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00:00OK, so we're hearing about the military taking the Republican palace in Khartoum.
00:05I mentioned before this is the last heavily guarded bastion.
00:08The latest information we're getting,
00:10the Sudanese military saying this is a tipping point,
00:13this is the moment they start to get momentum in the conflict.
00:17Let's get a sense of whether that is the case.
00:19Let's bring in Ali Trao.
00:20He's a writer and analyst on African affairs,
00:22former peace negotiator on the Darfur peace track as well,
00:26who came to resolve the conflict in Darfur during the Juba peace agreement,
00:30signed back in 2020.
00:32He's here with us in the studio.
00:33Great to have you with us, Ali.
00:35Let's begin on what you're making of today's events.
00:40Well, thank you very much for inviting me to share my readings with you.
00:47If you allow me just before to deal with your question,
00:51I would like to make a few factual facts surrounding this war.
00:59Number one, what is going on in Sudan is more of an invasion, foreign invasion.
01:09That means foreign fighters backed by foreign countries
01:15and the militia of the RSF are just used as a tool.
01:23It's just useful idiots.
01:27They are not decision makers.
01:30They are not actual.
01:32They are just executing.
01:34And the purpose of this war, from the perspective of the invaders,
01:39is to divide the country and to destroy it.
01:43Number two, what I'm saying is substantiated by the behavior of the Janjahut itself,
01:48or the militia.
01:50It's just killing, looting, destroying, and even burning people alive, raping.
02:00All that shows what is going on in Sudan is more of an invasion.
02:07Now, coming to your question, I think what happened is a major shift of events,
02:20and it's a turning point, a strategic turning point,
02:25because if you look at the situation,
02:31just three months ago, the militia were, as they said, and also as the media says,
02:41were controlling 85% of capital.
02:44Not only that, but they were also controlling the entire region of Al Jazeera,
02:49the most populous and the most fertile part of the Sudan, including its capital Medeni.
02:55Now, within these three months, the militia is retreating and falling apart,
03:05and everything is getting out of control, and so on and so forth.
03:09Well, let me put to you, Ali, you talk about, in your view,
03:13your view clearly is with the Sudanese army.
03:16The UN has looked at the situation.
03:17The UN has analyzed the situation in Darfur,
03:19fighting and said there have been alleged war crimes committed,
03:22not just by the RSF, and they have been vast, including rape, sexual assault and killings,
03:26but also by the Sudanese army as well.
03:28There's no clean side that we're hearing from the UN in this.
03:31There's no good versus bad.
03:32There are different actors with different support, as you suggested,
03:36from different foreign interventions, support from the UAE,
03:39alleged to be continuing its support through getting gold from the RSF,
03:43but also Sudanese forces getting support from Egypt as well.
03:47So we're in this situation where it's been protracted for two years.
03:52And we're seeing these incredible images of the presidential palace,
03:56trying to explain why who takes the palace takes the capital,
04:02why that claim is there.
04:03Have you seen it?
04:04Just give us a sense of the city and why the palace is so important.
04:09Well, before that, I think...
04:12No, on that question first, then we can return.
04:14Why the palace is important?
04:16The palace is a symbol of the sovereignty of the country.
04:24And the militia were in control of the military headquarters,
04:28the airport and other major areas of installations.
04:35But the capital has a peculiar significance
04:41because it is a capital of the country.
04:45So I guess soon the entire administration will move into Khartoum,
04:58to the capital, and the republican palace.
05:05Do you think it will sway the international community
05:09into leaning further towards the Sudanese army
05:12if they manage to capture Khartoum,
05:14to be more of a legitimate force in this rivalry between two separate leaders
05:20who both believe for the rapid support force and for the Sudanese army
05:24they are the rightful continuation of, well, let's face it,
05:29of a non-democratic society.
05:31The idea was to pass the rule on to the people,
05:34and that hasn't happened, has it?
05:37Well, I think it is quite hard to talk about democracy
05:43and democratic transformation in the midst of the war.
05:48This has to be established first.
05:50Now the reality is that it is a war.
05:53This is one.
05:54Two, the issue of legitimacy or non-legitimacy,
05:58the army is a national institution,
06:01while the militia is a private militia.
06:05So I don't see any ground on how to compare on that.
06:11Well, these two men were both instrumental
06:14in the downfall of the former president,
06:17to which both of them played a part
06:19and believed that they had respected authority,
06:22to which now I'm sure you would agree on both sides,
06:25these two men essentially ripping the country apart
06:28with millions of people.
06:30This is described as the biggest humanitarian disaster in the world.
06:33There's about 12 million people as well displaced.
06:36On the face of it, you must look at both sides,
06:38even if you're supporting one,
06:40and realise this is not a situation
06:43that you would want to see right now,
06:45and there has to be blame towards the Sudanese army too.
06:49Well, I mean, it's unfortunate, of course,
06:52to have such a kind of disastrous humanitarian situation,
06:55but let's face the reality,
06:59because when the UN Security Council passed a resolution
07:03to call the RSF to lift the blockade from Al-Khartoum,
07:09that means naming and shaming.
07:13The army, as they are also involved in the conflict,
07:19of course there are always collateral damage,
07:24nobody can deny that,
07:27but I think at the end of the day,
07:30it is the militia, as I explained to you,
07:33because if you look at the behaviour of the militia,
07:36and this is not a claim,
07:38it is substantiated by major media and international organisations
07:42such as The New York Times, The Washington Post,
07:46the BBC, France Mail Card,
07:48everybody is reporting, the UN itself...
07:53Is reporting what? Everybody's reporting what?
07:55Everybody's reporting that the militia, the RSF committed...
07:59Atrocities?
08:00Atrocities that amount to war crimes.
08:04Yes, and the UN saying both sides to be investigated.
08:07Ali, thank you.
08:08Ali Trahi, I'm trying to make sense of the situation in Khartoum with us.
08:11Thank you for your time.