Hollandia nehéz megbeszélésekre készül a védelmi kiadások megduplázásáról az elkövetkező években, mondta Ruben Brekelmans holland védelmi miniszter az Euronewsnak.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00with huge pressure coming from the United States for Europe and Canada to take much more
00:12responsibility at NATO in particular when it comes to Ukraine for the Europe conversation
00:17I catch up with Dutch defense minister Ruben Bretelmans he tells me that the United States
00:22will no longer chair the Ukraine defense contact group and also how the Netherlands will have to
00:27have some serious conversations about increasing their spending on defense
00:31Ruben Bretelmans minister for defense for the Netherlands thank you very much for joining us
00:37on the Europe conversation thank you now we're here at NATO for the Ukraine defense contact group
00:42meeting this was always chaired exclusively by the United States but now it's being chaired by the UK
00:48and Germany has the US permanently walked off the pitch when it comes to this is it going to be
00:54consistently only European led because that is a symbolic as well as a practical change it has
01:00been taken over the championship has been taken over by Germany and the UK I think it's very important
01:05that we all decided to continue the UDCG the Rammstein group a a corporation of more than 50 countries to
01:13support Ukraine I think it's also important that the United States remains involved so today
01:19virtually Pete Hex said the American Secretary of Defense was also joining and also sharing how the United States
01:26is keeping keep supporting Ukraine but you're not concerned that the US is no longer sharing that the United States
01:32has clearly stated also today that they remain commitment remain committed in their support to Ukraine that they
01:38keep delivering what they promised I think that's that's the most important thing I think it's good that two of the
01:43the two of the leading nations the UK and Germany have taken over this this leading role also when it comes to the UDCG and yet as Steve
01:50and yet as Steve Witkoff the United States envoy or negotiator is in the Kremlin today while Pete Hegseth was online we also see the US putting much more pressure on the Ukraine when it comes to
02:01Ukraine when it comes to concessions during these peace negotiations what's your own interpretation of this setup
02:08we see a lot more reluctance from the Russian side to compromise and to talk seriously so I think it is good that also more pressure is put on Russia because they need to compromise to a larger extent I would say but they need to compromise much more than they are currently doing I think what's also very important is that we continue the support Ukraine that we step up our efforts
02:28I was in Dnipro myself 10 days ago I saw it was the morning after a big air attack I saw the impact with my own eyes also spoke to some of the generals there who are leading the Easter group of Ukrainian forces and they were telling us that the fighting is more intense than ever and that Ukraine needs more and more support in order to be able to hold the line and I think we need to do that because not only it's saving Ukrainian lives but also if the position at the battlefield
02:57the battlefield becomes stronger then also the position of Ukraine becomes stronger at the negotiation table and if the outlook for Ukraine improves and of Russia deteriorates then of course Russia would also be pressured more to compromise and I think that's important.
03:10Do you think any pressure has been put on Russia so far though?
03:14It's hard for me to say because I'm not sitting there at the negotiation table I don't know what the Americans are telling Russia exactly I think it's very important that we keep the sanctions in place that we also expand
03:26the number of sanctions but also strengthen the functioning of the sanctions because we now see that those sanctions are circumvented so we should do much more also on this to make sure that those sanctions are more effective.
03:44But of course there are more ways in which pressure could be put on Russia.
03:49I'm always in favour of that for example also looking at opportunities to use the Russian frozen assets to support Ukraine more because that would put both pressure on Russia and also help to support Ukraine.
04:02Do you think Belgium or other countries are any closer to agreeing to that?
04:07Of course there are some legal hesitations there are also some other considerations.
04:12I think it is important that we keep looking creatively at opportunities in order to use those frozen assets and as I said it is important because we need this continuous flow of military support to Ukraine.
04:24Because obviously the Netherlands has been a huge supporter of Ukraine with F-16s from a humanitarian perspective from a legal perspective in terms of investigations into international humanitarian law breaches.
04:34But looking at your own government there is a bit of a split.
04:38There was a 3.5 billion euro discussion between the government and the parliament and one of your political partners Geert Wilders was against supplying more money to Ukraine.
04:50Can you tell us a little bit about the situation that you find yourselves now in as a Dutch government with somebody, a senior partner, really against supporting Ukraine and how will that fare in the long term?
05:03So we, of course, in the Netherlands we have a coalition with four parties and we created a coalition agreement.
05:09It took quite a long time in order to get there.
05:11But what we agreed upon is very clear that our support to Ukraine is unwavering in any dimension, also in the military support.
05:18So over the last few years our support has been 3.5 billion on average.
05:23And that's why we also decided that we will spend another 3.5 billion next year and that we will accelerate and front load that support so that we can already spend 2 billion of this this year.
05:34Will the Netherlands have to maybe take money from elsewhere, other social services, health, education, housing and so on to continue to pay for this, particularly at a time of such global instability when it comes to economics and finances throughout the world?
05:48If so, if we want to spend our increase our defense budget by to a large extent.
05:56So, of course, there's now a discussion about increasing the NATO goal and it's about serious numbers.
06:03So in the Netherlands we are around 2% now, that's what's in our budget.
06:06And if we grow to a much larger percentage, of course, agreeing on that in itself is not a difficult part, but how to fund that, how to finance that.
06:14And that will require political decisions that are difficult.
06:17There are three options in theory.
06:19You either raise taxes, you cut spending or you raise your debt level.
06:22And those are all three are difficult political discussions.
06:25We are having some of those discussions now in the Netherlands, but that's only for next year.
06:31For us, an important moment is going to be the NATO summit in the Hague in our country for the first time in history.
06:37With the 32 countries, we need to agree upon a new NATO defense investment pledge, a new percentage.
06:44What would you think is the best option?
06:46Do you think that maybe this financial mechanism within the coalition of the Willing might be something that the Netherlands could borrow off?
06:52Or do you think money should come from taxes?
06:54Because obviously the Americans are saying 5%.
06:57Maybe it'll come down to 3.54%, but it's still more than double what you're paying already.
07:02What would your preference be?
07:04So I think it is important that in every country, whether it's any NATO member, NATO ally or any EU member, every country needs to have this political discussion.
07:15So if we want to increase our defense spending, what type of political choices need to be made in order to fund that?
07:21And that's not easy for any of us.
07:23But we all need to have this national discussions also in the Netherlands.
07:27And for me, it's hard to predict what comes out of it.
07:30And of course, there are EU instruments that can support in this.
07:35But the lion's share of this should take place on a national level.
07:39Do we know any more in relation to this potential reassurance force or peacekeeping force or whatever that might look like after your meetings with the coalition of the Willing?
07:50Obviously, I know the Netherlands would be involved in it in some way, but do we know what it might look like and whether Europe could be there for a backstop to support Ukraine with the absence of the United States?
08:02So I think the military planning has taken place over the last few weeks.
08:07So it's now becoming more clear how a potential European involvement can look like.
08:11But what we do still see is that, you know, the coalition of the Willing consists of around 30 countries and different countries still have different interpretations on how such a military engagement should look like, what the objective is, what the mandate should be, how it would relate to a potential monitoring mission, which is something separate, but should take place at the front line.
08:34Could it happen without the security guarantees of the United States? Could the could Europe and the coalition of the Willing and other countries stand in for Ukraine in a way that Ukraine has been failed for so many times?
08:46We need to have the United States on board in the sense that they are playing a central role now in the negotiations.
08:51They are playing a key role when it comes to European security and also, of course, when it comes to the support of Ukraine.
08:58So they need to be on board in some way.
09:01I think what we should do now is make sure that we have a clear plan that European countries can also say, OK, this is what we can bring to the table and then specifically have the conversation with the United States on what their role is going to be.
09:14But it's too early still to say more details about this because there are still many different ways in which the United States can be involved.
09:21The Netherlands is trying to boost its military or expand its military.
09:24And you sent out this questionnaire to 18 to 27 year olds.
09:28What are you trying to achieve by sending out a questionnaire to young people about potentially joining the military?
09:34What would be the objective here?
09:35The objective would be to have people think about whether they would be interested to join the military or whether they would do a, as we call it, a service year.
09:44So it's a one year in which young people can get to know our military and after that one year they can decide whether they want to join or whether they want to become a reservist or whether they want to do something else.
09:54All options are still open. We don't want to have any subscription. That's not what we are going to do. We want to keep it voluntary.
10:02But it's a way to have young people think about, you know, whether defence and whether the military would be something for them.
10:08But it's a seismic moment, isn't it, that you're doing that?
10:10So we need to grow in terms of budgets. Of course, we are growing, but we also need to grow in terms of the material that we procure, but also in the number of people.
10:19We have currently around 75,000 people working for our Ministry for Defence. We need to grow towards 100,000. And on top of that, we want to have much more flexibility.
10:31So we need up to another 100,000 more, mostly reservists, to make sure that if tensions arise, that we will be able to mobilise more people in order to support our military.
10:43Do we know much about America's plans to potentially reduce the troop size in Europe from 100,000 to potentially 50,000 or somewhere in between?
10:52So far, they haven't announced any reduction. The US is committed to NATO, also when it comes to Article 5. They very clearly state that.
10:59But they also said that Europe should do much more, that it's not about burden sharing anymore, but about burden shifting.
11:05And what I see is a great willingness among European countries, including the Netherlands, to step up our efforts.
11:10And if then the United States over time decides to reallocate some of its resources to their own region, for their homeland defence or to the Indo-Pacific or anywhere else,
11:22I think the most important thing is that we do this together and that we create a shared plan in which they are able maybe to shift some of their resources to other parts of the world.
11:32And we, as European countries, can gradually take over some of those resources. But we need to keep the United States on board.
11:39They will remain essential to our security. But I think it's also in the interest of the United States to keep NATO strong.
11:46And that's also what they always state.
11:48Okay. Ruben Bretlemans, Minister of Defence for the Netherlands, thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.
11:53You're welcome.