Sit back, pour yourself a drink and join GB News Political Editor Christopher Hope at his regular table in a Westminster pub where he will discuss the latest insider political intrigue and gossip with everyone from popstars to politicians.New episodes released every Friday.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Coming up on Chopper's Political Podcast.
00:03Now we have the woke craziness which is invading every area of our lives.
00:08We have to fight back.
00:19Welcome back to Chopper's Political Podcast.
00:22Wiping the best guest gossip, news and stories from our studio at GB News
00:27here in the heart of Westminster.
00:30It's been a week when the Labour government has started to bear its left-wing teeth
00:34by taking over the running of British Steel,
00:37a move which looks like the precursor towards a full-blown nationalisation of the Scunthorpe plant.
00:43The crisis there, and that led to MPs and peers being brought back here to Westminster
00:47to pass a law in a single day to give Labour the power to run the plant,
00:53has once again shone a light on the UK's relationship with China
00:57because the owners of British Steel are Chinese.
01:01And that comes as Liberal Democrat MP Weirah Hobhouse was banned from entering Hong Kong
01:06to see her newborn grandson,
01:08apparently because of comments she'd made in the past about China.
01:13She said that's a wake-up call for MPs and peers.
01:16So, this week we're talking about the UK's vexed relationship with China
01:20with Sir Ian Duncan-Smith, the co-chair in the UK of the Interparliamentary Alliance on China
01:27and a former Conservative leader.
01:29That comes very soon.
01:31Plus, as it's Easter weekend, I thought I'd look at why it seems to me that Easter,
01:36the most important time in a Christian calendar,
01:39is being slowly erased from modern, daily British life.
01:43That's with Andrew Rosendale later.
01:46But first, to British Steel and to China.
01:49This week, Trade Minister Duncan Tagzano was in China
01:52just as an MP was banned from entering Hong Kong
01:55for remarks she had made about China in the past, apparently.
01:59And that came as the government stepped in to run a Chinese steel plant in Scunthorpe.
02:05With me to discuss all this is a former Tory leader, Sir Ian Duncan-Smith,
02:09the co-chair in the UK of the Interparliamentary Alliance on China.
02:14Ian Duncan-Smith, welcome to Chopper's political podcast.
02:17Great to have you on and breaking into your Easter break.
02:19Thank you for coming on.
02:21Very quickly, what is your status currently with China, your personal status?
02:26I'm sanctioned by the Chinese government.
02:29There's a number of us, I think seven politicians in the UK Parliament.
02:34There are a number of politicians in Europe as well.
02:38And they're all members of IPAC, essentially.
02:41So the Interparliamentary Alliance on China.
02:42China, absolutely furious with us,
02:44because it was through the Interparliamentary Alliance on China
02:47and a man called Professor Zenz who found the documents
02:51that we were able to get hold of all the documents
02:54relating to the treatment of the Uyghur in Xinjiang.
02:58And those documents showed that there was a systematic attempt
03:01to eradicate the Uyghur as an ethnic group,
03:04a troublesome ethnic group in China.
03:07And so we published all of that all over the world on the same day.
03:10We have 40 countries that are members of IPAC now,
03:13including the United States.
03:15And so they went absolutely bonkers about it
03:17and sanctioned a number of people, both in Europe and in the UK.
03:22American co-chair once was Rubio.
03:25He's now had to step down.
03:26And he was also sanctioned as well.
03:28He, of course, is the US Secretary of State, Marco Rubio.
03:30What does it mean if you're sanctioned?
03:32It means you've got to be careful where you go to in the world.
03:35Well, yeah, basically they sanction all your family too.
03:38So what it means is you can't have any investments
03:42or any monies in banks.
03:44You get seized.
03:45And you're, strictly speaking, not meant to go anywhere near any countries,
03:51well, certainly any Chinese-owned country, as it were, or territory.
03:56But also it turns out now that we've had at least two IPAC members in the UK,
04:01the latest in Hong Kong.
04:02But there was one previously when another IPAC member
04:06was visiting a country in Africa and got held at the airport and sent away.
04:10And that country has huge sums of money being pumped into it by China.
04:15So trying to reach to make these sanctions even further is quite great.
04:21And, of course, yeah, you said that your family are caught by this.
04:24I have a daughter who works elsewhere, shall we say, not in the UK.
04:29And she and her husband are planning to come back during COVID,
04:33after the COVID lift, you know, they lifted it
04:35and their aircraft, the airline, as they had been, had tickets for,
04:40so they could have their tickets back if they applied, like everybody else.
04:43And they would just renew them.
04:45She uses her maiden name.
04:47He uses his own name.
04:49And when they applied, he got his back in a week.
04:52And this was about four weeks after I got sanctioned.
04:54And she's never heard from them again.
04:56And it turns out that the company was owned by China.
05:00So they mean business when they're off the ground.
05:01Yeah. And just as a dad, does that give you pause for thought?
05:05You're taking risks with your professional life,
05:08which are having a bearing on your daughter who's not even in the UK.
05:11Yeah, well, you know, like everything else,
05:15they've got used to it, I think, sadly, in my family.
05:19And, I mean, to be fair to her, she sent me a text saying,
05:23thanks, Dad, which is the level.
05:26But, you know, I apologize to everybody for doing it.
05:30But the reality is you've just got to get on with these things.
05:32And if you cave in like that, then others, you know,
05:36will have lost the chance to get some freedom.
05:39So I guess I'm sorry about all of that.
05:42But you're not really going to say nothing much I can do about it.
05:45You're taking a stand.
05:46You mentioned, you alluded there to Weirah Hobhouse.
05:49She's just become a grandmother.
05:50And then she was going to see her new baby grandchild in Hong Kong
05:54when she was turned away at the airport.
05:57Is she one of the sanctioned MPs?
05:58Do you know she's...
06:00So she's not, actually.
06:00She's a member of IPAC, though, and they will have noticed that.
06:06It's worth bearing in mind those who are sanctioned, like myself,
06:08do have things like wolf warriors following us every now and then.
06:11And we had a lot of that in my case, but others have had it too, I think,
06:17where these characters are very low-level operatives
06:20of the security system in China.
06:22And what they do is they impersonate you around the world,
06:25trying to persuade everybody that you've changed your mind
06:28and you think that President Xi is a magnificent humanitarian...
06:32Is that also online, the wolf warriors online?
06:36Yeah, mostly through emails and other contacts.
06:39They go...
06:40I get...
06:40It's sort of stopped recently, but I used to get lots of emails
06:44from people, you know, senators and others in different countries,
06:48including the States, who'd say,
06:49I've just received this email from you.
06:52I'm just not sure why you sent it to tell me how much you love President Xi.
06:56That sort of thing.
06:58It is alarming and worrying, isn't it?
07:00I mean, you saw what's happening with...
07:02China's back in the news now with the British Steel situation, too.
07:07I saw you in Parliament last Saturday calling for a sunset
07:10on the UK ownership, frankly, of that plant,
07:14although they're not literally ownership, not nationalised,
07:16but certainly running of that plant.
07:18But that has brought into focus, doesn't it,
07:20our relationship with China.
07:21What's your take on what happened at British Steel?
07:23Do you think the Chinese state has some involvement there,
07:26or was it a Chinese company which tried to buy a company
07:30which was losing money and has failed to make a go of it?
07:32First of all, we need to establish the reality of life with China.
07:38There is no such thing as a private company in China.
07:41They're all tied umbilically to the Chinese government
07:45and the Chinese security services.
07:47The national security law in China
07:48obligates every single organisation and company
07:51to hand over any of its data details
07:54or basically receive any instructions necessary
07:57in the course of their lives.
07:59So that makes you question, really,
08:01and I did at the time say to the then Conservative government,
08:04you cannot let this critical bit of production of steel,
08:10particularly the blast furnace,
08:11the only one we've got going now.
08:12The others in South Wales have been shut down.
08:15You cannot let that go into the hands of a country
08:17which is not a friend and does not abide by the WTO rules on trade.
08:22And you've seen the results of that, I'm sad to say.
08:25But somebody said, well, there's a conspiracy theory
08:29that somehow they were doing it
08:30because it was all part of a Chinese takeover.
08:32In fact, it's not a conspiracy theory.
08:34If you think about it, in shutting down the blast furnaces
08:37and you ask yourself the question,
08:38why would a Chinese company want to invest
08:40in what was clearly a loss-making organisation at the time?
08:44The key, I think, is shutting down the blast furnaces.
08:46If you shut the blast furnaces down there,
08:49what actually happens is the plan, I'm absolutely certain,
08:52would have been to import slab steel from China
08:54and then mill it in the UK,
08:56rebadging it as British steel
08:58and then getting around sanctions and tariffs in other countries.
09:02So this was not a general point.
09:04You can see the strategic value of owning British steel
09:08and at the same time giving a way out
09:11for Chinese overproduction of steel in China.
09:13I mean, some say that your Tory government in 2020
09:18selling it to a Chinese-owned company
09:20meant that the state taxpayers like they are now
09:23were not on the hook for it for five years.
09:25So is that a good thing, maybe,
09:28that China would say to put their money into this plant?
09:31They've invested in whatever, a billion quid
09:33and keeping it going.
09:35Well, as I say, China sees the long term
09:36in a way that elected governments cannot.
09:39So China sees that that money is an investment
09:42in finding a way out for Chinese steel.
09:45China produces about one billion tons of steel a year.
09:49Their own home market was pretty flat
09:51because the great housing, you know,
09:54the property scandal that's been taking place in China
09:56has meant that very little of that has been built,
09:58which is where most of their steel domestically was used.
10:01So they're dumping it elsewhere.
10:03We're not alone.
10:03They've dumped it in South Korea,
10:05dumped it in Vietnam.
10:06There's huge rows going on all over the world.
10:07Europe's, you know, arguing with them
10:09and tariffing them on steel.
10:11We don't.
10:12So investing in that gives you a way out.
10:15Did it save money?
10:16Well, you can question that, really,
10:17because we gave them a lump of money at the same time
10:20as they took it over.
10:21So here the question arises,
10:24who's thinking in the long term
10:25and who's looking in the short term?
10:26And I'm afraid it doesn't matter
10:27whether you're Labour or Conservative,
10:29you know, we get short-term decision-making.
10:32What's your take on this Labour attempt
10:35is a cautious rapprochement with Beijing.
10:40I think this week,
10:41Douglas Alexander has been out in China.
10:44They've raised the issue of we're a hobhouse
10:45in person there with the Chinese.
10:47There's, you know, there was a degree of...
10:50Rachel Reeves was out there early this year.
10:52We're expecting a visit of the Chinese Premier here
10:55or maybe Keir Starmer goes there this year.
10:58Do you approve of this?
10:59Is it risky?
11:01I think they're mad.
11:01I have no idea.
11:03We went through this, if you remember,
11:04under George Hossenfot.
11:05At the time, I said,
11:07I don't understand what we think we're achieving
11:08because the level of their investments
11:10wasn't that great.
11:12And importantly, what they did do
11:14is dump all their products on us.
11:16And Chinese students proliferated as a result.
11:18The universities have become completely dependent
11:20on that money now from China,
11:22such that they're very, very careful
11:24and won't allow much criticism of China.
11:26And you've got Chinese postgrad students
11:29ending up on defence contracts and things
11:31because of our failure to check.
11:33So I thought we'd been through that
11:35and we'd learnt the lesson.
11:36And I was one of those who charged in
11:39and tried to stop Boris Johnson
11:41from awarding the 5G contract to Huawei.
11:43It was a huge battle.
11:45We eventually won it at the same time,
11:46but not long after,
11:47they gave this contract over the steelmaking
11:50and we didn't stop that.
11:51But the point that we're making
11:52is that we should have learnt the lesson
11:54from what happened
11:55and not had to rediscover it.
11:58And so this government's come in desperate for growth
12:00and having honestly screwed up
12:03in their original budgets last year,
12:06which has overtaxed everything,
12:08they're now desperate thinking
12:09China's going to give them growth.
12:10China's not going to do that.
12:12And this is all driven by the net zero nonsense
12:14that we've got from Miliband,
12:16who is so ideologically driven by this idea
12:19that he will literally turn a blind eye
12:22to slave labour in the solar arrays,
12:24which there is proof of,
12:25which we are buying and they want more of.
12:27The wind turbines, you mean that?
12:30Yeah.
12:30Both sides, Cellaray and the wind turbines,
12:33have used slave forced labour,
12:36most of it Uyghur, by the way.
12:37There's millions of Uyghur men in forced labour
12:40that women are being sterilised forcibly
12:42and the children are in re-eaching.
12:43Is that proven, Eelon, with the slave labour?
12:45Yeah, it's completely proven.
12:46Yeah, it's all from the...
12:47We published all the documents
12:48about what's actually happening.
12:50And you saw even the BBC did this programme
12:53where they showed you the columns of these individuals
12:56all chained up, going off into trains.
12:58They're all Uyghur men.
12:59They are all over China,
13:00a thousand miles away from their homes.
13:02And the polysilicon that is critical to solar arrays,
13:07a huge amount of that is produced in Xinjiang
13:10and made by slave labour,
13:13which is why they can cheapen their products so dramatically,
13:15as well as illegally subsidising them
13:18with central bank funding.
13:20So we buy cheap because that's what...
13:23And that's why China dominates the market now,
13:24because they've undercut every single commercial company
13:27in the world.
13:28They do it everywhere, in everything,
13:30and we turn a blind eye.
13:31So do you, given that rather negative view of China,
13:36and China would dispute that, of course,
13:38but do you think that what Trump's done
13:40by imposing these huge tariffs on China
13:42is a good thing, maybe, in a perverse way?
13:46I'm not anti-China.
13:47There's a lot of decent Chinese people.
13:49It's the Communist Party of China,
13:50which is the problem here,
13:53because, you know,
13:54I think if they had a democratic existence there,
13:57there would be a government there that was democratic
13:59where we could deal with them.
14:00But no democratic government would have slave labour,
14:03forced labour and brutality,
14:05and the highest number of executions
14:06of pretty much any country in the world
14:08for organ harvesting.
14:10So when you deal with President Trump,
14:12the question you were asking just now,
14:14the point is,
14:15I am a free marketer under the rules.
14:18So if you have rules,
14:19then have a free market.
14:20If you don't have rules,
14:22and countries abuse those,
14:23then you can't have a free market.
14:25And he's right in that regard,
14:26although I'm not keen on massive tariffs.
14:29But I do, in China's case,
14:31see that it's different,
14:32different from the Europe,
14:33different from the UK,
14:34because they have manipulated their currencies,
14:37and they do all the things I've talked about now,
14:39undercutting a market which has to be under a rules-based,
14:42which is a mid-zone debate.
14:44Forgive me,
14:44so to be quite clear,
14:45you're against these big tariffs imposed on China,
14:48despite what we're saying.
14:49Against the big tariffs that he's imposed
14:51on every single country around the world.
14:52What I say is,
14:53he needs to be more selective when it comes to tariffs.
14:56The truth is,
14:56the dangerous countries that have undermined that market
14:59that he's complaining about,
15:01the unbinding,
15:02are massively China,
15:03and the dictatorships.
15:06And so what we need to deal with
15:07is what is actually the reality,
15:09which is the abuse
15:11of the World Trade Organization,
15:13rules-based order.
15:15And even if you trash them by putting extra taxes,
15:17that needs also to be established.
15:19But in the case of China,
15:20it's so great
15:21that you have to do something about it.
15:24Instead of running there on bended knee,
15:26a cow tang,
15:27as I call it,
15:28to China now by the British government,
15:29we should be very careful
15:30about our dealings with them
15:32and sub with a very, very long spoon.
15:35But just finally on this,
15:36I mean,
15:36your last,
15:37your colleagues
15:38and the last Conservative government,
15:39they all did it.
15:40Although certainly under,
15:41well,
15:41until Theresa May
15:42and Boris Johnson,
15:43they kind of further descended.
15:46But before that,
15:47certainly Osborne and Cameron did it.
15:49You can see the knee though.
15:50Growth is so important for people here.
15:52If you can see an easy way
15:53of dealing with China,
15:54is it a risk worth taking
15:55or is that a risk too far?
15:58Well,
15:58we've taken the risk.
15:59Yes.
16:00The aftermath of the risk.
16:02So many companies
16:03were encouraged
16:03to go to China
16:04for cheap production.
16:05They questioned not
16:07how that was done
16:08and they got cheaper product.
16:10The truth is now
16:11that if you look
16:12in the area
16:13around the South China seas,
16:15Taiwan,
16:16China itself
16:17and some of those others
16:18like the Philippines,
16:2072% of everything made now
16:22is made in that area.
16:23Now,
16:24that means
16:24we have stripped out
16:26huge amounts of industry
16:27from the Western democracies.
16:29We now rely almost completely
16:31on a country,
16:33particularly in the case of China,
16:34whose regime
16:35and whose abuse
16:37of the World Trade Organization
16:39is astonishing.
16:40And so on that basis,
16:41we've turned a blind eye
16:43to it already.
16:43Now,
16:44what are we seeing?
16:45We are seeing the fact
16:46that we're having to increase
16:47defense spending
16:47because the threat
16:48from those dictatorships,
16:50Russia,
16:51Iran,
16:52China,
16:53North Korea,
16:54all together,
16:55working together.
16:55We've seen that threat grow.
16:57So why are we doing this?
16:58We have now to have defense.
17:00But unlike the 1940s,
17:01we don't have
17:02the ability
17:04to make things
17:04so much as we did.
17:05We've got to bring it back.
17:07Doing that
17:08is a big deal for us
17:09because we were so slack
17:10about not seeing
17:11a strategic role
17:12for certain industries.
17:13So now what we have to do
17:14is define
17:15strategic industries.
17:17And I'm afraid
17:17none of those countries
17:18can be involved in those.
17:20And that has to be
17:20for Europe as well
17:21and the United States.
17:23So this is a very dangerous period.
17:25But understanding
17:26what you're up against
17:27is the number one rule
17:28of getting it right.
17:29And I'm afraid
17:30the present government
17:31is all over the place on this.
17:33On the one hand,
17:33they're running over to China.
17:35On the other hand,
17:36they're calling out
17:36a Chinese company
17:37that they think
17:38has manipulated
17:39some of the facets
17:40of their takeover.
17:42And finally,
17:43of course,
17:43what do we hear?
17:44We hear President Xi
17:46standing up
17:46and warning the UK
17:48three days ago
17:49that they need to watch out
17:51is they carry on like this
17:53and that will have repercussions
17:55on their relationship.
17:56So you can see
17:57how Downing Street
17:57is suddenly shuddering
17:59at the idea
17:59that China may not
18:00want to do business with us.
18:02And the answer is
18:03we shouldn't really
18:04be running to them
18:05to try and get them to do it
18:06because it puts us
18:06in their hands.
18:08Well, Serene Duncan-Smith,
18:09thank you for joining us today
18:10on Chopper's
18:11Political Podcast
18:12with a silency warning,
18:13maybe,
18:14about Beijing
18:15and London for the future.
18:16Thank you for joining us.
18:22Ian Duncan-Smith,
18:23thank you.
18:24Now, next up,
18:25Easter.
18:26This is the most important
18:27day this weekend
18:28in the Christian calendar.
18:30But for many,
18:31they see a gradual erosion,
18:33almost an expunging
18:34of this important festival
18:36in our national life.
18:38Why is it happening?
18:39One MP is concerned
18:40is Andrew Rosendahl MP,
18:42the Conservative MP
18:43for Romford.
18:44And he joins me now.
18:45Andrew Rosendahl,
18:46welcome to Chopper's
18:47Political Podcast.
18:48Great to have you here.
18:49Is the observance of Easter
18:52by our institutions,
18:54government in decline?
18:55I'm afraid.
18:56I think it is.
18:57I believe that Easter
18:58is the holiest time of year
19:00in the Christian calendar.
19:01It's very much part
19:02of our culture.
19:03I grew up
19:04being solemn on Good Friday.
19:06Yeah.
19:07Today.
19:08Believing that Good Friday
19:09is a day
19:10that we should reflect
19:11about
19:12the importance
19:14of our religion
19:15in our culture,
19:16our way of life,
19:17but also going to church,
19:18those who wanted
19:19to go to church.
19:20I just think
19:21it's being lost.
19:21I don't think
19:22this is being reflected
19:24by our institutions,
19:25by our schools,
19:26by the media.
19:28I think GB News
19:28may be an exception to that.
19:29I've well seen
19:30what you're doing
19:31and it's fantastic.
19:31We're doing a moment
19:32of reflection
19:33through Lent.
19:34Exactly.
19:34We did it through Advent
19:35and it was extremely popular.
19:37I mean,
19:37extremely popular.
19:38I mean,
19:38some might think
19:39surprisingly popular.
19:40I think people out there
19:41are craving
19:41some spirituality
19:42even from a New Year's childhood.
19:43But at Christmas
19:44I think you did the same thing
19:45and I think it's fantastic
19:46you're doing that.
19:47But sadly,
19:48so many of our institutions
19:49are now almost erasing
19:52our Christian heritage
19:53from all that we do
19:55and I raised it
19:56in Parliament last week
19:58about the Easter adjournment.
19:59Well,
19:59you can ask about that.
20:00What happened last week?
20:01Well,
20:01I noticed
20:02that the Easter adjournment debate
20:04and I've been an MP
20:05like 24 years
20:06and I remember
20:06the Easter adjournment debates.
20:07In fact,
20:08Sir David Amos
20:08used to go every time
20:10and it used to be
20:11the final debate
20:12for Easter
20:13where MPs can raise
20:14any topic they choose
20:15and it was always called
20:18Easter.
20:18It wasn't a religious thing.
20:19It was called Easter.
20:21It allowed you maybe
20:22to say something religious.
20:23And some didn't.
20:23Some didn't.
20:24Exactly.
20:25But they seemed to
20:26take away
20:27the name of Easter
20:29and just called it
20:29a general debate
20:31for matters for the adjournment.
20:32Yeah.
20:32And I noticed that.
20:34On the order paper.
20:35On the order paper.
20:36It's printed.
20:36And I actually raised it
20:37with Selin Zuhoyle,
20:39the speaker,
20:40who advised me
20:41to raise a point of order.
20:42He hadn't noticed
20:43that that had happened.
20:44So I raised it
20:45as a point of order
20:46and the deputy speaker
20:48in the chair
20:48then referred it
20:49to Bob Blackman,
20:49who's the chairman
20:50of the Backbench
20:52Business Committee.
20:53Also a Tory MP.
20:54Also a Tory MP.
20:55And I think it was a shock
20:56for everybody
20:56that this has happened
20:57and nobody noticed
20:59that the name
21:00of the debate
21:00had changed.
21:01But immediately
21:02Bob Blackman said,
21:03no, it should be
21:03the Easter German debate
21:04and then it became again
21:06the Easter German debate.
21:07I can test that.
21:08On the screens
21:09it said
21:09Easter German
21:10because you protested.
21:12But if people
21:13like you and Bob Blackman
21:14weren't alert to this,
21:15it would just carry on
21:16this erasure,
21:17removal
21:19of this language
21:22about our national history.
21:23This is going on everywhere
21:24and there's talk
21:26of the,
21:26I know it's a bit silly,
21:27but Easter eggs
21:28in all the shops.
21:30Very few of them
21:31actually say Easter now.
21:33So there's things like that
21:34that gradually
21:35generations will grow up,
21:37unlike perhaps you and I
21:38that grew up
21:38understanding the importance
21:40of this part of our
21:41heritage and culture.
21:42It's not just about faith.
21:43Faith is vital,
21:44very important,
21:45but not everyone
21:45is a Christian
21:46and not everyone
21:46wants to go to church,
21:48but it's still part
21:49of our culture.
21:50We are a Christian country
21:52both in terms
21:53of our religious faith,
21:55traditionally,
21:55but also our culture.
21:57And if we discard
21:58those traditions
21:59and if we don't cherish
22:01them and look after them,
22:02then we're creating
22:02a vacuum.
22:03And what's going to
22:04replace those traditions
22:05with what vacuum,
22:06who's going to fill
22:07that vacuum?
22:08And it worries me
22:09that if we don't
22:11uphold these things,
22:12if we don't cherish
22:13these things and defend
22:14our Christian heritage,
22:15then we're going to be
22:18in a very mushy situation
22:20where other religions
22:22and other traditions
22:23can come and say,
22:23well, we're going to
22:25dominate.
22:26We're going to push our views.
22:27Is it right, though,
22:28that all religions
22:29are treated in the same way?
22:31Or do you, you know,
22:32the Islamic faith,
22:34Hindus, Sikhs, Christians,
22:35or should we favour
22:37one, the Christian?
22:38Well, we do already.
22:39We are the Church of England
22:41is the established church.
22:43So I believe
22:44in the established
22:45Church of England.
22:46I believe that you have
22:47the Church of England
22:48as the religion of the state
22:51where the king
22:51is the head of that church.
22:53But all religions
22:54and denominations
22:55are equal under the law.
22:56Yes.
22:57So every religion
22:58must accept
22:59that the laws,
23:00traditions,
23:01and the conventions
23:03of this country
23:04are Christian.
23:04and the Church of England
23:06is the state religion
23:08and the king
23:08is the head of that church.
23:10They must respect that.
23:11And then
23:12they are protected
23:13and defended
23:14to worship
23:15in any way they choose
23:16within the law,
23:17whichever denomination
23:18or religion.
23:19So they're all equal
23:20under the law.
23:21But ultimately,
23:22the cross
23:22is on the crown.
23:24If you look at the crown,
23:25there's a cross.
23:26And that tells us
23:27the religion of this country
23:28is Christian.
23:29And that must be upheld.
23:30Why is there a nervousness
23:31about the powers that be
23:33in Parliament
23:34while they're not calling
23:35a debate,
23:35the Easter debate,
23:36calling something else?
23:36Well,
23:37we don't really know
23:38who changed the name of it.
23:39But it's Rob.
23:40It's happening.
23:40I wonder why.
23:41You see it elsewhere too.
23:43You see Winterbull,
23:44not Christmas,
23:45this kind of thing
23:46in the old...
23:46Very frustrating.
23:48Look,
23:48I don't know.
23:49All I will say
23:50is that
23:50throughout my lifetime,
23:51I've noticed,
23:53as I'm sure you have,
23:54Chris,
23:55this political correctness
23:56getting more and more extreme,
23:59and now we have
24:00the woke craziness
24:01which is invading
24:03every area of our lives,
24:05we have to fight back
24:06and we have to crush it
24:07because it's just
24:08undermining everything
24:09that's great about our country.
24:13And therefore,
24:14I like what Donald Trump
24:16has done in the United States.
24:17You know,
24:17he's got rid of,
24:18completely erased
24:19the woke agenda
24:20from all areas of government.
24:23And I think
24:23the next conservative government
24:24needs to do exactly
24:25the same thing.
24:27In America,
24:28they wear their faith
24:29on their sleeves.
24:31Donald Trump
24:31says a lot of things
24:33about Christianity,
24:33doesn't he?
24:34Do you want to see more
24:34of that from our leaders
24:35in this country,
24:36wearing their faith,
24:37their Christianity?
24:37I think it's down
24:38to the individual.
24:39Nobody should have to
24:41wear their faith
24:41on their sleeve.
24:42It's a very personal thing.
24:44But I do believe
24:45that whatever religion
24:45you are,
24:46or denomination,
24:47and even if you have
24:48no faith,
24:49I think you have to respect
24:50that the foundations
24:52of our constitution,
24:53of our laws,
24:54and our traditions,
24:54our customs,
24:55are of a Christian nature.
24:57And if you take away
24:58those foundations,
25:00what's going to happen
25:01to our country?
25:01And there's a risk too.
25:02Do you find it
25:03a bit performative,
25:04certainly on social media?
25:05So you see
25:06Keir Starmer
25:08marking Eid
25:10or marking
25:10the Isfah,
25:11I think it's part
25:12of the Islamic faith,
25:13these kind of things.
25:14And then someone
25:15said he hadn't marked
25:16Palm Sunday
25:17last Sunday.
25:18And then that annoys people.
25:19I mean,
25:19it's quite a dangerous road
25:20to go down,
25:21isn't it,
25:21in politics,
25:22if you mark
25:22certain days,
25:24not other days.
25:25Everyone wonders,
25:25why not me?
25:26I certainly celebrate
25:29with denominations
25:31and religions
25:31in my constituency
25:32if they have
25:33a special event,
25:33whether it's
25:34the Jewish community,
25:35the Muslim community,
25:36the Hindus,
25:36whatever it might be.
25:37What I always do
25:39is to put on
25:41my own social media
25:42things that celebrate
25:45our Christian heritage.
25:46But if you start
25:47putting things on
25:48about every religion,
25:50you're going to miss
25:51one out.
25:51And in the end,
25:52you're going to
25:53offend somebody.
25:54So I personally
25:55stick to the Christian faith
25:57because that's my faith.
25:58Yeah.
25:58And I respect
26:00and celebrate
26:00with my constituents
26:02when they have events
26:03and when they have
26:04special celebrations
26:05because I respect
26:06freedom of religion
26:07in this country
26:07and would defend that.
26:09But I personally
26:10on social media,
26:11I will only really usually
26:13It's quite risky.
26:14You're the Christian.
26:15It goes towards
26:16identity, doesn't it?
26:17And that's always
26:18where the difficult
26:19conversations
26:20are being had.
26:22We had this week
26:22the Supreme Court
26:23ruling what a woman is.
26:25That might kill off
26:27that debate.
26:27We don't know.
26:28But this issue of identity,
26:30faith, gender.
26:32It's great to hear
26:32that the Supreme Court
26:33have done something good
26:34at last.
26:34Having made so many
26:36rulings that are not so good
26:37but this is the right
26:38decision.
26:39But look,
26:40I just think
26:40this whole thing
26:41is an attack
26:42on our way of life.
26:44And I got in politics
26:45because I believe
26:47in this country.
26:48I believe
26:48in our British heritage.
26:50You're wearing your union.
26:51I'm wearing my union jack.
26:52I always do.
26:54And I think that
26:55we should fly
26:55the union flag
26:56or the union jack
26:57from all public buildings
26:59and schools.
26:59I'd like to see
27:00all schools fly that
27:01and I'd like to see
27:02the national anthem
27:03sung in assemblies
27:04in schools as well.
27:06And I think not at the moment.
27:07No, it's not.
27:08It's not at the moment.
27:09And when I go to schools
27:10and present
27:11Portrait of the King,
27:12which I do
27:13to all the schools
27:14in my constituency,
27:15I do say to the headteacher,
27:17can they sing
27:18the national anthem?
27:19And when do they want
27:19to do this?
27:20Well, normally they do.
27:21But look,
27:22there is a sort of like
27:23attitude now
27:24that every other culture,
27:26every other religion
27:27can be celebrated,
27:27but we've got to be
27:30a bit embarrassed
27:30about our own.
27:32I just think
27:32that has to now,
27:33we have to reverse this.
27:35There has to be
27:35a fight back.
27:36A fight back.
27:37Starting maybe
27:38on national days.
27:39It's St. George's Day
27:40Wednesday next week,
27:43the 23rd of April.
27:45You want to see
27:47flags raised for that too?
27:49100%.
27:50So we are English.
27:51This is England.
27:53St. George's Day
27:53is the day
27:55of our patron saint.
27:56It's effectively
27:56our national day
27:58for England.
27:59It firstly should be
28:00a bank holiday
28:00and my first
28:0110-minute rule
28:04was to make
28:06St. George's Day
28:07a public holiday.
28:08It sadly hasn't happened.
28:10It's the first of May
28:10being so near to it,
28:11I think.
28:11Well, I suggested
28:12that perhaps
28:14May Day
28:15could be dumped
28:17and we have
28:17St. George's Day
28:18instead.
28:19That didn't go
28:20down well
28:20on some of the
28:21Labour benches.
28:22It was separated out
28:23from the Whitson Bank
28:23holiday,
28:24which is late May.
28:25Yeah.
28:25It had a longer gap
28:26between the two.
28:26Yeah.
28:27So I do think
28:27we should celebrate
28:28St. George's Day
28:29and the same
28:31with St. Patrick's Day,
28:31St. David's Day
28:32and St. Edward's Day.
28:34Well, possibly
28:36across the country
28:37but certainly
28:37in their own.
28:38I think actually
28:39in Northern Ireland
28:40St. Patrick's Day
28:41is a public holiday.
28:42I think in St. Andrew's Day,
28:44I think the Scottish
28:45government may have
28:46made it.
28:46I need to check that.
28:47I don't think
28:48St. David's Day
28:49is a public holiday
28:49in Wales
28:50but certainly
28:50St. George's Day.
28:51Who celebrates it?
28:52Hardly anybody does.
28:53Local councils,
28:54mine does actually,
28:55we have celebrations.
28:56You personally celebrate it?
28:57I personally celebrate it.
28:58We have a big event
28:59in the Houses of Parliament.
29:02Mr Speaker's hosting it
29:03in Speaker's House
29:04on the 23rd
29:05and we have events
29:06in the constituency
29:07but, you know,
29:09the whole of the country
29:10doesn't necessarily do that
29:11and I just think
29:12we should make more
29:13of our Patron Saints Day.
29:14Because symbols matter,
29:15don't they?
29:16They matter more and more,
29:17I think.
29:18With, you know,
29:19the big,
29:20the unsorted out debate
29:22is one of,
29:23on migration.
29:24People see their communities
29:26being diluted
29:27from who was there before
29:28and they,
29:29new cultures come in
29:31and that,
29:32some see that
29:33as an attack
29:33on the culture
29:34they're used to.
29:35Is that why it matters?
29:36Identity matters.
29:38So,
29:38we all come
29:39from different backgrounds.
29:40We all have
29:40different ancestry
29:41and we cherish that.
29:43You know,
29:43we care about
29:44where we're from
29:45and I think
29:46in today's world
29:48we're sort of losing that.
29:49So,
29:49national symbols
29:50are vital.
29:52Our national religion
29:52is vital
29:53which we've spoken
29:54about.
29:55Our local identity
29:56is also very important
29:58to us
29:58and which is why
29:59government bodies
30:00sometimes mess things up
30:02and we lose identity.
30:03So,
30:04in my area particularly
30:05we have a huge issue
30:06because we're Essex
30:07but for years
30:08and years
30:08and years
30:09government bureaucrats
30:11have said,
30:11no,
30:11you're East London now
30:12so we're losing
30:13our identity
30:14and with these
30:14changes that the government
30:16are bringing in
30:17with local government
30:17it's really highlighting
30:18the importance
30:20of recalibrating
30:22how these things work.
30:23that national symbols
30:24and local identity
30:25are very important
30:26but it's often
30:27discarded as a
30:29peripheral thing
30:30nothing very important
30:32but I think it is.
30:33I think if you get
30:33the identity right
30:34and the belonging
30:36that goes
30:37then you have responsibility.
30:38that kind of bloodless
30:40approach to boundaries
30:41I remember when
30:42Michael Heseltine
30:43in the 74
30:43redrew those boundaries
30:45he said he flew
30:47over the country
30:47and I mean
30:49it's really important
30:50I mean
30:50and we've seen also
30:51the renaming
30:52of people's streets
30:53and that isn't the noise
30:55but who lived there
30:56and you know
30:57you've got your issues
30:58where you want to be
30:58in Essex
30:59not East London
30:59don't you
31:00some of your constituents
31:01some of your local people
31:02yes
31:02this really matters
31:03so I think they've
31:04muddled it all up
31:05with different boundaries
31:06for different purposes
31:07and what has to happen
31:09is you've got to divide
31:11between administrative boundaries
31:12which is what
31:13local government is
31:14and what are real places
31:17that are rooted
31:17in history
31:18and geography
31:18and also
31:20social interaction
31:22so you know
31:23if you come to Romford
31:24you're Essex
31:25you know
31:25we have more in common
31:26with Brentwood
31:27than we do with Brentford
31:28which is the other side
31:29of London
31:30but we're apparently
31:31in the same region
31:32it doesn't make sense to me
31:34and I think the whole thing
31:35needs to be recalibrated
31:36so areas like Romford
31:38and Havering
31:39can really connect more
31:40with the area
31:42of the country
31:42and the county
31:43that we're traditionally
31:44part of
31:44which is Essex
31:45and it may start
31:46with flying the county flag
31:47well we do
31:48so we've now made
31:50that a tradition
31:51so Havering Town Hall
31:52flies the Essex flag
31:54on Essex Day
31:55but it really should fly
31:56every day of the year
31:57and other flags too
31:58they're flying
31:59I think you said
32:00earlier
32:01to me off air
32:02in that House of Commons
32:04maybe number 10
32:05will they fly
32:06one of these flags
32:07one of the counties
32:07well so there's a story
32:09going on here
32:09which your viewers
32:11ought to know about
32:12especially those
32:12that live in
32:13the Middlesex area
32:14so the Middlesex Society
32:17established by
32:18the great man
32:19Russell Grant
32:20so they purchased
32:21the Middlesex flag
32:22to fly
32:23number 10 Downing Street
32:24on Middlesex Day
32:25which I think
32:26is the 17th of May
32:27and Boris
32:29started that tradition
32:30Rishi continued
32:31with it
32:31so I'm going to say
32:33here and now
32:34to the Prime Minister
32:35I hope he's going to
32:36continue with that tradition
32:37because number 10 Downing Street
32:38is in the historic
32:39county of Middlesex
32:40and why can't we celebrate
32:42that historic day
32:43there may not be
32:43a county council
32:44for Middlesex anymore
32:45but still people identify
32:47with that historic county
32:48he's heard he won't fly it
32:49I've heard rumours
32:50right
32:51and I'm going to be
32:52raising it to see
32:53if he
32:54look it costs nothing
32:55to respect Middlesex Day
32:57and respect the
32:59traditional county
33:00of Middlesex
33:01I'm not suggesting
33:02he flies every
33:03flag of every county
33:04but because
33:05Westminster
33:06is part of
33:08the historic county
33:09of Middlesex
33:10we should at least
33:10respect Middlesex Day
33:12OK
33:12well on that note
33:13well we'll look out
33:14for the flag
33:16on the flagpole
33:17on May 17th
33:18Andrew Rosendale
33:18thank you for joining us
33:19today
33:20on Chopper's
33:21political podcast
33:22great to have you here
33:23thank you so much
33:23for coming in
33:24thank you earlier
33:25to Ian Duncan-Smith
33:26and thank you
33:27for listening to us
33:28wherever you are
33:28in the country
33:29or the world
33:30I tweet at
33:30Christopher Hope
33:31on X
33:31what's your
33:32Twitter handle
33:32Andrew
33:33well it's
33:34at Andrew Rosendale
33:35so it's an easy one
33:36very straightforward
33:37email me to
33:38chopper
33:39at gbnews.uk
33:40if you enjoyed
33:42this podcast
33:42please do tell
33:43your friends
33:43if you really
33:44enjoyed it
33:45please leave a
33:45five star rating
33:46and review
33:46on Apple Podcasts
33:48and or Spotify
33:49that helps other
33:50people to find it
33:51thank the great
33:52team of
33:52juveniles colleagues
33:53behind the podcast
33:54Mick Booker
33:54and Jeff Marsh
33:55back at HQ
33:56the little
33:57worker wasp
33:58the worker bees
33:59here in
34:00juveniles studios
34:00Westminster
34:01Rebecca Noons
34:02and George
34:03McMillan
34:03and most importantly
34:05of all
34:05thank you again
34:06for listening
34:06if you've got more
34:07chopper in your life
34:08and Andrew
34:08Rosendale certainly does
34:10who catch me
34:10during the week
34:11on GB News
34:12with your latest
34:13political stories
34:14and updates
34:14and presenting
34:15the occasional
34:15programme too
34:16and keep up to date
34:17with our best
34:18reporting on our
34:18website
34:19gbnews.com
34:20but until next time
34:21happy Easter
34:22and cheerio