
35:14wanting you to think for them because they don't have the time resource or skill to go investigate
35:20it themselves. And so they want you to do it. And then they'll, they'll be the first to criticize
35:24you for it. Sure. You know? And it's like, I, I think there's, and it's been said ad nauseam,
35:30but there's way too much infighting, right? Like it can be done in a way that's supportive and not
35:37bashing or tearing people down. You know, my research is better. You don't know what you're
35:42talking about. Look, there really are no experts in this. At the end of the day, we're, we're all just
35:48guessing. Yeah. Right. So it's an educated guess and there can be better research done. Yes. But
35:57if we're ever going to move this beyond to where a lot of mainstream academia is going to accept it,
36:04you need to kind of play by their rules as well. Right. Yeah. Um, I think that's okay.
36:09You know? Yeah, it's tough, but I, I think, you know, I've always said, um,
36:13um, like the bubble for ufology is, you know, X big and, but if we want it to grow,
36:20cause you hear that a lot, we want the stigma removed. We want more people looking into this
36:24and not, if you want the bubble to grow, guess what's going to happen. People are going to have
36:29questions. People are going to be skeptical. People are, you can't just be fighting and putting people
36:34down and you're a government agent and you're working for that. That's not going to work. That's
36:39where, that's what keeps the stigma alive. Like you've, we've, you know, if I had a blank check
36:45for a UFO show, I know exactly what I would do. I would actually present both sides all the time.
36:52I would have people who would, who are skeptical of it and have people who believe in it more and
36:57present both sides. And I feel that doesn't get done enough, but I also understand maybe why it
37:03doesn't happen again, just resources logistically. But if I did have a blank check, that's how I would want to
37:09present things a little bit more. Cause I think that's, I think it's okay to say, you don't have
37:14to be as definitive with what, you know, you think it is, or like you said, a hundred percent this or a
37:20hundred percent. Why can't people just say, you know, based on the research I've done and whatever,
37:25I think it's, you know, more than likely this. And that's, that's a more reasonable explanation
37:33and people are more willing to accept it. What I've learned is people are okay with just the
37:37idea of it. You don't have to like go for the full cell and be like, it is this and that's what's
37:43going on and you don't need to solve them for them. Yeah. You don't have to that. It's hard
37:48to tell networks that it's one of the most frustrating things when you're dealing and
37:53selling or producing a show is that back in the day of the first show I did was factor fakes,
37:58you know, on sci-fi channel. And, um, that was hard for them to accept because we ended up settling
38:05on this sort of a myth busters, you know, let's test it thing where we looked at the hoaxer, um,
38:12possibility. We looked at the prosaics and when we started out, you know, it was probably like maybe
38:18a 50, 50, some of them we solved and some we didn't. And then in the later seasons, it maybe
38:24shifted a little more. We're figuring out more of them. And of course the network wants
38:28a balance. They want, we want a truly compelling one. You can't figure out.
38:33Well, same thing happened with, um, what was it? Uh, alien encounters think is what they were calling
38:40it. And, you know, we were kind of hired in the back as the researchers to kind of present this
38:46stuff. And I don't think the network was like, um, you know, ready for us to solve so many of these.
38:53So when they presented the case to some of the witnesses,
38:57it's a very personal thing for them. And they're like, look, I saw this,
39:01this object. I felt like I had a connection with it. You know, I'm, I'm sure that it was
39:06not something explainable. And then you turn around, I was like, you saw the international
39:10space station. I can tell you exactly where it flew over. That doesn't negate your personal
39:15connection and what it meant for you and the symbolism. Right. And it doesn't negate that some
39:20of these people have had legit unexplainable occurrences, but this particular one, you know,
39:26that you videoed on this day, we're 98% sure we can explain that one. Right. And so it's having
39:34the network though, except that it will say in the eyes of entertainment, I think it's just as
39:40compelling. I never set out to find hoaxers, but when you catch a hoaxer and you get like pissed that
39:46they did this, you know, it's like, look, you're, you're ruining legitimate research
39:51and, and getting a cultish like following because you claim that, you know, you were hiking in the
39:57woods and your dog was attacked by an alien. You beat it over the head with a club and then put it
40:02in your deep freezer. Like, look, I'll entertain the idea that maybe that's true. But when I find
40:07out you're lying, I'm going to call you out on it. Absolutely. You know, because it, it ruins legit
40:12research and puts us further back. So it's hard to make a show like that, but every now and then
40:20you get a network that realizes the ratings are actually pretty good when we don't solve
40:25everything or when not all of it is mysterious, you know, and, and that if, if I could sit down with
40:33every head developer and explain that to them and they'd have some trust in it, we'd have a lot better
40:39of TV, I think. Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah. And, and, you know, when you're burning a new path,
40:46it's the hardest part being the first one to do something. Right. But then they see it works
40:51and I get it. It's a business money needs to be made and I get it right at the end of the day. So
40:57like, what do you think of like what Skywatcher is trying to do?
41:01Yeah. So, um, I still have on my playlist, the last, I think the interview that Ross did with
41:09them. I haven't seen that last one, but I've kind of got the cliff notes version.
41:14Um, I admire, first of all, Barbara for coming out and it takes a lot of guts and, you know,
41:22somebody with those credentials and to come out and to say, you know, what they worked on,
41:27what they saw, um, to take the criticism. I don't think anyone can prepare you for that.
41:35Uh, and, and, and then to, to have the, the ability to get investors, you know, to set up an
41:42organization takes a lot of work. Right. So I'm really happy for them. And they've got people to
41:47be able to fund that. And based on their experience, like, Hey, look, we know this works
41:53in the, in the places we worked and, and some formula to call them down and to use technology.
41:58So I think we need to be open to that. Um, I mean, if I had any critique, I'd probably say,
42:07you know, film your own documentary and, and do your stuff. Maybe they are and release it
42:13when you're ready. If you, if you're trying, if you even care what people think,
42:18right. With, with all of the critiques and, and to just do your own thing now. Right. And not worry
42:24because, um, it, it's almost like some of these things can be killed before they start. Right.
42:30Sure. If you, you keep putting this out and then people are just going to come and jump on it and
42:34say, well, that's BS. And this is that we want to know everything is like, well, it's not for you to
42:39know everything right now. Yeah. Right. And so I don't know, we'll see, we'll see if the, if the business
42:44model works, um, we, we know that the government's not really in a position to fund these things at
42:50the moment. And it's beyond the scope of, of grants to do something like that officially.
42:58Sure. So we have to do it privately.
43:00Yeah. No, I'm open to anything there they can do, you know?
43:04Yeah. Right. Um, yeah. Um, I, I talked to Jake Barber on the phone the other day
43:08and he tentatively invited me out potentially this summer to go and, you know, witness some of this
43:19and even partake maybe in a, in a couple of different protocols or whatever they're calling
43:24it. Um, you know, to, to figure this out. Cause I am making my own documentary outside of vetted,
43:31taking the next year to travel around and try some of these protocols,
43:36CE five and telepathy and these two, you know, I want to get out there and test it for myself
43:41essentially, and then make a, make a documentary about my experience, um, doing it.
43:47And, you know, keep me in mind too, because we do have, um, you know, the scientists, the PhDs and
43:53people that I know he put out a call, you know, it's like, we'd like people to, um,
44:00verify scientifically this and, and to go out with us. And so like, um, I know one of my people
44:06had reached out and made that offer, you know, but, but I'm sure they got a slew of,
44:13of groups trying to do that, but we would love to as well, because there's some bold claims,
44:18bold claims there that, um, you know, it would really bolster if we have, if they have found
44:26a way to do this, I'm open to it. What, what muddies the waters is some of the C five events,
44:33you know, because I, I, I lead a lot of the sky watches for the events, like contact in the desert
44:37and stuff. And like, I can disagree with the other groups who come in and lead their protocols.
44:44And it just kind of remains silent and just be an observer. Um, I think a lot of them could use
44:50some education and because I sell night vision. Right. And it's like, it doesn't come with an
44:56instruction manual that tells you, you know, what a bat looks like in night vision or, or a flock of
45:03nocturnal birds flying in V formation. I had to learn that stuff on my own or a flaring satellite,
45:09you know, or, or when it goes into the terminus, you know, of the earth and it disappears behind
45:14the shadow and it suddenly goes out or it flares, you know, cause it's geostationary it's turning
45:19and it flares. I had to figure all of that out. Nobody from space X has made any announcement
45:27as to what, you know, their new, um, star links look like in polar orbit. Yeah. So it's hard because
45:37when you have that information, then people don't want to hear it or they, they take someone out on a
45:43three to $4,000 excursion and guarantee you're going to see a, a UFO, you know, you kind of have
45:50to wonder, look, everyone needs to make money and pay the bills. And I'm not saying there can't be a
45:55commercial aspect to this, but I'd prefer to focus on the people legitimately, some of them actually in
46:02the program. Right. So I, I, we have people on our team who have, or were aware of the programs,
46:12maybe some of what Barbara was aware of who have had success, you know, and they've, they've claimed
46:19success and I trust their personal testimony. So then the next step is get out there into the field.
46:25Let's get all the instrumentation set up. So I guess I can say this now, it's not, not a big secret, but
46:31we had, uh, uh, a case that we broke back in. Um, it was, uh, gosh, it was last, last year.
46:42When was it? The winter time, November ish. I want to say December ish. This is the police officer who
46:49had this plasmoid in Connecticut and he was driving along and all of a sudden his cars lit up from the
46:57inside just completely lit up bright. And he's like, what the crap? He thought maybe a poacher
47:02or someone was shining a light on him. And he's near this, this big body of water. So
47:07he looks to the side, he had to stop his car in the middle of the road and he looks backwards and
47:13okay, it's, it's coming from above and it's behind him and it's about 60, 70 feet up. And he sees this
47:20size of a mini Cooper. Okay. This plasmoid that is off whitish and then changes to amber, to red,
47:29to green. And it's, it's, it's like pulsating and there's very slight hum to it. His windows down
47:37looking at this thing and he's stunned. He finally comes to his senses and takes his, um, uh, take down
47:44light, his spotlight on the side and he flashes it. And this thing all of a sudden reacts and
47:51instantaneously like teleports across the whole lake. I mean, it was like, he couldn't even fall
47:58with his eyes. He said it was here and then it was over there and it's across the lake, takes out a
48:03cell phone and is able to record a couple minutes of the thing as it's sondering off very, very bright
48:10reflections off the water. Well, incredible story. Cause it comes from a police officer has nothing
48:16to gain from this. Of course. The diehard skeptics jump on the video alone, ignore everything he just
48:24told you. Sure. Uh, this thing was 30 feet from my face. So I can tell you, this was not a drone.
48:30I can tell you it was much bigger than that. It's not a helicopter. It's not a Chinese lantern. Okay.
48:36So let's, let's pretend we don't even hear his testimony. They want to jump only on the video
48:42and say, okay, well, a Chinese lantern or this or that. So we went out there. Um, we started
48:50conducting tests and we've done some with, um, sky lanterns, Chinese lanterns, drones with,
48:57with 10,000 lumen lights on them. We've already started a lot of that. And we found
49:02quite a few new witnesses, including other police officers. Um, so we're going back out.
49:08So my point being, um, towards the end of may, we're going to be out there again.
49:14Not sure if, if the news will be coming with us or not, but we, we have the big guns. We've got
49:21a lot of, uh, uh, research university affiliated scientists with us and organizations. I won't
49:27mention because I'm sure you're aware of them, but like they, some of them haven't decided yet if they
49:34want to be publicly known as affiliated with their university or something in this at the moment.
49:39And we're going to set up triangulations, right? We're looking for vantage points to be able to, um,
49:48maybe even camp out and get down in there to, to try and capture some of this on camera.
49:54And so the idea comes up, well, okay, let's try it without anything.
49:58But then if somebody has skills, someone believes they, they know a protocol that works.
50:05Would that cause something intelligent to respond to us? Would it show up then? I'm open to it.
50:12We got to kind of try everything.
50:14Yeah, no, absolutely. Are you kidding me? Of course. Um, there's nothing wrong with, um,
50:18people can do whatever they want with the results. So I say, go for anything, trying anything. Let's
50:25go for it. You, you, people can just make up their own minds, um, based on that. So, um, look,
50:31I know we're running out of time. So, um, I just want to say this was awesome. I really appreciate,
50:37you know, you coming on and chat with me. I know you don't do a lot of these interviews, so
50:41I really do appreciate you taking the time. I actually learned a lot,
50:44lot from you and the process and kind of how things go. And it was really cool. Um,
50:49what, what do you want to let people know you're doing or how to connect with you or where to catch
50:54you on? Uh, you know, well, first, thank you for inviting me. Um, yeah, I wish I had more time to,
51:01to do all of them that, you know, that I want to, but I really enjoy your program. I think you're
51:05doing a great job and, uh, I appreciate it. I would like to see, you know, more TV shows and stuff
51:12coming out, uh, anything that, that I'm a part of, I will eventually announce on my social medias.
51:17But, um, right now we're just kind of lining up for the summer, you know, different conferences.
51:23So I'll be at contact in the desert, which is like the last weekend of May and into June. Um,
51:31then I'm, I'm heading right out to SCU. Uh, Oh, nice. Yeah. To, to speak there with Dr. Bittner
51:38on my team about the Connecticut case. So I'll be out there. And, um, I believe Jay Stratton is
51:46headlining that one. Yeah. Um, and then actually before that, I'll be out in, oh no, later. I'm so
51:54confused later in, in earlier, I guess it'd be in May. I'll be out at Parasycon, um, which is in
52:02Mansfield, Ohio. And that's just a great fun event. You know, this is all paranormal and UFO stuff. And
52:08yeah, it'd be investigating and doing stuff there. So that's kind of my lineup for now. But, um,
52:13my website, Ben Hanson, it's h-a-n-s-c-n.com is where, you know, I put those things up and
52:20I encourage people, if you do have something compelling, you can't figure it out. Don't
52:25feel bad if I can't get back to you on it. Um, but I, I do look at the cases, you know, top priority.
52:33If, if you've got really good video, um, I don't care about your background, but
52:40you know, we, we, uh, with pilots and military, there's often stuff we can do to file FOIAs.
52:46If it's part of an official thing and get all the radar information. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah,
52:53you can send that to ufowitness.tv. Um, and there's a submission form there that we'll,
52:59we'll take a look and, and otherwise, uh, it's going to be a wild year, everybody
53:04to say the least. And, and I think the main problem is, is not a lack of, of news. There's
53:08going to be a lot of news. Yeah. The main problem is, do you have the patience and do you have the
53:16wherewithal to do your own research? Right. To kind of weed through what might be accurate, embellished,
53:26um, people's opinion, you know, versus fact, because it, it is important. This is going to
53:32be a very important topic pretty soon. Yeah. Yeah. Well said, man. No, I look forward to everything
53:37you're doing. I will be at contact in the desert too. So maybe we'll, we'll run into each other.
53:42Um, I'm going to try to go to this, uh, skywatcher thing, see what this is about. So, um, yeah, Ben,
53:49again, thank you, man, so much. I, I do appreciate you coming on, dude. This was, this was awesome.
53:54Awesome. Thanks Patrick.
54:21Yeah.