Political parties, especially the BJP and the Congress, are often seen fighting for one-upmanship to claim the legacy of Dr Bhimrao Ambedkar, the father of India's Constitution and the Dalit icon.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary. Let me quickly take you through the headlines.
00:08Fugitive Mehul Choksi arrested in Belgium stopped from fleeing to Switzerland.
00:13Authorities seek Choksi extradition to India in PNB scam case.
00:21Residents return to Bengal's Murshidabad as tense calm prevails.
00:25Bengal police finds PFI linked to violence plea filed in Supreme Court over Bengal law and order situation.
00:35Prime Minister Modi takes on Waqf land mafia, says land looted in name of Waqf.
00:40PM slams oppositions as Congress spreads vote bank virus over the issue.
00:45Political war over Karnataka caste survey.
01:01political war over Karnataka
01:13cost survey Prime Minister Modi
01:14attacks Karnataka Muslim quota
01:16Modi says Congress snatched OBC
01:18quota for Muslims Karnataka
01:20government meet on cost survey on
01:22April the 17th
01:23Prime Minister Modi also hailed
01:32Sankaran Nair who dared British after
01:34Jallianwala Bagh massacre slams Congress
01:37has party abandoned a brave nationalist
01:39Salman Khan receives fresh death threats
01:47unidentified person threatened to plant a
01:50bomb in the actor's vehicle Mumbai police
01:52register case
01:53all right so this one's to watch out for
02:06Blue Origin is all set to launch a star
02:09studded crew and all women crew on space
02:12tourism rocket all six passengers on
02:15today's flight Lauren Sanchez Katy Perry
02:17Amanda Nguyen Gail King Aisha Bao and
02:21Carrie-Anne Flynn have strapped into their
02:243.8-meter-wide New Shepard capsule the
02:28sub-orbital journey is expected to last
02:31about 11 minutes taking the crew to the
02:34edge of space before returning
02:36dubbed NS31 the flight is part of Blue
02:39Origins ongoing space tourism program and is
02:42intended to create a lasting impact that
02:45will inspire generations to come during the
02:47flight the crew will experience a brief
02:49period of weightlessness lasting about four
02:52minutes allowing them to float inside the
02:54capsule and take in views of earth and
02:57space through its large windows the capsule
03:00will then return to earth aided by three
03:02parachutes to ensure a safe landing this is one of our traditions all astronauts
03:09throughout this it's it's more than a team it's
03:11almost like a family we are so tight to go through something as intense
03:16this is
03:18this is one of our so far from this control
03:23everything is
03:25various programs have had their traditions
03:28for us we always want full of discussion
03:31points on
03:33so in a moment here we'll see those what they call the big checks the built-in test checks as you mentioned Kristen inside the capsule you know this is like a bridled beast this this this thing wants to take off
03:40switch to onboard helium here we go good luck and godspeed ladies we're cheering you on from
04:10let's launch this termination system is armed
04:15t-minus 22 seconds and counting
04:1718
04:2115
04:22committee to internal
04:24p-minus 10
04:279
04:288
04:297
04:306
04:315
04:324
04:33command engine start
04:352
04:361
04:37ignition
04:47New Shepard has cleared the tower.
05:17New Shepard has cleared the tower.
05:23Begin throttle down for Q limiting.
05:27Engine response looks good.
05:41Max Q, maximum dynamic pressure.
05:47Mach 1, vehicle is supersonic.
05:53Engine back up to full throttle.
05:55We have passed through Max Q, maximum dynamic pressure.
05:59That's when the vehicle, the stresses between the atmosphere and the speed are at the maximum.
06:04So to punch through that is so important.
06:07You see the BA-3 engines.
06:09It's firing beautifully.
06:11You see the stream of steam behind it.
06:15Those ladies right now are having an incredible view on their way to space.
06:21Passing through 80,000 feet, 1,300 miles per hour.
06:27You're going to peak at about 2,300 miles an hour over Mach 3, three times the speed of sound.
06:33Shortly coming up, we'll have MECO main engine cut off.
06:41We will turn off the engine.
06:43But the two craft, the capsule and the booster will continue their ascent to space.
06:49Stand by MECO.
06:51Stand by MECO.
06:53Stand by MECO.
06:55Stand by MECO.
06:57Stand by MECO.
06:59Stand by MECO.
07:01Stand by separation.
07:03Stand by separation.
07:05Okay, that suits up the up.
07:07And the main engine.
07:08The main engine is turned off.
07:09We're now going to separate the capsule from the booster at that point.
07:10Kristen,
07:11that's when all six astronauts are going to start to feel the weightlessness.
07:15And shortly thereafter, we're going to let them unbuckle.
07:18Separation needs confirmed.
07:20And that right there is the most critical milestone of this whole ascent.
07:27Oprah watching her best friend go to space.
07:50And the two craft is separated, 328,000 feet, 100 kilometers, welcome to space ladies or
08:16shall I say astronauts.
08:20The moon, you guys, I will have to tell you, look at the moon, look, oh my god, oh my god,
08:27that's our pink moon.
08:29I love you, you're giving me space.
08:36And just in case it wasn't clear, those are the astronauts, those are their voices that
08:41you're hearing.
08:42And there, they have hit apogee, the highest point in flight, well over 345,000 feet, well
08:54over the common line.
08:57Wow.
09:06And at this moment the astronauts have unstrapped from their seats, they are floating, they are
09:11weightless, they are experiencing zero G for the very first time in their lives.
09:19And Katy Perry did say that she was going to sing in space.
09:22I'm waiting for it.
09:23I'm waiting for it.
09:24One minute warning.
09:26One minute warning.
09:28So that is Capcom indicating a one minute warning for our astronauts to take in those last
09:33views before they get buckled back into their seats.
09:41phosphor.
09:58All right viewers, those visuals coming through, where this all-women crew with Katy Perry on
10:02Perry on board, practically edging history right now.
10:07Blasting to the edge of space, these breathtaking visuals.
10:13It's an 11-minute space odyssey.
10:15Let's dip in to the live commentary that is coming in.
10:19Just about any time now, the space capsule by Blue Origins will be making its way back onto the Earth's surface.
10:27Going all the way to the edge of space, which is the internationally recognized boundary of space.
10:34Lasting about 11 minutes, the flight will bring all the passengers now, called the astronauts, back to the surface of the Earth.
10:51Let's listen in to the live commentary.
10:57There's two miles north of where it's taken off from at the top of the rocket.
11:02You see a couple of fins that are popped out.
11:05Those are to stabilize the rocket as it comes in to land.
11:09Shortly thereafter, you will see the drag brakes that deploy.
11:13That will cut the speed of the rocket in half.
11:17And then in the last moment, we've got...
11:19And there it is. We can see it from the stage.
11:20There comes the rocket down. It's going to relight its engine.
11:24We can also see a sonic boom. We're going to hear that shortly here.
11:28And remember, this is something that had never been done before until just a few years ago.
11:35Truly the stuff of science fiction that you're about to watch in just seconds.
11:42Drag brakes.
11:43Here we go.
11:43And booster touchdown.
12:12Welcome home, New Shepard.
12:18Picture perfect landing right there.
12:20Picture perfect landing.
12:22Right on target.
12:23You see that dust kind of creates this dramatic cloud that reveals the beautiful rocket that has just taken these ladies up to space and back.
12:32And I love the echo across the mountains. Is that what I was hearing there?
12:36That's what you were hearing. You heard the sonic boom. Then you heard the engine relight. And all of that reverberates in this big, beautiful valley in West Texas.
12:45All right, shortly here. We're waiting to see the drogue parachutes deploy from the crew capsule. Those are like the guide parachutes.
13:00There are the drogue parachutes. Just free-falling right there until those drogues came out.
13:05And then next will be the main parachutes that get pulled out.
13:10Do you hear that screaming inside the capsule?
13:16And all three parachutes reefing and they will slowly inflate, slowing the capsule to a nice, smooth 10, 15 miles an hour.
13:29And now they are cruising back home.
13:33Three good parachutes.
13:40And I tell you, Kristen, from having gone through all of the simulations, going through all, I have gone through all of the training.
13:48They put you in the capsule that simulates all of this, including the sounds.
13:51And when you hear the mortars of the parachutes pop out, that is the best moment in flight.
13:57Because, I know, Blue Origin does everything they can to make this as safe as possible, as safe as possible.
14:04And you'll have an impeccable safety record.
14:06But it still has to feel really good when you know that you're coming back to Earth with those parachutes fully deployed.
14:13And we can see the capsule just over our shoulder here, going to be landing north and east of the launch pad, coming down softly and beautifully.
14:31And you will see a puff of smoke when it touches down, a puff of dust.
14:46That should be, yes, normal.
14:48A puff of dust, last milliseconds, air cushion that will kick up the dust.
14:53It's a very soft, soft landing, despite the sporty perception.
14:58There it is.
15:11Congratulations and welcome back to Earth.
15:17New status check.
15:20Double shot.
15:21Kristen, just some incredible images there.
15:28The capsule.
15:29Welcome back.
15:30Nice.
15:32Let's wait for us just a moment here.
15:34Make sure they're doing health checks in.
15:39Beautiful.
15:40Yes, and as you heard it there, everybody seemed to be just as ecstatic to be back here, back on Earth.
15:56Everybody appears to be fine.
16:00Beautiful shot there of the capsule down in the desert.
16:03As we were just saying, it looks like a tough landing, but it is an air cushion in the last milliseconds that just makes it even softer.
16:12I will also note the parachutes landed very close to the capsule.
16:17That's just an indication that there's not very much wind out here today.
16:22A beautiful day for a launch and landing.
16:24A beautiful day to add six more names to the roster of astronauts that had been over the Kármán line into space.
16:40What's the view for me?
16:54All right, let's again, let's dip into the live commentary coming in.
17:10We can officially deem them astronauts are going to feel.
17:14I can't wait to get their reaction.
17:15We are headed out there now.
17:17I will check back in with you as soon as I have them.
17:20Sounds good, Carissa.
17:22And as everybody can see, she is, those recovery crews are screaming out there.
17:26So we actually send them out as soon as we spot the capsule.
17:31And there's little Rose, Katie's daughter, who is just seeing her mother go to space and come back.
17:43I'm sure she cannot wait to say hello.
17:46But as I was mentioning, the recovery crew is heading out there.
17:50We send them out as soon as we can see the crew capsule and spot the crew capsule descending.
17:57There will be at least two trucks that go out there.
18:00What you'll see is they will come around the capsule.
18:03We also have crew member seven who's in there.
18:06She will run out, go around to each window, make sure that each astronaut is fine.
18:11And the recovery crews will safe the capsule before we exit the astronauts.
18:19You know, it's hard to pick a favorite moment, right?
18:21Launch, landing, it's all good.
18:23But the moment coming up might be my absolute favorite, right?
18:27It's the moment the recovery team gets out there, then all the friends and family.
18:31And we get to see the astronauts emerge from the capsule.
18:34And we get to hear what they thought from the last, you know, 10 minutes or so that they were up in space.
18:42And I think one of my favorite things that I've ever seen in covering space, certainly with Blue Origin,
18:49was that moment for William Shatner, Captain Kirk, as he emerged from the capsule.
18:55And this is exactly why you want to send people that are not just professional astronauts into space.
19:01What he said was so moving that day.
19:03I 100% agree.
19:05But it's not just the astronauts that are here that are being moved by this event.
19:08We've got Tabitha that's with some of the friends and family out there.
19:12Tabitha, give me an update from the viewing platform.
19:16I mean, not a dry eye in the stand, I tell you right now.
19:21Chloe, I just want to know from your perspective, that moment, what was it like?
19:25I don't think I realized how emotional it was going to be.
19:28And I literally had chills all over my body from the second it launched until the moment I just saw it land.
19:34And it's sort of hard to explain because I don't think you think you would be that emotional.
19:39But it's incredible.
19:41It takes your breath away.
19:42And I feel like I have all this adrenaline and I'm just standing here.
19:45Right?
19:46It's very true.
19:47Same.
19:47It's really—first of all, we're so thrilled that the girls are safe and everything went so well.
19:53And so that's a relief because, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of nerves up there.
19:57But to hear the girls screaming and having such a—
20:01They said they saw the pink moon.
20:03Yeah.
20:03I heard the audio.
20:04I was like, yeah, that is the coolest thing.
20:06It's so exciting.
20:06I cannot wait to get the footage from inside to see that.
20:09I want to hear every, like, little emotion that they had.
20:13And we can't wait to see the footage from inside.
20:14Look, what are the chances?
20:15The pink moon, the rocket launch.
20:17It's so exciting.
20:18It's a great day.
20:19It's been a pretty phenomenal day.
20:21It's been a great morning.
20:22So when are you guys going up is the real question.
20:25Oh, my gosh.
20:26I don't know.
20:27But this made it a little more enticing.
20:30Right.
20:31That's right.
20:31You can go on behalf of the rest of us.
20:34Oh, thank you.
20:34But I think we'd all drag you off of the tarmac before we let you go up.
20:38But, you know, I like you being an observer.
20:41Okay.
20:42Yeah.
20:42Yeah.
20:43We love being able to share this experience with you.
20:45And thank you for sharing how you feel out here with our audience.
20:48So it's been really, really incredible.
20:51So, yeah, the emotions are high because it's so exciting and energizing.
20:56And, gosh, Kristen, Arianne, I don't know what to say.
20:59I did cry.
21:00I did cry.
21:01I didn't think I was going to cry, and I cried.
21:04Tabitha, I love you putting them on the spot there.
21:07Chloe and Chris, are you guys going up?
21:09Keeping up with the Kardashians.
21:12In space.
21:14We're waiting for it.
21:16That's the all-next-all-lady launch.
21:18Well, thank you so much, Tabitha, for that.
21:20And you could see that.
21:21You can hear that.
21:22You can hear from Tabitha.
21:23Even she is emotional and has tears in her eyes.
21:27When you're down here for one of these launches, and Carissa, when we get her back on the line,
21:33I'd love to hear her thoughts on this.
21:35The intensity and the energy and the emotion out here, even though you're in a kind of this remote place,
21:42but it all gathers here in this valley, and it's really intense.
21:47No matter how many times.
21:48I've seen all 31 of our launches.
21:50It gets me every time.
21:51Well, any time somebody says, I don't get it.
21:53What's so exciting about space?
21:55Come to a launch.
21:56Come see a launch in person, and then you'll change your mind.
22:00And, you know, I'm just, as we await the moment where these astronauts emerge from the capsule,
22:05I'm reminded of what William Shatner said on his mission.
22:09He said, what you have given me is the most profound experience I can imagine.
22:13I hope I never recover from this.
22:15And I love that.
22:17You know, I hope I never recover from what I just experienced.
22:21And one of the neat things about this is these women were not in space for several days
22:25where they had time to get acclimated to it.
22:27They only got four precious minutes of weightlessness.
22:30And so that high, that feeling of, ooh, I want more of whatever that was, is still so fresh.
22:37And you really get to see that when they step out of the capsule.
22:40We catch our astronauts.
22:42I mean, their minds are still in the process of being blown when they come out of the capsule.
22:49And Carissa is going to capture those moments for us shortly here after we get our recovery crew.
22:56You see there some of the friends and family have already started lining up there.
23:01While the recovery crew, you've seen some images.
23:04As I mentioned, they're safing some of the systems on the capsule.
23:08We want to release all of the excess air and gas that created that nice air cushion.
23:14We'll remove the parachutes, make sure nothing gets tripped up.
23:18Also, we reuse those parachutes.
23:20And then crew member seven will take the stairs up to the hatch.
23:25It's like a good three and a half-ish feet off the ground.
23:28So it just makes the getting out of the capsule that much more comfortable.
23:35And last but not least, crew member seven will open the hatch.
23:39And we'll get to see one by one as these ladies, these lady astronauts now, exit the capsule.
23:45And a lot of people are probably familiar with seeing, you know, NASA astronauts or Russian cosmonauts emerge from a spacecraft after a long-duration flight on stretchers or, you know, glorified.
23:56They need some assistance because they've been exposed to zero-g for so long.
24:00Not these astronauts.
24:02They're not going to need any assistance.
24:04That's one of the beauties of a suborbital space flight.
24:06You feel great.
24:07You don't have to deal with space sickness, right?
24:09Exactly, exactly.
24:11And that's, you know, to that point, this flight, because you're basically going straight up.
24:17Guys, we're going to go into a quick break.
24:20But history being etched in 14 minutes on your television screens.
24:25We're going to pull away.
24:26I know, I know most of us want to keep ourselves glued to these visuals that are playing out right now in Texas.
24:3314 minutes of history.
24:35You know, if you've picked your jaw off the floor, you've seen that space capsule go up and come down,
24:42just about breaching the international space line, the common line, and coming right back,
24:47where all six astronauts on board did experience zero gravity for about four minutes.
24:53On board, Katy Perry.
24:55Imagine, you know, you went up as a pop star.
24:58You've come down as an astronaut.
25:00And history etched as an all-woman space capsule now going up and coming down.
25:09This is truly spectacular and all in 14 minutes' time.
25:13I know we want to stay glued to these visuals, but we're going to get into a break.
25:16We have a debate to get into.
25:18But spectacular.
25:20Like I said, you know, your mind is practically blown with what has just happened,
25:26all in a matter of 14 minutes there.
25:29Fradhan Mantri Shri Narendra Modi Ji Malayarpan karte huye,
25:34sath-hi hum dek sakte hain, Congress Neta Rahul Gandhi Ji.
25:39Baba Sahib Ambedkar Jayanti.
25:46India celebrates the 135th birth anniversary of Bhim Rao Ramji Ambedkar,
25:55the father of India's constitution.
25:59The central figure of Dalit Azarshan.
26:04A day loaded with social, constitutional and political significance.
26:10And for political parties, the outpouring of tributes was hard to miss.
26:21From pulling out all the stops to pay tribute to Baba Sahib Ambedkar.
26:26The vision of Baba Sahib, the father of India, and his prayer in the Niranthar Vixit, Bhairat,
26:38is showing us the vision of the world.
26:43The BJP and the Congress in a political duel.
27:07Ambedkar Jayamthi became a day of one-upmanship, hurling accusations at each other of disrespecting
27:20Ambedkar's legacy.
27:37UNEH CUNAW HARWANYA, Congress NENU ONESCI YAD TAK MITANE KI KOŞISH KII.
27:49Congress NENU BABA SAHAB KFEI VICHAAROKO BHAI HAMESHAH KELEIAYE KHATPA KERDENA CAHAI.
27:58The BJP shared a dramatized video
28:28to depict how Congress marginalised Dr. Ambedkar after independence and forced him to resign
28:35from Nehru's government.
28:36I know that I have lived in your mind in the past few days, and this is the reason that
28:42you don't want to do in the Mantri Mandel.
28:47The Congress shared a letter by Ambedkar to allege that it was Virsa Varkar who ensured
28:53his defeat in the election.
28:57Dalit identity, Dalit representation, Dalit assertion have all been closely linked to
29:08the legacy of Baba Sahib.
29:11And every political party understands the significance of that in electoral politics.
29:21Every political party invokes him.
29:23BJP builds his statues, Congress quotes his constitution, left invokes his anti-capitalist learnings, regional
29:32parties use his image in caste assertion.
29:35symbolism over substance, the political slugfest to claim Ambedkar's legacy.
29:43Trump focus onto the point this evening.
29:45All right, so our moot question, symbolism over substance when it comes down to claiming Baba
29:53Sahib Ambedkar's legacy.
29:54Let's cut across immediately to our panelists this evening, Dr. Ranjul Avajit, National Spokesperson
29:59Congress, Sanju Verma, National Spokesperson, BJP, Amitabh Diwari, Political Commentator,
30:05Rajat Sethi, Political Commentator, Ashutosh, author and political analyst.
30:10Right at the top, I apologize to all four of you for getting into the debate late, but the
30:15images that were coming in from Texas of the all-women space capsule was far too compelling
30:20to pull away, but we did, but thank you for the patience and waiting for us.
30:26But let's cut across immediately right now.
30:28I want to begin with Amitabh Diwari, and the reason why I begin with you, Amitabh Diwari,
30:32is because Dalit representation, Dalit assertion is important because when it comes down to politics,
30:40Dalit vote has become very important.
30:4317% of, you know, the entire country's population, voting population is Dalit, and that vote counts.
30:50As the last few elections have taught us that lesson.
30:53Yeah, essentially if you see in this election, what happened is that the India block lost
31:01around 5 or gained around 7% of the Dalit votes, whereas the NDA lost 5% and the others
31:08lost 2%.
31:10What has happened is that there is currently a vacuum in the Dalit politics because of the
31:14near decimation of BSP.
31:17BSP used to get 18% to 22% Dalit community votes from 1999 to 2009.
31:24Now the voters of the Dalit community are looking for, I mean some voters are looking for a pan-India
31:29Dalit party, which is not available at this present.
31:34And some of them are then looking for or going out for options like the Azad Samaj party or
31:38a VBA or a RPI and smaller groups like that.
31:42Now, a section is also looking at mainstreaming which is aligning with the party in the power
31:48because they feel that it is beneficial for the development of the community in the long run.
31:54A section also feels that parties like VBA, RPI, etc. have reduced the bargaining power of the Dalit community
32:02because they are not able to win on their own and they act as vote cutters and probably result in
32:08loss of so-called secular parties.
32:12The Maharashtra election was a clear case in point.
32:15The NBA lost 21% Dalit support compared to the Lok Sabha election.
32:20The BJP did not gain anything as per CSDS, but others gained 22% and we know the result.
32:28So, a lot of things are happening.
32:30Both the Congress and the BJP are now looking at this 20% voters who used to back the BSP.
32:37That accounts for roughly 3-4% national vote share and is a key vote share to turn around
32:43any election going hence forward.
32:46And this sub-classification has also brought out some differences within the community
32:51which the parties are trying to exploit.
32:54Alright, so your two minutes are over.
32:55I am going to give two minutes each both to the BJP and the Congress spokesperson.
32:59Let's begin with you Sanju Verma on why do you think that it's lip service from the Congress
33:03when it comes down to the, you know, for honoring Baba Sahib Mbedkar
33:08and it's real intent when it comes down to the BJP.
33:12You know, Preeti, first and foremost, let me start off from where Amitabh left.
33:17Let's not forget the Dalit population in Delhi is a little over 15%.
33:22In Maharashtra, about 14%.
33:24And in Haryana, a solid 21%.
33:27And need I tell your viewers that in Maharashtra, the BJP had a stellar victory.
33:32In Haryana, we came back to power for the third time in a row.
33:35First time in the history of Haryana politics.
33:37And after 27 long years, we won Delhi resoundingly.
33:43So electoral politics, if that is a benchmark of whether Dalit stand with BJP,
33:47then the answer is yes.
33:49Now coming to your pertinent question and a very important one at that.
33:52Don't forget, in 1947, what did Nehru do?
33:58He wrote a letter to Rajkumari Amrit Kaur, the first health minister of independent India,
34:04calling Baba Sahib Mbedkar, a traitor, an anti-national who collaborated with the British.
34:12On the demise of Baba Sahib Mbedkar, the very petty Nehru actually had the gall and the audacity
34:18to write a letter to the then-president, Dr. Rajendra Prasad,
34:23forbidding Rajendra Prasad from attending the last rites of Baba Sahib Mbedkar.
34:29And why did Baba Sahib Mbedkar have to go to the parliament via the Rajya Sabha route
34:35and not via Lok Sabha?
34:36Because on two occasions, Nehru ensured the defeat in Lok Sabha of Baba Sahib Mbedkar.
34:42Do you know something, Preeti?
34:44Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi and Pandit Nehru,
34:48together their memorials are close to 115 acres worth 60,000 crores in the heart of Delhi.
34:56But Baba Sahib Mbedkar ke liye,
34:58do bhitga zameen tak nahi letai Congress.
35:01Today, thanks to Prime Minister Modi and Devendra Fundavis,
35:04we are erecting the iconic statue of Baba Sahib Mbedkar at 450 feet tall at Indu Mills compound.
35:12That is what the BJP is doing, which Congress failed to do.
35:15Mamir, two minutes are over. I'll circle back to you.
35:18Allow me to bring in the Congress spokesperson because, you know, that's what we said.
35:21The BJP is building statues.
35:22The Congress has the constitution in hand.
35:24Which of the two have really intent is the big question.
35:27And Dr. Anshul Abhijit, to bring you in on this,
35:30your two minutes, sir, on, you know, the same question I asked Sanju Verma.
35:36Lip service for the BJP, real intent, where the Congress comes from,
35:39what makes you think so?
35:42Well, what is real intent?
35:43I mean, if this program and today's date becomes a site for understanding
35:48the nature of social injustice and historical discrimination,
35:52then I think it's hugely instructive.
35:53I mean, you know, usually, Preeti, I'm very, very unsparing when it comes to political social injustice.
36:02You know, I can admonish all categories of people, all political parties.
36:08But really, what has this become is how much the BJP did for social justice
36:13and what the Congress didn't do.
36:15I mean, that's getting a bit too much.
36:16Right from the beginning of the freedom movement, if I can remind you,
36:22the core issue was that of social injustice.
36:25And that is what Gandhi's temple entry movement began with.
36:29That is what the freedom movement was about.
36:31What was the First Amendment all about?
36:33It was reservations which the Congress brought about.
36:35What was the Untouchability Act?
36:38It was in 1955.
36:39What was reservation in promotions?
36:41What was the Atrocities Act against Schedule Caste Prevention of Atrocities Act?
36:47This was all a program built upon protecting and safeguarding the politics,
36:54the future of the Dalit community in India.
36:57That is Congress's commitment.
36:58And what has this party done?
37:01I don't like to remind people.
37:02Of course, there's the instrumental politics that keeps going on about votes and vote banks.
37:07That is not hugely instructive.
37:08That will keep going on.
37:10That is the nature of Indian politics.
37:12I'm interested in their commitment towards the cause of social injustice.
37:15Recently, right now, in Gujarat, in the temple entry, there was a Shuddhi Karan when Gujarat
37:23MLA of the Congress, who Karam Jhula actually went there and that was done by a former BJP MLA.
37:29Right?
37:29This is the nature of the consciousness of the BJP.
37:33And it doesn't end there.
37:34They have a number of things from lateral entry, from, you know, articles in the Panchajanya of the RSS,
37:41where they said that the caste system is actually safeguarding people.
37:45Sir, Anshul Abhijit, your time is up.
37:46I'm going to come right back.
37:47Your fader is down.
37:48So, we're giving equal time to every participant in this debate.
37:52I want to go across to our other two political commentators, Rajat Sethi and Ashutosh.
37:58Rajat Sethi, to come to you with your two minutes submissions here.
38:01It's, you know, it's not about which party did more, because that becomes highly subjective,
38:06especially in times of debate.
38:07But politically, as of now, the Dalit community, who does the Dalit community trust?
38:13If you look at electoral evidence, 2024 will take you somewhere else,
38:17while the recent state elections will completely, you know, are completely different in terms of electoral results.
38:25Well, I think today we are here to celebrate Babasab Ambedkar's, you know, grand stature in India's politics.
38:35He is the amalgamation of and a towering pillar of our democracy, not because of some electoral, you know, outcomes.
38:42He was a profound product of scholarship, rigor, brilliance.
38:47I mean, who in today's day and age can claim of having done two PhDs?
38:51You know, we need to, you know, make the canvas much bigger when it comes to Babasab.
38:55But we want to force him down.
38:57And this is ideally what Nehru also did.
38:59He wanted to see Babasab as a token Dalit representation in his cabinet.
39:04He never included, knowing very well that Babasab had done his PhD in economics from Colombia and from London School of Economics,
39:11he never allowed Babasab to come in and talk about the economic policies of the country while it was being shaped,
39:17while the planning commission was being laid out, while the deliberations on setting up a reserve bank was being discussed in our cabinet.
39:24In no such place was Babasab included.
39:28The reason was that Nehru wanted to ensure that there is this Dalit representation, a token at best.
39:34Let it be that.
39:35Why should I give him a bigger canvas to draw the picture?
39:37Why should a Dalit come out and take that position where he is shaping the industrial policies of free India?
39:45See, this is where my problem is.
39:46If you want to not try and assimilate Dalits as broader Indians and start looking at them in those dissected formats,
39:54those reductionist approach, where you see that it is a vote bank, it is going to vote together.
39:59And why are we now deliberating on, oh, Lok Sabah, they voted separately and in states they voted separately?
40:04The reason is that you need to start looking at populations at large, understand where their grievances are.
40:11But if you fall back onto the Congress's playbook, they will create all kinds of rumor mongering just to instill that fear.
40:18What is their core fear?
40:19It was constitution.
40:20And you know all kinds of rumors that went again to stoke those fears.
40:24That is what we should avoid if you want to really celebrate his legacy.
40:28All right, you know, but that's a utopian submission there somewhere down the line, Rajat.
40:34And I'll come, I'll circle back to you.
40:36Because, yes, today should have been a platform to celebrate the greatness of Baba Sahib.
40:41Of course it should have been.
40:43Why is it not?
40:44Because, unfortunately, whether we like it or not, Dr. Ambedkar has become a political commodity.
40:50And we've seen that off rate.
40:51And that is what is reflecting today through the course of the entire day, Rajat, cross political lines.
40:57You have the BJP who's blaming the Congress, the Congress, vice versa.
41:01So that's exactly what we're depicting on this new show.
41:03I want to bring in two minutes to Ashutosh.
41:05And I'll go back to the analogy that we made, Ashutosh.
41:092024, the data would suggest that the community seemingly had more faith in the India alliance.
41:14But look at the micro data of what happened in Maharashtra.
41:18The cradle of, you know, Dalit assertion, Vidhar, en masse, if you look at it, has swept where the NDA is concerned.
41:27See, Preeti, while listening to this debate to my fellow panelists, I was really very, I was smiling.
41:34I was smiling and I was very, very happy.
41:38Happy for the simple reason, because those who hated Baba Sahib Ambedkar and who forced Baba Sahib Ambedkar to leave Hinduism and join Buddhism,
41:50now today they want to appropriate Baba Sahib Ambedkar and want to celebrate his birthday and wants to project themselves that they are the greatest supporters of Baba Sahib Ambedkar.
42:02I just want to know from my fellow panelists what is their opinion, because the three great books which Baba Sahib Ambedkar has written,
42:11one, Annihilation of Caste, second, The Riddles of Hinduism, and third, The Pakistan, The Partition of India.
42:18All three books, and if I quote from The Annihilation of Caste, the para number 22.17 and 23.16, where he criticizes Hinduism for different reasons,
42:32it will be heartening for me to know whether these fellow panelists have changed their opinion about Baba Sahib Ambedkar,
42:39or what Baba Sahib Ambedkar has said, have they embraced it?
42:42And also it's important to know that what Baba Sahib Ambedkar has written in the book called Riddles of Hinduism,
42:48Riddles in Hinduism at page number 172, where he said, why democracy did not grow in India,
42:54and he goes on to explain the reason behind it, I will be very, very enlightened to know what his opinion about them.
43:00And Baba Sahib Ambedkar in this book very categorically talks about that why India needs to be partitioned.
43:06And he has written an entire book, building an argument that why India should be partitioned, partitioned and partitioned.
43:15And he said, we are happy after the partition.
43:17So the issue is, today, Baba Sahib Ambedkar, everybody knows that unless you talk about Baba Sahib Ambedkar,
43:25you will not get Dalit's vote.
43:26That is why those who bought Baba Sahib efficiencies during the Hindu conflict...
43:30Sir, your time is up, your fader is going to go down.
43:33I have, you know, I am going to try and pack in two, two minutes each.
43:36I know we started this debate late.
43:37So, without further ado and saying anything at all, I want to begin with Amitabh Tiwari.
43:43Two minutes, Amitabh Tiwari, politically going forward, because we are going into an election in Bihar,
43:48and, you know, multiple elections coming in next year.
43:51The importance of the Dalit vote.
43:54Well, see, the importance of the Dalit vote is for everybody to see clearly,
43:58because what sometimes we, when we analyze, we commit the mistake is that the Dalit vote
44:06is important in only the SC reserve seats, while actually it's the opposite.
44:11The Dalit vote is the think maker in non-SC reserve seats,
44:15wherein in each Vidhan Sabha, let's say 10, 15, 20, 25,000 votes,
44:19whichever party largely adheres to that party goes on to win the elections.
44:23So, now we have Bihar, where there is a 16% Dalit population, Mahadalits plus Dalits.
44:30The NDA would hope that with the Manji and the Chirat Paswan in their kitty,
44:37they would get maximum support.
44:39However, if you see in the 2020 Vidhan Sabha elections,
44:44the votes were largely split between the two alliances.
44:47The bigger game is likely to be played out in UP, wherein the BSP is on a sloping track
44:54and that 12-13% vote share which it has, which party is able to get that vote share
45:01because it largely comprises today of the JATO vote.
45:05However, in 2024 elections, what we've seen is that though the BJP was able to get
45:11the non-JATO votes in its favor between 2014 and 2024,
45:15in 2024, Samajwadi party was able to get the maximum support from the non-JATO
45:21because of perhaps the narrative of the change in constitution
45:24and also the PDA strategy which the India bloc had deployed in the state.
45:29So, that 21% vote of the Dalit community and the 13% vote share of the BSP become very, very crucial.
45:38And it's ultimately about the representative.
45:41If you see today, most of the political parties and the community seeks representation.
45:46In the CWC, you have 4 Dalit members out of 35.
45:50And amongst the Modi ministry also, you have 10 out of 70, 71.
45:54So, it's still lower than the 17% population.
45:58Your time's up.
46:00Apologies, time is up.
46:01I want to immediately go to our other panelists.
46:05Sanju Verma, two minutes start now.
46:06Make your submissions.
46:07Not asking any questions.
46:09Go, man.
46:11Preeti, first and foremost, let's get one thing very clear.
46:14The BJP is not honoring Baba Saheb Ambedkar's legacy by building statues and memorials alone.
46:20I think the best way to honor somebody's legacy is to follow the path that he propounded.
46:26And I'm giving out some data.
46:27Let your audience be the judge.
46:30Pradhan Mantri Jandhan Yojana, 72% of the beneficiaries are OBCs and Dalits.
46:35PM Kisan Yojana, 67% beneficiaries, OBCs and Dalits.
46:39PM Fasal Bhima Yojana, 63% beneficiaries, OBCs and Dalits.
46:43Mutra Yojana, 50% beneficiaries, OBCs and Dalits.
46:48Ayushman Bharat, 74% beneficiaries, OBCs and Dalits.
46:51Stand-up and start-up India, 68% beneficiaries, OBCs and Dalits.
46:56Pradhan Mantri Jandhan Yojana, 82% beneficiaries, OBCs and Dalits.
47:00So, Prime Minister Modi has walked the talk when it comes to ensuring that the benefits of his welfare schemes
47:08populate down to the most vulnerable, including OBCs, Dalits and Adivasis, point number one.
47:14Point number two, 39% of BJP's MPs are either OBCs, Dalits or Adivasis.
47:2041.3% of BJP's MLAs are either OBCs, Dalits or Adivasis.
47:2742.7% of our MLCs are either Adivasis, OBCs and Dalits.
47:32So, we have again walked the talk.
47:33But let me tell you one thing.
47:35Baba Sahib, a maker, was a practicing Hindu for the longest time.
47:39He embraced Buddhism only on the 14th of October, 1956,
47:43before he passed away on the 6th of December, 1956.
47:45He was not even a Buddhist for two whole months of his life.
47:49And Congress, Baba Sahib, a maker, this is the same Congress which refused to give him a Bharat Ratna.
47:56He was given a Bharat Ratna 34 years after his death,
47:59when VP Singh was the Prime Minister and the BJP supported VP Singh from outside
48:04to ensure that Baba Sahib got his due.
48:06So, the Congress is only paying lip service.
48:08We have shown it.
48:10We have said it.
48:11Two minutes, I want to give the Congress panelist, Anshul Abhijit, go, sir.
48:19No, no, as I said before, this is not about transactional politics.
48:23It's not about instrumentalism.
48:24Who's going to get whose votes, who's quoting whom.
48:26That comes with politics.
48:28That's the nature of Indian democracy.
48:29The idea is the commitment to the cause of social justice.
48:33And if this day reminds us of that cause,
48:35and how much BJP has not been fostering that cause,
48:38rather it's been against it by all their policies.
48:40And I'll give you one example after another.
48:42The Shuddikaran that happened in Gujarat by a BJP MLA after a Dalit MLA entered that temple
48:48is just one small example.
48:50There have been books written about the discrimination that held in the RSS on caste lines.
48:55But that's not just all.
48:57In terms of policy, the removal of STST scholarships,
49:00the STST sub-plan that the Congress had is just another example.
49:03Lateral entry is another example.
49:05In the teacher's appointment in UP for which the High Court actually reprimanded the state government
49:11for not giving adequate representation and reservations, which is the core of the policy.
49:16Legislation is the core of the policy.
49:17I would like to ask the BJP which temporary movement they have led,
49:21where they have gone in terms of legislation, which the Congress has done hundreds.
49:25And, you know, I told you, I'm unsparing.
49:28I will admonish those who have not done enough.
49:30I won't leave out anyone.
49:32Maybe there's a lot more work to be done.
49:34But the scourge of the caste system that has haunted us for years and years,
49:38this terrible rotten beast that refuses to die,
49:41is the main problem here.
49:43And the BJP is actually fostering that beast and giving it life.
49:47The NCRT textbooks, if you remember, in Class 6, have removed caste discrimination.
49:53The argument being, if there is no caste discrimination, there is no need for reservations.
49:58It's a clear plan that the BJP and its ideological allies and its ideological past
50:04that has a clear history of going and of promoting status quoism is now at play here.
50:12So this is clearly lip service.
50:13If you need me to tell more, I can speak on and on about this.
50:16But this is what is happening and this is the hard reality.
50:19So, so much so.
50:20Sir, I don't have the time.
50:22I apologize.
50:22And I want to, I have two minutes left.
50:24Allow me to give one minute each both to Rajat and Ashutosh.
50:27Apologies to the both of you.
50:28Rajat, your time starts now.
50:30You have one minute, sir.
50:33Sir, you're on mute.
50:36No, no, I'm not on mute.
50:38Okay, go ahead.
50:39All right.
50:40See, you know, what I'm sensing from the Congress spokesperson is pretty clear.
50:44There is this sense that, you know, which is elucidated by none other than Rahul Gandhi
50:48that somehow merit and merit structures are something which they have to fight against.
50:53And Rahul Gandhi was open about it that I need to fight against merit.
50:57This is the most perversion of Ambedkar.
51:00Ambedkar was very clear.
51:04He warned again the resentment that is there against caste dominance.
51:08It should never translate into any kind of anti-intellectual populism or the rejection
51:13of the concept of excellence or merit.
51:15And this is the problem which repeatedly, they will go and attack later entry.
51:19They won't come out with any constructive idea.
51:21They believe that somehow merit goes against social justice.
51:25Instead, Rahul Gandhi and his entire cabal do not put in any amount of effort that what
51:30can I do in terms of opportunity so that our Dalit and tribal students can also go out
51:35and compete on merit with the general class students.
51:37Instead of coming, being constructive, they want to perverse what Ambedkar...
51:42Rajat, there's no time.
51:43That's it.
51:43One minute's over.
51:44Apologies.
51:45One minute was lesser to you.
51:46And Ashutosh, Ashutosh, one minute starts now, sir.
51:48Please make your submissions.
51:49See, Preeti, in the last 28 years, how the world has changed, how India has changed.
51:56In 1997, a famous book was written, which was called Worshipping the False Gods.
52:02You know, who was the author of that book?
52:04Arun Shauri.
52:05In which party he was?
52:06He was BJP.
52:07And after writing the book, he was promoted and he became part of the cabinet.
52:12He became a cabinet minister.
52:14And he was worshipped like God.
52:16Arun Shauri was worshipped like God.
52:17So, in the last 28 years, the BJP has realised that worshipping false gods is not going to help them.
52:25So, they have started worshipping Baba Sabambedkar.
52:28And today, I'm really happy whether the Congress adopts them, or the BJP adopts them, or the BSP adopts them.
52:33It's good that at least Dalits are being recognised, their electoral power has been recognised.
52:39And it's good for the BJP and the Congress, for all political parties to do it.
52:42But the fact is, whether they want to continue with their caste prejudices, that has to be seen.
52:51Alright, that's all the time we have for now.
52:53Thank you for all our guests for joining us.
52:55You know, this required a more detailed debate.
52:58We've only just skimmed the surface.
53:00Well, not even that many would suggest.
53:02But we did give in to those visuals that were coming in from Texas, of that all-women space capsule,
53:07all in just 14 minutes.
53:09I'm coming down there.