On Tuesday, Gov. Kathy Hochul (D-NY) delivered remarks on her continued refusal to sign a state budget until discovery laws are reformed.
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00:00Good morning everyone. I just wrapped up a meeting with the individuals you see
00:06here, people that are not unfamiliar to you, and I want to thank first of all our
00:09Sheriff Figueroa who I've known for many many years for welcoming us here today
00:14and sharing his thoughts with me. And Manny Negi, our district attorney, doing a
00:19great job and gave me some of the insights into the challenges that he and
00:23his team are facing, the volume of work, the number of hours that his staff are
00:29putting in and just the frustration with the current laws as they stand. I also
00:33want to thank Bea Hanson, our director of Office of Victim Services, who you'll be
00:37hearing from shortly as well, to tell you from the victim's point of view why the
00:41fight we're in is so incredibly important. These individuals dedicate their lives to
00:47keeping New Yorkers safe and unfortunately too often their efforts are being
00:52undermined by loopholes in our laws as written. Over and over again they
00:57meticulously investigate crimes, they make arrests, they turn over vast amounts of
01:02evidence, often to only have these charges thrown out and the defendants walk
01:08free over minor technicalities. This isn't just demoralizing for law
01:12enforcement, it's traumatizing for the victims, those whose suffering is just
01:17compounded by inexplicably denied justice. This has to end. That's why I will
01:26continue to refuse to sign on to any budget deal that does not include these
01:31way to fix these fatal flaws in our laws and to just put us on the right track
01:37again. And let me explain how we arrived at this crisis point. In 2019 there was a
01:42major effort to reform our discovery laws. The intentions were good. It was
01:47important to step up at the time and recognize that the system was totally
01:51skewed toward the sides of the prosecution. That there were defendants
01:55left languishing in jails waiting for so long to finally have their cases brought.
02:00That in itself was an injustice. And I want to make sure that the changes we're
02:05talking about here, we're not trying to undo those. We're trying to acknowledge that
02:09there have been problems created that end up in too many dismissals, narrowing down
02:14our focus. And the changes we're talking about, the changes that happened then,
02:19ensured that piles of evidence are just not dropped on district attorneys on the
02:23eve of the trial. And that no one languishes waiting for the day in court.
02:26That was what was behind those. Because anyone charged with a crime does deserve to
02:31know their evidence against them and certainly deserves a speedy trial. That's
02:35important to all of us. It's a New York value. We can all agree on that. Like I
02:40said, the pendulum has swung too far. And the unintended consequences for victims
02:46particularly have been devastating. And right now, that doesn't just require the
02:52prosecutors to turn over relevant evidence. Anything remotely related to
02:56the case must also be turned over. Now, think about that. That doesn't happen. You
03:02turn over something even remotely related to the case. The entire case, no matter how
03:06strong it is, no matter how much work went into it, how convincing it is, the entire
03:11case can be thrown out. And that's regardless of the weight of the evidence. It's
03:16regardless of the severity of the crime. And this broad standard has become a
03:21procedural minefield. So prosecutors can easily miss some random detail that has
03:26no impact on the defense. Or submitted something a day late because they're
03:30waiting for some document to be created. And guess what happens? A violent criminal can
03:35walk free. And for these reasons, dismissals in our state statewide have
03:41jumped from about 10,000 dismissals in 2019 to almost 50,000 in 2024. The only
03:48difference? The change in the laws. Think about all those people. Every one of them
03:52has a victim. Someone who walks out of court and says, what happened? I thought we
03:58were going to go to court. I thought I was probably going to get justice. And they
04:02walk out the door. But so does the accused. They walk out without consequences. So
04:07this extraordinary uptick and cuts across every criminal category from
04:11drunk driving to domestic abuse cases. 94% of domestic abuse cases are dismissed
04:17all the way up to attempted murder. In one case, this is really heartbreaking. A man
04:23was charged with an attempted murder of a teenage boy. And prosecutors had thought
04:28they submitted all the police body cam videos. It turned out there was one clip
04:32inadvertently left out. What was on this piece of evidence? It was the EMTs
04:38wheeling the boy out on a stretcher. That's all that was missing. Everything
04:42else was built. It was a strong case. Certainly that would not be considered
04:47case-altering footage. It was not harmful to the defense. Everyone knew this person was
04:52injured and went to the hospital. But because of this minor oversight, guess what
04:58happened? The entire case was dismissed. Today that boy is still sitting in a
05:04hospital, badly disabled. Meanwhile, the man who put him there walked out free. In
05:11another case, a serial drunk driver was charged with crashing his motorcycle into
05:15someone else while he was under the influence. But the case in that one, the
05:20case was dismissed because one of the arresting officers had once accidentally hit a
05:25garbage can with his patrol car. And that wasn't turned over in time. And that happened six
05:31years before the arrest. I'm not making this up. Because the prosecutors didn't think to disclose
05:39this irrelevant detail, that drunk driver is back driving on our roads. We don't want
05:47this anymore. We don't want this. Unrepentant criminals making a mockery of our justice system.
05:55So listen, I don't just make record investments in law enforcement. I really have. I've put a lot of
06:00money into our DA's offices, understanding the challenges, the weight of the burdens they're
06:03weighing under. I think over $200 million. We have been doing an extraordinary job trying to help on the
06:09financial side. But it's just a shame to see all this solid police work to go to waste or watch people
06:15walk free. And all I'm asking for is support from the legislature for common sense reforms that'll hold
06:22criminals accountable and keep our communities safe, but also give defendants their due. We're
06:27not taking that away. My intent is to uphold the original premise behind the reforms back in 2019.
06:35But we also want to prevent entire cases from being dismissed if a discovery error is not harmful to
06:42the defense. So our budget negotiations have stretched out. You've heard all about it.
06:49I refuse to back down. I know there's thousands of people across the state are counting me to hold
06:54strong on this. And fortunately, we passed the budget extenders. There's no money. It's not in
07:02Washington where everything shuts down. Everything's still fine. You didn't notice it, right?
07:06And I've yet to hear anyone come up to me. And I go to grocery stores. I walk through. I go to diners.
07:11Not one person has ever come up to me and says, oh my god, governor, the budget's late. Right?
07:17They say, thanks for fighting for us. Thanks for standing up. Thanks for doing what you're doing.
07:22And I know there's a lot of people appreciate it. I may never see them personally, but they want someone
07:28who's willing to stand up and say, that is wrong. We must fix it. And I'm not changing. I'm not signing
07:34the budget until we get it done. And so we'll get that done. I'll put in addition to that public safety
07:40initiative on top of the bail reforms we've had over the last few years and our laws against retail
07:46theft and closing down illegal cannabis shops. We've done a lot, but every one of them had to be done in
07:50the budget because the legislature was not doing it on their own. But I'm also trying to focus on
07:56affordability while I'm at it. I don't need to tell you. Word of caution, do not go out looking
08:03for eggs before Easter. Your jaw will drop at how expensive everything has become. You know,
08:09inflation's been so hard on New Yorkers. And now we have the tariffs and the impact of that and the
08:13uncertainty with 401 s. Everybody's heads to spinning. But I want to work hard for you by putting more
08:20money back in your pockets. And I have a plan. It's in the budget. And I have a middle class tax cut.
08:25I want to get enacted. I want to have an inflation refund to put more money back in people's pockets.
08:31If you have little children helping you with the cost. I'm a grandma. I'm a mom. I know how expensive
08:35it is when the kids are little. Put $1,000 back in the pockets of people with little kids.
08:40Free school lunches and breakfast. I mean, this is going to save money for parents.
08:45So we're going to do this. And I've calculated to put about $5,000 back in New Yorkers' pockets.
08:51You know why we need to do that soon? Because they're saying that the cost of the tariffs
08:56can result in about $3,000 to $6,000 coming out of your pockets. Everything costing more.
09:01So I want to get back. I want to go up to Albany. I'm heading up there. I want to get this done
09:05over the finish line. But we're going to get the discovery forms done as well.
09:10So we can all agree on this. Are you with me on this? Does this make a lot of sense? And so I need
09:15to get up there. You need to support this so we can finish the job and spread the word about what
09:21we're fighting for. Call your representatives. Let them know that this is common sense. The governor's
09:26got a plan. It's not to roll back the reforms that were so important for our justice system,
09:31because I believe in this, but also to say it's gone too far. Let's find that place where we can finally
09:37all agree this is finally justice in New York. So no more throwing out these cases. No more making
09:45victims walk out sometimes in tears. I heard stories of victims of domestic violence in New York City
09:50yesterday. And they just walked out and says, I came up here. I bared my soul. I told everything
09:56about something that horrible that happened to me. And I go to the police office. And I have to repeat
10:00the story again for district attorneys. And I have to wait for months. I have to find all this
10:03information receipts and phone logs. And I finally do all this. And my abuser walks out. I don't have
10:11an order of protection anymore. I'm vulnerable. My kids and I are scared. I mean, my friends,
10:17this is New York. We can't let this happen anymore. These people need our help. Let's get this done.
10:23Thank you very much. Thank you.
10:30With that, I'd like to call up and get some reflections from our great Sheriff Juan Figueroza,
10:34and who's going to tell us the impact of these laws are having on the Sheriff's Office. Thank you,
10:38Sheriff. Thank you, Governor. Thank you so much.
10:45Well, good afternoon, everyone. I want to thank the governor from her busy schedule to come down here
10:50to Ulster County and discuss such an important issue in the criminal justice system. I want to
10:55acknowledge a lot of our community leaders, our chief of the city of Kingston, and our legislative
11:00leaders that are here today as well, because this is a team effort. And so I want to thank you all for
11:05for being here. I know what it's like to be a person of color, to be a poor person.
11:12I know what it's like when people go to court and it was unfair. In 37 years, I've seen it.
11:23The legislature, our assembly and senate, their intent was good to change the discovery. But that's not
11:31what we're talking about here. We're talking about adjusting things that went a little too far,
11:36the unintended consequences. In a rural county like Ulster County, like most of New York is,
11:43we have a lot of issues with part-time police departments that can't get the information in
11:48time for the DA's office to certify their discovery, which may cause a case to be dismissed. It's happened.
11:57Discovery, I'm fortunate and lucky to have a great legislature. We're able to get a discovery
12:01coordinator to do all the discovery for the Sheriff's Office. But that's not the case in a lot of the
12:06local police departments. And that certification has to be done by the District Attorney's Office
12:12in order to prosecute cases. Speaking of cases, pertinent cases, important cases,
12:18egregious cases that occur in this county. There have been many times where we submit subpoenas to get
12:26information, whether it's on technology, submit warrants to get information. That takes months.
12:34So the DA's office is unable to certify, you know, their discovery to the defense.
12:43The governor's not saying do away with discovery. That's not what she's saying. She's saying,
12:48let's look at it and think of just some of the cases she spoke about and all the cases that we have
12:54ran into locally here in Ulster County, as well as the rural counties in the state of New York,
13:01and the issues without resources that we can't really work toward. It's unfair to the victims. What
13:07about the victims? The victims of these crimes? So that's why I'm in support of amending this. And I'm
13:16in support of the governor. And thank you, governor. I'd like to introduce the next speaker, our District Attorney, Emanuel Neji.
13:30Governor, thank you for your proposal. And thank you for coming to our community.
13:35All our legislators who are here, police and law enforcement people, and members of the community
13:44who have taken the time to be here. This is a very important issue. I'm sure some of you may already know
13:51about one of the most celebrated and difficult cases in Ulster County by the name of Raymond Snyder.
13:58Raymond Snyder was a murder case. In this county, that because of discovery shenanigans,
14:10there had to be additional lawsuits to resolve the case. Eventually, he went to Albany on a Article 78 proceeding.
14:18We won that case in Albany, came back, tried it, and Raymond Snyder was convicted for murder.
14:24Imagine how long it took for the victim's family dealing with that stress over and over. And by the way,
14:33it's not just one case. Each assistant DA in my office has about 60 cases or more. You are required, before you can
14:44certify that you have complied with discovery, you are required to review all the evidence in the case.
14:54Sometimes you have 20 to 60, over 100 videos that you have to review. Each video perhaps has
15:035, 10, 12, 20 hours that you have to review. How do you get through that?
15:11Within the short time, 24 hours in a day. The complications and difficulties that these present to us
15:18are being exploited. Being exploited by the gamesmanship that happens in the courtroom.
15:30I wholeheartedly support the governor's proposal because it makes things easier. It makes things
15:36easier to get done and to get justice for every victim, every defendant, and for our community.
15:44Imagine, during the whole time that we are fighting the discovery issues in court, a defendant's case is
15:52languishing. It continues to wait. Instead of taking about 10 months to 12 months to resolve,
16:02it ends up taking a year and a half, two years before you get to trial. That's unnecessary. And the
16:09governor's proposals, the reforms that she has, the amendments she has proposed to the reforms, are
16:16necessary to make this fairer and make it work for all, for justice for all. Thank you for coming.
16:28Yes, my friend Chris Liberati Conant, the DA from Columbia County, please.
16:34Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you Governor. Again, thank you District Attorney Neji,
16:43and thank you Governor. It's an honor to stand here with you today, fighting for this extremely
16:48important reform for our discovery laws. Now, as you heard, my name is Chris Liberati Conant. I am
16:55district attorney across the river in Columbia County. But I didn't start my career as a district attorney or
17:01a prosecutor. I started my career with mental hygiene legal service, fighting for indigent rights,
17:07defending indigent defendants. I care very deeply about the rights of defendants and protecting their
17:14rights. And that's why I do support the heart of the 2019 discovery reforms. The idea, as the governor
17:22said, that the defendants should have access to all the information in the file, that they should see
17:26the evidence before them and against them. Of course, our files are open to the defense,
17:32and that is not something that is changing under the governor's proposed reforms. They will still have
17:37access to that same information they have now. And what is not happening anymore that the governor
17:43averted to is defendants aren't being presented with a giant stack of papers right before trial or
17:49during trial. They're not getting sandbagged. What's happening now is my office, prosecutor's offices
17:56across the state, are getting sandbagged at every single trial by delayed and frivolous discovery motions.
18:05And I have an office of eight attorneys, eight assistant district attorneys. We have hundreds of
18:10felonies and thousands of misdemeanors to prosecute every year. And we are being burdened by this,
18:17the way the discovery law exists right now. So we're just asking for two really big things here.
18:24As the governor said, cases should not be dismissed if there's no prejudice to the defendant.
18:30That's simple. That's straightforward. The other thing is the defense should not be permitted
18:36to wait and wait and wait for six months for 18 months and wait to make a motion on the eve of trial
18:43to try to get their cases dismissed on a technicality. And I say again, this is happening
18:48over and over in every single trial we have. It's not efficient, it's a waste of our resources,
18:54and it puts crime victims at risk. It puts public safety at risk. So, you know, I've been in my career,
19:03I've been in addition to working in public defense, I've been an assistant attorney general,
19:07an assistant solicitor general for the state of New York. I've been a judicial law clerk for a trial
19:12court judge and for the highest court in the state. I am so proud to stand behind the governor's proposal
19:19because it's thoughtful, it's well reasoned, and it is fair to everybody in this state. And so,
19:25and everybody in this system. And so I just implore our legislatures to please stand with the governor
19:32on this issue and make this system fair for everybody. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. District
19:44Attorney, especially with your vast experience seeing both sides of the criminal justice system
19:50and still standing for these reforms to show that they're so necessary. I also want to recognize now
19:55our Director of Office of Victim Services, Bea Hansen, is doing an extraordinary job putting
19:59your heart and soul into her work every single day on behalf of the victims of New York. Bea.
20:04Thank you. Thank you, Governor.
20:10Thank you. So I've spent about the last 30 years working in victim services either at a non-profit
20:15organization or in government agencies. And I have never seen leadership like Governor Hochul's leadership
20:21in terms of supporting victims of crime and violence. And one of the one of the things that we've seen
20:28that is in her executive budget that she's really dedicated funding to serve to serving victims.
20:34And I think without any changes in discovery, it's really tough to be able to do that kind of work.
20:39We have, thanks to the governor, we've awarded an unprecedented amount of money, almost 380 million
20:45dollars over the next three years to support victim service organizations. And some of those victims
20:52want to go through the criminal justice system, some don't. But for those who want to go through the
20:56criminal justice system, we need to make that work. And so the discovery reform is really, really
21:01critical to be able to make those things work for those survivors who want to go through the system.
21:06We've been traveling around the state, talking to many different folks in different communities from
21:11rural to suburban to urban areas. And the one message I hear is just the impact of the discovery right
21:19now and the need for the changes, because without anything having to do with the case, cases are
21:24dropped. And think about what impact that has on survivors. I've heard from survivors of domestic violence,
21:30survivors of sexual assault, who it's not about, you know, usually what happens is the case would be,
21:36we can't prosecute it, we don't have enough evidence. That's hard enough for a victim to be able to
21:40address and to be able to deal with. But to know that the only reason that the case was dropped is because
21:46somebody didn't have a piece of paper, and it was a duplicate copy of some kind of piece of paper,
21:51or we didn't get the paper that we needed from the hospital, we didn't have any knowledge of it,
21:56but we find out about it too late. That just has to stop and isn't fair. And so I just want to thank
22:01the governor and thank all of you for all of your support. We need to get this done. So let's get this
22:06done. Thank you.
22:11Well, thank you all for joining us. I really appreciate the unified voice that's coming out
22:19of our rural communities. We've been spending a lot of time in the city, but also the DAs up here
22:24work so hard in the sheriff's offices, and I just want to let them and their teams know how grateful
22:28we are. I also think, are we joined by Morgan Bitton, the executive director of our district attorney
22:32associate? Morgan, thank you very much for your advocacy and representation of all the district
22:37attorneys. They're very diverse from every corner of the state. I know most of them,
22:41but thank you all for your work here today. Thank you for joining us.
22:47Thank you, everyone.