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00:00Todd McShay breaking down Jalen Walker as a prospect.
00:06An edge rusher, off the ball linebacker, some versatility there.
00:10That has been linked to the Patriots by Mike Giardi earlier in the week.
00:14Giardi says he's got a lot of fans in the building here at Gillette.
00:18I will point out when McShay says,
00:21what's the difference between these two guys?
00:23Maybe a couple inches.
00:24Hello.
00:24I mean, I feel like...
00:26If that's all?
00:27If that's all we're talking, a couple inches can really, I would imagine,
00:32come into play.
00:32Not that I would know, but I would imagine that would come into play.
00:36So it's interesting.
00:38He's rising up boards, it seems.
00:40He says five is where you start talking about him, which is after the bats.
00:44Nine feels like the floor.
00:45Eight seems a natural fit in Carolina.
00:48For Jalen Walker, I just...
00:50I find this whole thing amusing where it's like every day it's like,
00:53oh, maybe it's Jalen Walker.
00:55Oh, maybe it's Will Campbell.
00:56Oh, maybe it's Mason Graham, right?
00:59And we're as guilty of that as anybody else.
01:01I don't mean to absolve us of that.
01:03We've spent a lot of time following the draft and talking about what could happen at four.
01:07But when names start coming out of what I would consider left field,
01:10where we've established now that a month's worth of conversation,
01:13and we're talking about pick four, we're not talking about pick ten.
01:15No.
01:16There's only so many things that can happen in front of the Patriots
01:18where prospects rise or fall,
01:20and a name comes out of what I would consider the woodwork.
01:22Guys can rise up, but between Membu and Jalen Walker,
01:27it's one of two things.
01:29Either we have too much time to talk about the draft and kick around,
01:31and now we're just throwing names out there.
01:33Very possible.
01:34Yes.
01:35Or the Patriots don't really know what to do it for
01:38because they don't love any of these guys.
01:39The guys they love are the obvious guys.
01:42Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter,
01:44and they don't really love any of these other prospects,
01:46which, by the way, I wouldn't blame them for.
01:49Well, I don't know that anybody really loves these guys.
01:50Well, perhaps that talk is,
01:52all right, well, what happens if you trade down, right?
01:54Because maybe it's not you're taking any of these guys to four,
01:56but it's like, all right, well, what if the player you really like
01:59goes off at three, and then you get blown away with the trade offer?
02:02What would you do?
02:03How far would you be willing to go down?
02:05And then who would you target?
02:06And then you'd have to figure another handful of guys' names
02:09would be off the board.
02:10That would be my hope,
02:11because Jalen Walker might end up being a great player in the NFL,
02:15but if they walked away with him in the first round,
02:17I'd be devastated.
02:19I'd be like, how do you do that?
02:20Like, I think it's either Abdul Carter or offense.
02:24So even the next best defensive player,
02:26he very well could be the next best defensive player.
02:30I don't want that.
02:31They were all defense in free agency.
02:33I think he's good, but I don't think he is, you know,
02:36what Abdul Carter could be.
02:38So that would be pretty rough.
02:40That would also be a tough sell to Drake May.
02:41Be like, hey, did you see that first round last night?
02:43What'd you do?
02:44Yeah, you know the defensive guy.
02:45We're beefing up that line.
02:46You're like, okay, great.
02:47Like, I needed somebody to throw to or somebody to block for me.
02:50So instead of rushing out and getting Harold Landry,
02:52could you have gotten me a wide receiver way back when?
02:54That would have been nice.
02:55Left tackle.
02:55That is a fair way to look at.
02:57Yeah, or a left tackle.
02:58Exactly.
02:58So I'm just starting to wonder if they're like a lot of,
03:01they don't love any of these guys.
03:02Yeah.
03:03And ideally, you said trade back.
03:05The problem is there may not be a match to trade back.
03:08I think we've highlighted this now for a few weeks on this show.
03:11Everybody says trade back.
03:12Well, trade back.
03:12Well, obviously, just trade back.
03:13It is an easy thing to say.
03:15What if you can't get what you want?
03:16Or what if you can't get fair value?
03:17What if you don't get a future first and a second and what it would take to move down?
03:22So if you're not getting that, do you just stand there and take your guy?
03:25Or do you just get the best offer, even if it's below market, to move down?
03:28Is that good business?
03:29So I wonder if the Patriots are just a little stuck.
03:33And the reason we hear names like Membu and now Jalen Walker and Campbell and Mason Graham
03:39and all these names kicked around, they're hoping for Carter or Hunter.
03:42Yeah.
03:42Maybe they're just trying to throw people off the scent.
03:44I'll allow for that.
03:45Maybe the mock draft community is bored.
03:47I wonder if the Patriots really have a guy that they are in love with and are going
03:53to pound the table for at pick four.
03:54I don't know that that guy exists.
03:56Here's still my hope.
03:57And yeah, you might be right about that.
03:58Maybe they don't love anybody or maybe they do love Carter and maybe they do love Hunter
04:01and they're just coming to the realization that those guys might not be there.
04:04However, I still go back to quarterbacks get overdrafted.
04:10Teams go crazy for quarterbacks because you can go back over the last just 10 years
04:14and take two weeks before the draft.
04:18Where was Zach Wilson going?
04:20Where was Trey Lance going?
04:21Where was Anthony Richardson?
04:24Baker Mayfield?
04:25Where were all those guys going just two weeks before the draft?
04:28And we've already seen plenty of talk of Shadur Sanders and Jackson Dart being in the top 10.
04:34So they're already in the top 10.
04:36So in the next week, could those guys go in the top five?
04:39Could those guys push one of the great players down to four?
04:42I still think, yeah, that is what I'm holding out hope for.
04:45And I think it's very realistic.
04:46Just to bring something up since you brought up the quarterback names.
04:50And maybe this is another example of what we were just talking about.
04:52Too much time.
04:53Mock draft community has too much time to talk about it.
04:55Start throwing out other scenarios out there.
04:58You're starting to hear a little bit of Jackson Dart could go before Shadur Sanders.
05:01It's fine.
05:02I don't care who it is.
05:03This is somebody.
05:04And I'm not a big fan of Dart specifically.
05:06No, me neither.
05:07This came out yesterday too, though.
05:09Lou Riddick on first take was talking about Shadur.
05:13And he says, I hope he doesn't go in the top three picks.
05:18I hope he doesn't.
05:19And I think his camp would tell you the same thing.
05:22There are other teams they want to go to.
05:24Where does he want to go?
05:26Well, do you think he doesn't want to go in the top three?
05:29Or you think it's starting to become clear he's not going to go in the top three?
05:31So they're putting that narrative out there.
05:33Can't fire me?
05:33I quit.
05:34Yeah, exactly.
05:34We didn't want to go to the Titans, the Browns, or the Giants.
05:37We actually have another team in mind.
05:39That's where we always wanted to go to New Orleans or whatever.
05:42We always wanted to go to Pittsburgh at 21.
05:44So Pittsburgh, maybe.
05:46Maybe.
05:46Maybe Pittsburgh because you're like, that's a team that's got a pretty high floor.
05:49It's got a good head coach.
05:51You can go in there.
05:52And, you know, as long as you're not Kenny Pickett, which I don't think he is, maybe you
05:57have some level of success.
05:58The other teams, like, you do want to go in the top three.
06:01You do want to be picked that high.
06:03That's just how it goes.
06:04And, look, that's Lou Riddick passing along that he thinks the camp feels that way.
06:08That's not a concrete report by any means.
06:10But I wonder if that's an indication that they know he's dropping.
06:14And if he's dropping, that's not, unless Dart is rising, that's not great news for the
06:18Patriots.
06:19I think Dart is rising.
06:20The question would be, is it just in response to Sanders falling?
06:23And is it sort of like a quarterback big board thing?
06:26Or is it like an overall big board thing?
06:28Because Jackson Dart, what, a month ago, probably wasn't a first-round pick.
06:32Like, we were arguing over who the third-best quarterback was.
06:34Everybody had a different answer at that point.
06:36Some said Jalen Milrow.
06:37Some said Dart.
06:38Your answer is Milrow?
06:40Milrow, to me, yeah.
06:40Same with me, yeah.
06:41Yeah, I think he is the third-best.
06:43I wouldn't take him in the first round.
06:45But then again, teams go crazy.
06:47They're afraid someone's going to snipe their quarterback or whatever else.
06:50So he still could.
06:52But yeah.
06:52Run and throw.
06:53We built like a brick house.
06:54Yeah, we certainly aren't alone.
06:55Why are you forgetting about that comment?
06:57That guy called months ago about Jalen Milrow.
07:00Yeah, he wanted to take him, like, number one overall, I think.
07:01Oh, it's September.
07:03Yeah, yeah, yeah.
07:03About Jalen Milrow.
07:04I think if I had to have Drake May.
07:05Well, but it was September.
07:07They lost a Vandy built the next week.
07:08No, but I think that guy.
07:09That did lose a Vandy.
07:10If I remember correctly, I think that guy was like, I don't even like Drake May.
07:14Go get Jalen Milrow, I think, was the reason for that comment.
07:17Well, either way.
07:18But yeah, no, it is wild.
07:20I love the fact that there is a lot of uncertainty still with two weeks to go.
07:24I mean, the one thing that seems like a lock is Cam Ward.
07:27But 2-3, we have no idea.
07:30I know Schefter's like, oh, Hunter, too.
07:31I was like, a week ago, you said Carter, too.
07:33So, like, next week that could change as well.
07:35I think it's going to be a fascinating top of the draft.
07:39Meanwhile, the Patriots have Abdul Carter in for a visit, a top 30 visit.
07:45It's, I'm sorry, on Monday, not today.
07:47Yeah, Monday.
07:47They're going to be doing it early next week.
07:49And he's only making four visits.
07:51It's the teams drafting 1, 2, 3, 4.
07:53Rap Sheet says this seems like the floor on Abdul Carter.
07:56Do you think he's dropping?
07:58Or do you think it's just Hunter's special?
08:01I think it's Hunter and quarterbacks.
08:02Okay.
08:03Yeah, so I still think...
08:04And you would view it the same way.
08:06You like Hunter over Carter.
08:07Yes.
08:07And if your quarterback is needy, they get pushed up.
08:09So you don't even necessarily disagree with that.
08:11No, I think he's the second best player in the draft.
08:14But I think two quarterbacks will still get sort of based on need will go.
08:18And then Hunter, which I don't think is really even a slap at Carter.
08:20So it's like, you got pushed down because of the Heisman winner who plays two sides of the ball?
08:25Like, okay.
08:26Now, if Mason Graham or Will Campbell or somebody like that gets picked ahead of him, then he's falling.
08:32And then it's like, all right, is it something up with his foot?
08:34Or like, is it worse than we thought?
08:36That would be more of a free fall.
08:38If he does pass the Patriots, if he goes fifth or sixth, then you're like, what happened there?
08:43So I wonder if it's injury.
08:45And we asked Kern about that the other day.
08:47He's like, I haven't heard anything on that.
08:49I mean, I don't know that anything is, again, concrete, firm reporting that he's going to miss time.
08:56Even if he was going to miss the start of training camp, there's a big difference between a rookie who you're going to have for five years
09:01and is in his early 20s missing the start of training camp versus a guy like Steph Diggs on a one-year deal in his 30s off an ACL injury.
09:08So I wonder if the medicals are an issue.
09:11McShay even said, and he was more talking up Jalen Walker.
09:14But he more said in that clip, well, Jalen Walker is a guy you want in your building.
09:20And you wonder if that's an indirect dig at Abdul Carter.
09:24Like, I'm okay with the guy if he is, you know, not the hardest worker or maybe not the best personality.
09:32On a crummy team like this, if you really believe in his talent, I'm more than okay with getting that guy in the building,
09:38cross the bridge with his attitude, his work ethic, all that stuff when you get there.
09:42I'm not overdrafting Jalen Carter at four because I like his work ethic versus the talent.
09:47I wouldn't do that.
09:48Yeah, I'm not in the spot to just draft all good guys.
09:50There was one draft that Bill Belichick took members like all team captains or something like that.
09:56The Tavon Wilson draft that one was Jordan Richards, I think.
09:58Oh, is it that one?
09:59Because you're like Jordan Richards in the second round.
10:01And then you look at the end of the draft.
10:02I think they were all like four or five year players.
10:05They were all like captains.
10:06And I'm sure at that point, they were all good guys.
10:08Now, they certainly didn't do that every year, but I think there was one year where they kind of prioritized that.
10:12I'm like, I don't know, get the guys that can play.
10:14And if there's a little bit of a question with Carter, then that's why you're paying Mike Vrabel all that money and Terrell Williams.
10:20Those guys should be able to get the most out of Abdul Carter.
10:23I'd take my chances with that.
10:24617-779-7937.
10:27What's the plan at four for the Patriots?
10:29Is there anybody they actually like?
10:32Good text here.
10:33617-779-7937.
10:36Guys, here's a thought.
10:36Maybe the Patriots know exactly who they want in the draft.
10:39Maybe.
10:39Maybe they're just throwing out a bunch of names and they're trying to just keep people off the scent.
10:42They don't want the Giants to fall in love with them.
10:44But if the guy's Hunter, you can know who you want.
10:46But because you're picking four, there's a lot of uncertainty.
10:49That's fair, too.
10:50I bet they like Hunter.
10:51I bet they like Carter.
10:52Well, Vrabel had that line last week, remember, where they were like, well, if you tell me who's going one, two, and three, I can tell you who we're taking it for.
10:59Being like, all right, they clearly, I think, like a guy or maybe two, but there's also a chance that neither are available.
11:05Yeah.
11:05So I don't know.
11:06I've heard enough names at four where maybe it's just a master class and they're manipulating the board.
11:11They don't want the Giants to talk themselves into somebody at three.
11:14They don't want the Giants to trade back and have somebody leapfrog them at three.
11:18And so they're just trying to throw people off the scent.
11:20Or maybe I'm just reading too much and the name's popping out of nowhere.
11:23But I wonder if they actually like anybody at four.
11:26And by the way, I wouldn't blame them if they don't.
11:28Most people don't like this draft.
11:30That's not a wild thing to suggest the Patriots may not like anybody at four since nobody really likes the draft outside of the top two guys.
11:37Let's go to the phones here.
11:38Our buddy Sorgia is in Mansfield.
11:40What's up, Sorgia?
11:42Jones and Keith, how are we today?
11:43Very good.
11:44So, like always, you guys are usually on top of things.
11:48And you guys remember a couple weeks ago you mentioned the nightmare scenario of taking Campbell at four.
11:55And that's given me a lot of anxiety because he doesn't feel a need because he won't be able to play left tackle.
12:01And I don't think as a talent he's that great.
12:03And I just really hope that Abdul Carter can fall into our laps because, like you said, Keith, we hear this every single year where Jackson Dart went from a second round and now he's a top ten.
12:16So, I think there's one of two possibilities.
12:18You either trade down and maybe get a guy like Ted McMillan or you trade up and secure it where you get Abdul Carter.
12:25But you cannot take Will Campbell at four.
12:28Yeah, I think.
12:30I mean, you'd take him at four if those other guys were gone.
12:32If it goes quarterback Hunter Carter, I would just take Will Campbell.
12:35I wouldn't want to get too cute.
12:36I'm not trading down for Ted McMillan.
12:38I don't want to trade too far down where you don't even get Will Campbell because you're like, oh, well, the Saints need a quarterback.
12:43So, maybe they move up to get the quarterback.
12:44If you go at nine, now you're really leaving it up to all these other teams.
12:49And then you're like, oh, we didn't get.
12:51You can't pick at four and miss out on four of your favorite prospects.
12:55You literally should get one of those guys.
12:57And I also don't love the idea of trading up only because you need these picks.
13:02You need even future picks.
13:04You need all these things.
13:05Yeah.
13:06So, I mean, look, maybe if the Patriots could move up a spot and because everybody wants to move down and nobody really wants to move up and nobody likes the draft,
13:13maybe you're able to move up a spot for less than it would traditionally cost.
13:18But I'm with you.
13:19Trade down sounds nice in a vacuum.
13:21But number one, what if you don't get what you want?
13:23But number two, what if you move down to nine or ten?
13:26New Orleans looks like a logical spot if somebody's going to move up for a quarterback.
13:29So, I think nine makes a lot of sense.
13:31What if you move down to nine and you miss out on your guys?
13:33You might have won.
13:34Keep trading down.
13:34You might have won on the trade chart.
13:36Like, you might have won on the Jimmy Johnson trade value chart.
13:39But great.
13:40What'd that get you if you don't get a guy that you wanted at nine or you envisioned being there at nine?
13:45And I don't know that I trust Vrabel to big brain it.
13:48I like what Vrabel's done in free agency.
13:50Yeah.
13:51And, you know, I think it's clear he's running the show.
13:54I didn't like the Milton trade.
13:55But do I trust Mike Vrabel enough to say we're going to move down and our guy's going to be there at nine?
14:02No, I didn't really even trust Bill to do that.
14:04And also, one thing I disagree with is I don't think you can say drafting Will Campbell doesn't fill a need.
14:10There's a chance, like every other guy, he's a bust.
14:12Or there's a chance, like every other guy, that, you know, maybe you have to move positions.
14:15But I think you're drafting him as a left tackle.
14:18And you at least are starting the camp with him at left tackle.
14:21Well, play something from Bedard coming up.
14:22But, like, you started to hear a lot of this, too.
14:24It's like, well, you could play him at tackle for a year.
14:26And he's better than what you have.
14:28And then maybe he'll kick inside the guard and be an all-pro guy.
14:30Well, that I don't want.
14:31But that doesn't sell me.
14:32No, me neither.
14:33I don't want him to be a guard.
14:34You drafted Cole Strange as a guard in the first round.
14:36And that was a huge mistake.
14:37I don't want him to come in and play tackle where he's just better than what you have at tackle.
14:41Which he probably is, if we're being honest.
14:42He's probably better than Bedarian Lowe as a tackle, even with short T-Rex arms.
14:46He's probably better than Bedarian Lowe.
14:48So, okay, fine.
14:49He's better than what you have.
14:50That doesn't mean he's worth the number four pick.
14:52No, that's pretty steep.
14:53That's literally drafting for need, which will get you, when you're a crummy team, I think, into trouble.
14:59A competitive Super Bowl contender can do that.
15:02A team at the bottom of the heap trying to get better and get better quickly?
15:05Drafting for need can get you into a big issue there.
15:08617-779-7937.
15:11One more thing from Breer on Jalen Walker.
15:13He says, I'm not a scout, but in talking to those who are, I would chase the ceiling of Walker and what he can be as a Swiss Army knife for your defense.
15:23Who's going to be a really good pro.
15:25Or, I'm sorry, over Will Campbell, who's going to be a really good pro, but may wind up being a guard.
15:30There's a little bit of this with Walker, too.
15:32And we were talking, Keith, because we're going to do edge players tomorrow.
15:36I view him as more of an edge player than an off-the-ball linebacker.
15:39He's kind of a tweener.
15:40Well, right.
15:41You can look at that as a positive with him.
15:42Where it's like, okay, this guy can move around the formation.
15:45He's a chess piece, and Vrabel will know how to use him.
15:47And I might buy into that to a degree.
15:49I like that more than a guy who is a tweener between a tackle and a guard where you've got to pick a spot.
15:53You're not going to be moving in between positions on the offensive line within a game.
15:56This guy you can move around based on down and distance and run situation versus passing situation and all these things.
16:02But I do wonder if it's versatility, or I wonder if, as you said, he's a tweener and he doesn't really have a fit.
16:09And, again, there's not a lot of airtight guys at four in this draft, which makes this draft unique.
16:15And it makes you really kick and scream about something we really kicked and screamed about in real time.
16:21Keep kicking and screaming.
16:22You screwed up the Buffalo game.
16:23Thank you for picking first.
16:24You had it right in front of you.
16:25This is why you don't screw up the Buffalo game.
16:27Not only that, but you use the guy for what end?
16:30He's not even on the team anymore.
16:31He's like, hey, we got a great game out of Joe Milton.
16:33He's not on the team.
16:34You got rid of him for a fifth-round pick.
16:35You showcased him and he got you a fifth-round pick.
16:37That wasn't even worth it.
16:39So you got nothing, and then you fired Mayo 10 minutes after the game.
16:43So that looked bad.
16:44Fire him 10 minutes before the game and then throw the game, and then you have the number one pick.
16:47We're not dealing with any of this.
16:48Also, real quick on Jalen Walker, one thing that I always kind of buy into this, when I probably shouldn't,
16:53because there's examples on both sides of it.
16:56But when there's teams that become like a factory, like look at Philadelphia's defense.
17:00It's unbelievable defense.
17:01Half of those guys from Georgia, I think half of their starting defense played at Georgia.
17:06So there's something also about, I don't know.
17:08Don't think, just throw.
17:09Yeah, like maybe another guy from Georgia could be really good on defense in the NFL.
17:14Yeah, maybe.
17:14Yeah.
17:14Might just work.
17:15Look, I think that's fair.
17:16And I don't know that I think it's a big need for the Pats at four, but if you have the best player available, I don't.
17:23But if they do, go for it.
17:24No, I still don't want him there at four.
17:25I'm just saying he could be good.
17:26No, of course.
17:27They all could be good.
17:28But I subscribe to some of that logic, like we were talking about before.
17:32LSU wide receiver, hard to go wrong.
17:34Kajon Booty?
17:35Yeah, so well.
17:36Could be good.
17:36So I get that logic.
17:38And yeah, especially when you look at a team like Philly, they've dipped into the Georgia well quite a bit.
17:42Oh my God, it's great.
17:43And it's worked out well for them.
17:45Although that is some logic that got Bill into trouble after a while.
17:47Ruckers.
17:48Ruckers.
17:49He took plenty of Alabama players.
17:51It seemed like he rarely took the right one.
17:52Hightower.
17:52No, Hightower's the one good one.
17:54Yeah, Cyrus Jones was a miss.
17:55Yeah, he had a lot of whiffs at Alabama based on his intel there.