During a Senate Homeland Security Committee hearing on Thursday, Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-NH) asked Trump nominees if they would follow a directive from the President even if it violated federal law.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Peters for this hearing.
00:04To the nominees, thank you for being here today, congratulations, and congratulations
00:08to your families, too.
00:10This is a big day for you and for them.
00:13Before I ask you some questions, I do want to say a quick word on the Trump administration's
00:18use of Signal, with a journalist included in the chat, to discuss the recent U.S. attack
00:23on Houthi terrorists in Yemen.
00:25It is imperative that a thorough, transparent investigation be conducted into the National
00:30Security Advisor's use of a commercial text application to discuss the timing of a U.S.
00:36military attack.
00:38This put our troops' lives at risk, and the fact that this administration won't acknowledge
00:42that is an insult to the men and women in uniform.
00:46We also know that members of the Trump National Security Council have used personal email
00:50accounts to conduct government business, and I hope that this committee will hold
00:55a hearing on this incredibly serious issue.
00:58I also just want to start, I was listening to the Chair about the need to fire the federal
01:06workforce, and I just want to talk about the impact that these random, arbitrary, mass
01:12firings are having on my constituents.
01:16Just this week, the administration essentially closed the entire office for LIHEAP, the Low
01:22Income Energy Home Assistance Program, established by Congress in 1981.
01:28It serves 6.2 million people from Maine to Texas, helped with their heat.
01:33New Hampshire, it was 30 degrees on Saturday and snowing.
01:37Maybe spring here, but it's not yet New Hampshire.
01:40In Texas, it's going to be real hot this summer, and one of the purposes of that program is
01:45to make sure that people can stay safe and cool enough in their homes during a blazing
01:51summer.
01:52So the administration, nothing transparent about this, they just shut the office, even
01:57though the money has been appropriated.
02:01So that's the impact on my constituents, at the same time, by the way, that the Trump
02:05tariffs are adding 10% to my constituents' home fuel bills.
02:11So this is real stuff, and when we talk about arbitrary firings, which is what this administration
02:17has done, we are talking about a level of harm to our constituents that is real and
02:23that does not meet the mission that was established by this Congress.
02:29So I would suggest that at OMB or at OPM, if you all want to gut a program, you better
02:35come back to Congress, because that's what the Constitution says you are supposed to
02:39do.
02:41Now, I also want to ask both of you a simple, straightforward question.
02:44It is something I am sadly having to ask of every nominee in this administration.
02:49If directed by the President to take action that would break the law, would you follow
02:53the law or follow the President's directives?
02:56Mr. Cooper?
02:57Thank you, Senator.
02:58I certainly do not expect the President to ask me to do anything to that effect, but
03:01I will 100% comply with all laws and with the Constitution.
03:04And Mr. Uhland?
03:05The President has made crystal clear, Senator, that he will follow the Constitution and the
03:11law.
03:12He will not ever ask inferior officers to violate the law.
03:17So it is very simple for me to answer the question that absolutely I am going to be
03:22able to follow the Constitution and the law.
03:25Well you know, Mr. Vogt sat here at this table, the person you are going to be reporting to,
03:30and told us that he knew better than the United States Supreme Court about the constitutionality
03:35of the impoundment law, which he is violating and the administration is violating.
03:39I am deeply disappointed that both of you seem to either not read the news or not observe
03:46basic facts, which is the President of the United States has been violating the law on
03:49a regular basis since he took office.
03:53Now I also just want to explore with you, Mr. Cooper, the limits of the OPM Director's
04:00authority.
04:01If someone in the administration, let's say Stephen Miller or Elon Musk, were to say to
04:06you, I need you to fire a veteran who works for the VA because they posted something online
04:11in their personal capacity that I don't like, would you fire that veteran?
04:15Thank you, Senator.
04:16My understanding of the OPM's restrictions are that we can provide guidance, but OPM
04:22does not have the authority to actually go in and to do firing.
04:24So if those were to happen, those would have to be conducted by the agencies themselves.
04:27Do you think it's ever appropriate to fire an employee, let's say, providing expert service
04:33at the VA because of their political views?
04:36I certainly think that we should make sure that we're evaluating people for the skills
04:39that are appropriate for what they're doing, and if those things are interfering with their
04:44ability to do their job, then that's worth discussing.
04:46But otherwise, we need to evaluate people based on the performance objectives of their
04:49role.
04:50And you do know what the First Amendment of the United States Constitution says?
04:53Yes, Senator.
04:54The government may not interfere with free speech.
04:57Now I have one more question.
04:58In January, President Trump, this is to you, Mr. Cooper, illegally fired several inspectors
05:03general, including the inspector general for OPM.
05:06Since then, in response to concerns that Elon Musk's Doge has improperly accessed the sensitive
05:11personal information of hundreds of thousands of Americans via OPM systems, the acting inspector
05:17general at OPM has confirmed that his office is looking into the matter.
05:22Will you commit to allowing the acting inspector general and his office to continue this investigation
05:27without any interference or retribution?
05:30Yes, Senator.
05:31As you and I have discussed, I think protecting data privacy is incredibly important, and
05:36we absolutely want a system where people have concerns that there's an appropriate way to
05:39investigate that.
05:40So you will commit to allowing the OPM's office of inspector general to operate without political
05:45interference in all matters?
05:47We will commit to do everything that is required under law to make sure that data privacy is
05:51protected and that the laws and regulations are followed.
05:53That's not, I'm sad to say, the answer I was looking for.
05:58I'd like to interject just briefly at this point.
05:59There are allegations...