During a Senate Homeland Security Committee hearing on Thursday, Sen. Elissa Slotkin (D-MI) questioned OPM Director nominee, Scott Kupor about restricting DOGE access to sensitive data.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Congratulations to you both. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:02Thank you, Senator.
00:03Senator Slotkin.
00:05Thanks for being here today and Mr. Kapor meeting in my office.
00:11My concern, as I raised with you in my office,
00:14is the security of the data of the people who
00:17serve in the federal government and in the US military.
00:21We had a conversation about how, when I was at the Pentagon,
00:24myself and tens of thousands of others
00:27had our data stolen by the Chinese government,
00:30a foreign actor who hacked our system
00:33and got a ton of some of our most sensitive information
00:38from OPM, so the agency that you're
00:42hoping to take over here.
00:44At the same time, we have reports
00:47that the DOJ folks are getting access to taxpayer information,
00:52to information for folks on Medicare,
00:55so sensitive health information.
00:58We see them now pointing their sights
01:02on military and veteran information.
01:06You are the ultimate arbiter of personnel policy.
01:10Give me some assurance that you're just not
01:12going to let Mr. Musk and the DOJ folks go in,
01:16take our data, put it into AI-enabled software,
01:20and use it for any other way than what people
01:25have given permission for.
01:27Yes, Senator, thank you.
01:28And I enjoyed the conversation we had together.
01:31I mentioned this earlier.
01:32I believe very strongly in data privacy, as we talked about.
01:35And when I'm running OPM, if I have the opportunity to do so,
01:39we will ensure that we protect data privacy
01:41and make sure that people who are not
01:43authorized to have access to systems
01:44will not have that access.
01:45Yeah, the thing that I'm looking for
01:47is just a little bit of backbone that when this is happening
01:50at another agency, right?
01:52So now they go into the Veterans Administration,
01:54or they go into the Department of Defense.
01:56They already went into the Treasury
01:58over the head of the Secretary of the Treasury.
02:00It's embarrassing.
02:02He came in front of Congress and said,
02:04I'm not going to let anyone have taxpayer information.
02:06And then literally in the same week,
02:08DOJ announced that they were taking all this information,
02:10sometimes on their own servers, that they brought
02:13into the departments and agencies.
02:15So I'm not looking for like, well,
02:17if they come to me with this specific problem,
02:19I'm going to raise my hand and do something about it.
02:23I'm looking to you as the person who
02:25will be the guardian of our policy on information
02:29on US persons, that you will stick up and say, hey,
02:33you know, I'm concerned that I'm hearing these reports.
02:36I'm going to go out and I'm going to proactively do
02:38something about it.
02:39So how do I know that you're not going to just be
02:41another Secretary of the Treasury who tells us
02:44one thing and then goes and gets his authorities just rammed
02:48over by DOJ and a bunch of 20-year-olds?
02:52Senator, look, I believe OPM is a really important part
02:55of the equation in the broader personnel system.
02:57And I will do as you're describing.
02:59I mean, I don't think it's appropriate for us
03:01to give access to systems if people aren't rightly
03:05available to see those.
03:06And I certainly think OPM can play a role there.
03:09I hope you do.
03:09We haven't seen that backbone yet, but I'm still hoping.
03:13Mr. Ueland, in your role at OMB, you know,
03:18I think about the movement of money
03:20and how important it can be to some of our communities.
03:22In Michigan, we just had terrible ice storms.
03:26We had 100,000 people without power.
03:28Still 50,000 people, approximately,
03:31right now in the northern part of our lower peninsula
03:34are without power.
03:36The governor's been up there.
03:37She invited President Trump to come and see it.
03:39We haven't filed a declaration of emergent federal request
03:42for help yet.
03:44But how do I know that if a state like Michigan
03:48asks for money from FEMA, does all the paperwork
03:51the way we traditionally do when we have an emergency,
03:55how do I know that you'll treat our state fairly,
03:58that you'll be objective about it,
04:00that you won't bring politics into it,
04:02and that you will administer the funds regardless
04:04of whether the state has a Democratic governor
04:07or a Republican governor?
04:09Senator, thanks for the question.
04:10If the state of Michigan or any other state
04:13makes an application through the appropriate FEMA channels,
04:16then they will be appropriately reviewed,
04:18and the president will have an opportunity
04:20to make a decision on those applications.
04:22If Michigan has not yet elected to make a submission,
04:25then there's really nothing we can react to right now.
04:28Of course.
04:28No, we would have to make that.
04:30My concern is that we've heard lots
04:31of rumors about the future of FEMA
04:33and the desire by the Trump administration
04:35to collapse FEMA, declare it no longer an agency,
04:38go to block grants, some other kinds of assistance.
04:42Do you have a view on the existence of FEMA
04:44since this committee oversees that body?
04:48Great question, Senator.
04:49And I'm old enough to have been young enough
04:51to be around when FEMA went through pretty
04:54significant expansion starting in the early 1990s
04:59under then-President Clinton.
05:01There is no doubt that the roles and responsibilities of FEMA,
05:05as well as many other organizations, agencies,
05:08and departments of the federal government,
05:10deserve a review, especially given
05:12some of the most atrocious, irresponsible, and long
05:18lingering do-outs that we've seen
05:20as examples of FEMA failures here
05:23in the past few years under the previous administration.
05:26So it's a calling from the president
05:31to take a look at FEMA, as well as a lot of other things,
05:35and see whether or not it's fit for purpose
05:37here in the 21st century.
05:38What's the role of states?
05:40What's the role of communities?
05:41What's the role of the private sector in moments of disaster?
05:45And that conversation, I'm sure, will be robust,
05:48both internally and with Congress.
05:50And I look forward to engaging with the committee on it.
05:52I think we're coming up on the term of limitations
05:54when we can blame others.
05:55You now own it, right?
05:56You're going to own it over there.
05:58And so we look forward to what you're
05:59going to do to make sure that FEMA or the capabilities
06:02of FEMA endure.
06:04The Secretary of Homeland Security
06:06was the beneficiary.
06:08So in any case, we look forward to you fixing it.
06:10And what you're going to do to make sure we still
06:12get that assistance out.
06:13Well, I appreciate that, Senator.
06:15And quickly, Mr. Chairman, before the hearing concludes,
06:18there have been a lot of requests
06:20this morning for an investigation about Signalgate,
06:23so-called Signalgate.
06:25I'm just here to say, on behalf of at least myself,
06:28just as an individual, knowing many
06:30of the people who are involved in that signal chain,
06:33those are men and women of the highest caliber.
06:35They serve our country with distinction.
06:38They had no intent, nor did they
06:40release inappropriate information
06:43to the general public.
06:44And the mission in which they were
06:45engaged on the direction and authority
06:47of the President of the United States was highly successful.
06:50Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
06:52Senator.