In this episode of Biscuits & Jam, Sid Evans sits down with The War and Treaty’s Michael and Tanya Trotter, the husband-and-wife duo reshaping country music. From their Southern roots and gospel influences to Michael’s military service and Tanya’s Hollywood past, they share the journey to their latest album “Plus One,” a collaboration with Miranda Lambert, and recording at FAME Studios in Muscle Shoals.
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00:00Michael and Tanya Trotter, The War and Treaty, welcome to Biscuits and Jam.
00:05Good morning.
00:06It is so great to see y'all and great to have you here.
00:09I'm a big fan.
00:10I've been following you guys for a while now, and I'm just amazed by what you're doing.
00:17The new album is just incredible.
00:21It's so great.
00:23And I'm excited to talk about that.
00:25It's great to have y'all here.
00:26Where am I reaching you guys right now?
00:28We are home.
00:29We are right outside of Nashville, so we're home, working from home today.
00:34And how long have you guys been in Nashville?
00:35Well, we moved here in 2017.
00:39Okay.
00:40So does it feel like home now?
00:45Yes.
00:46Yes.
00:47Definitely.
00:48Well, it's great to have you right up the road.
00:52And you have so much going on, but the big news is you've got this new album out called
00:58Plus One, and it's a real powerhouse record.
01:08I mean, it's kind of mind-blowing.
01:12There's so many songs on it, and there's so much energy and heart and soul kind of pouring
01:19out of every single song.
01:22I'm just curious, what felt different about making this record from your others?
01:29Different.
01:30I think we've been here for a while, and we've been touring and doing music our way for a
01:37very long time.
01:38And we still do it our way, but we kind of opened ourselves up to when people say things
01:46like, oh, we haven't heard you on the radio or things like that, we kind of crafted some
01:50songs that do fit the genre of music that's kind of been claiming us over the last year
01:57and a half or two years.
01:58So we wanted to stay true to who we are and just expound on our love for country music.
02:05We've always had the roots of country music in everything we've done.
02:08With our first record, we had Emmylou Harris on the record, and Sam Bush and Buddy Miller
02:14produced it.
02:15And so we've always had country influences in a lot of the things we've done.
02:18The last record we did, we had Yesterday's Bird on it, which has a very traditional country
02:25sound.
02:26So we just added more of a, I wouldn't say commercial sound to what we do, but we just
02:29expounded on what if you added soul music in the things that we grew up listening to,
02:36to country radio.
02:37What could that possibly sound like?
02:38I would agree with Tanya.
02:41I think that the other thing is lyrical content.
02:46I think that we had a little bit more conversations this time around within ourselves and with
02:56others.
02:57So opening up the Warren Treaty to co-writes like Miranda Lambert or John and Randall and
03:07Jesse Alexander or Kendall Marble or Jesse Frazier, opening up to other perspectives,
03:19just making sure that we're being truthful in a truth moment.
03:25Country music is all about three chords and the truth.
03:28Well, what people don't understand is three chords are three chords.
03:33Truth is truth.
03:35What three chords are the Warren Treaty playing and what truth are we telling?
03:39So we have a lot of songs on there that deal with our truth and the truth about matters.
03:45So I think that's the difference maker.
03:46Well, you talk about country music and y'all are very much a part of the country music
03:56world right now, but it's also so unique.
03:59Your sound is very unique.
04:02It's not like anything else out there.
04:05There's all this gospel and there's the organ in there coming through in a lot of songs
04:11and there's the blues and there's soul and there's a mix of so many different sounds.
04:21It seems to me like you guys are doing something that really defies genre.
04:26The intentionality is there.
04:29I was watching an old interview of Johnny Cash on the Johnny Carson Show and that interview
04:38was just going everywhere.
04:39It started off how Johnny Cash bought Johnny Carson's old television, not television, old
04:47house, and then for less than $50,000 and now it's worth $200,000 in their day.
04:57And then Johnny Carson took an interesting turn and asked Johnny Cash about the music,
05:06country, folk, blues, and then he said, and how all of it started gospel.
05:16It was birthed out of a gospel influence.
05:18If you go and listen to the late, great Bill Monroe, he speaks about how bluegrass developed
05:26and people like to say, well, he took the blues and the jazz elements and the Appalachia,
05:32but no, it began from a young man going and getting lessons from a young Baptist parishioner.
05:43So a lot of the Baptist gospel shout elements are in bluegrass and vice versa.
05:52People have been putting these lines in music to separate them, to get better sales, but
05:59music is music and what The War and Truth is here to do is we're just here to blur lines
06:03and we're here to tell the truth.
06:05This is our truth.
06:06Our truth sometimes sounds like R&B, sounds like soul, sounds like country, sounds like
06:13jazz, blues, rock and roll, rap.
06:16It sounds like it all, but at the very core of it is the gospel truth coming out of our
06:23souls, out of our belly, out of the depths of our feet and coming on out for salvation
06:29purposes.
06:30Absolutely.
06:31I hear that coming through in everything y'all do and it just sounds like nobody else that
06:37I can think of.
06:38You know, there was something really cool about this album, if I'm not mistaken, you
06:42recorded it in Alabama at Fame Studios in Mushels Shoals, which is, you know, this is
06:49a legendary place where, I mean, Aretha recorded songs there, Wilson Pickett, you know, more
06:57recently, I think Jason Isbell recorded there.
07:02Talk to me about that place and what it meant to y'all to record this at Fame.
07:08I think, you know, there's something about nostalgia, you know, there's something about
07:13going back to where things were created and the energy that was in that room, you know?
07:23And so when we decided to record the record, and of course we were doing a record that
07:27was leaning more into the country side, I thought, we thought it would be a great idea
07:32to go there because so many of our heroes have, Wilson Pickett, you know, have produced
07:36some incredible records there.
07:39And then, you know, the family at Fame, they're like our family, you know, they welcomed us
07:43with open arms.
07:45We loved Engineer West working there, Rick, you know, we just had a really great time
07:51every time we've gone there.
07:52And prior to us recording there, they were doing, I guess it was the anniversary for
07:58Fame. And we went and Michael had an opportunity to perform, to play on the piano that
08:05Aretha Franklin played on, which isn't always in the studio.
08:08So, I mean, go figure, you know, you get to play on the same piano as the queen.
08:14So we did that and we recorded two songs from that, from some of the songs she's
08:20recorded for that particular anniversary.
08:23And to go back there with our own album and to be able to record our records and feel
08:28the spirit in the room.
08:29There were days I would go in the booth and just not know what was going to happen.
08:33You know, we recorded three songs, sorry about that.
08:36And I would go in to the booth and not know what's going to happen.
08:40And then I would just have to trust the energy that was in that room.
08:44And you can feel it.
08:46Yeah, you start suspending your own thoughts and how you think the record should come
08:50out and the creativity takes over.
08:53And I believe, you know, some people don't believe in that kind of thing.
08:56But I believe that the spirit in that room just takes over, you know, and the song
09:01becomes what it's supposed to become, regardless of how you've rehearsed it, you
09:05know?
09:05We recorded Do Right Woman.
09:11We recorded a Walk of Mal in My Shoes, and then we recorded Land of a Thousand
09:18Dances.
09:19And Do Right Woman, was that recorded there originally?
09:22Didn't Aretha record that there originally?
09:24Yeah, all those songs, all three, were done there originally.
09:28And that's the piano that Tonya is referencing.
09:31And it was quite intimidating to be sitting there in front of Spooner playing and David
09:36Hood and all those guys.
09:37Oh, that's great.
09:39That's great.
09:40Well, y'all, I want to come back to the album in a second, but I want to hear just a
09:44little bit about where you grew up.
09:47And Tonya, I'll start with you.
09:49I think you grew up around D.C., is that right?
09:53Yes, I did.
09:54I grew up in Washington, D.C., and then moved to Prince George's County my
10:01elementary years.
10:02And my dad was from New Bern, North Carolina, so I spent my summers there.
10:08And my mother is from Panama, and they actually met while my dad was in the
10:14service over in the Panama Canal.
10:17So D.C. was a plethora of different sounds and music.
10:25I was involved in the classical music community as well as the gospel community and
10:31in the R&B community.
10:32I was just telling someone earlier that a lot of the people that I grew up with,
10:37surprisingly, all of them became like really big R&B singers, but they were my
10:41friends that would come over to my house.
10:44Ginuwine, Tank, Johnny Gill, Stacey Ladd, so they were all older than me.
10:50So I had these people to look up to in the music industry.
10:54They were friends of my brother.
10:56And then I had my church, you know, Jenovia Jeter and Glenn Jones.
11:01Julie's Cheeks was a famous singer in the Washington, D.C.
11:05area. So I grew up with a lot of gospel influences just in my church.
11:09I mean, alone, we had our own version of Aretha Franklin right in my church.
11:14I mean, tell me about that, Tanya.
11:16What did that what did that kind of feel like?
11:18I mean, you go in there on a Sunday or Wednesday, you know, or whatever day it was.
11:24And what was what did it look and feel like in the church?
11:27What were you hearing?
11:29I can remember when I was eight years old and I'm sorry, I had to be I had to be
11:37four because my brother was eight and he was a soul, the big soul at the church.
11:41He was eight years old, just tearing up the church.
11:43Oh, he can sing, too.
11:45Yeah. And I remember watching him make everybody just fall out and cry with his
11:49voice. I mean, the people that he was singing a song called Be Grateful.
11:52And I went home, Walter Harkness.
11:55I went home and I told my mom I had to be four or five and I was like, I want to do
12:00that. Whatever he did to make people feel like that.
12:03I want to do that.
12:04And that set me on a path because it was electrifying.
12:09I mean, to hear not just my brother, but every soloist that got up in my church to
12:14sing, they were like they belong on the radio, you know, but they were doing this
12:20for God, you know, and it was they performed.
12:23And I don't mean to say perform, but they gave it their all.
12:27I mean, we had Joe Lewis in our church who was our James Brown.
12:31You know, he would sing until he sweat his jacket off and then he halfway rip off his
12:37shirt in the middle of a song.
12:39I'm like, this is like better than watching the Apollo.
12:43It was fantastic.
12:44It was it was a lesson that I could never get going into a school or reading a book.
12:50It was front row seat to the people who would never, quote unquote, make it, but they
12:58were giving it a thousand percent.
13:00And I think that was one of the reasons why I know that was one of the reasons why I
13:04wanted to do music. And you could tell people were feeling it in the room.
13:08Yeah. Oh, my goodness.
13:09It was not just feeling it was a healing to, you know, you watch people come in one
13:14way and then you saw you saw them at the end of the service leave out a different way.
13:19So someone would come in looking sad.
13:21And as a child, you know, you're paying attention to these things.
13:24And then you would see the same deaconess or church member walk out speaking to
13:29everyone and so full of joy, you know.
13:31So I saw very early on that I wanted to make people feel like that, whatever changed
13:38them from being sad to happy.
13:40That's how I translated as a child.
13:42I was like, I want to do that.
13:44That's it. And Michael, what about you?
13:48Did you grow up going to the church?
13:51You've got family from you got family from Alabama, but also Michigan, right?
13:57Well, my journey is through the church as well.
14:03And my journey begins in Cleveland, Ohio, and my church is not a normal situation.
14:09So Tanya grew up in a Black Baptist church.
14:12I grew up in the Black Seventh-day Adventist church.
14:17So while she was shouting and tearing up the rugs on Sunday, I was in there doing
14:24vespers and singing harmonies on Saturday, which is our Sabbath.
14:29My heroes walk right out of the bedroom into my living room.
14:34My mother and all of her sisters and my grandmother, my mom's mom, were singers in
14:42our church. In fact, my mom had a singing group called the Orr Sisters, which is
14:49her siblings. She had four sisters.
14:54One of them is no longer with us, God rest Aunt Rhonda.
14:58My granny was the piano player.
15:02And God rest Granny Juanita Orr.
15:05And then on my father's side is my Uncle Zelbert, who I attribute most of my musical
15:17knowledge to. And my uncle was a singer and a keyboard organist for the same church.
15:25Our church was filled with prominent singers from Pastor Wendley Phipps all the way to
15:37the prominent acapella group that we know as Take Six.
15:43All those guys are Seventh-day Adventists.
15:45The TV show Amen with Sherman Hemsley and Clifton Davis came out of our church, an
15:52Adventist church. And so they're very strict on harmonies and hymns and learning the
16:02hymns and learning the stories about the hymns and why they were so important.
16:09And I was very interested in choir and very interested in duets and that kind of thing.
16:20And so that's how I was.
16:22You know, I was singing in church.
16:24And around 2001, all the singing stopped because my girlfriend and I at the time had a
16:35little baby girl. And now it's time to get real about it.
16:40And so I joined the military to escape childhood dreams and get into some reality.
16:46And somehow music found me there as well.
16:52What a journey.
16:53And both of y'all have just been surrounded by music and musicians in your church and
17:03in your family. And it's really remarkable.
17:10Michael, was there a hymn that stuck with you or that stood out or that you really kind
17:18of latched on to?
17:19Absolutely. In fact, all of the hymns, I can't even think of the hymns without wanting to
17:29shed tears. It meant so much to me, to my spirituality, my journey in life.
17:34And even when I couldn't find a song, I always could find a hymn.
17:40But one of the most important hymns to me is a hymn entitled, There is a Fountain, that
17:50my mom sings so beautifully.
17:53There is a fountain filled with blood, drawn from Emmanuel's veins, and sinners plunge
18:02beneath that flood, lose all their guilty stains.
18:08It's so country, it's so Western, it's so cultured.
18:14But the true evidence of hope is inside of that hymn.
18:23So that hymn, I find myself humming it very often.
18:27And also one that's more contemporary in music is also the hymn, What a Friend We Have in
18:36Jesus.
18:38Well, y'all may have a gospel album in your future.
18:43Absolutely.
18:44That would be great, yeah.
18:45Absolutely. I think it's important to, I mean, especially if you're an American artist.
18:51I believe it's your duty to talk about your faith journey, you know, and forgive me for
19:02being a little bit one-sided, but I think that the American journey through faith and
19:10spirituality is a very unique one in contrast to other countries.
19:14I believe that because this country's borders are so open and so open to receiving all
19:21kinds of travelers, to be able to, you know, speak on their religious experience from a
19:28dictatorship, it's not necessarily a choice in so many countries.
19:35It's like you must believe this.
19:39But here, most people find faith in very difficult times.
19:48Most people find faith in the bottom of the pit, the bottom of the barrel.
19:54They find spirituality is like the aftermath to faith.
19:59And I think that's unique.
20:01I think it's very unique that we have all these different churches.
20:04Like, you know, Ty and I look alike in skin and culture.
20:08But when you start to dissect us, again, there's two different days here.
20:12You talk about Sabbath, Saturday, you talk about Sunday and, you know, and the different
20:18styles. In my church, we weren't allowed to have drums.
20:22You know, this is a Black Seminary Adventist church, and they don't have drums in that
20:27church. So you discovered drums and you were like, wow, this is so insane.
20:34I mean, but again, faith and spirituality finds its way in everything we as Americans
20:45do. It finds our way in our currency.
20:48It finds its way in our politics.
20:50It finds our way in cinema.
20:53It finds its way in so many aspects of our lives.
20:58Michael, you mentioned the military being a big part of your journey and, you know,
21:05you're an Army veteran.
21:08You went into the military in the early 2000s, is that right?
21:11Yep, 2003.
21:13A lot of your colleagues now and a lot of the country stars who are out there, a lot
21:20of the people in the music world were playing in bars and trying to make it in
21:26Nashville or elsewhere.
21:29And you were serving your country in Iraq, I think, and Germany.
21:34Yep. Just tell me about that and the role that that played in your musical journey.
21:42It created me and created my why, you know, I mean, it provided me an exit from the
21:55pain and the realities of war and an entrance into purpose.
22:01You know, I started writing songs in the war about the fallen and that journey led me
22:10to a lot of my focal point this year, which is my love for my wife and what she was able
22:18to do as a caretaker.
22:20I think that we all know what war does.
22:23We fantasize about war and we know, even when we think we don't, we know.
22:29But what we don't know is about the post.
22:32So I have PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
22:36And the hero in this is Tanya.
22:42Roll up her sleeves.
22:43I mean, if you look at my wife, you see her beautiful earrings, her face, her makeup,
22:47and see her on stage, her hair and all the things.
22:49But in order for Tanya to hear my military story, she had to unadorn herself and just
23:00get face to face in the trenches, in the dirt, in the dust, in the foxhole with me
23:07and hear my journey and then say, I can love that.
23:14And that is what I'm most excited about, the fact that I'm able to sit here and talk
23:20about the fallen and talk about how I wrote those songs and how I wasn't trying to write
23:27those songs for a musical career, but I was trying to write those songs to bring some
23:32sort of serenity and peace and resolution to my battle buddies and how it's sustaining
23:40me even now.
23:41Tanya, you've been through some tough times yourself.
23:46It hasn't all been roses for you.
23:49And I'm wondering when you are writing music, performing music, especially on this
23:56record, do you return to some of those times?
24:00I think it's important to.
24:02I think one of the things I've had to learn about pain and trauma and all the things
24:11that we believe that we're healed from, we're always healing.
24:16Every day is an opportunity to heal.
24:19I think there's a subconscious and you kind of put it in the back of your mind.
24:24But there are things that may trigger whatever pain or trauma you've gone through.
24:28And I just happen to be gifted by God to have the gift of music, which is my vehicle for
24:36healing. It's the vehicle that God gave me to at any moment I could tap into it.
24:43If I can look in the audience and look into someone's eyes, I'm reminded of what I felt
24:49like, you know, at that moment, going to a show or sitting in the audience and listening
24:55to someone give me a piece of their of themselves so that I could heal.
25:00I remember and I know what that looks like.
25:02You know, I know what it feels like.
25:04So it's easy to to tap in.
25:07And when you're with that, you know, like Michael, who is so open and vulnerable about
25:17his journey and his pain and his trauma, that's not easy.
25:22You know, I think people don't give themselves enough credit.
25:25And I always say this to Michael, that to be able to stand up there and tell someone
25:30your story and to release the level of pain and trauma that you've gone through, because
25:35a lot of veterans don't do that, you're saving so many lives.
25:39And it's such it can be such a heavy burden if you look at it that way.
25:44But then you just have to look at it as your vehicle, you know, your vehicle for like we
25:49have a song, Five More Minutes.
25:50There are many people that come up to us and they say things like, I was going to take
25:54my life before I came to this show.
25:56I mean, what power you have as an artist to be able to tap into that little moment that
26:04you can remember or reflect on where you almost gave up, you know, where you almost
26:09committed suicide or where you almost let it go.
26:11And you have that three minute song that can save somebody's life.
26:16That is one of the most powerful gifts.
26:18You're a doctor, you know, you're in surgery when you're on stage.
26:22You have the, you know, your voice is that instrument that could save a life.
26:27And I think it's important for every artist, whatever they go through, to tap into
26:31that, to remember, to remember, you know, what it felt like to go through that and
26:41I never want to forget any pain that I've experienced.
26:44I never want to, I don't want to live in it and I don't want the pain to dictate my
26:49decisions, but I never want to forget it.
26:52I always want to have the ability to tap in and be reminded of what it felt like.
26:56Well, so much of your music now is about joy and hope and exuberance and love and
27:06feeling good.
27:08Um, and I, you know, I saw, um, I think it was a few months ago, might've been
27:13close to a year ago now, but you, uh, were on The View, um, and you were doing the
27:21song, uh, Joyful Joyful, um, from Sister Act Two, which was a big moment in your
27:28career.
27:29I mean, that had to be a major launchpad for you.
27:33Um, and to come back and revisit that, uh, that song with that group of people, with
27:40all the cast, uh, and with, with Whoopi Goldberg, um, talk to me about that and
27:47what, what that was like for you to kind of look back at that movie from, you know,
27:52from 30, 31 years ago.
27:54Ah, mere fact you say 31 years, I must've been singing at one years old when I did
27:59the movie, right?
28:00It was mind blowing.
28:02I mean, I didn't realize when I walked into that building and all of my, I
28:08called my classmates, we still have a, we have a thread now.
28:11We're all on the text messaging each other all the time, baby pictures, and some of
28:15them are grandparents and all that stuff.
28:17I couldn't believe how it just took me right back to when I was at 16, 17 year
28:22old kid, it felt like we were auditioning or we were on set all over again and we
28:28were all crying, we were all excited.
28:31Um, and then to see Whoopi, you know, just as excited as we were and to remember all
28:39those memories, uh, that, that I was able to, to, they just flooded, you know, as
28:44soon as I saw her face and she was crying and we were crying and it's just really so
28:49hard to put into words how that made me feel and how just being around my classmates
28:54made me feel, but I was reminded of the beauty of Whoopi Goldberg, the joy that
29:02she gave all of us when we were on that set and the joy that she gave us when we
29:06did the view, you know, there was no difference.
29:08She was very vulnerable and she was very open and everyone had the same story about
29:13her, you know, we had never sat down to talk about the things Whoopi did behind,
29:18you know, behind closed doors or behind the scenes.
29:21But when we did, we were like, oh my gosh, she did that to you too.
29:24Oh my goodness.
29:25She was that great to you too.
29:27You know, we were all just laughing about it.
29:28We were like, so she was working on all of us doing the same thing at the same
29:33time and none of us knew it.
29:35She was always building us up, you know, and, uh, I get teary eyed to think about
29:40it now of how special, uh, that moment is and was and will always be in my life.
29:47I really do.
29:47Well, it's a beautiful scene and, and, uh, to see you, you know, um, just, you
29:54must've been, well, we won't talk about how old you were, but, but pretty young.
29:58And, and with, you know, with Lauren Hill right there, I mean, it's just, it's a
30:03great scene and that had to be a great moment.
30:06Yeah, it was fantastic.
30:07And I, I actually, the night before we did the view as time would have it, I
30:12The night before we did the view as time would have it, I ended up
30:16seeing, uh, Lauren Hill in LA.
30:20She was winning an award for miseducation of, uh, Lauren Hill.
30:25I guess she was getting inducted, um, to a, one of the grant for
30:29songwriter or something like that.
30:30And I saw her, we hadn't seen each other since the, since her tour.
30:34Cause I toured with her when she did miseducation.
30:36So how fitting was it that the night before we did the view, we get, I get a
30:41chance to see, to see her, you know, so it was like a full circle moment, even
30:45though she wasn't on the show, it was a completely full circle moment.
30:48That's great.
30:50All right.
30:50I want to ask y'all a few quick ones, and then I want to talk about a
30:54couple songs, um, from the album.
30:57But, uh, let me, this is kind of a lightning round.
31:00Okay.
31:01Who's an artist that you'd like to collaborate with and why?
31:08Okay.
31:08You go first.
31:09It's a lightning round.
31:11Um, okay.
31:12So you go first.
31:14Okay.
31:15An artist I would love to collaborate with Michael Bublé.
31:17Oh, you took mine.
31:19Uh, he took my Michael Bublé.
31:23Okay.
31:23That's a good one.
31:24I'm going to say, I'm going to say the same artist.
31:27Yeah.
31:27Okay.
31:28I'm going to say Adele.
31:29Oh, okay.
31:32All right.
31:32This is an important one.
31:33Who's the best cook in the Trotter house and what's their best dish?
31:37Michael Trotter Jr.
31:39He is, I could just strangle him because I was, can't you tell?
31:45He just started out this fancy cookie.
31:47Not only does he cook, I have to send you a video.
31:49He plates everything.
31:50I mean, who does that?
31:52And there's no one special meal.
31:54He, the kids don't even want to eat my food anymore.
31:57I made something recently that is really interesting.
32:01I made a, I took two different cuisines.
32:04I took like an Asian beef and, uh, mixed it with a Mexican taco.
32:10Oh, okay.
32:13So good.
32:14It was awesome.
32:15My stomach's growling right now.
32:16It was an Asian taco.
32:17I mean, it was really cool.
32:18It was really good.
32:19And we were, funny story, brown, fast brown.
32:21We were married seven years.
32:22Lightning round.
32:23I didn't know he could cook.
32:25And then one day he shows up and makes this meal and I'm like, that's enough.
32:28Come on.
32:29He does that.
32:30Lightning.
32:32We're ready.
32:33Next.
32:34Okay.
32:34What's the hardest part about being married to your bandmate?
32:38Time.
32:39Time.
32:40Being on time.
32:41No, it's time.
32:42It's time.
32:43It's being on time.
32:48All right.
32:48Last one.
32:49What's a Southern food that you love?
32:51Macaroni and cheese.
32:53Mac and cheese.
32:55Mac and cheese.
32:56Yeah.
32:56All right.
32:57I love it.
32:57Okay.
32:58Let's talk about the album guys.
33:00So there's a song on the album that you guys just released and it's called
33:07Carried Away and it starts off really slow, kind of quiet and it completely
33:18catches you by surprise because it builds and builds and I mean, it's
33:23kind of a powerhouse of a song.
33:27And by the end of it, it's a long song.
33:32By the end of it, you're like, wow, I've been on this journey with this song.
33:36I mean, it is really, it takes you places.
33:39Um, it's so good.
33:41Talk to me about how that one came together.
33:43Well, I'm glad you said you hit the, you hit it, you hit it right on point.
33:50Um, intentionality.
33:52Like I said, this album is all about being intentional with
33:56your three chords and the truth.
33:58And, um, I love, uh, old time country.
34:04Tanya loves old time.
34:05We love the artists like Patsy Cline, Hank Williams, just, just taking, you
34:12know, some of that Conway Tweedy, George Jones, Tammy Wynette.
34:15I mean, like the good stuff, like, um, just the other day, Tanya and I were
34:19listening to Kenny Rogers and Dottie West, because we're going to cover at
34:24the symphony, um, their song till I can make it on my own.
34:27Well, George, well, Tammy's song, but they, they had a
34:30version that was so beautiful.
34:33Um, but what we want to do is we wanted to take a song and show our journey.
34:40You know, just be careful what you're asking me for this country
34:44waltz to two, three, two, three.
34:47And then it stops and intentionally interjects the now with the sound of R&B.
34:57So I might get, you know, and so you can, you can interrupt your regularly
35:06scheduled program to enjoy something else, but also for us to show our
35:11audience how close it really is.
35:16Like it, the lines of, as Tanya said, the lines of demarcation are not that
35:23telling because it makes you feel like, wow, I have been on a journey,
35:31but it's not an offensive one.
35:33It's an inclusive journey.
35:35It's how we all walk together in life.
35:38We all can be marching in the same direction, but if you pay attention,
35:43there's some originality there with all of us that fits the
35:48overall grand scheme of things.
35:51So that is what we want to do.
35:52We want to intentionally say, listen, what if, uh, Conway Twitty and D'Angelo
36:01did a song together, like this is what it would sound like or George Jones rather.
36:08And, um, and Conway, or what if George Jones and Al Green.
36:15Yeah.
36:18Yeah.
36:18That sounds right.
36:19That sounds right.
36:21Well, what, what a song.
36:23Um, and it, it also feels like it's, you know, it's your story.
36:27Yeah.
36:29You know, it's your story getting carried away.
36:33Oh yeah.
36:34Yeah.
36:34She, she, she had to learn.
36:37Don't talk trash to the fat man.
36:40It's cause I'm fat doesn't mean that I don't know how to move.
36:43He's a lot of misbeats.
36:46Uh, so let me ask y'all about another one.
36:48Um, you mentioned, uh, Miranda Lambert, uh, earlier and you recorded
36:54a song with her called Love Like Whiskey.
36:56This is the first song on the album.
36:59And a very different song and it, and it's, it's fun and it's upbeat
37:05and it makes you feel good.
37:07And, um, it's, uh, it, it sounds like a great collaboration.
37:13Like y'all really found a connection there.
37:16Um, talk to me about that one and what it was like working with Miranda.
37:20Um, well, Miranda is incredible.
37:22I mean, she's, uh, most nominated, you know, country artists.
37:27Um, she's, she's a woman.
37:28She's a complete, I can say it badass.
37:32She's incredible.
37:33And to be in the studio with her was, was phenomenal because, you know, you
37:37see Miranda and she's dressed up and she plays a guitar and she gives an
37:41incredible show, but she's an incredible vocal arranger in the studio and writer.
37:48And we drank and drank and drank.
37:50I was like, if we drink anymore, I don't know if I'm gonna get through this song.
37:54She's a great drinker.
37:54She's a great drinker too.
37:56She's as good of a drinker and she is a songwriter and artist.
38:00And I mean, we learned so much, you know, and, and you don't feel like you're in a
38:05room with a giant when you're writing with her, you don't feel like that.
38:09She doesn't make you feel that way.
38:11She has a way of bringing everything into a space.
38:15You still know you're in the room with Miranda, but you know that it's special
38:19and everything she's saying and she's doing is intentional, uh, every lyric
38:24that we're writing and we're collaborating on, we're thinking about it.
38:27Adam's another side of Michael and I think people, if they don't come to our
38:32show, they don't really hear a song on our album where they feel the fun of who
38:36we are, you know, and they get to see the other side of when we do have art and
38:41what happens and how good Michael can be.
38:44He's the, he, he gives the best.
38:46Please let me back in that bed.
38:49The best apologies.
38:50No one gives the best apologies better than Michael.
38:55He's the king of, of makeup, the makeup king.
38:58I like to call him.
38:59Okay.
38:59I, I gotta, I gotta address this.
39:02I'm glad you said this actually, because I was reading the liner notes and there's
39:08a line in the liner notes that says there've been times when we had to buy a
39:12more comfortable couch because we knew one of us was going to have to sleep on
39:17that couch at least once a week.
39:20One of us, meaning one of my sides.
39:22Okay.
39:23I can't imagine y'all being in a fight, but yeah, I was just wondering who's
39:26the one sleeping on the couch.
39:28Oh, I think I've slept on a couch at least once.
39:32Yeah.
39:32Because I wouldn't get out of bed.
39:36So I got out of bed.
39:37I'll, I'll just get out of bed.
39:38We argue very passionately, but we argue, uh, emotionally, emotionally,
39:45with emotional intelligence.
39:46Yeah.
39:46That's something we've been practicing in our marriage.
39:48Like having emotional intelligence, keeping in the front, in the
39:52forefront, the person you married, like, you know, I mean, you know, harm.
39:57Yeah.
39:57So I said something that offended you.
40:03Could it be that you misinterpreted, misheard?
40:08Could it be that it might be something you need clarity on?
40:11So pause, take a breather, deal with your own emotions.
40:14Pause, take a breather, deal with your own offense and then say, you said this,
40:21but before I get offended, explain, elaborate on what you mean by that.
40:29So now that gives me a chance to go, Oh, I I'm on thin ice here.
40:36Let me consider how I'm presenting my situation to my wife.
40:41And since we've been doing that, I've been on the couch a lot less.
40:48That's good.
40:48That's that's progress.
40:51Well, I think your new album is going to do a lot of good for a lot of marriages out
40:56there.
40:56So for whatever's that that's worth.
40:59So I just have one more question for y'all and, um, you know, you've been
41:05living in Nashville for about seven years.
41:09And I don't know if y'all think of yourselves as Southerners, um, or not at this
41:15point, you've, you've, you know, you grew up in Cleveland, spent a lot of time in
41:19Cleveland, Michael.
41:20Um, DC can sometimes feel Southern, sometimes not Tanya, but, um, I'm wondering
41:28what does it mean to you to be Southern?
41:31Yes.
41:32It's very interesting because I don't think it matters so much where you grow up.
41:37Versus who you grew up with.
41:40My family's from the South.
41:42So, uh, I mean, I joke about this a lot, but, um, my grandparents in the city had
41:54chickens and goats and it was the weirdest thing rooster to I'm like, you're not in
42:03the country anymore.
42:04You know, but I think what we're talking about, uh, when you say Southern for me, I
42:08think of Southern values, I think of Southern comfort.
42:14That is something that I will never ever take for granted.
42:18Um, what makes me Southern is I, I smile at everybody.
42:28I speak to everyone, whether they like it or not.
42:31When you come in my home, no matter what the degrees is, I want you to feel warm and
42:37welcome.
42:38Um, when you eat, I want you to be ready to go to sleep cause I want to give you that
42:44comfort food.
42:45Um, I just want you to know that I appreciate you being here.
42:52That's Southern to me.
42:55Um, it's not fast paced, it's family paced, um, it's not busy, it's intentional, you
43:05know, um, it's not immaculate and grandiose, it's inviting, you know, it's
43:23you know, that's Southern to me.
43:25What a beautiful way to put it.
43:27Tanya, Tanya, what about you?
43:30I would say it's comfort and it's love.
43:33Um, my dad is from New Bern, North Carolina.
43:37All my family still live there.
43:40And when I was younger, my grandparents, which they still have, they're no longer
43:44with us, but they have farm.
43:46And so every year we would go in the summertime down to the farm, to
43:50grandma and grandpa's house.
43:52And it had to be at least 27, 28 of my cousins and the whole community
43:57was just my cousins, you know?
43:58And so we would go down there and my grandfather had, they had chickens and
44:03cows and every hog pen, as soon as you walked out of their house, you know, I
44:08had a pet pig, um, fresh biscuits in the morning, bacon from the cows, and
44:14pigs and beef and all this other stuff.
44:16But one thing I remember about my grandmother, my grandmother loved to
44:19bake and my cousins tell this story as well.
44:23We would have to go outside if we wanted an apple pie or we wanted a blueberry pie.
44:27And she would say, okay, that's fine.
44:29Go pick some apples and bring them in here and I'll make you a pie.
44:32Oh, go get me some blueberries.
44:33I'll make you some pie and all around the property, all around the plantation,
44:37because that's what they call it.
44:38The plant, the plant plantation.
44:41You didn't have to go to the grocery store because there was a fruit of your
44:44choice, a fruit tree all around.
44:48There was cabbage and there was collard greens.
44:51She raised everything, you know, corn and rice and everything.
44:55And one thing I remember every time my parents would drop me off coming from DC,
44:59it was this feeling of comfort and love.
45:02And all of my family members, aunties and uncles had doubled up and
45:07all of my family members, aunties and uncles had double wides on this land.
45:13And you could go in and out of their house, except one, my aunt Rachel,
45:16you couldn't go in her house.
45:17She didn't like to have a bunch of kids in her house, but you can go in and out
45:23barefoot, running up and down, you know, the farmland.
45:27And it was a sense of love that I always felt.
45:30I always felt like when I went to grandma and grandpa's house, whatever was
45:33happening in the city, I could let my hair down and I could just be a wild
45:40little kid getting dirty all day.
45:43And just the thought of thinking about my grandparents makes me cry.
45:45You know, it makes me just the love that they gave us all.
45:50And when you sit down and you talk to your cousins and they all have the same,
45:54same stories about how they made you feel.
45:58And so to echo what Michael said, you know, it's about how, what being a
46:02Southerner makes you feel.
46:04And it is a sense of comfort and a sense of love that, um, I believe that's what
46:09makes, makes me Southern is that.
46:12Well, Michael and Tanya Trotter, it is a delight to have you guys on here.
46:17The War and Treaty.
46:19Um, and by the way, y'all are the first episode of Biscuits and Jam of the new
46:23season.
46:24So that's a special, this is a special one and just congrats on the Grammy
46:32nominations and ACMs and CMAs and every other thing you guys have going on and
46:39the new album.
46:40Um, I think it's going to be a great year for y'all and, uh, thanks for being on
46:44Biscuits and Jam.
46:45Oh, thank you so much for having us.
46:47We appreciate it.