During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing last week, Sen. Josh Hawley (R-MO) spoke about the online sexual exploitation of children.
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00:00of the subcommittee during this Congress,
00:01and I'm equally delighted to have as the ranking member my
00:05colleague, Senator Dick Durbin, who is on his way
00:08over from lunch.
00:09His staff tells me I can blame Senator Schumer.
00:11I said, I blame Senator Schumer for so many things.
00:13But he will be joining us shortly.
00:17It's really, it's a delight to have Senator Durbin
00:19as the ranking member on this committee,
00:21and it's particularly a privilege to partner with him
00:24on this important topic that we're here to discuss today.
00:27Senator Durbin and I have worked together
00:28on a number of initiatives.
00:30I don't think any is more important than confronting
00:32the scourge of child sexual exploitation, or CSAM.
00:36You know, that's a anodyne-sounding abbreviation.
00:40But as I hope everybody in the room appreciates,
00:42and those who are listening online understand,
00:46that abbreviation stands in for a terrifying,
00:48horrifying reality.
00:50We're talking about, in a word, child pornography.
00:53We're talking about child sexual exploitation,
00:56child sexual abuse.
00:58The amount of this material online, available online,
01:02is truly astounding, and we're gonna talk about that
01:04over the course of today's hearing.
01:05But of course, these aren't just statistics.
01:08Every single instance of CSAM online
01:11represents a real child, a real person,
01:15who has been tragically, and oftentimes,
01:18life-alteringly abused.
01:20And it's the conviction of myself,
01:23and I know Senator Durbin, and I hope every member of,
01:26not just the subcommittee,
01:27but the entire Senate Judiciary Committee,
01:29that we have to do something about this.
01:31We've talked about it for years.
01:33The time to take definitive action is here,
01:36and that's why the legislative framework
01:38that we are discussing today,
01:40I think is so incredibly important.
01:42But let me just give you a sense of the scope
01:44of the problem that we're talking about.
01:45Worldwide, 302 million children have been victims
01:52of child sexual abuse material,
01:54and child sexual exploitation online.
01:56Let me say that again.
01:57Worldwide, 302 million children,
02:03300 million children globally,
02:05have been subjected to online solicitation.
02:09Solicitation, that is, for some sort of sexual abuse,
02:12or following some sort of sexual abuse.
02:15To give you another angle on the scope of this problem,
02:19when an online platform becomes aware
02:21of instances of child sexual exploitation
02:24under our law, they're required to report those instances
02:27to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children,
02:30NCMEC, their cyber tip line,
02:32and we're delighted to have the CEO of NCMEC with us today.
02:35But just consider this data.
02:38In 2014, the number of reported instances
02:42of online child sexual exploitation in 2014 was 1.1 million.
02:48Now, that's a staggering number,
02:49but consider where it is today.
02:51In 2023, the year for which we have
02:54the most recent full data, that number was 36.2 million.
02:591.1 million in 2014, 36.2 million reports
03:05of online child sexual exploitation in 2023,
03:09and the number of urgent reports,
03:12those are cases where the child
03:14is thought to be at present risk.
03:16You might say clear and present danger.
03:18That number has grown by 140% in just the last three years.
03:24If you think about the images themselves,
03:26the poster behind me gives you some sense of this.
03:29Back in 2004, there were 450,000 images reported online
03:35of child sexual abuse material.
03:37Again, that number in itself is huge.
03:39Nothing like what we're seeing today.
03:42The number today tops 104 million known reported images
03:48of child sexual abuse online.
03:51This is truly a crisis.
03:53It is an epidemic, and it's not a theory.
03:56It affects far too many children
03:57in the United States of America to say nothing of the,
04:00as we've seen, hundreds of millions of children worldwide.
04:04So the question is, what are we gonna do about it?
04:07And that's what we're here to talk about today.
04:08Senator Durbin and I, in the last Congress,
04:11introduced what I believe is truly landmark legislation,
04:14which I might add, passed the Senate Judiciary Committee
04:17in what is nothing short of a miracle, by a unanimous vote.
04:21This legislation would protect child victims
04:24and witnesses in courts with new rights,
04:27new safeguards, new procedures.
04:28It would expand the scope of restitution provisions
04:31in current law.
04:32It would enhance the cyber tip line.
04:34It would create a child online protection board
04:36to allow parents and victims to go and argue their case,
04:40to have material taken down, and to receive restitution.
04:43And for my money, maybe most importantly,
04:45it would allow victims, finally, to have their day in court.
04:49It would allow victims to get into court
04:51and to bring suit against online platforms
04:55that are hosting this material and making money on it.
04:59Which brings me to the culpability of Big Tech.
05:03You know, Big Tech has said for years,
05:05oh, we're doing all we can, but we know,
05:07because we've heard the testimony from folks
05:09who have sat right where our distinguished witnesses
05:11are sitting today, we've heard the testimony of parents
05:14who have gone to the Big Tech companies,
05:17have reported instances of child sexual abuse material
05:20online, including victims who reported
05:23their own abuse material.
05:25I was abused.
05:26These are my images online.
05:27Please take them down.
05:29The Big Tech companies often will fob them off
05:31on some complicated procedure that never bears any fruit,
05:34or just flat out refuse to do anything.
05:36And I'll never forget the testimony of one mother
05:38who sat right there at that table and said,
05:40when I told this tech company,
05:44it was Snapchat in that instance,
05:45when I told them about the sexual abuse material
05:48that was online, they just laughed at me and said,
05:50there's nothing that you can do, you can't sue us.
05:53Well, ladies and gentlemen, it's time to change that.
05:56It is time to allow victims to have their day in court.
06:00One of the most important foundational rights
06:03that we have as Americans is the right to get into court,
06:06to get in front of a jury, and to vindicate
06:09the personal rights given to us by our Constitution,
06:12by our system of laws, and dare I say,
06:16by nature and nature's God.
06:18And that right is currently denied
06:20to parents and victims in this country.
06:21You can't sue these platforms.
06:24They're protected by congressional legislation.
06:26It's time to change that.
06:27This bill would finally allow victims
06:30to have their day in court.
06:31And guess what?
06:32The Big Tech companies absolutely hate it.
06:35They despise it, which is how you know it's a good idea.
06:38In fact, it's how you know it's essential.
06:40Listen, I will never forget watching the FTC
06:44some years ago fine Facebook at the time.
06:46I think it was a billion dollars.
06:49Maybe it was even more than that.
06:50What happened to Facebook's stock price the next day?
06:53It went up.
06:54They didn't care.
06:55Did they change their behavior?
06:57No.
06:58Did they do anything different?
06:59No.
07:00They just plowed straight ahead.
07:02But do you know what these tech companies fear?
07:04They fear accountability before a jury of their peers.
07:07They fear a courtroom.
07:09They don't want to be accountable in court.
07:10They don't want victims.
07:12They don't want parents to have the right
07:15to sue them in an open court.
07:16They don't want to be held liable civilly, fairly.
07:20They don't want to be subject to due process.
07:22It is time to make them subject.
07:24It is time to impose civil liability.
07:26It's time to give victims this right.
07:28And that is what this bill would do
07:30among the other important procedural safeguards
07:32and reforms that I mentioned just a moment ago.
07:35I want to thank everybody who's here in attendance.
07:37We have so many folks here
07:39from child protection organizations,
07:41so many of you who work in this field,
07:43who are literally in the trenches every day
07:45protecting children.
07:46Thank you for your incredible work.
07:48And thank you to our incredible witnesses
07:50who have joined us today.
07:52It's truly an all-star panel.
07:54And now let me introduce the witnesses.
07:57When Senator Durbin gets here,
07:58when the witnesses are finished,
08:00we'll allow him to make a statement.
08:01But let me introduce our witnesses
08:04and then we'll have the opportunity to hear
08:07from each of them.
08:08We have Michelle Dilan,
08:09who is the President and Chief Executive Officer
08:12of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
08:15She previously served eight years
08:16as NCMEC's Chief Operating Officer.
08:18We're delighted to have you, Ms. Dilan.
08:20We've got John Tanago,
08:22who is the Executive Director
08:23of the International Justice Mission Center
08:25to End Online Sexual Exploitation of Children.
08:29The center protects children in the Philippines
08:31where nearly half a million children
08:33are sexually abused in order to produce
08:36this online CSAM material.
08:39This happens especially through live streaming,
08:40and I think Mr. Tanago will testify to that effect today.
08:43We have Gregory Schiller,
08:44who is the CEO of the Child Rescue Coalition.
08:47This is a nonprofit organization
08:49that rescues children from sexual abuse
08:51by building technology for law enforcement
08:54to identify and arrest and prosecute child predators.
08:58Thank you, Mr. Schiller, for being here.
08:59Taylor Saenz, who is a survivor advocate.
09:03We're so glad to have you, Taylor.
09:04Specifically, Taylor is a survivor
09:06of internet-facilitated online enticement,
09:09child sexual exploitation, and CSAM.
09:12Her case was one of the largest online enticement,
09:15sextortion cases prosecuted at the time
09:18with over 300 victims,
09:20300 victims of the convicted perpetrator.
09:23And we have John Pizarro,
09:24who is the CEO and co-founder of Raven,
09:27a firm that focuses on legislative and policy solutions
09:30for child trafficking and child exploitation.
09:32Previously, John spent 25 years
09:35in the New Jersey State Police,
09:36conducting, managing, and leading investigations
09:39in terrorism and organized crime,
09:41narcotics trafficking, and child exploitation.
09:43He spent his last six years
09:45as the Internet Crimes Against Children Commander.
09:48Now it's the custom of this committee and subcommittee
09:50to swear in our witnesses when they appear.
09:53So if I could ask each of you to rise
09:55and to raise your right hand, and then we'll get started.
10:00Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give
10:02is the truth, the whole truth,
10:03and nothing but the truth, so help you God?