Taiwan's defense minister has faced a grilling at the legislature as pressure mounts over a rising number of cases of alleged Chinese espionage, with the latest scandal reaching as high as the Presidential Office.
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00:00We begin with the latest on Chinese espionage in Taiwan.
00:03The country's defense minister, Wellington Koo, has been grilled at the legislature
00:06over a string of recent spy cases, some reportedly including military police who guard the president.
00:13Rick Lourd has been following developments and joins us now from our newsroom.
00:17Rick, what has the defense minister been saying?
00:22Well, Wellington Koo, the defense minister, is taking a lot of flack in the legislature this morning.
00:27Lawmakers asking him how Taiwan's military could become so rotten with Chinese espionage
00:32and pressuring him to do more to root out those Chinese spies.
00:37Koo, of course, under increasing pressure here over those rising number of spy cases
00:42that appear to be getting higher up Taiwan's chain of command.
00:46This week, there's been reports of spy cases involving a former aide to the foreign minister
00:51and also the military police tasked with protecting Taiwan's presidential office.
00:57Koo said that he had plans to revise the military penal code to include premeditated espionage.
01:04This is, of course, all part of China's wider efforts to intimidate Taiwan into accepting its claims.
01:12Influence and infiltration are on the rise here.
01:15Now, to get a sense of how big an issue this is for Taiwan,
01:18I spoke to political scientist Jia-in Zhong of the National University of Singapore,
01:23and I began by asking him whether Taiwan was doing enough to combat Chinese espionage.
01:28Of course, more can be done, but Taiwan as a democracy will probably want to do so in a way
01:37that follows a rule of law that respects human rights and due process and all that,
01:42which can mean that things are a little bit tougher.
01:44In some ways, it's a sort of marathon to address espionage in general and PRC espionage in particular,
01:50given the resources available to the Chinese state.
01:53In terms of military courts, in terms of investigation, in terms of capacity,
01:57these things are important.
01:58I think having clear laws that help agencies figure out what to do,
02:04that's probably useful as well.
02:06I would also note that there is the related influence operation stuff
02:09that is not exactly espionage, but is somewhat related.
02:13Those things can and probably should be clarified at the same time.
02:16And, you know, it's also about upgrading skills and technology and techniques
02:22and field craft continually, because on the PRC side, you know,
02:25they will continue to improve themselves.
02:28And what exactly is the threat that Taiwan is facing?
02:31What is Beijing's big plan through these espionage campaigns?
02:34So there's several.
02:36One is to perhaps understand what Taiwan is doing in terms of its policies,
02:42to get key technologies, get its war plans, for instance.
02:48And that is slightly different from the influence operation stuff,
02:51which seeks to shape public opinion, shape legislation and policy.
02:56So there are these two slightly related, but slightly different fronts
03:00that aren't exactly reducible to each other.
03:03And we've also seen recent Chinese spy cases in the Philippines.
03:06Is Chinese espionage on the rise globally?
03:11So this is an interesting point.
03:13I mean, there's a claim that the PRC is stepping up his espionage activities.
03:17That hasn't been said.
03:19With espionage cases coming to the public, of course, they create a lot of trepidation.
03:24They create a lot of, they draw a lot of attention.
03:28But the fact that espionage cases are being detected also means that,
03:32you know, espionage networks are being disrupted, right?
03:37So an increase in activity, if that's matched by an increase in the breaking up of espionage activities,
03:43that is not necessarily that bad a thing.
03:47In the legislature today, the Ministry of National Defense also said that China's tactics are changing,
03:53increasingly using criminal gangs and religious groups for recruitment.
03:58This is an evolving threat for Taiwan.
04:00And what's at stake for Taiwan's military is their credibility as they lead the fight against China.
04:06Thank you, Rick.
04:09We'll be keeping an eye on those spy cases.