Pamela tras 20 años con su pareja se enteró que él tenía un amante y la abandonó con 4 hijas y una pensión de $50 mil pesos.
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00:00Mila had been with her husband for 20 years.
00:02When they had three daughters and a fourth on the way,
00:05he gave her news that made her world collapse.
00:08I'm almost about to give birth to my fourth daughter,
00:12when he suddenly approaches to tell me that he has a lover.
00:16I said, get out of here, because I don't want to have my baby here in the house.
00:21And that's when it all started.
00:22And that's when the fights, the arguments started,
00:25that in the end I told him, what are you doing here?
00:27Take your things and go.
00:29It was a painful time.
00:31He left when his baby was seven months old.
00:33His eldest daughter was in college and the other two in school.
00:37Pamela had to face the rest alone and without resources.
00:41Because I also had the shame of coming, standing outside
00:44and saying, get out of the pocket.
00:46At that time there was no card or anything.
00:48I took out the money and said, look, they paid me, but I'm not going to give you any.
00:53After a few minutes, I imagine that a lot of pensions are established, legally, right?
00:58Yes, finally, at the age of two, he came to mediation through the municipality.
01:03He was going to cry that he didn't have money.
01:05He also started having children like crazy.
01:08We had four at 18 years old.
01:11He had three at five years old.
01:14It's easy to have more children if you're letting four vote.
01:19He said, okay, 50,000 pesos.
01:2150,000 pesos for four children.
01:23He deposited a whole month.
01:26Never again.
01:27Pamela claims that her ex even hit her,
01:30which made her want to take the legal dispute to the next step.
01:34How do I send him to prison?
01:36Where does he live?
01:37Nobody knows.
01:39How do I do it?
01:40Because I was with anorexia, I was with postpartum depression, I had them all.
01:47I didn't have them, because every time I went to ask, they would say,
01:51do you know where he lives?
01:52No.
01:53So we can't go looking for him.
01:55I said, so what?
01:57Do I have to become a detective?
01:59Do I have to follow him?
02:01Where do I look for him?
02:02She couldn't pay the pension, but she managed to divorce unilaterally.
02:06When the AFP retirees came, she was able to collect 5 million from the 15 who owed her.
02:12Because one thing is the issue of money,
02:14and another thing is the issue of his emotional responsibilities as a father.
02:18How was he with your daughters?
02:20No, none.
02:21Nothing? He misunderstood.
02:22He would come, take them for a walk here in La Manzana,
02:25and buy them a small drink and a packet of cookies or a yogurt.
02:32It was his monthly contribution.
02:34The 8-year-old girl had a little more cash, she missed him,
02:38she missed the process of having her father by her side in her growth.
02:44She started to show this when she was 15, 16, 17 years old.
02:50Then she started to suffer panic attacks.
02:53I think it came from all of this.
02:57It is impossible not to empathize with Pamela's case,
03:00which also represents just one example of so many women who live in the same situation.
03:05We have Pamela on the phone.
03:07Of course, she didn't want to show her face out of fear,
03:12probably out of reprisal.
03:13Pamela, I want to greet you and also thank you for being in contact with us
03:18and also to make what you live clear,
03:20because the truth is that it has been very difficult, I imagine,
03:23after what we saw in the report.
03:24How are you?
03:26Hello, good afternoon.
03:27Well, first of all, thank you for listening to my story
03:32and letting me know what I have lived in this time.
03:38Well, now I got excited seeing everything and listening to everything.
03:43It was a very difficult time to be able to provide for my children in this period,
03:51always thinking that the pension was going to accumulate
03:56and that at some point this was going to be paid for.
04:01Yes, now you have four daughters.
04:03Can you tell me how old your daughters are now?
04:08My daughters, well, the oldest is 38,
04:12the next one is 34,
04:15I have a 29-year-old and the girl who is 20, 21, sorry.
04:21You got her through absolutely alone.
04:24And also with a food pension that was defined at some point,
04:29I imagine, by a court of 50,000 pesos, Pamela?
04:33Yes, correct.
04:35It was for 50,000 pesos because he cried all the time,
04:39he didn't have money, he didn't work and he couldn't give anything.
04:44And just because they forced him, he said, okay, 50.
04:49Now, Pamela, beyond the economic aspect,
04:51I imagine that just as he never paid the food pension,
04:55he was worried about the girls, he was never a present father.
04:59No, never.
05:01And that affected your daughters,
05:02do you see him to this day, perhaps as a result of that?
05:08Well, the two oldest don't want to see him, not even in paintings.
05:12They don't want to know anything about him.
05:14The third, who was younger and didn't realize all the drama that happened,
05:21she remembers him.
05:24I know that at some point they have contact, but only that.
05:29I mean, no help, no concern, not even for her.
05:34And now there are four grandchildren.
05:37Of course, because they are also mothers,
05:40I imagine that also, in some way,
05:43the grandchildren begin to grow up and ask for their grandfather,
05:46but they don't want to see him.
05:47This is a very long process.
05:50If I ask you, what was the most complex moment you experienced?
05:55Because I imagine that at some point you had to fasten your seatbelt,
05:57your daughter's birthday came,
05:59you also faced, for example, Christmas, the New Year,
06:02where we know that we have to spend more money,
06:04but how do you respond to that?
06:05How did you experience it?
06:08It was the most difficult moment, I think it was the first three years.
06:13It was a moment when I felt too alone, tired,
06:22with four daughters, taking care of everything.
06:26I had the help of my father, who is the man of my life,
06:30but it was difficult, it was difficult,
06:34because in the first two years he wanted to go back home and continue with his hand.
06:40Of course, because I imagine that even your father, your family,
06:43were the ones who helped you.
06:44Where did you get the money from? Did you get into debt?
06:46How did you do it?
06:48The so-called bicycle.
06:50And then, when I couldn't pay that, I asked for it on the other side,
06:58apart from my job, as I was with, at first I was with,
07:04and with, oh, what's the name? I'm nervous.
07:10Yes, do not worry, Pamela.
07:12I was depressed, I was too skinny.
07:18I couldn't work well either, and then I started to make cakes to sell in the office.
07:27In some way, trying to make that extra money that was so important to feed your daughter.
07:35I imagine it was a permanent concern.
07:39Of course, I mentioned some important dates, but it was basically the day-to-day.
07:44It's very difficult.
07:45And when we found out that this situation continues,
07:48that despite the measures that have been adopted so that those parents, debtors of food pensions,
07:53do it, unfortunately the system so far is still very permissive.
07:59And there are some who, of course, are looking for some legal risks,
08:02and that can help us.
08:04For example, not to put houses in their name, or to lower the rent.
08:09Because in the end, there is where they make money thinking that the damage is done to their children.
08:15Exactly, or to work in black, right?
08:18Many men, unfortunately, work and the truth is that they do not declare taxes,
08:22they do not issue tickets, therefore, they become the victims, really,
08:26so as not to pay that food pension that both their children or daughters,
08:30in this case, in the case of Pamela that we are meeting, need for their subsistence.
08:35The truth is that Pamela, your story is totally incredible, you know?
08:41It is of courage and represents so many women in our country
08:45who go through exactly the same thing, who are left alone raising their children
08:49and keeping them economically as well.
08:51It is not only the concern of the day-to-day,
08:53but it is also to generate those economic resources to be able to sustain it.
08:58And what I imagine, Pam, that also gives me a lot of anger,
09:01is that this man, the father of your four daughters, later had three more children.
09:07Correct. He had three children in five years.
09:11And then, I also wonder what impotence he will give,
09:16that is, he could not pay, he could not pay more than 50 thousand pesos
09:20when a court finally forced him.
09:22How did you maintain those other three children?
09:25Did you ever know anything else about that relationship
09:28that he had as a father with those three children?
09:31No, no, never. He never paid attention to me, I suffered a lot.
09:38I found out years later that he had had three more children
09:42when I was getting divorced, unilaterally.
09:45There I just found out, and I said,
09:49it is easy to have three more children if you are leaving four out.
09:55And without worrying, without contributing anything, nothing.
09:59It was nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing.
10:01Now, Pamela?
10:02And in a single opportunity, I found out where he worked,
10:07I was able to request the discount on a spreadsheet,
10:11and he came to hit me,
10:14because he said that the employer had fired him
10:16because he did not want complicated people.
10:20He came to hit me here.
10:22You lived through a lot of humiliation.
10:25And beyond the financial aspect, I want to ask you, Pamela,
10:29with four daughters, you were pregnant with the last one
10:33when he told you to leave, or you asked him to leave
10:36because he was being unfaithful, right?
10:38And that is when this marriage ends.
10:40But with four little daughters, how did you address the issue of separation?
10:45Because if there was no father present,
10:47you ended up being a father and a mother, which is a tremendous burden.
11:12And your daughter realizes that, or you probably did it in silence.
11:17Yes.
11:18My oldest daughters supported me,
11:20and they told me, Mom, go out, look for your friends, look for your friends.
11:24I didn't have any friends either,
11:26because he was in charge of separating me from all my friends.
11:29How horrible.
11:30And look, because later I found out, I got married young, yes,
11:34but I found out that with the years he became a sexist man and a psychopath.
11:39So I couldn't have friends, I couldn't have anything.
11:41So my daughters were in charge of looking for my friends,
11:45When everything seemed wrong to you.
11:47Of course.
11:48So there comes a time when I say, I can't go on like this,
11:52because the day my new life begins,
11:55and I saw an old book, one of those fairy tales,
12:01and I opened this book, and all of its pages were blank.
12:05And I looked at this book and said, now my new life begins.
12:10Yes.
12:11And I took all the weight off.
12:13Yes.
12:14And I took all the weight off.
12:15How incredible, because you were also very brave.
12:17And I imagine that your daughters are also proud of you.
12:20But when we take the example of Pamela, Monica,
12:24it's true, all of this somehow affects the children.
12:28She said that her eight-year-old daughter had a panic attack,
12:31because the lack of the presence of the father,
12:33leaving aside whether he paid the pension or not,
12:36the lack of that presence or the paternal image
12:40also affects the formation of the children.
12:42Very much.
12:44It clearly influences, for example,
12:46how they will develop later to choose a new partner.
12:49There are many people who say,
12:51my vision of men is more damaged,
12:56men leave, men do not fulfill their commitments,
12:59depending on what they also lived in childhood.
13:02So they also start to feel more secure in another group.
13:05Many say, I don't want to have children.
13:07I saw my mother suffer for us, I saw everything it cost her.
13:10So I don't know if I want to suddenly form a family as such.
13:14So there are certain impacts.
13:16And this panic crisis is very common, for example, in separations,
13:20because panic crises are also associated with losing something important to one.
13:24So sometimes they can trigger years later,
13:27in the face of a situation that reminds us of a loss,
13:30we reconnect with that and start to see that scare,
13:33that scare of being able to get ahead.
13:36Now, I also add to Macarena, Priscila,
13:39I think Pamela, the story you tell us is tremendously important.
13:43And I also want to highlight something very key.
13:46You said I counted on my dad, your daughter's grandfather.
13:49I think it is important today to have a network,
13:52to be able to rely on each other, to understand that we are never alone.
13:55And that if you feel that you are alone,
13:57let's knock on doors, let's look for those help,
14:00let's look for the networks in schools, the others in power.
14:03But I think more than ever,
14:05especially in the face of these figures, which are scary,
14:08we need to tell others, I need support.
14:11And I also think that a child today cannot be raised alone,
14:14he has to be raised in a tribe,
14:16and from there the development will be much better.
14:18Yes, Pamela, I want to ask you a question.
14:20It's been a long time,
14:23and you probably already have the stage,
14:26watching it from a distance,
14:28you think with a colder mind.
14:30If in a minute, after everything you had to go through,
14:34if you go back in time,
14:36was it worth it to separate?
14:38Because there are many people, many marriages or couples,
14:41who do not separate because of their children.
14:44Was it worth it for you?
14:46If I look at it now, after 21 years, yes.
14:50It was worth it.
14:52It was worth separating.
14:55Look, I got my freedom,
14:58I started to live,
15:02because before I was the nanny of the house,
15:07I was the one who contributed money,
15:10and I had no life.
15:13I had no life,
15:15because with a sexist and celibate husband,
15:19you can't do anything,
15:21apart from raising and working for the house,
15:25because the house also needed money.
15:28Pamela, you already had three daughters,
15:30and one was on the way.
15:31I imagine that one does not separate from one day to another,
15:33and probably things were going wrong.
15:35Did you ever want to solve or improve your marriage with another child?
15:40No, no, no.
15:42No.
15:43We were fine.
15:44You were always fine?
15:45Yes, super fine.
15:47Not always at 20 years old,
15:49because there is always a crisis.
15:51But at the moment that I get pregnant,
15:58and I'm going to do the ultrasound to know if it was a man or a woman,
16:03I tell the doctor that I don't want to know,
16:06because I already had three girls.
16:08And he says, I want to know.
16:11When he was told that it was a girl,
16:14he came out with a long face.
16:16I said, it's a woman.
16:18And from there he changed his attitude.
16:21But I never thought
16:25that he was going to mess with another person.
16:28And 15 days before my baby was born,
16:31he comes to tell me that he has a lover.
16:35But I didn't realize it either.
16:37Of course.
16:38I was worried about my three daughters,
16:40about the house, about work,
16:43about the things that were needed for the birth of my baby,
16:49about tidying up the room, the clinic.
16:53Of course, because it changed your life completely.
16:56Of course.
16:57And we know the reality of our country,
16:59and before, the minute you separated, it was worse.
17:02But psychological support in this is also fundamental,
17:05both for you, for your daughters.
17:07Mónica, deep down, we also have to take care of that right now.
17:11It is very important to understand that this is not only something that children suffer,
17:14when there is a lack of pension, a separation,
17:16but also mothers.
17:18And you said, my daughters supported me.
17:20Many mothers hide so that their children don't see them cry,
17:23but it is also important to be transparent and say,
17:26yes, I'm sad, I'm sorry.
17:28Never speak ill of the other parent,
17:30or say, look, your dad doesn't pay my pension,
17:32or put them against each other,
17:34because life is going to take care of them,
17:36deep down, that they realize.
17:38But what is fundamental is that children can have that right
17:41to also be able to understand that in life,
17:43not everything is happy, cheerful, beautiful.
17:46There are difficult moments.
17:48And if in the family it is allowed to talk about the sorrows,
17:51talk about the anger, talk about the things that happen to us,
17:54deep down, that will help them to also ask for help
17:57and say, mom, today I'm not well,
17:59today I miss you, today I'm sad.
18:01Deep down, and that can generate a safer and more confident context.
18:06Clearly, deep down, it is important to ask for psychological help in these cases,
18:09because, indeed, Pamela, you suffered violence.
18:12The most visible violence is physical,
18:15but moving away from friends or family,
18:18not letting yourself work sometimes,
18:20or restricting yourself in your possibilities,
18:23that is violence.
18:25Clearly, being able to reject a child,
18:28the lack of pension, the lack of support.
18:30So, when a mother decides to end a relationship,
18:34even if it takes a lot of time to realize,
18:38because from the moment you think, for the first time,
18:40I'm going to break up, until I break up,
18:42of course, psychologically, it can take at least a year.
18:45From the moment the person starts to think about it.
18:48So, breaking up is giving your daughters a sign, a sign,
18:52to say, this is not tolerated.
18:54Infidelity is not tolerated, mistreatment is not tolerated,
18:57and we can reinvent ourselves in a new life.
18:59Pamela, you have given us several lessons, really.
19:03We want to thank you.
19:05First, thank and recognize your courage,
19:07not only for everything you had to go through,
19:09alone, taking care of your four daughters,
19:12but also your courage to tell your story,
19:15and also to serve as an example for so many women
19:18who go through the same thing.
19:20Here, we also try to guide them as best as possible,
19:23and of course, in your case, we take several lessons.
19:25I imagine that for you, they are life lessons,
19:28that you have also passed on to your daughters,
19:31and I hope that they can have a happy life,
19:34after all that has happened.
19:36Thank you very much, Pamela.
19:38Thank you very much for listening to me,
19:40and well, I hope this serves as a lesson for everyone,
19:44and to move forward.
19:48First there are the children.
19:50First there are the children,
19:52one can suffer for a while,
19:54but then one realizes that the important thing is the children.
19:59They have to be well, they have to move forward,
20:02and to live life, nothing more.
20:05Yes, you are absolutely right.
20:07The children are the most important thing.
20:09That is why we are doing this program today.
20:11Bye, Pamela.
20:12Let's stay in touch.