The mask slips again! Zelensky's erratic statements reveal a leader losing touch with reality—while Lavrov delivers a geopolitical masterclass at Antalya Forum:
✅ "NATO's biggest enemy is NATO itself!" - Lavrov exposes the alliance's self-destructive spiral
✅ Failed Security Promises - 75 years of NATO = 75 years of broken guarantees
✅ Zelensky's Schizophrenic Rhetoric - Desperate flip-flopping between war cries and peace talks
⚡️ "The West built a monster it can't control" - and now the whole world pays the price.
#Lavrov #NATOfail #Zelensky #AntalyaForum #Russia #UkraineWar #Geopolitics #DoubleStandards #ForeignPolicy #SecurityFailure #WestInDecline #TruthBomb #DiplomacyWins #EmpireOfLies #WakeUpWorld
✅ "NATO's biggest enemy is NATO itself!" - Lavrov exposes the alliance's self-destructive spiral
✅ Failed Security Promises - 75 years of NATO = 75 years of broken guarantees
✅ Zelensky's Schizophrenic Rhetoric - Desperate flip-flopping between war cries and peace talks
⚡️ "The West built a monster it can't control" - and now the whole world pays the price.
#Lavrov #NATOfail #Zelensky #AntalyaForum #Russia #UkraineWar #Geopolitics #DoubleStandards #ForeignPolicy #SecurityFailure #WestInDecline #TruthBomb #DiplomacyWins #EmpireOfLies #WakeUpWorld
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NewsTranscript
00:00Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished guests, welcome to ADF Talks Russia, which is a one-on-one
00:12conversation at a time when the global diplomatic landscape is under, I think it's fair to say,
00:19extraordinary pressure and transition. We are joined today by His Excellency Mr. Sergei Lavrov,
00:27the Minister of Foreign Affairs for the Russian Federation. As we all know, he is a seasoned
00:32statesman and one of the most enduring figures in global diplomacy. Mr. Lavrov has served as
00:39Russia's top diplomat since 2004. From the UN Security Council to the Geneva Talks and beyond,
00:45he has shaped and responded to pivotal moments in global affairs over the past two decades.
00:51Today, with Europe's security architecture and infrastructure under immense strain and the
00:57global order fragmenting into competing visions, we're wondering about Russia's posture, its
01:03strategy, its alliances, and worldview. We'll be exploring over the next hour or so Minister
01:09Lavrov's perspective on this evolving geopolitical reality. What does Russia want? What role does
01:15it see for itself in an emerging multipolar world? And how does it define peace, power,
01:21and diplomacy in the 21st century? So let's begin. Minister Lavrov, welcome to Antalya once again.
01:31I know that you're likely to respond in your mother tongue of Russian, but if I could ask this one
01:36question in English. You see a full room out here. I think after President Recep Tayyip Erdogan,
01:43you are by far the most popular figure here. How does it feel to be a diplomatic rock star?
01:48Well, I think if we have heads of state being a real rock star, then there is nothing wrong with
01:59diplomats to be what they are. And if people like it, if people believe this is fun, so be it.
02:08Well, I think, as they say, the proof is in the pudding. It's a full room. Next year, we should be
02:13asking for maybe the Aspendos ancient theater, just about 14 kilometers from here. It can fit 14,000
02:18people, I think. Anyway, last year, I had the privilege and honor to share the same stage with
02:23you. And one of the things that you tried to emphasize was the rise of the multipolar world.
02:31Twelve months on, how do you assess the current state of this transition? And how do you feel this
02:36trajectory has met your country's expectations? Well, I think the trend became even stronger.
02:44More and more countries, big countries, medium-sized countries, small countries, would like to have
02:53an equal say in the world affairs in full conformity with the United Nations Charter, which says that
03:00the United Nations is based on sovereign equality of states. And more and more countries want to
03:07determine their life themselves, to have fair treatment, to have fair competition in economy,
03:16trade, in other areas, just in line with the principles of globalization, which were promoted
03:24by our Western friends, especially by the United States, for so many decades. And when everybody
03:28became persuaded, the globalization stopped. And what we observe is fragmentation of the
03:35world economy. This is the time of uncertainty, I would say. Nobody knows how the situation
03:44with world trade and investment is going to end. Well, that would be no end, how it is going
03:51to evolve, I would say, because there would be new twists in this situation. But generally speaking,
03:58I think about multipolarity, it is gaining ground, no doubt about this. Not only big countries
04:05like China, India, Brazil, Turkey, Indonesia, Egypt, South Africa, many others. They believe that
04:15they deserve a say in world affairs. And therefore, multipolarity is a chance for the United Nations
04:26charter principles to be materialized. Because before, during this globalization, especially
04:37during the Cold War, the sovereign equality of states was never respected by our Western colleagues.
04:44If you retrospectively consider history after World War II and creation of the United Nations, there
04:53was no single conflict where the leaders of the West would be treating parties to a conflict
05:01as equals. And I understand that this might sound idealistic and maybe this equality would
05:07never be brought to life. But the principles of the charter, drafted by the founding fathers,
05:14they already provided for multiple areas. Just like they provided for respect for human rights,
05:22respect for the right of nations to determine their faith themselves, and this is also on the rise.
05:30It is very important to underline that in our vision of multipolarity, as we promote this concept
05:42with our partners in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, in BRICS, in the Eurasian Economic
05:48Union, the concept of multipolarity does not exclude the West. It embraces everybody, just like the
05:57charter instructed us. I see no reason why China and the U.S. shouldn't have good relations, why Russia
06:09and the U.S. shouldn't have good relations, why everybody shouldn't be treated with respect and
06:16with understanding of national interests. I had some contacts with the members of the Washington
06:26administration, and I liked the message which they were carrying. I am not quoting, but in essence,
06:37the message was that the foreign policy of the United States is based on national interests
06:42of the United States. At the same time, the United States recognizes that other countries also have
06:49their national interests, and those interests would never coincide fully, maybe even half of these interests
06:57would not be similar. But when the interests, especially the interests of big countries coincide, it is essential
07:06for them to find ways to materialize them into mutually beneficial economic, logistical and other projects.
07:13While when these interests contradicts each other, it is the responsibility and duty of countries, especially if we speak
07:23about big powers, not to allow these differences to degenerate into confrontation, especially the hot confrontation.
07:31And this is something which we absolutely support. We have been acting the same way throughout our history.
07:41And the last element of this multipolarity, in our common region, the security issues after World War II have been addressed
07:56from the Euro-Atlantic logic. The NATO, of course, EU was European, per se, but lately the European Union
08:12signed a deal, a treaty with NATO, treaty on agreement, I don't know, but European Union is now part of Euro-Atlantic policies,
08:18no doubt about it, including the provision of its territory for NATO plans to move eastward, southward, I don't know where.
08:25OSCE was created as an obviously Euro-Atlantic creature, and all of these Euro-Atlantic constructions, I think they failed.
08:39They failed to consolidate security and stability. What they succeeded in is igniting tension and re-militarizing Europe,
08:53including Germany, in spite of the fact that the economic and social situation is degrading.
09:01But all efforts of this Euro-Atlantic community are concentrated on getting ready for a new war.
09:09And Germany, together with France and Britain, are in the lead of this. If you think about how the world looks now, Africa – well, everywhere there are sub-regional organizations, many of them.
09:27The organization of Turkish states, here, Eurasian Economic Union, ASEAN, Shanghai Cooperation, many.
09:36The same is true for Africa, many sub-regional groupings, and in Latin America. But Africa and Latin America, they do have their all-continental structures – African Union and CELAC.
09:51In Eurasia, there was never anything like this. And as I said, the attempts to bring some big unifying projects were only made on the basis of Euro-Atlantic concept.
10:06President Putin, last year, when he spoke in the Foreign Ministry, he suggested to consider the discussion of potential security architecture in Eurasia as a continent.
10:22The architecture where all countries, without exception, including the western part of the continent, will be invited to participate, where all regional arrangements would be invited to join.
10:37And actually, we have, some years ago, started building bridges between Shanghai Cooperation and Eurasian Economic Union.
10:45We have been also planning contacts between these groups and, for example, Gulf Cooperation Council, which is also a security but also an economic organization.
11:02And about ten years ago, we started building these bridges without having anything in mind in the security area, but economically, logistically, finding ways to cooperate, to join efforts, to harmonize plans.
11:23And this is a promising process. We call it Great Eurasian Partnership.
11:32And this is something like potential material foundation for the future security system, open to all countries and organizations representing Eurasia continent.
11:45So I think we are in favor of interruption discussion, so I, with your permission, stop here.
11:52No, no. Please, by all means.
11:54Do you feel that it's perhaps the West's failure, some of the institutions and bodies that they have set up after World War II?
12:00You've described it as a failure. That's how you said.
12:04And the fact that you're talking about a greater Eurasia partnership, aside the military, aside the strategic perspective, is that a success in the 21st century?
12:14No, we cannot call a success something which is just being born in the minds of people.
12:21But the process of, you know, analyzing the situation is based on the failures of the Euro-Atlantic models of security.
12:32NATO should have been dissolved in the first place, after the Soviet Union seems to exist, after the Warsaw Treaty seems to exist.
12:39And there were voices in the West saying, guys, let's now concentrate on OSCE. Let's give it some push and let's be all in one organization.
12:53NATO, you know, the promises given to Gorbachev, then to Yeltsin, and there are memoirs where some people ask,
13:05why didn't you insist on a written guarantee when Jim Baker said NATO would not move an inch to the East?
13:15My answer, it just occurred to me. You know, in the Russian history, since 17, 18 century when the trade was booming, nobody signed any contracts.
13:30They shook hands. They shook hands, the World of Honor, and it was never violated.
13:36So probably those who were running NATO at the time of what we are discussing didn't have any relatives in the former Tsarist Empire,
13:45which is not my fault, and did not inherit those traditions. But NATO not only stayed, remained.
13:53It was basically announced that this would be the only organization which can guarantee your security.
14:021999, Istanbul, a summit of OSCE. The solemn declaration is adopted, which among other things said,
14:14that security is equal and indivisible. Everybody, yes, has the right to choose security alliances,
14:22but this cannot be done at the expense of diminishing the security of others.
14:29Then it was even blunter when it said no country, no group of countries, no organizations in the Euro-Atlantic OSCE area can claim dominance.
14:43And NATO was doing exactly this. And when Putin came to power, was elected president,
14:51he was repeatedly warning about very dangerous nature of discourse.
14:572007 in Munich, if you re-listen it now, it was very far-sighted, unfortunately.
15:06Then 2008, NATO summit in Bucharest, which was also followed by a Russian NATO summit. I was there with President Putin.
15:19And when it was announced that Germany and France did not allow to pass a decision formally launching negotiating process for Georgia and Ukraine to be admitted to NATO,
15:36the Germans. The Germans and the French were proud. They said, but they included in the declaration the statement that Georgia and Ukraine will be in NATO.
15:48When Putin asked Merkel what is the difference, she said, no, no, no, no, this is just a political statement.
15:55And what we managed to avoid was a legal process to be launched. But frankly, it's childish.
16:02Because Saakashvili lost his brains a few months after Bucharest, when he ordered the attack of the Russian peacekeepers in South Asia,
16:14violated the OSCE-endorsed agreement, and so on and so forth.
16:21Then, in 2010, in Astana, this was the last summit of OSCE so far, the Istanbul formula was repeated verbatim.
16:33No organization can claim dominance, no one strengthens his security at the expense of security of others.
16:41The lady is uncomfortable, do you think?
16:43No, but there is some commotion all the time here.
16:58And then, when this NATO expansion continued and when it was clear that these principles promulgated in OSCE about equal and indivisible security,
17:10that they were not being implemented, then we suggested to have the same language and codify it in a legally binding agreement.
17:20We were told, it was during the Obama administration, we were told, no, no, no, guys, you don't understand.
17:25Legally binding guarantees one can only get in NATO.
17:29We said, but your president signed this OSCE declaration.
17:34They said, this is political statement.
17:36Cheating, cheating, cheating is the key word for what was happening.
17:42And our last attempt, but we still in 2008 and 2010 were proposing the draft agreements between Russia and NATO, Russia and the United States.
17:56The same we did in 2021 in December, to no avail.
17:59So, yes, my point is that NATO failed to strengthen security because NATO was manipulated by those who did not want to share security benefits.
18:15And they wanted to leave all the benefits for themselves, for others to listen and get instructions.
18:20OSCE, another Euro-Atlantic preacher, has failed a few years ago when the principle, the basic principle of consensus was grossly violated by the people who replaced each other at the position of the chair in office,
18:39and the secretary general position, all the institutions, national minorities, freedom of media, what else?
18:50You see, I even forget about some institutions, which means that OSCE is not on anybody's mind anymore.
18:58Yes, they failed.
18:59Yes, they failed.
19:00They are not suggesting, you know, to have another closed club.
19:05All continents have their own continental roofs, if you wish.
19:11Not in Eurasia.
19:13And Eurasia is the biggest, the richest, I would say.
19:17Well, Africa is also very rich, but it is not yet opening up this potential.
19:24And if you speak from a civilizational point of view, the number of great civilizations coming from that area, coming from Eurasia, including this one,
19:34including China, including Russia, India, Russia is younger.
19:41But you would forgive me if I also say that it's a great one.
19:45Indeed.
19:46Minister Lavrov, you've stated here quite – like some water, sir?
19:52Is that what you're looking for?
19:53Okay.
19:55NATO's desire for eastward expansion is the root problem, and then you went on to say that the OSCE is another chapter in this cheating.
20:05Do you feel that there is a viable path – I'm not saying return – a viable path to cooperative security on the European continent?
20:15Cooperative security is one of the terms used in NATO, in the European Union, in the OSCE.
20:25It all depends.
20:27Frankly, we are just at the beginning of the process.
20:32We don't want to rush things.
20:33We want everybody to join in three discussions to present his or her views.
20:40And I mentioned repeatedly that a couple of years ago President Lukashenko of Belarus convened a first conference on Eurasian security.
20:51The second one was last fall. I participated in both. And the third – it is an annual feature.
21:00And invited to this conference were not only like-minded countries, but also members of NATO and European Union.
21:08Some other Europeans like Serbia. Hungary, of course, participated in both of them. Slovakia.
21:15And the list of invitees would be growing. It is not against anybody. It is not against NATO.
21:24I think the biggest enemy of NATO is NATO itself and those who were trying to use it to dominate in violation of their own pledges in OSCE.
21:36But the fragmentation process, which I mentioned, which is taking place in the world economy, it is also reflected in the security area.
21:49The discussions of NATO, the scares of Europeans, that they would be left to their own devices, we don't interfere.
21:56If they believe that they are still relevant in the form which failed many times. This is their right. This is their right to decide.
22:10Our right is to make sure that the matters of the Eurasian continent are discussed and resolved by the countries located on this continent.
22:20This is not to close the door for outsiders. Take, for example, Central Asia. The 5 plus 1 format is, I think, mushrooming.
22:3510 or 12 groups like this with the US, with European Union, separately with France, with Germany, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Russia, of course.
22:46I just had yesterday the meeting with five foreign ministers of Central Asian countries.
22:54So outsiders always are participating in something which they believe is of interest to them and if they can find a form of cooperation which would be mutually beneficial.
23:06We cooperate with many countries in Africa and Latin America. So do Western countries.
23:12Turkey in Africa is very much present. So do the Arab countries. The matter is, when you come to somebody's region, you should respect the views of the regionals and host countries, if you wish, and not impose your rules.
23:33It's like our European and British colleagues are running all over the world. It used to be also Biden administration involved in this running all over the world saying,
23:43don't trade with Russia, don't sell to Russia, don't sell to Russia, don't buy from Russia, don't meet with Russia.
23:50I know because those are the facts. And this is not multipolarity. This is obsession with your global role which you invented yourself and which worked during colonialism, during post-colonial times for some period.
24:11But now there is a second awakening of the global self. After the decolonization process, the global self was happy, freedom, but now they understand that the global economy was crafted the way which left them with peanuts from the use of the natural resources which they inherited from God and history.
24:37Absolutely. I remember during the second Russia-Africa summit in 2003 in St. Petersburg, President Museveni of Uganda was giving statistics of the world coffee market.
24:50All in all assessed at about 450 billion euros, of which Africans were left with 40, less than 10% because their contribution was raw beans.
25:05They harvested and sent for roasting, packaging, advertising. Germany alone was getting more from the world coffee market than all African countries together.
25:17So this awakening is inevitable. Yes, the tariff war which we witness now is going to change many things.
25:29We hear that many countries would like to sit down with the United States and negotiate. Fine. We will only be happy if people reach some deals peacefully and to their mutual satisfaction.
25:46The World Trade Organization, unfortunately, is paralyzed. It was paralyzed by previous American administrations for many, many years and there is no global institution which would be authoritative enough for everybody to accept its ruling.
26:05So I believe we just must have these discussions about security, Eurasian security, but in the context of the multipolarity movement, which is shaping itself up objectively.
26:26You've mentioned on many occasions that your country's relationship with Western neighbors essentially depends on their willingness to acknowledge and rectify some mistakes.
26:40You've gone over some of them in the past 15, 20 minutes. But I want to ask, and we talked about the U.S. administration, how is it like to have Donald Trump on the other side?
26:51Is it easier? Because in the last 48 hours, we're all of a sudden we're talking about the possible lifting of sanctions against your country's flagship airline, Aeroflot, the release of Ksenia Carolina, the ballerina.
27:04Is there a potential for more movement?
27:10There is always a potential. And as I said in my opening remarks, nothing wrong if the U.S. and Russia have good relations, if U.S. and China have good relations.
27:24And what is going on between us and the Trump administration is really a very banal thing. Countries talk to each other without dictating to each other, without asking for any precondition.
27:38They just talk to each other. China and the United States, they have many differences, many differences.
27:46Russia was indoctrinated by Biden administration as the immediate threat. China is the long-term biggest challenge to the American dominance.
27:58So competition in the world of economy, you see what kind of forms it acquires.
28:05And Taiwan, the situation in the Strait of Taiwan, the situation in the South China Sea, who is going to have more influence with countries of East-South Asia.
28:24And they exchange statements, China and the United States, which are not very pleasant to each other, including on Taiwan.
28:34And the West, headed by the United States and other Western countries, they say, we recognize, we follow one China policy.
28:44But they immediately, but don't even think of touching the status quo. And what is status quo? It is not one China policy.
28:54And from time to time, we hear from Washington, the threats to Beijing, don't even think of using force. This would be catastrophic.
29:04So they exchange niceties publicly. But they never stopped talking to each other at the level of foreign ministers, ministers of defense, national security advisors and presidents.
29:18And somehow Biden administration decided that with Russia, it should be different. Russia must learn a lesson.
29:27And this lesson, this punishment would be in the form of isolation. Stupid, to put it very politely. And not talking to each other.
29:39So what Trump suggested is come back to normalcy, to stop this idiotic posture, which was, I think, not – which was a disgrace for the American role in the world affairs, let me put it this way.
29:57And, yes, we discuss bilateral relations, starting with the normalization of the work of the conditions in which our embassies work.
30:09Obama administration started throwing out diplomats. He stole five pieces of diplomatic property, which are still under arrest,
30:21just like Biden administration has stolen the Russian assets, and they are now thinking what to do with it so that not to create a precedent.
30:34They created precedent already. And if they believe that they should not touch the body of the stolen money, but they can steal the interest and spend it on Ukraine,
30:47they can't take it on Ukraine. This is disgusting logic. And it shows that neo-colonial thinking never left these people.
30:56But the embassy activities, issuing visas in certain timeframe, not waiting – so that diplomats don't wait for years to get a visa,
31:09to normalize the issuance of the U.S. visas to the Russians who are admitted to the United Nations Secretariat.
31:18There were also problems. And, yes, we want to see what joint project we can consider and discuss together.
31:27This was the proposal from the Americans. We never rejected proposals to cooperate in economy, in conflict resolution – never.
31:40Never. And when we met with Marco Rubio and Mike Walz, together with President's advisor Ushakov in Riyadh,
31:49we touched upon some regional issues – Middle East, the situation with the Iranian nuclear program, some other –
32:00and, of course, of course, we discussed Ukraine. And I will repeat again what I said then and I repeated this publicly also.
32:13When we speak about eliminating root causes of any conflict, including Ukrainian conflict, this is the only way to resolve the problem
32:22and to establish long-lasting peace – remove root causes.
32:30President Trump was the first and so far, I think, almost the only one among the Western leaders who repeatedly, with conviction,
32:41several times stated that it was a huge mistake to pull Ukraine into NATO.
32:46And this is one of the root causes which we quoted so many times. They also mention now another thing which related to the root causes, namely territorial issue.
33:04They publicly, including Steve Witkoff, they recognize that the territorial issues would have to be handled in the context of the long-lasting settlement.
33:12This is the Americans. The Americans, yes. And I would like to – by the way, when Ukrainians and the U.S. delegations in Riyadh agreed on some paper
33:28in favor of 30-day ceasefire, this was done in the context of the Americans saying NATO and territories inevitable.
33:39No NATO and discussion on the status of territories.
33:44Ukrainians and the people like Macron, Starmer, and Ursula von der Leyen, now they say Ukraine is in favor and Russia is against the ceasefire.
33:54But they lose sight, I think, on purpose, from the nuances as Putin called them – NATO and territories.
34:07Because it is in the context of these aspects that the American proposal was put forward.
34:14So, immediately after this was mentioned by the Americans, Zelensky administration said NATO is none of your business.
34:23Territories we don't discuss. We need arms, arms and arms.
34:28And then since it was in time of discussions of this peacekeeping thing,
34:34Zelensky said we don't need peacekeepers, we need fighting units. So the psychophrenia of these mutually exclusive statements is very obvious.
34:51But on territories, I want to make a very important point. We are not about territories.
34:59We are about people who live on these lands whose ancestors lived there for centuries, who founded cities like Odessa,
35:13Katrin the Great, who built factories, who built roads, ports. And these people, by a twist of history during the Soviet days,
35:28became not part of Russia but part of Ukraine because this was considered a consolidating factor to neutralize the ultra-radicals living in the western part of Ukraine
35:40Ukraine when it joined the Soviet Union after the war. The people who live there, they are being deprived of all human rights.
35:52I quoted the Yuen Shatovich in Article 1 says everybody must respect human rights of every individual irrespective of race, gender, language or religion.
36:05Religious and language rights of anybody who is ethnic Russian and lives on the territory which used to be Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic,
36:22they were deprived of their basic rights. The Russian language has been prohibited at all stages of education in the areas of culture, media.
36:31Russian books have been thrown out of the libraries. The Nazis in Germany were burning them. But Ukrainians are much more smart.
36:46They utilize them and get money for this. But everybody is happy. And recently the canonic Ukrainian Orthodox Church was prohibited by law.
36:55They literally exterminate anything Russian. When – in 2021 in September, long before the operation which we had to launch,
37:07Zelenskyy was asked in an interview what he thought – and at that time the Minsk agreement was still valid,
37:13though later Germans, the French and the Ukrainian President before Zelenskyy admitted that they never intended to implement them.
37:21And they needed more time to arm Ukraine. Speaking of the ceasefire for 30 days.
37:26Logic is the same. But in September 21, Zelenskyy was asked what he thought about the people on the other side of the line of contact in Donbas.
37:35And he said, trying to sound clever, you know, there are people and there are ****.
37:46And my advice to those who live in Ukraine but feel associated with the Russian culture, for the sake of your kids, for the sake of your grandchildren, get out to Russia.
37:56And just a couple of weeks ago, in another interview, when he was asked what is driving him, you know, he said hatred to Russia.
38:06The interviewer wanted to clarify to Putin. He said no to all Russians.
38:11And this is said by the person who, during his artistic days, was defending the right of Ukrainians to speak Russian.
38:21And he said, get lost. Don't even think about touching the Russian language. It's our history.
38:25So this is where we are. Hatred is not the best guide. Can you imagine, by the way, I want to, maybe somebody knows, Israel never prohibited Arab language.
38:44No? I don't think so.
38:46So I think Ukraine is the only country on earth which is multinational and the language of one huge ethnic group is prohibited.
39:04And if you read and listen to what the West is saying, EU, NATO, especially EU, human rights is on top of everything.
39:18When they discuss Venezuela, Russia, Serbia, Turkey, human rights, they never forget about human rights.
39:27Check what they are saying on the situation in Ukraine.
39:30They say Zelensky and his team defend European values.
39:36If your value is exterminating the language of those who founded the country.
39:41If your value is to glorify Nazis and their collaborators who were convicted by the Nuremberg Tribunal.
39:50To whom you put monuments whose birthday you celebrate as national holiday while ruining, toppling the monuments to those who saved Europe from Nazism.
40:04Toppling the monument in Odessa, which I mentioned already, to Catherine the Great, who founded that city.
40:10By the way, soon after this monument to Catherine the Great, the Empress was toppled, UNESCO granted the Odessa central region where the monument was located the status of the World Heritage.
40:28It's such a shame to the lady who happens to be French and happens, I think, by default, to become Director General of this respected organization.
40:43Minister Lavrov. All right. So you eliminate the root cause and you talked about territory.
40:46I was just in a session talking about the European security structure and on there was the Ukrainian foreign minister.
40:52He says, when it comes to territory, I hear your concept, your idea, your position on territory, but they're not going to accept anything less than the 1991 borders.
41:03It's not about them accepting.
41:04It's about making 100 percent certain that the people who have been living there for centuries are not deprived of their inherent right.
41:17And if Ukrainian regime – I cannot describe it otherwise – enjoys the cover from the European Union, which, as I just mentioned, never dropped a word about the situation with human rights in Ukraine, then this is not our problem.
41:40We listen to those people who voted at referendum to join Russia to restore all their rights.
41:48Which belong to them by international law and by history, by justice.
41:55Okay. You have stated on numerous occasions that it is a hostile act to even entertain the idea of foreign peacekeepers.
42:02Would, under any circumstance, the Russian Federation think about neutral peacekeepers in the territory?
42:09The biggest advocates of something like stability force, sustainability force are Macron and Starmer.
42:23And they are not thinking about any neutral force. They say we – Macron and Starmer would be the countries who would provide the most of the contingent.
42:37They talk, by the way, to countries outside European Union, including Turkey.
42:44They talk – according to the rumors – they said that they are talking to China, which is a lie, India, Indonesia, they mention.
42:51My question is, first, President Trump, who, as I mentioned already, seems to understand much, much, much more about what is going on than any European leader,
43:07except I would highlight Hungary and Slovakia. These leaders are quite thoughtful, but it was President Trump who said first many things on NATO and territories.
43:26And he said that when asked about this idea of contingent, a force, a group, whatever you call it, there should be some discussion between the parties.
43:37They say – I think Macron said – no discussion with Russians. Ukraine is a sovereign country. It has the right to invite anybody.
43:45And they are inviting us. In brackets, I would repeat what Zelensky said. We don't need peacekeepers, we need fighting units.
43:51So make your own conclusion. But Keith Kellogg, by the way, yesterday said that why don't we divide Ukraine like we divided Berlin after World War II.
44:03Then he said he was misunderstood, misspoken. But everybody is missing the key point.
44:11Imagine, yes, leaders of Brussels' bureaucracy, they say we must reach a deal which at the end of the day must guarantee Ukraine's sovereignty.
44:33They, by the way, didn't mention territorial integrity but sovereignty.
44:36My question is to them. You mean you want to have peacekeepers to keep the same regime which is now headed by Zelensky?
44:49You don't want to ask this regime whether it would be interested in implementing the international commitments, including UN charter,
44:59regarding the rights of minorities for national minorities, language and religious rights. Nobody is raising the issue.
45:09So my conclusion is that by ignoring the gross violation of all the international norms about human beings, by ignoring these norms and violations by Zelensky of these norms,
45:22and at the same time by discussing deployment of something military, call it peacekeeping, call it stabilization force, on the remaining part of Ukraine,
45:36they want to use this force not to keep peace but to keep and protect the Nazi regime. And this is key. Everything else is smokescreen.
45:50You mentioned the important talks that were going on in Riyadh and some of the conversations you had with the American delegation.
45:59Also what was talked about is safe navigation in the Black Sea. We know that there was a process going on in building this with the Turkish side, with the Republic of Turkey.
46:09What is your stance in terms of developing this?
46:14It was one of the proposals mentioned by President Trump in his latest phone conversation with President Putin.
46:21President Putin and President Putin said, okay, but we have to specify the deal the way which would not allow the failure of the first one to be repeated.
46:37The first one was in 2022. It was a package, guarantees for Ukrainian exports,
46:45and the second part of the package was memorandum between the UN and Russia to guarantee the exports from Russia by ensuring normal freight rates,
47:00insurance rates by ensuring the right of the Russian bulkers with fertilizers with grain to call on European in Mediterranean ports and so on and so forth.
47:14Just the normal terms of trade, no concessions. And the Ukrainian part of the deal was implemented.
47:20The Russian not even started. We don't blame the United Nations whose representatives were trying and they continue to try because formally the Russian-U.N. deal
47:35lasts until July this year. It was a three-year deal while the deal on Ukraine was one year.
47:41And, of course, after the first year elapsed, we said, thank you very much. We don't want to play one way.
47:51And then Secretary General Guterres was trying, Secretary General of UNCTAD, Rebecca Greenspan was trying.
48:00But the UN position, the UN secretariat position was very tricky.
48:05Basically, they were saying, we cannot touch sanctions. The fact that they recognized unilateral sanctions as legitimate.
48:16So, they told us, we will try to find a way bypassing sanctions so that we don't violate them.
48:24And they have been trying to do this for almost three years and to no avail.
48:29So, when it is not for the first time that this Black Sea topic is popping up again.
48:38Last year, President Erdogan, I think in March, proposed to President Putin to resume the deal.
48:45He said that Zelensky is ready to cooperate.
48:49The proposal was different from the original deal because the original deal provided for inspections of the Ukrainian cargo vessels going back to Ukrainian ports to make sure that they don't carry any weapons.
49:08Last year, the proposal by President Erdogan to President Putin was to trust me.
49:18It would be an announcement that there are no weapons on board and it would be allowed to go.
49:24It was not an easy situation, but President Putin said that he will support it provided President Erdogan use his good offices to discipline Ukraine so that they don't fail.
49:40And then, at the last moment, Zelensky refused.
49:43Even that?
49:44Actually, he first added – President Erdogan called President Putin and said,
49:52Zelensky also wants to add commitment not to attack nuclear power stations.
49:59Putin said, okay, it has nothing to do with Black Sea traffic, but okay.
50:05And then, when he agreed to this addition, Zelensky refused.
50:08So, we are coming again and again to this situation.
50:11In the meantime, Ukrainians, frankly speaking, I don't think they complain about difficulties for their grain being exported.
50:23They send a lot on dumping prices to European Union.
50:31European Union is not happy.
50:33And instead of doing something about this situation for the sake of their citizens,
50:37Brussels people threatened to stop importing any grain from Russia.
50:42They are very specific leaders.
50:44They say that Kaya Callas, Annalena Baerbock, they were saying yes when criticized by the people who are saying we live worse than before.
50:55Yes, we understand what our electorate should suffer for the sake of Ukraine.
51:02While at the same time, thousands and thousands of Ukrainians living there in Europe in luxury, buying very expensive vehicles.
51:12But this is what European elite calls European values, which they defend in the person of Zelensky regime.
51:22So, this time when President Trump suggested another Black Sea deal, Putin said, yeah, we are ready, but we need to draw lessons from the past.
51:34And let's make sure before we launch it, let's resolve the things on freight, insurance, calling on the ports.
51:46The Americans took this and they are considering they didn't come back to us after this.
51:51Another initiative of President Trump was 30-day moratorium, not a total ceasefire but 30-day moratorium on attacking energy infrastructure.
52:00During this phone conversation, President Putin immediately agreed and he authorized, gave orders to the chief of general staff to stop attacking Ukrainian energy infrastructure,
52:15even infrastructure related to the military.
52:18And at that moment, seven drones, Russian drones, were airborne, and Putin gave order to shut them down, which was done.
52:27Since then, we have been keeping the word, and Ukrainians have been attacking us from the very beginning every passing day,
52:43maybe with two or three exceptions.
52:44And I gave to our colleagues from Turkey, to Minister Fidan, what we give to Americans, to UN, to OSC, the list of facts, listing the attacks by Ukraine during the last three weeks against Russian energy infrastructure.
53:04We understand he hates all Russians, so he gave orders.
53:11Either he gives orders and they are not taken, or he is lying that he is giving these orders.
53:19It's a tragedy. It's a tragedy.
53:25Has there been any direct or indirect contact by the Ukrainian side here in Antalya?
53:29Not to my knowledge. I came here to work.
53:36Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, we're coming to the end of our allocated time.
53:44I've talked about relations with the West, the United States, the situation in Ukraine.
53:49If any esteemed journalist has a question on anything else.
53:54From China. From China.
53:56Yes. From China.
53:57From China.
53:58Mr. Minister, would you think that the President Trump, or some guys, or the President of the United States,
54:04they'd like to adopt the country-decent approach to drive away to Russia, then China, and realign with Russia after the aftermath of the Ukrainian war?
54:12How would you see, or how would you evaluate this kind of economic approach?
54:19You mean to do what?
54:21Yeah, to make the eyes to Russia and Russia closer and drive away between Russia and China. Would that take effect?
54:27Look, I can only tell you that in none of our contacts with the Americans, in none, be it phone conversation, be it meeting in person,
54:42this issue was never raised or even hinted upon. Never.
54:48And I think that the President Trump and his people, they are very experienced in life.
54:59And when you understand life, it's much easier to do politics.
55:04And since he understands life, I believe those who understand life, they would never even think about trying to drive a wedge between Russia and China.
55:14Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, unfortunately, we've run out of time.
55:19We'd like to thank Minister Sergei Lavrov for your insights and for your candor and for your participation here at the Antalya Diplomacy Forum.
55:26Thank you very much. The next session begins in 13 minutes.
55:29Please join me in welcoming and thanking Mr. Sergei Lavrov.
55:33Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you.