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00:00:00For the love of the horse. For generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room. My name is Bill Finley. I'm
00:00:32a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and also the co-host of the Down the
00:00:35Stretch radio show on Saturday mornings on Sirius Radio.
00:00:38How y'all doing? I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and also my side gig on the Buyer's Speed
00:00:44Figure team.
00:00:45T.D. Thornton here, stable mate of Bill's at Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:49All right guys. Well, the main action on the racetrack did not necessarily take place in
00:00:55the U.S. this weekend. It took place in the U.K. at Royal Ascot.
00:01:00And I know we were all looking forward to it. We previewed it last week.
00:01:05Randy, I thought the biggest story obviously was Augusta Dan winning again in the Prince
00:01:10of Wales.
00:01:11Same race, Innsboro didn't run very well at all.
00:01:14But what was definitely made it even more interesting was after it was over, Aidan O'Brien
00:01:20brought up the subject of this horse possibly coming for the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:01:25And I imagine he figures that, well, first of all, he said the horse worked really well
00:01:28on the dirt last year when getting ready for the Breeders' Cup Turf.
00:01:32And that gave him an indication that he could certainly handle the dirt.
00:01:35Boy, that would make it for a fun Breeders' Cup Classic if you were to come over.
00:01:38They've tried, they've tried, they've tried to win the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:01:42And oh my gosh, they've come close several times.
00:01:46But this is a horse that when he galloped in preparation for the Breeders' Cup Turf last
00:01:51year when he galloped on the dirt, O'Brien commented at the time and again now about
00:01:57how smoothly his action was over the dirt.
00:02:02And for this particular race, he was obviously trying to bounce back from a very disappointing
00:02:07performance.
00:02:08He's been kind of an enigmatic sort of horse as a two-year-old as well, at the beginning
00:02:14of his three-year-old year, actually.
00:02:16And so they made the determination before this last race at Royal Ascot to be a little
00:02:21more aggressive with him during the early part of the race, to put him into the race
00:02:26a little bit more and not lag well back in the pack like he had been running previously,
00:02:31like he did in the Breeders' Cup Turf last year.
00:02:34And that seemed to work pretty well.
00:02:35That seemed to do the trick.
00:02:37And it also gave the boys at Coolmore a little more confidence that if they do decide to
00:02:43try the dirt in the Breeders' Cup Classic, where he obviously will have to be ridden
00:02:47a bit more aggressively in the early stages, that he can handle that and that he might
00:02:51even prefer that.
00:02:53As far as in Spiral, she did hesitate a bit at the start, but not so dramatically that
00:03:02you wouldn't think she had no chance.
00:03:05Even considering that, she ran well off her normal form.
00:03:10So it'll be interesting to see if John Gosden can get her back on track before the Breeders'
00:03:16Cup this fall.
00:03:18And with regard to Auguste Rodin, not only were they trying to put him into the race
00:03:22a little earlier, they're trying to also maintain that fine line of, you know, Brian had said
00:03:27he does have a tendency to wait on horses a little bit when he makes the lead.
00:03:31So you have to pop the move exactly correctly, and he certainly did it last week.
00:03:37And it was a fantastic Royal Ascot, by the way, for Coolmore, for Aiden O'Brien, for
00:03:42Ryan Moore, who, you know, who once again, I mean, they probably, I think, 12 to 15 times,
00:03:49I think, they've all been the champions at Royal Ascot.
00:03:53At the end of every five-day Royal Ascot meet, they crown the owner, trainer, rider that
00:03:59had the most success.
00:04:00And those guys point for Royal Ascot, and they had a fantastic five days again this
00:04:06year.
00:04:07Well, Randy, one person that was not a rousing success at Ascot was Wesley Ward, and obviously
00:04:12every year he's going to bring over what you think is the best team of horses to come from
00:04:17America.
00:04:18He brought four, all two-year-olds this year.
00:04:20And this is where they finished, 10th, 20th, 16th, and 24th.
00:04:27And Randy, I'll give you credit, take a bow.
00:04:29You said last week on the show, you didn't think these Ward horses were nearly as good
00:04:33as some of the others he's brought over to Royal Ascot in recent years.
00:04:38First of all, why did you think that?
00:04:39And then how about the end results?
00:04:40Well, I mean, going way back, I mean, to Lady Aurelia and even before, and some horses since,
00:04:48like Crimson Advocate and some others, when Wesley gets them going in this country as
00:04:53two-year-olds, it's typically at Keeneland in those four-and-a-half-furlong baby races.
00:04:59Sometimes recently at Gulfstream Park in those five-furlong turf sprints that give horses
00:05:06a free pass into Royal Ascot.
00:05:09And we're accustomed to seeing the Wesley Ward horses, some of them, just be eye-catching
00:05:17and win by large margins and run four-and-a-half-furlongs in fast times and look like, wow, I mean,
00:05:22these horses could be anything.
00:05:25This year, not so much.
00:05:26I mean, the horses that he sent to Royal Ascot this year, one of them won by a pretty good
00:05:31margin at Keeneland, but ran against extremely weak competition and ran in slow time.
00:05:38None of them really gave you that sort of wow that Wesley Ward's horses had done in
00:05:43the past.
00:05:44And even some of those wow horses didn't run very well at Royal Ascot when they were faced
00:05:49against the tough competition that you see in those mega fields of two-year-olds that
00:05:55you have to run against.
00:05:56So I just didn't think it added up to success this year for Wesley Ward.
00:06:01But he loves Royal Ascot, he's always going to try with his best two-year-olds, and he's
00:06:06been the benchmark for American participation over there.
00:06:11And Wesley even was on the record himself as saying, he was kind of introspective about,
00:06:16he's tailed off quite a bit here, perhaps it's a regression to the mean, but he did
00:06:20point out when he first, about 15 years ago, had the horsepower to go over there, it also
00:06:25coincided with a time when there wasn't as much rain prior to the Ascot meet.
00:06:31The track was drier, a little harder, a little more conducive to those speed horses, and
00:06:36that hasn't always been the case in the past couple of years.
00:06:41The one horse from the U.S. that didn't disappoint was Gabaldon, who ran second in the Windsor
00:06:46Castle, one of the major two-year-old races, and trained by a really, I think, up-and-coming
00:06:51trainer, Jose Delgado.
00:06:53And he had won one of those Royal Palm preps at Gulfstream, had won the male division,
00:06:58came in, ran a really good race.
00:07:00That was the type of thing, to me, if I'm the trainer or the owner, sure, I feel bad
00:07:03about getting beat, got beat second by a length, but at the same time, I just am overjoyed
00:07:08that the horse ran as well as he did.
00:07:10Yeah, you know, those races have been pretty effective.
00:07:16There's not a lot of sample size.
00:07:18Royal Palm has been in existence for that long, the filly and the colt races, but they've
00:07:22done a pretty good job as far as sending horses to Royal Ascot that have been competitive.
00:07:27For handicappers, for bettors, it's just so tough to figure out which of the horses from
00:07:33the United States will be able to succeed at Royal Ascot, you know, will see their form
00:07:39transfer effectively.
00:07:41Sometimes you get horses that don't run all that fast here that go over there and seem
00:07:46to relish it.
00:07:47And then, like some of those Wesley Ward horses in the past, you know, that have won in the
00:07:51equivalent of like, you know, a buyer speed figure of 90 or close to it, will go over
00:07:56there and not run very well.
00:07:57It's really, really hard to figure out, but that horse ran a very strong race.
00:08:03In a 27-horse field, and this is, Gabaldon is a $9,000 yearling, so he would not be one
00:08:08of those horses that you would have projected to be even competing at Royal Ascot, let alone
00:08:13finishing on the board.
00:08:16So Randy, I touched on a lot of subjects.
00:08:17What else had Royal Ascot caught your attention during the fabulous five-day meet?
00:08:22Yeah, a couple of the other headlines.
00:08:24An American-owned horse by the name of Porta Fortuna, who was just narrowly beaten in the
00:08:31Juvenile Phillies Turf by Heart to Justify last year, won the Group One Coronation Stakes
00:08:36and did it in, you know, pretty eye-catching fashion, trained by Donika O'Brien.
00:08:41And because of the American ownership, she is already, you know, being pointed to come
00:08:46back to run in the Breeders' Cup this fall.
00:08:49There's another mare from Australia by the name of Asfora, who won the race that used
00:08:55to be called the King's Stand, the five-foot-long sprint race.
00:08:58Now it's the King Charles.
00:09:01That was a Breeders' Cup challenge race, and her connections, when they found out the Breeders'
00:09:06Cup this year is at Delmar, and they've heard so many good things about Delmar, they've
00:09:10already been on the record as saying that if Asfora continues to run well this summer
00:09:17and this fall, the Breeders' Cup will definitely be in their plans.
00:09:21And another one to watch, it's another Coolmore, Aiden O'Brien, Ryan Moorhorse, who won the
00:09:26Chesham Stakes on Saturday for two-year-old fillies, a filly by the name of Bedtime Story,
00:09:32right?
00:09:33Won that race by nine and a half lengths.
00:09:37And as we've seen in the past, you know, anytime Coolmore and Aiden O'Brien have a very fast
00:09:43two-year-old filly, even two-year-old Colts, the Breeders' Cup seems to almost always be
00:09:49at least in consideration if she continues to do well.
00:09:53TD, anything to add to that?
00:09:55I think Randy summed it up pretty well.
00:09:57All right.
00:09:58Very good.
00:09:59Well, thanks for that, Randy, and a great week at Royal Ascot, and we look forward to
00:10:01all guys for Dean coming in and racing in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:10:05Hopefully that is where he'll wind up.
00:10:07TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:10:09Congratulations to the connections of Shareholder, winner of the Group 2 Norfolk Stakes Thursday
00:10:14at Royal Ascot.
00:10:15Shareholder was bred in Kentucky and was a $62,000 graduate of last September's Keeneland
00:10:19sale.
00:10:20Make plans to attend this fall's Keeneland September sale, starting September 9th.
00:10:24Be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:10:27At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:10:37Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:10:45Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard.
00:10:49Not for our sake, but for theirs, for the love of the horse for generations to come.
00:10:59This week, the fastest horse of the week is brought to you by Global Campaign.
00:11:03Winner of the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm, Global Campaign had another winner on Friday,
00:11:08his second.
00:11:09When two-year-old Philly Warming looked pretty good, winning a six-foot-long $90,000 maiden
00:11:15special weight on the turf at Aqueduct.
00:11:17That was her career debut, and Warming won that race by two-and-three-quarters lengths.
00:11:21Global Campaign, of course, is a racehorse.
00:11:23Not only won the Grade 1 Woodford Stakes, Woodward Stakes, excuse me, just like a sire
00:11:28in Kirkland, with a 104 buyer, but he's a half-brother to Bolt Dorough, the champion
00:11:33first crop stallion of 2022.
00:11:36Global Campaign, the Woodward winner, stands at Windstar Farm for a fee of $12,500.
00:11:43Fastest horse of the week ran on Saturday at Churchill Lounge in the Chicago Stakes.
00:11:48Her name is Vava, and she's got to be considered an early contender for the Breeders' Cup Philly
00:11:54and mare sprint.
00:11:55Vava won the Chicago as a two-to-five favorite.
00:11:58It was just a five-horse field by a length and a quarter, but that was her fifth win
00:12:02in her last six races, all at the seven-foot-long distance of the Philly and mare sprint.
00:12:09The only defeat was a half-link loss to Alvastar in the Madison Stakes of Keeneland that she
00:12:13subsequently avenged at Churchill Downs.
00:12:17Vava's buyer speed figure in the Chicago week high, 99.
00:12:22Fastest horse of the week, Vava, owned by Belladonna Racing and Lynn Hudson, trained
00:12:26by Cherie DeVos.
00:12:27She was ridden by Irad Ortiz.
00:12:33As always, our Guest of the Week segment on the TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by
00:12:37The Green Group, a tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:12:44Now we're joined by our Green Group Guest of the Week.
00:12:46It's one of the hottest jockeys on the globe, Flavien Pratt.
00:12:49Flavien, thanks so much for joining us.
00:12:51And first question I have for you is about the three-year-olds, which we're going to
00:12:54be talking a lot today, and the new shooter.
00:12:57You rode him for Chad Brown in an allowance victory Saturday at Aqueduct.
00:13:00He won very easily for the second straight time.
00:13:03What do you like about him?
00:13:04What is his future?
00:13:05What I like about him, he's running fast.
00:13:10Now he has done everything right.
00:13:17He was, before his first race, everybody liked him and he was training well going into his
00:13:24first race.
00:13:25He ran well and came back even better and then ran a good race in Aqueduct.
00:13:33Follow-up question for you on that.
00:13:34It was interesting.
00:13:35That was the same day that Catching Freedom ran as the favorite in the Ohio Derby.
00:13:38You had been riding him.
00:13:39What were the circumstances?
00:13:41Did you actually choose to stay in New York to ride Ultimate Wisdom or was there more
00:13:45to the story than that?
00:13:46No, it was one of those situations where it was either I was going to the Ohio Derby or
00:13:54I was staying in New York and give a chance to see what Unmatched Wisdom could do.
00:14:05I don't know.
00:14:06I just felt like I was going to try to see what Unmatched Wisdom could do.
00:14:13He ran a good race.
00:14:14So, Flavio, before we dive into some of the other stuff, let's keep it with the three-year-olds
00:14:20and talk Sierra Leone for a second.
00:14:24Going into the Belmont, everybody knew about his lugging in situation, his habits, the
00:14:32bit change and things like that.
00:14:35And watching the Belmont stakes, at one point, like at about the three-eighths pole maybe,
00:14:40I'm like, my God, he's going to be 20 lengths.
00:14:43He's going absolutely nowhere.
00:14:46And then all of a sudden, belatedly, here he comes.
00:14:50What were your thoughts on the kind of race that he ran in the Belmont stakes?
00:14:55Well, I had pretty much the same thought as you.
00:15:01It seems like that day the track was pretty fast and it was very hard to make ground.
00:15:08I was not traveling at all down the backside.
00:15:14It felt like the first quarter was quick and I was okay where I was.
00:15:19I was trying to get him into a rhythm and I figured once I get down the backside, I'll
00:15:25pick up a few horses and as it goes, he'll start building momentum, but that was not
00:15:33the case.
00:15:34I was struggling to get some momentum and he finally turning for me, finally made a
00:15:45good run.
00:15:46So yeah, it was not as expected, but the last part of the race was good and so hopefully
00:15:54we can build something up for the future.
00:15:58He's obviously got a huge amount of talent locked in there.
00:16:02So what's the solution?
00:16:04Not that he's running poorly, is it just going to be maturity?
00:16:08What else can be done at this point?
00:16:10Well, I think, like I said, I don't think the track suited him that day.
00:16:18I don't feel like he was very comfortable on the track, but hopefully he'll go back
00:16:25to Saratoga.
00:16:26Usually in the summer, the track is a bit slower and we'll go from there.
00:16:31We'll see what happens.
00:16:34Have you spoken to Chad Brown about a commitment for the ride back?
00:16:37Are you going to be riding him back in the Jim Dandier Traverse or has that yet to be
00:16:41decided?
00:16:42I don't know what Chad is going to do with him, but obviously he has a few options and
00:16:49I'm sure I'll pick the right one.
00:16:51Flavin, I want to switch subjects for a minute, but there's something that's so interesting
00:16:55to me.
00:16:56I want you to talk to us and give us a feeling of what it's like to ride flight line and
00:17:01how does that feeling aboard him feel different than virtually any other horse you've ever
00:17:06ridden?
00:17:11Very small individual.
00:17:14It's really strange.
00:17:15It felt like he knew he was the star.
00:17:19He was obviously very fast and could carry the speed for forever.
00:17:23I mean for a mile and a quarter at least, so yeah, he was very powerful.
00:17:29He had a great way of moving, well balanced, and he was very good in the turns.
00:17:35It felt like when he hit the turn, for whatever reason, I never moved on him on the turn,
00:17:43but for whatever reason, every time he swapped lead, he would pick up a length or two on
00:17:48everybody else.
00:17:49What was going through your mind in the Pacific Classic when you almost did a Ron Turcotte
00:17:53on Secretariat where it looked like you looked behind you and almost couldn't believe that
00:17:58he was so far in front?
00:18:00Was that your reaction at the time?
00:18:03Yeah.
00:18:04If I recall, he ran the mate mile and we're going from a mile to a mile and a quarter.
00:18:11He was running, I think, country grammar at the time.
00:18:14He was running against in the Classic.
00:18:18I felt that country grammar couldn't maybe make a run on us, so I'm down the backside
00:18:26and we get to the turn.
00:18:29From there, I let him run and then took a peek behind and realized that all of a sudden
00:18:36we were 20 lengths in front.
00:18:39It was shocking.
00:18:40It was a very good feeling.
00:18:43Without flight line, Flavien, you've certainly kept the ball rolling.
00:18:46We're taping this on June 25th.
00:18:49Right now, you've made just a touch under $13.4 million in purse money.
00:18:55That's a record for your career at this stage of any year.
00:19:00You're practically riding first call for Chad Brown.
00:19:03You're in the Charlie Appleby barn.
00:19:05You're riding the best horse in the Bob Baffert barn.
00:19:07You're in with Brad Cox.
00:19:09Things seemingly couldn't be going better.
00:19:11I know in 2022, when you made the decision to relocate from Southern California to New
00:19:16York and Kentucky, it raised a lot of eyebrows.
00:19:19Looking back on that decision now, what do you think about it?
00:19:24Yeah, I mean, gratefully, as you say, I'm riding for great connection, very fortunate.
00:19:31My agent's doing a great job and so everything is going well right now.
00:19:36Yeah, I thought it felt like it was the right move at the right time.
00:19:43It was a time where I was in California for probably six or seven years and it just felt
00:19:51like it was time to try to do something else and explore a little bit of the East Coast.
00:19:59I had the opportunity to ride for some trainers on the East Coast and so yeah, I thought it
00:20:07was just the right time to do it.
00:20:09That did seem like a very natural progression for you, Flavien.
00:20:13Let's maybe roll the clock back a little further.
00:20:17You started riding at age 16 in your home country of France.
00:20:21You were a champion apprentice the year later and you only began riding in winters in Southern
00:20:27California in around 2009.
00:20:31We look at the way your career has taken off and just blasted off since then.
00:20:37What do you wish, what do you know now with the experience that you've gained here in
00:20:41North America that you wish you knew when you were starting out?
00:20:44That was quite a bold move to be able to switch your tack from France to Southern California.
00:20:50What do you know now that you wish you knew then?
00:20:52That's a good question.
00:20:55No, I was, when I was riding in France, everything happened very quickly.
00:21:03So I rode the first, I think the last three or four months of the season and then I had
00:21:11a full season as an apprentice and I was so best apprentice and but it happened very quickly.
00:21:17I was very young.
00:21:18I don't think I was ready for that.
00:21:24I was putting in position where a lot was expected from me and I don't think I was ready
00:21:30for that.
00:21:34But it was good because then I went to a smaller racetrack.
00:21:39I was riding less quality horses and I had to fight on my way and it was hard, but it
00:21:51was a good thing because then I came here and I was starving and I wanted to do well
00:22:00and I think at that time then I was ready to do better.
00:22:05Flavien, you have won a Kentucky Derby, of course, officially 2019 with Country House,
00:22:10but I've read that you really don't look at it that way, that it's sort of what we call
00:22:13a hollow victory, of course, because he was put up through disqualifications.
00:22:18Do you feel that you're a Kentucky Derby winner already or do you feel I still need to get
00:22:22my first real Derby win?
00:22:25Well, I did win the Kentucky Derby, but obviously not in a, I mean, it's not how you want to
00:22:36win it.
00:22:37You know, you don't cross the finish line first and all that thing and hopefully, you
00:22:42know, I would be very fortunate if we can do that again.
00:22:47But, you know, regardless, yeah, I won the Kentucky Derby.
00:22:52One of the things that we horseplayers have noticed, Flavien, is that more than you would
00:22:59expect, I think, for riders coming from Europe, particularly from France, you and in particular
00:23:09also Florent Giroux have mastered the art in this country of being aggressive early
00:23:18in races when the situation calls for it.
00:23:23How long did it take you to adjust that way to American racing and do you see that as
00:23:29an advantage?
00:23:33I don't know how long and I probably still, you know, I mean, I'm still learning anyway,
00:23:39but it's, yeah, I came here and I didn't want to have that tag of a turf rider.
00:23:48That was the main, I didn't want that.
00:23:51I love dirt races.
00:23:53I think I'm a big fan of dirt races and I didn't want to have that tag.
00:23:58So I did everything to make sure I was able to perform on the dirt.
00:24:06And so, yeah, I mean, obviously, dirt races, you need to be aggressive at some point and
00:24:12you need to put yourself in a good position, you know, going into the first term.
00:24:19So yeah, it's something that I always try to improve, that's for sure.
00:24:26Flavien, as you continue to learn, you said you're always learning.
00:24:31Take a look back at the earlier stages of your career when you were trying to cement
00:24:35those habits and get them part of your routine and your makeup.
00:24:39Who was a jockey that was a great influence on you and maybe what was the best piece of
00:24:43advice you ever got from a veteran rider?
00:24:47I don't think there was one, you know, one rider that I picked, but obviously, you know,
00:24:55you look at the, when I was in California, obviously, Mike Smith, you know, it's one
00:24:59of the riders that is one of the best palmares and it was, yeah, it was somebody that, you
00:25:06know, I like to look at and very easy to talk to and, you know, can give you advice.
00:25:15But no, there's been a lot of, you know, rider that I watch, but I'm not, there's not one
00:25:22in particular.
00:25:23Flavien, it's interesting to me that, and maybe people don't all know this, you know,
00:25:29going way back in your career, you're the son of and from a family of standard bred
00:25:33trotting trainers.
00:25:35And that was where you originally stood out.
00:25:36Two part question.
00:25:37Why'd you make the switch to thoroughbreds?
00:25:39And did you ever dream of winning the Prix de l'Amérique more so than the Kentucky Derby?
00:25:45No, so I love trotters, that's, you know, I've been around trotters all my, as a kid,
00:25:57but I was very small, very light, and I felt like it could be a, you know, I always liked
00:26:06thoroughbred as a kid and I thought, you know, if I can make it as a thoroughbred rider,
00:26:12I would like to try.
00:26:14So before I went to the school, the jockey school, I went to two different trainers and
00:26:22I spent two weeks with each just to make sure I liked it and I did.
00:26:28And so then after that, I went to the jockey school and that's about it.
00:26:33I just didn't want to, the harness business, it's a lot family related, you know, a lot
00:26:39of people work with their parents and all that thing.
00:26:43And I just want to do my own thing.
00:26:45I want to do something different and, you know, be able to do my own thing.
00:26:50Well, since things are going so well for you right now, Flavian, if you're ever tempted
00:26:54to ride in a charity harness race, ask around about what happened to Lafitte Pincaille
00:26:59when he did that 34 years ago in 1990 and got thrown into the air like a rag doll and
00:27:06wound up breaking his collarbone and all sorts of other injuries.
00:27:09Be careful if you ever decide to do that.
00:27:12I heard the story, but actually I did it last year in Saratoga.
00:27:17But I think Lafitte, when he drove, he drove a Pacer and they have their four legs tied
00:27:26up.
00:27:27So I don't do that.
00:27:28I'll just stay with the harness, the trotters.
00:27:32Flavian, you're riding right now in a very competitive time as far as the North American
00:27:37Jockey Colony is concerned, and you're riding in New York, also spending some time shipping
00:27:43out to bigger races at other prominent tracks, wherever the grade one races are.
00:27:49Talk to us a little bit about your fellow riders, your rivals, your friends.
00:27:54Who is the one jockey that, when you're going down, setting down a horse in the stretch,
00:27:59you don't want to either see coming after you or you don't want to see that you have
00:28:03to reel in?
00:28:04Somebody that's...
00:28:05No, I think, as you said, there's a very good group of riders right now.
00:28:16And I mean, you know, when you ride a race and you have Johnny Velasquez, Javier Castellano,
00:28:22you get the Ortiz brothers, I mean, there's like so many good riders.
00:28:28But it's fun.
00:28:29I think it makes all of us better and it's fun to ride with all those great riders.
00:28:34All right.
00:28:35We want to thank Flavian Pratt, a great interview.
00:28:38Congratulations on all your recent success, Flavian, and boy, it's going to be a fun Saratoga
00:28:42with you battling it out with so many great riders, including Frankie DeTorre.
00:28:45So Flavian, we'll catch up with you again soon.
00:28:47Congratulations again on all this year's success and thanks for spending some time with us here.
00:28:52Thank you for having me.
00:28:53Thank you again.
00:28:54As the Green Group Guest of the Week, Flavian Pratt will receive a free one-hour text consultation
00:29:00from Lynn Green et al. at the Green Group, who over the years has saved a lot of money
00:29:05on the tax bills, especially of those who participate like Flavian in the thoroughbred
00:29:10industry.
00:29:11To find out more about how the Green Group can assist you when it comes to tax time,
00:29:15just log on to greenco.com.
00:29:18When it comes to the horse industry, tax laws are complicated and unique.
00:29:22That is why most people overpay on their taxes.
00:29:25Why not get a second opinion from the top-rated accounting and tax firm in the thoroughbred
00:29:29industry?
00:29:30With over 800 clients in the horse business alone, the Green Group has the expertise to
00:29:35save you taxes.
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00:29:41the Green Group as their tax advisors.
00:29:44We save you taxes.
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00:29:51best racehorses in the history of the sport.
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00:29:58honors.
00:29:59Lynn Green's in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge combined with current-edge tax-saving
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00:30:10The Green Group will give you a complimentary and confidential review of your tax return.
00:30:16Contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:30:27So the racing over the weekend, this is kind of one of the dullest periods actually of
00:30:30the year.
00:30:31The post-Belmont, pre-Saratoga, Delmar period, you don't get a whole lot of action.
00:30:35But the Ohio Derby won last year by Randy Moss' all-time favorite horse, two fills,
00:30:42did give us something to talk about at Thistledown.
00:30:43By the way, the first racetrack I ever went to in my life when I was six years old, Thistledown.
00:30:48I was actually born in Cleveland, guys, if you didn't know that.
00:30:52So many, many years later, Bill Mott comes in with a horse behind him, battened down,
00:30:57and on paper, it looked like this race was ripe for somebody to steal it on the front
00:31:02end.
00:31:03Catching Freedom was the huge favorite and he really didn't have it.
00:31:06Battened down, went right to the front, and actually the first quarter was pretty fast,
00:31:1022 and change.
00:31:12So it's not like he was able to sleepwalk on the lead.
00:31:16So I would probably make the same comment about any Ohio Derby winner, as I'm going
00:31:21to say about him.
00:31:22Yeah, he looked good, but who did he beat?
00:31:25And can he, I don't think Mott has said, Bill Mott has said anything about where his next
00:31:30stop is, but you would think he would be looking at the Haskell Travers Jim Dandy.
00:31:34But I think when he gets into deeper waters, probably will not emerge as one of the top
00:31:39three-year-olds, but he's very well bred as a great trainer.
00:31:42You never know.
00:31:43You know, he did go very fast early and he went slow late.
00:31:47And the final quarter of that race, the fourth quarter of that race rather, was a hair over
00:31:5226 seconds.
00:31:53And he matched speed figures.
00:31:55He ran a 93 in his first maiden win over a mile and a quarter at Churchill, came back
00:32:00with the same number.
00:32:01But I concur with you, Bill, that I'd have to say it's, I can't say whether he's moved,
00:32:06he's probably moved forward in terms of his own progression.
00:32:09However, I can't say where he stacks up against the rest of the crop at this point.
00:32:13Yeah, I totally dropped the ball.
00:32:16I don't know what I was, it was raining where I live on Saturday.
00:32:19I don't know what the hell I was doing, but I knew we were going to be talking about the
00:32:22Ohio Derby.
00:32:23So I thought, okay, I'll just log on.
00:32:25I'll watch the replay after the fact.
00:32:28I'll look at the past performances to get ready for the podcast and all that.
00:32:32And so Saturday evening, I logged on and saw it and looked at the PPS first before I looked
00:32:37at who won the race.
00:32:39And then I looked at the race in the chart.
00:32:40I cannot believe that Catching Freedom was two to five and Batten Down was almost seven
00:32:48to two.
00:32:50It's mind boggling.
00:32:52I would have made a pretty substantial wager, I think, on Batten Down if I had been paying
00:32:57any attention.
00:32:58It had my head out of my butt.
00:33:00Look, I mean, Catching Freedom is a confirmed closer.
00:33:03There was no speed in this race to compete with Batten Down.
00:33:07Batten Down had earned speed figures that were competitive to Catching Freedom.
00:33:11And you're running on the dirt, right?
00:33:13You've got a horse who's extremely well-bred in Batten Down who was improving.
00:33:17You've got a horse who's going to control the pace.
00:33:19You got a horse who's trained by Bill Mott, ridden by Junior Alvarado.
00:33:24There was a lot to like about Batten Down, especially at three to one when Catching Freedom
00:33:29was two to five.
00:33:31So I thought it was no surprise whatsoever.
00:33:34But yeah, I mean, you can't really think going forward that Batten Down is going to
00:33:40be a Sierra Leone, Mystic Dan type horse, but boy, in this spot, in the Ohio Derby,
00:33:50for a purse of, what was it, $500,000?
00:33:54I mean, what a good spot for Batten Down.
00:33:57And you talk about the pedigree, okay?
00:34:00Batten Down is a full brother to Tacitus, who made $3.7 million in his career.
00:34:08He was a very difficult horse to figure out throughout his career, but he made a whole
00:34:12heck of a lot of money.
00:34:14Scylla, who's a four-year-old filly right now who is really running well and looks like
00:34:19she could be a factor in the Distaff Division.
00:34:22And now Batten Down, all three of them are by tappet out of the mere close hatches, who
00:34:28herself won five grade one races and $2.7 million.
00:34:33So one of these dirt pedigrees at Juddmont Farm, that's just absolutely spectacular.
00:34:39And there was just a lot to like about Batten Down, I thought, in the Ohio Derby.
00:34:43And the favorite taking it on the chin in the Ohio Derby continues a trend that we've
00:34:47seen counting the past three Triple Crown races and the four Road to the Kentucky Derby
00:34:53prep races that were run in April and one in March.
00:34:57We've now seen six of the last seven of those races produce beaten favorites.
00:35:01And the three Triple Crown races were won by horses who were 18 to one, nine to one,
00:35:05and 17 to one.
00:35:06So it really, it's tough to latch on to one particular horse heading into the second half
00:35:10of the season.
00:35:12The other three-year-old race of note over the weekend was not a stakes race, but an
00:35:15allowance race Saturday at Aqueduct won by Unmatched Wisdom, a horse that had come in
00:35:20for Chad Brown, a three-year-old off a very impressive win in a maiden special weight
00:35:25race.
00:35:26He was a big, big figure that day.
00:35:27Comes back to the next level at the first level allowance race.
00:35:30I believe he was one to five, which figured he, he, and he ran like a one to five shot.
00:35:35He won quite easily for Chad Brown.
00:35:38And even though he's only won twice, you know, he deserves now to be in the conversation
00:35:43as well.
00:35:44I talked to Chad yesterday trying to figure out where he's going to go with each of his
00:35:46horses.
00:35:47And the most likely spot for him is the Curlin Stakes.
00:35:51That's the one they run the day before the Jim Dandy that is, has some sort of restrictions
00:35:55to it.
00:35:56So it's not, it's not an open stakes race, but obviously this horse would qualify if
00:35:59he wins that.
00:36:00He can go in the Traverse.
00:36:01He told me that he would, wouldn't mind running Sierra Leone against Unmatched Wisdom in the
00:36:06Traverse if it came down to that.
00:36:07But then I get down, I had a nice back and forth on my radio show with Dave Grenning
00:36:12at the Daily Racing Forum.
00:36:14And he said, I'm not going to get excited yet about this horse until he beats somebody.
00:36:18And he made, he made a good point.
00:36:20You know, here's a horse that has looked fantastic, but you know, in this allowance race, I mean,
00:36:25he bet horses, he beat horses that were hopelessly overmatched, but I think he's a prospect.
00:36:29But again, I think Dave Grenning is right.
00:36:32He needs to prove it at a higher level.
00:36:34Yeah.
00:36:35And his first start on May the 10th at Aqueduct, the horse got sick as a two-year-old, which
00:36:39is why his debut was delayed.
00:36:42There was, it was a pretty speed favoring kind of day that day.
00:36:45He got a 98 buyer, but the jury was still out just a little bit, a 93 buyer last time
00:36:52on Saturday at Aqueduct, but it was at a mile and an eighth.
00:36:54I texted with Chad this morning.
00:36:56The Kirtland is definitely, I think, where he's looking at right now that it's in four
00:37:02weeks that then that'll give him five weeks between the Kirtland and the Travers, still
00:37:07kind of tossed up as to whether to run Sierra Leone in the Jim Dandy or just to wait for
00:37:14the Travers for him.
00:37:16So look, I mean, the horses has, he's got a decent pedigree, not spectacular.
00:37:22He's by Cairo Prince out of a pure prize mare.
00:37:25It's another Clarvage stable horse.
00:37:28He's a horse that runs near the front end where Sierra Leone obviously is just the opposite.
00:37:33So you can kind of cover both your bases there.
00:37:35Mile and a quarter.
00:37:36It looks like it won't be much of a problem.
00:37:38He's an interesting horse and exciting horse to follow going forward.
00:37:42So this is the time of year where we, you know, now I think officially we are into the
00:37:46second half of the season.
00:37:48The summer is here.
00:37:49The Ohio Derby was the first graded stakes race for three-year-olds during the summer.
00:37:53And you know, we can reevaluate the group and try.
00:37:56I think the thing to do now is, you know, we know who won these previous races.
00:38:00Nobody is standing out from the crowd.
00:38:02Everybody's taking their turns.
00:38:03Who are going to be the horses that are going to excel in the second half and, you know,
00:38:07perhaps cinch up that three-year-old championship or maybe even be one of the favorites in the
00:38:12Breeders' Cup.
00:38:13So just the TDN did a good job over the last couple of days giving a rundown of where all
00:38:17these horses are going to run.
00:38:19Let me just go through that.
00:38:20As Randy just mentioned, Sierra Leone is either the Jim Dandy or the Travers.
00:38:25Torpedo Anna, no one Kenny McPeak.
00:38:28He's going to do something bold here with the Philly.
00:38:31She's going to go likely in the CCA Oaks next, but then the Travers would be possible.
00:38:36Ultimate Wisdom, as we said, likely the Curlin Stakes.
00:38:39Batten Down, I have no idea.
00:38:41Mystic Dan, the Travers, then the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:38:44And how about this?
00:38:46Todd Pletcher has two very nice three-year-olds in his barn in fierceness, in mind frame.
00:38:51They are both being pointed to the Haskell, according to Todd Pletcher.
00:38:56I think he told that to the Naira Notes team.
00:38:59So he was looking to run both of them, which I was a little surprised.
00:39:01Why wouldn't you run one of the Jim Dandy and one of the Haskell, though he may still
00:39:04do that.
00:39:05Dornach has not had a workout yet after the Belmont.
00:39:07I have no idea where he's going.
00:39:09Sees the Gray, has had his first work back just the other day.
00:39:13Have not heard where he's going.
00:39:15T.D., you can kick this off.
00:39:17When we're doing this podcast in the middle of November, who are we talking about as the
00:39:21best three-year-old in the country?
00:39:23Right now in June, I'm talking about the horse who I thought was the kingpin back in April
00:39:28when we were trying to decide whether a lawsuit would allow the Bob Baffert trainees to get
00:39:32into the Kentucky Derby.
00:39:34And I'm going to hang my hat on Muth.
00:39:36He was the morning line favorite for the Preakness.
00:39:38He had to scratch out of that race because of a fever.
00:39:41This is the winner of the Arkansas Derby.
00:39:43And he is being pointed for the Haskell.
00:39:47He checks a lot of boxes on my list.
00:39:49Consistency, reliability.
00:39:51He's athletic.
00:39:52He has an all-business way of going.
00:39:54He doesn't seem to be at the mercy of the pace.
00:39:58He makes his own breaks.
00:39:59He doesn't seem to be one of those horses who needs a certain trip to excel.
00:40:03At least he's extricated himself from some kind of dicey spots where he had to go up
00:40:09and after horses in the Arkansas Derby, for example, and still withheld some late closers
00:40:15there.
00:40:16I think he's the one to beat.
00:40:17And you can watch the Haskell stakes, by the way, on NBC Sports.
00:40:21What a race that's going to turn out to be, it looks like.
00:40:23And, you know, who knows what's going to happen with Nysos?
00:40:26I don't know.
00:40:27I haven't talked to Bob about Nysos lately.
00:40:28He hasn't breezed since February.
00:40:31But earlier this year, Bob was hoping to be able to get him back for the fall.
00:40:35And Baffert unveiled, not unveiled, but he won another stakes race a couple of weeks
00:40:39ago, the Affirm Stakes at Santa Anita with a three-year-old named Parenting who drew
00:40:44off and won very impressively in a decent figure.
00:40:47So, you know, Bob is loaded as well.
00:40:50Yeah, but it is wide, wide, wide open now as we head into the second half of the year.
00:40:56I've got to throw my weight behind MindFrame.
00:41:01And, you know, let's remember the obstacles he had to overcome to run well in the Belmonts.
00:41:07This was, the Belmont was his third lifetime start.
00:41:10I know the game has changed and, you know, 30, 40 years ago, the Belmont would have been
00:41:14his ninth or tenth lifetime start easily.
00:41:18And so you do get lightly raced horses in here.
00:41:21But the horse had no, didn't have the experience, had never run anywhere close to the mile and
00:41:24a quarter distance.
00:41:26He was, and he finished second in a really good effort, was very green and I think might
00:41:31have won if, you know, he didn't kind of zig and zag a little bit in the stretch.
00:41:37I got to expect a lot of improvement for him and I want to see what he does going forward.
00:41:42And then, you know, what about fierceness?
00:41:44Is he going to be, I mean, you have no idea what to do with this horse.
00:41:48See it's always good race, bad race, good race.
00:41:51So he should be in a good race in the Haskell if that's where he goes.
00:41:55But, you know, until this horse puts this odd pattern of him behind him, I can't get
00:42:01too excited about him.
00:42:03Then Mystic Dan, you know, nobody's talking about him.
00:42:06Nothing wrong with him.
00:42:07I mean, he won the Derby and ran really well in the Preakness and then didn't have the
00:42:11best showings in the Belmont Stakes, but he could really jump up in there.
00:42:14And also Torpedo Anno, if, you know, there's one trainer in the country that will run her
00:42:19against the boys, it's Kenny McPeak.
00:42:21He loves to take bold shots.
00:42:22So I mean, in some ways I'm agreeing with you guys, just saying that and saying that
00:42:28there's several candidates.
00:42:30It's very wide open.
00:42:31But, you know, if I had to pick one, it's going to be Mindframe.
00:42:34So let me roll out an interesting scenario and get your guys' opinion on this, OK?
00:42:39So let's just suppose that for the rest of the year heading into the Breeders' Cup Classic,
00:42:44nobody really jumps up and takes the three-year-old male division by the neck, right?
00:42:51It's still wide open, and the Breeders' Cup Classic is going to determine who the three-year-old
00:42:56champion will be, OK?
00:42:58So now we get to Delmar, and who wins the Breeders' Cup Classic by two and a half lengths
00:43:04but forever young from Japan, making his second start of the year in the United States after
00:43:11possibly being the best horse in the Kentucky Derby, OK?
00:43:17Would anybody, would you guys consider at that point, with two starts in the United
00:43:21States, making forever young the three-year-old champion?
00:43:25I would.
00:43:26I wouldn't.
00:43:27The two would make the big difference.
00:43:29I hate, I don't like voting for the European turf horses that come in and win the one race
00:43:33in the Breeders' Cup.
00:43:35But if he would, having had the two races, including, you know, such a good performance
00:43:39in the Kentucky Derby, I mean, it's all hypothetical.
00:43:42We don't know.
00:43:43Sure.
00:43:44Some horse will win the Haskell Travers and Pennsylvania Derby, though that's unlikely.
00:43:50But yeah, that's, you bring up a really good point, Randy.
00:43:52I think under that scenario, I would vote for him for three-year-old champion.
00:43:56But now, is he definitely coming back, and is he going to run anywhere else in between?
00:44:00No, they're planning on running him in Japan at least once and maybe more, but the Breeders'
00:44:05Cup Classic is on their radar, yes.
00:44:08There you go.
00:44:09T.D., would you vote for him?
00:44:11It's funny that you should bring him up in that type of a scenario, because as I was
00:44:15preparing for the podcast, I was looking back at my marked-up Kentucky Derby chart and going
00:44:21through the rundown notes that I made, and I was saying, well, who have I, I need a refresher
00:44:26here, who have I been really looking forward to running back?
00:44:28One of them was Dornach, because I think he was totally out of his element in the bluegrass
00:44:33stakes, and he just got trouble-tripped in the Derby unmercifully.
00:44:40Then I looked down the list, and I said, well, Fierceness, he's been on my bet-against
00:44:43list for quite some time, so I'm looking forward to him running again for the purposes of wagering
00:44:47against him.
00:44:48And I said, who else am I looking forward to running, to seeing in action again?
00:44:52And Forever Young was really the only one that came up.
00:44:57I think that in that spot, he's got a legitimate chance.
00:45:01I don't get too caught up in who I would vote for, because I don't participate in the voting
00:45:05for the championships, but he's got to be considered a major player if he comes over.
00:45:11The TD and Writer's Room brought to you by the PHBA, the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders
00:45:15Association.
00:45:16There were two stakes races for PA-bred three-year-olds on Monday night at Parks.
00:45:22Don't Look Back At All won the Power By Far stakes under Irad Ortiz.
00:45:27He was 1-5, or she rather, was 1-5, bred by Steve Young's A1A Racing.
00:45:34And then Treveso won easily for his owner breeders Greg and Caroline Bentley, and that
00:45:39was in the Crowd Pleaser stakes.
00:45:41Both of those races were worth $100,000.
00:45:45So do you want to get in on some of that PA-bred money you've got?
00:45:49Only until June 30th to nominate your PA-bred or PA-sired two-year-old to the PA-sired series
00:45:56at the $1,000 nomination price.
00:45:59We'll make you eligible for the three sets of $100,000 stakes for two-year-old colts
00:46:04and fillies, and also one for three-year-olds.
00:46:08Here's what you do.
00:46:09Go to pabred.com, check out the featured section on the homepage, send in the nomination form
00:46:14with your $1,000 fee, postmarked by June 30th, and voila, you are in.
00:46:18Any questions, contact the PA-bred office, 610-444-1050.
00:46:27The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program in the entire United States.
00:46:33When you buy a yearling, it's a little bit like buying a lottery ticket, and we are trying
00:46:36to provide the lottery ticket that the likelihood is to hit the jackpot.
00:46:41Angel of Empire wins the Arkansas Derby and wins it clear.
00:46:45Uncle Heavy laid it's a photo finish!
00:46:49Pennsylvania and the PHBA have the best state-bred program in the country bar none.
00:46:53The winner, Uncle Heavy.
00:46:54He's a three-year-old bred in Pennsylvania.
00:46:58So yesterday, Mr. Thornton had a lot of work to do because we got a decision out of the
00:47:02Supreme Court about HISA.
00:47:05Now I've got a lot of things I want to say about this, but why don't we start this way.
00:47:08TD, you wrote the story, you understand this as well as anybody.
00:47:11Just give us the nuts and bolts of this first.
00:47:14When you hear HISA and Supreme Court in the same sentence, obviously it's going to send
00:47:18off some alarm bells and people are going to flock to those type of stories.
00:47:23I will have to say this, it all gets confusing because of the many overlapping lawsuits
00:47:27that have been either contested or are still in play.
00:47:32I would have to preface my comments by saying this is not the ruling we were waiting for.
00:47:37This is the ruling that has to do with Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Louisiana, who already
00:47:43lost an appeals decision in the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals in the federal court system,
00:47:49and they wanted a second look at that.
00:47:51Their first option was to go to what's called an en banc hearing, which is, they say to
00:47:56the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, hey, the three judge panels said it's constitutional,
00:48:02we want the entire, I believe it's a 28-judge panel, to reconsider it.
00:48:07The Sixth Circuit said, no, we're not going to do that.
00:48:10Their only other option, and their only other recourse, and I can't blame them for taking
00:48:13it, was to say, hey, Supreme Court, United States Supreme Court, will you take a look
00:48:17at this?
00:48:19They made that request, they filed some documentation, the folks from HISA also filed their documentation,
00:48:28but there was never any oral arguments before the Supreme Court.
00:48:31It never reached that level, and the decision that came out on Monday, June 24th, was simply
00:48:37a one-liner amongst many other decisions in a format that's released once a month by the
00:48:43Supreme Court that said, no, this is a case we are not taking.
00:48:48They didn't issue a written ruling, they hadn't considered it the way that we think all of
00:48:52the judges get together and consider and write opinions, they just said, no, it's a no-go.
00:48:57So does that set a precedent at the Supreme Court level?
00:49:00In a way, it does, but the ruling that we're actually waiting for, that everybody has kind
00:49:05of been on pins and needles in the racing industry, whether you're for HISA or anti-HISA,
00:49:11is the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, and we've been waiting for that one since oral
00:49:15arguments got heard last October 4th.
00:49:18This is the lawsuit led by the HBPA and its affiliates, and some other folks who also
00:49:23have joined the lawsuit.
00:49:25It's been lingering in the court system for three years, since the spring of 2021.
00:49:30It is challenging HISA on constitutionality grounds.
00:49:34Initially, that lawsuit was filed in 2021, it was dismissed in 2022, the HBPA appealed
00:49:43that to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, and in November of 22, that's when the Fifth
00:49:49Circuit Court of Appeals said, yes, HISA is unconstitutional, you are correct, HBPA.
00:49:56What happened was the enacting law that enables HISA got sent back to Congress.
00:50:03That in December of 2022 was when Congress gave it a one or two line tweak, President
00:50:08Biden signed it.
00:50:09It's been in action ever since, except in the states, the several states where there
00:50:14is a stay preventing it from going into effect.
00:50:18But that's been the law of the land nationwide since then.
00:50:21So what happened when that new law got written, the HBPA came back and said, well, we want
00:50:30to appeal that again, and that is what has been argued before the Fifth Circuit Court
00:50:34of Appeals.
00:50:35Again, it's been lingering for almost nine months now since last October.
00:50:38It's a little overdue for the decision, but you don't tell a federal court of appeals
00:50:42what their timetable is, but it is a little bit longer than we might've expected.
00:50:45I think a lot of people were expecting a ruling by the end of 2023.
00:50:49It didn't happen.
00:50:50We're still waiting.
00:50:51Now, why is that important?
00:50:53Because if that ruling comes back out and says, no, the rewrite in December of 2022
00:51:00did not fix the constitutional, alleged constitutional defects, that is going to be what sets up
00:51:06the Fifth Circuit saying, no, it's not constitutional.
00:51:09The Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals is already on record as saying it is constitutional.
00:51:14And that, to bring kind of a long winded end to this, this explanation is when the Supreme
00:51:19Court would very likely get interested in somebody escalating it up to that level, because
00:51:24you would then have two federal appeals courts with conflicting opinions.
00:51:29We don't have that right now.
00:51:30We didn't have that when the three states, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Louisiana asked
00:51:35the Supreme Court to hear it.
00:51:37So I'm not surprised it got shot down.
00:51:39TD, wouldn't you think though, and I know what you're saying about the Fifth Circuit,
00:51:42that's still going to be the most important story, but you know, wouldn't the judges on
00:51:46that court be influenced by the Supreme Court, you know, basically not, not, you know, ruling
00:51:53one way or another, but since we don't even care about it, it's not going to bother.
00:51:56They wouldn't exactly be going against the Supreme Court, but the, the message was loud
00:52:00and clear.
00:52:01Do you think the Fifth Circuit judges will look at this and consider that when they make
00:52:06their ruling?
00:52:07And, and would, and would one reason why there was such a delay in the Fifth Circuit courts
00:52:14action on this, could that possibly be because they knew that the Sixth Circuit Court appeal
00:52:19to the Supreme Court was in the offing and they wanted to purposely wait to see whether
00:52:25the Supreme Court took it up or not?
00:52:27Those are both, yes.
00:52:28Those are both valid points in my opinion, and I think they're obligated to factor that
00:52:32into their, into their decision.
00:52:35Well the only other thing I would say, I mean, I hope this is all much, almost over with
00:52:39the court challenges.
00:52:40It's just, you know, chewed up so much time and an exhausted, you know, resources, mental
00:52:44resources, financial resources, et cetera.
00:52:47And you know, I have a lot of mixed feelings about HISA.
00:52:50The thing that my biggest problem with them is, you know, these drug positives for people
00:52:54that obviously didn't do anything wrong and they have, you know, the little rinky-dink
00:52:59positives.
00:53:00But something that came out of this and was even mentioned in the, in the press release
00:53:06put out by HISA after the court decision, or the Supreme Court's non-decision actually,
00:53:12you get back to this number that they have reduced equine fatalities, and they're not
00:53:16solely responsible for this, but under HISA, equine fatalities are down 38% in the first
00:53:21quarter.
00:53:22If anything else, that's the reason why you should be for HISA, because there's now numbers
00:53:29that show that they are making the game safer.
00:53:32And you know, I hope all these other states, which all happen to be blue states, this is,
00:53:36you know, not unlike our own politics, everything else in the country.
00:53:39It's red versus blue, it's conservatives versus, you know, moderates and liberals and whatnot.
00:53:44But I just wish, I would hope that at some point all these people would just throw in
00:53:47the towel, say we can't win this thing, and then just, you know, let's go forward and,
00:53:52you know, we don't like the law, but we're going to do the best we can by it.
00:53:55Before HISA came into effect, one of the big criticisms about it was from trainers and
00:54:05owners who felt that they would be sort of imperious, and they would try to be heavy
00:54:12handed in many of their rulings, and they wouldn't listen to common sense.
00:54:18They wouldn't go back and repair some of their mistakes, that they would create havoc.
00:54:25And I think one thing that we've seen in HISA's credit, is that when things don't seem to
00:54:29be working, such as the metformin situation right now, but there have been numerous others,
00:54:34they have been very willing to listen and to make adjustments and tweaks along the way
00:54:41that have improved the process.
00:54:42And I think when we saw what happened in Louisiana recently, I think HISA had a lot
00:54:48to do, along with Churchill Mounds Incorporated, with, you know, steering the ship in Louisiana
00:54:54and the Louisiana Racing Commission in the right direction.
00:54:59That of course, when the Louisiana Racing Commission wanted to make just about everything
00:55:02legal, do whatever you want, you know, give them clenbuterol, give them rocket fuel, give
00:55:07them, you know, anything goes, which is probably about the worst idea in the history of horse
00:55:13racing.
00:55:14T.D., anything else on the subject?
00:55:15No, I just, I concur with a lot of what you guys said.
00:55:19And HISA is being, I think, more responsive than a lot of people thought they would be.
00:55:25However, there has been a fair amount of collateral damage on the way, and there doesn't seem
00:55:29to be anything happening to redress some people's careers who've been upended and their lives
00:55:38have been really knocked out of whack, not for the better.
00:55:41So I don't know what they can do.
00:55:42I don't propose an answer, but there has been a fair amount of collateral damage along the
00:55:46way.
00:55:47No doubt about it.
00:55:48Hey guys, I was handicapped on the weekend races and I was doing, going over the Laurel
00:55:51card for my TV show and, excuse me, for my radio show, and the feature race on Laurel
00:55:57on Saturday had a three horse field.
00:56:01And it was in a dirt race, of course, and, you know, so you look at that and you look
00:56:06at the situation, and right now we have, I counted, eight tracks within about 400 miles
00:56:13of one another, all running against one another.
00:56:16Presque Isle, Penn National, Charlestown, Monmouth, Laurel, Colonial, Delaware Park,
00:56:20and Parks.
00:56:21There's no horses out there.
00:56:22There's simply not enough horses to go around to fill this glut of racing that is involved
00:56:29with the Mid-Atlantic Circuit.
00:56:31And you don't hear a lot of talk about this anymore.
00:56:33It used to be a much more important factor in horse racing, and that is that you have
00:56:40circuits.
00:56:41And matter of fact, there used to be a Delaware Park, Maryland circuit.
00:56:47Then later on, there was a Laurel Park slash Pimlico Colonial Downs circuit, and I'm sorry,
00:56:53Colonial Downs is in the mix.
00:56:55They opened July 11th with a meet now that is very, very strong, $60,000 maidens.
00:57:01They have the August 10th Arlington Million.
00:57:04But I just wish somebody would, you know, can somebody look at this, and to me, I think
00:57:10Laurel is the track, and they might do it because they're going to soon be under new
00:57:14management of the Maryland, whatever the heck they call that thing.
00:57:19But it's time for a Laurel, and I'm not just picking on them, but you had a three-horse
00:57:24field for your feature race.
00:57:25Can you just take off the summer and build up a circuit, free shipping down to Delaware
00:57:30Park for all our horsemen?
00:57:31We'll run Maryland-bred races at Delaware Park so that those guys don't get a bad deal.
00:57:37You know, this is one of the biggest problems facing racing, and this is nothing new, but
00:57:41these short fields and there's too much racing, nobody seems to want to do anything about
00:57:45it.
00:57:46You know, I think one of the things that goes in conjunction with that is when Laurel's
00:57:54turf course opened in 2005, the new and expanded turf course, 142 feet wide, six different
00:58:02rail positions, it was billed as a game-changer for Maryland racing, and in a lot of ways,
00:58:07it was.
00:58:08It became more of a grass-centric destination state for trainers.
00:58:12It boosted field sizes, it boosted handle, which in turn, of course, boosts purses.
00:58:17Now with Pimlico, you know, once we have this changeover where, yes, Laurel's going to host
00:58:22racing while the Pimlico Plus project gets built, but at some point in the middle term,
00:58:28Pimlico is going to be the only game in town in Maryland racing.
00:58:32Their existing turf course is seven furlongs and 70 feet wide, and from my understanding,
00:58:37looking at some of the plans, that's going to be basically the same dimensions of whatever
00:58:42new course gets put in there.
00:58:44And Pimlico only, you know, Pimlico used to run a summer meet, then they stopped for a
00:58:49while in the early 2000s and picked it up a few years ago.
00:58:53And that was key because that running at Pimlico for a little bit in the summer gave the Laurel
00:58:58turf course a break.
00:59:00Now, I just don't see how Pimlico, once it gets up and running as the last track standing
00:59:08on the Maryland circuit, I don't see how that turf course is going to handle summer's racing
00:59:12and then bookend it with the spring and the summer.
00:59:15I mean, the turf course at Colonial, it's 180 feet wide, it's renowned as one of the
00:59:20better turf courses in the country, and it's also that 180 number, it's exactly 180 miles
00:59:26south of Pimlico.
00:59:27I think there has to be some sort of schedule or some symmetry or a circuit worked out here.
00:59:34And one further point before I let Randy have a say is, last December, I covered the University
00:59:40of Arizona Symposium of Racing.
00:59:42And this was one of the topics that came up about racetracks closing and consolidating.
00:59:47And I went back and I looked up today, a comment from Chris McAlearn, who's the vice president
00:59:52of racing at Penn Entertainment, which owns Penn National.
00:59:56And he was very forthright at that symposium last year when he brought up the comment that
01:00:01said, in the mid-Atlantic, we have all these tracks running, every year we say, why don't
01:00:05we form a circuit?
01:00:07And it never gets done.
01:00:08And his exact quote was, we are our own worst enemies in that respect.
01:00:12I'll make a prediction.
01:00:13I think within the next five years and maybe sooner, it will get done out of necessity.
01:00:19These tracks can't survive long term in a situation like this.
01:00:24This has been going on at least for 40 years.
01:00:27I mean, I've been hearing about this, about all the competition, overlapping dates and
01:00:33all that in the Northeast for so, so long.
01:00:37But there were enough horses to go around back then.
01:00:41You had the problem of cannibalizing bettors and things like that.
01:00:46Then simulcasting, full cart simulcasting came along, and that seemed to help a little
01:00:50bit as well.
01:00:51But now, as Bill pointed out, there are not enough horses to go around, and they can't
01:00:57keep going down this road.
01:00:59So we're either going to see a situation where racetracks are going to have to close or else
01:01:04they're going to have to come together and form these circuits.
01:01:08And I think a key point you mentioned, Bill, is the shipping.
01:01:12I don't know why these tracks can't get together and each put up money and have free shipping,
01:01:20free vanning going on from track to track to track, whichever track is running at the
01:01:25time.
01:01:26And maybe it's a situation where you can have one track running in the day and another track
01:01:29running at night and no competition during the day or night for those particular racetracks.
01:01:34But it has to get done or else you're going to see a lot of blood on the floor.
01:01:40Randy, my take would be it'll never happen because it makes too much sense.
01:01:44Generally, things in racing that are like that, oh, I shouldn't be a wise guy.
01:01:49But I think you're right out of necessity.
01:01:51And I think it would be Maryland that would be the first one to blink and cut back on
01:01:57their racing schedule.
01:01:58But it's no fun betting on three-horse races.
01:02:01Public obviously hates that, and we definitely do need to fix that.
01:02:05And once again, Colonial opens on July 11th for a 27-day meet.
01:02:09Very excited.
01:02:10They're getting Michael Stidham, Mark Cassius stalls there, Christophe Clement, Cherie Devaux.
01:02:14That's really a meet that doesn't get a lot of attention, but it's got very good purses
01:02:18and very good racing.
01:02:21And speaking of that, I want to talk to you about the XBTV Workout of the Week.
01:02:25This week it is Sierra Leone, who we talked about earlier on the show, who worked four
01:02:29furlongs in 49.66 at Saratoga on Sunday.
01:02:33And it looks like he's working in that new cage bit that Chad Brown added for the Belmont
01:02:38Snakes.
01:02:39We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
01:02:48All the thrills.
01:03:18Fraction of the bills.
01:03:23Experience the power of the partnership.
01:03:29Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:03:36West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:03:40Visit westpointtb.com.
01:03:44And also the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by our friends at West Point Thoroughbreds,
01:03:48which had a weekend to remember.
01:03:50Again, stakes wins from Vava, who we talked about earlier as the fastest horse of the
01:03:54week, and Carson's Run.
01:03:56Remember him.
01:03:57Vava continued to make that case.
01:03:59I was telling you about as one of the leaders in the Philly Mayor's Sprint Division.
01:04:02She was one to two in the Chicago Stakes at Churchill.
01:04:06Next up for Vava on her dance card is the Grade One Ballerina Stakes at Saratoga, also
01:04:12at seven furlongs.
01:04:13Carson's Run, a Grade One winner as a two-year-old last fall, returned to his best form in the
01:04:18Tail of the Cat Stakes on Sunday at Monmouth Park for his trainer, Christophe Clement.
01:04:24West Point carries now eight wins at Churchill Downs into the final week of that spring-summer
01:04:29meeting, and West Point is now training its sights, of course, on Saratoga and Del Mar.
01:04:35To learn more, visit westpointtb.com.
01:04:39That's a wrap on this week's show.
01:04:41I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and T.D. Thornton.
01:04:44Zoe Cabin will be back with us next week.
01:04:46I also want to thank our Green Group Guests of the Week, Flobby and Pratt, and the people
01:04:50who worked so hard for us behind the scenes to put this show together, our producing team
01:04:53with Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:04:57Once again, that's it for this edition of the Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room
01:05:00podcast.
01:05:01Thanks for tuning us in.
01:05:03Bye-bye.