Dave Min Asks GAO Official: What ‘Time Frame Should We Be Looking At’ For Solving Government Efficiency?

3 days ago

During Wednesday's House Joint Economic Committee hearing, Rep. Dave Min (D-CA) asked Dr. Sterling Thomas, GAO Chief Scientist, whether there is an accurate time frame for artificial intelligence to solve government efficiency issues.

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Transcript

00:00Thank you, Chair Schweikert and Ranking Member Hassan.

00:03I'm really privileged to be on this committee and to be part of today's hearing on this very important topic.

00:10Obviously, when we talk about waste, fraud, and abuse, we all want to reduce this.

00:14We all want to eliminate as much as possible.

00:16Ensuring that taxpayer dollars are spent effectively is part of our mission here in Congress.

00:22And so, I'm very excited to hear about the possibility of what we can do to try to rein in some of these waste,

00:29wasteful actions.

00:31Every year, the federal government disperses trillions of dollars, as we know, across thousands of different programs,

00:37health care, infrastructure, defense, disaster relief, and on and on and on.

00:41And, of course, with this level of spending comes the inevitable challenge of effectively managing waste, fraud, and abuse.

00:47Historically, large organizations, including, I just want to note, private companies, big corporations,

00:53have all had to deal with this problem of waste, fraud, and abuse.

00:56And they've done so through manual audits and control systems.

00:59But the rapid development of technology over the past few years, including AI, as we're talking about today,

01:05give us a really transformative opportunity to try to run government better.

01:09We're talking about some very, very exciting potential here.

01:12That being said, I think it's important to also recognize that technological advances like AI

01:17are only going to be as good as the parameters we set for them.

01:20And these are fundamentally normative parameters we're talking about.

01:23So when we think about efficiency, we need to talk about the goals and timelines that are our mission here.

01:30Are we talking about just reducing costs?

01:32Are there other goals involved?

01:34What's the timeline we're looking at for efficiency or cost cutting?

01:36Is it immediate?

01:37Is it a year out?

01:38Is it 10 years out?

01:40All of these things matter.

01:41And I just want to give you an example here.

01:42When we talk about Social Security, despite a number of really bad and false and debunked claims

01:48about Social Security fraud recently, we know that Social Security has been a remarkably effective program

01:54and an efficient program.

01:55A very, very low percentage of fraud, always under 1% under any analysis,

02:00a very low percentage of overhead spent on that,

02:02less than 0.5% of the total program is spent on personnel and overhead.

02:08And until this year, the Social Security Administration was renowned for its remarkable ability

02:13to deliver trillions of dollars of checks consistently, securely, and on time.

02:19Are there ways to cut back on Social Security?

02:21Yes, of course.

02:23And we've seen Elon Musk and Doge do just that,

02:25attempting to fire 12% of the Social Security workforce.

02:28This has, though, led to lots of reports of delayed and missing checks,

02:33difficulty for seniors, including ones that have called my office,

02:35trying to find personnel that will deal with their problems with Social Security.

02:40So the question, of course, is what do we mean by efficiency when it comes to Social Security?

02:45Are we talking just about cutting costs?

02:46Are we talking about cutting costs now?

02:48Are we talking about other goals here?

02:50I would submit to you that I think what Social Security has done is get checks out to people.

02:54That is its mission.

02:56And so, again, when we think about AI and how it can improve efficiency across different agencies,

03:02those goals, the time frame that we're talking about, are important.

03:06I want to give you another example.

03:07I represent a vibrant life sciences industry,

03:09and I've heard a lot of growing concerns about the major cuts that have been made to staffing

03:14at the Food and Drug Administration,

03:16and that these will lead to longer approval times for new drugs and devices.

03:20In fact, if you look at the FDA structure,

03:22these staff are actually paid for largely by user fees from the companies seeking approval.

03:27So actually the cost, other than if you're looking at the very immediate time frame, is zero.

03:33But if your priority is to look for immediate spending cuts, the administration,

03:38the terminations of lots of FDA staff might make some sense,

03:40but beyond just the immediate present, it doesn't make any sense.

03:44And if you're looking at any other goals, including FDA approval, rapid approval of drugs and devices,

03:49these cuts look very inefficient.

03:51So I guess my first question to you all, just maybe I'll start with Dr. Thomas.

03:55When we talk about efficiency, what time frame should we be looking at?

04:00Very short-term or long-term?

04:02Well, we look at both.

04:04So we're looking at short-term efficiencies are where we've identified potential areas of concern

04:09and made recommendations of how to improve those areas of concern.

04:13And then, of course, with the long-term one,

04:15that gets into the system that you're using, a systemic challenge.

04:19And we identify opportunities there as well, sometimes as matters for Congress,

04:22sometimes as areas of attention for the executive branch.

04:26So we look at both of them.

04:27I want to ask Mr. Canarsa that same question.

04:30Yeah, that was a good answer.

04:31OIGs are in the same business.

04:33You know, there are short-term benefits.

04:34And then, you know, project out for the longer term for those bigger efficiencies that you're talking about.

04:38And I want to follow up with one last question for you, Mr. Canarsa.

04:41Do you think that Inspector General's oversight, transparency, disclosure,

04:46that these are important things that we need to have real efficiency in government,

04:50whether we're using AI or not?

04:53Absolutely.

04:54That's what the, you know, the IG Act was built on,

04:56was the value of independent, transparent, nonpartisan oversight,

05:01just so that the facts can be presented as to how to improve these agencies and their programs.

05:06So just to be clear, firing 19 Inspectors General would not improve efficiency?

05:09I mean, that, I should say that the OIGs themselves didn't go away.

05:15Their leadership was removed.

05:16So we're proud that the staff that's there and the leadership that has stepped up has kept that oversight going.

Dave Min Asks GAO Official: What ‘Time Frame Should We Be Looking At’ For Solving Government Efficiency?

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