During a House Oversight Committee hearing prior to the congressional recess, Rep. Scott Perry (R-PA) questioned Mark P. Mills, the Executive Director at the National Center for Energy Analytics, about the race to develop artificial intelligence.
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00:00Thank you. I now recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Perry, for five minutes.
00:04Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chilson, in your testimony, you mentioned Microsoft's recent
00:08announcement to reopen Three Mile Island to power one of its data centers in Pennsylvania.
00:17It's at the heart of the district that I'm honored to represent. Constellation Energy by reopening it
00:24will create approximately 3,400 new jobs, create over $3 billion in state and federal taxes,
00:31adding $16 billion to Pennsylvania's GDP. Can you, I mean, Constellation obviously owns Three Mile
00:41Island, but Microsoft could have said, well, we want the most efficient, I know we were just talking
00:46about efficiency for data centers and that data center operators don't want or maybe don't care.
00:53That's the inference. They don't care about the efficiency of the power they get. So why didn't
00:57Microsoft come to Pennsylvania to the PJM and say, well, look, we need this much power. We want you
01:04to build this much solar or we want you to add this much wind or this much renewable. Why did they pick
01:10Three Mile Island? I think they're looking at the trade-offs and the cost of energy there and,
01:16you know, getting more energy from a facility that, you know, has a proven ability to generate
01:24it and I think the ability to mobilize it quickly. This is a race, not just in a highly competitive
01:33race among companies in the U.S., but obviously internationally. And so getting this done quickly,
01:40I think is really important. And I think they saw the opportunity to jump on this particular supply.
01:47Do you know the efficiency rating of nuclear power, particularly Three Mile Island? Is it
01:5295% efficient, 97% when it was operating previously? Do you?
01:57I don't know offhand. I suspect there are some other people on this panel who might be able to tell you
02:02that. It's in the high 90s, right? And it's base load power, right? And it's not dependent on
02:07the sun shining or the wind blowing. Do data centers, or do data centers, should they be
02:14concerned about baseload power that is reliable and consistent 24 hours a day, 365 days a year?
02:23Absolutely. They run some of the most important services. They support some of the most important
02:28services that we all use all the time. And so they need to be up and running all the time.
02:32Mr. Mills, you seem interested in answering and you can go where you want to with us. We've got a
02:37little bit of time left. But we're looking at, and as Mr. Chilson said, at a race, and a race
02:43often with our adversary, and as they describe us, the enemy, which is China. What can we learn
02:49as the United States from an energy perspective from China in winning this race?
02:56Well, that's, speed matters, I guess would be the short answer that the Chinese are very good
03:02at building nuclear plants in four years, new ones.
03:04Well, hold on a second. China also provides 85, somewhere in that percentage of solar panels
03:10and solar panel-related battery.
03:13Correct, yes, sir.
03:14Why aren't they, if they provide that and they're so good at that, why aren't they using those things
03:20to meet their Paris Climate Accord requirements and to show the world that this works for winning
03:27this race? Why aren't they doing that?
03:29Well, I think, not to be a cynic, they are doing that, of course. They're building everything,
03:33but they're also building coal plants at a few days pace as well.
03:36And they produce over 95% of the silicon needed for photovoltaic cells in the world on coal-fired
03:43grids. About two-thirds of the grid is coal-fired, as you know. And the location of the energy-intensive
03:48manufacturing of polysilicon to make photovoltaic cells is on the coal-intense part of the grid.
03:54So China recognizes that power is fundamental, that getting it quickly and inexpensively matters.
04:01I'm not endorsing China's environmental policies, however, because...
04:05And neither am I.
04:06I think we can thread the needle in between the two. I was pleased to hear that you're from the
04:12district that I visited on March 28, 1979, not to date myself.
04:17I lived there at that time.
04:19We may have bumped into each other.
04:21Still do.
04:21I spent the week of the accident at the site and spent the next half-dozen years of my life
04:27defending the virtues of nuclear energy.
04:29Unsuccessfully, obviously, since we abandoned it largely, but...
04:33Well, it's coming back.
04:34It is.
04:35Awesome news.
04:36I think the refurbishment of TMI is a very good sign because it's possible to bring that
04:41back online.
04:41There's only maybe a half-dozen reactors like that.
04:43But if I may answer the question, why did Microsoft choose that?
04:47It chose that because you can quickly get an enormous amount of highly reliable power.
04:53And, of course, Microsoft likes the fact that it's non-combustion power.
04:56Highly reliable, highly efficient, highly affordable, right?
05:01Yes, sir.
05:01On all of the above.
05:03But they didn't ask for...
05:05You know, you can put up a lot of solar panels quickly, too, right?
05:07Yeah, I think you're going to...
05:09To be fair, I think you're going to see both.
05:11So if you look at what's going on in Louisiana with the large new META facility, it's three
05:15gigawatts, like three or four three-mile islands worth of power requirements.
05:19And they're going to build windmills, solar arrays, and almost...
05:23Would they be doing that without federal and state subsidies for the non-traditional power
05:30sources?
05:30I am skeptical that they would, but I think...
05:34Me, too.
05:35I think, given the amount of money these companies have, I share Mr. Slocum's view that these
05:40are very deep-pocketed organizations.
05:42I think they would still...
05:44This is my suspicion.
05:46I'm all for getting rid of all the subsidies.
05:48I'm on record frequently before Congress on this.
05:50I think that they would still build a lot of solar and windmills, but a lot less of it
05:54than they are now doing.
05:55I yield.