In an exclusive interview with India Today, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar said that Maha Kumbh showcases India's rich diversity and spiritual wealth.
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00:00And joining me now as the Mahakum ends on this auspicious day of Mahashivratri is a very special guest.
00:07We are joined by Gurudev Shri Shri Ravi Shankar. Appreciate your joining us there, Gurudev.
00:14This is of course an auspicious day, Mahashivratri. The Mahakum has come to an end. Crores of devotees have taken the holy dip in the Ganga.
00:24What explains the phenomenon of the Mahakum according to you? Is it faith? Is it a bit of commerce and a bit of politics as well?
00:34What do you believe has been the driving force for crores of devotees to come every year, every 12 years to the Mahakum?
00:42Rajdeep, I see only three things. You mentioned three, I see three things.
00:51That three thing is faith, faith and faith. It's the devotion of people which is driving them there.
01:01And you know it's a deep-rooted faith from millenniums. People have been looking forward for the sacred dip every 12 years.
01:16And also many take dip every year also. The Mela also happens. But every 12 years is the Mahakum.
01:26And then every six years there is Ardhukum. These are all the festivals which are so deeply ingrained in the psyche of India.
01:35You know. But it just seems to get, it just seems Gurudev to get bigger and bigger each time.
01:45There seems to be a marketing blitz some would say also around it that contributes to people now being far more attracted to the Mahakum
01:54than they were in earlier times. That's where many believe the commercial angle comes.
01:59It's also a chance to show political power. So is it just about spirituality and faith or does it go well beyond that?
02:07No. See, commerce follows wherever there is faith and politics of course come around that
02:16because this is where the power center is. People are the power.
02:20And people want this and then for people everything else will happen.
02:25These are all the, you know, that obviously surrounds the central core which is faith.
02:34Of course the infrastructure has improved so much and so people are finding it easy to come there.
02:42Before it was so difficult to come because people had to book their trains.
02:47There were very few trains. Hardly there would be, you know, couple of free trains or special trains for Kumbh before.
02:58But now the facilities have, you know, have taken a quantum leap
03:06and that is where it has made people, given people hope to come there.
03:12Has it also therefore become a bit of a spectacle? Religion is often a very private personal matter.
03:22But now when you take the holy dip you will see celebrities arriving there with their entourage, VVIPs, photo ops.
03:30There seems to be a spectacle element around it or do you believe that sometimes obscures the faith of millions of anonymous Indians
03:40who also take the holy dip because the focus seems to be on the celebrities and VVIPs and not on the anonymous Indians?
03:47It's only with the media. I tell you it's not with the general people.
03:51General people are not caring who comes, who takes, who doesn't take.
03:55And we must remember even celebrities are human beings. Of course they have food, they have faith.
04:01They do everything like anybody else and they also want to take dip.
04:06What's wrong with them? Of course, they need a little bit more security.
04:10It's the media which projects them because media is used to only projecting celebrities.
04:17Common man, they are not bothered. They don't run after celebrities there.
04:23They are very devoted to their cause. They are lifting their eyes.
04:29This is the moment they come out of the deep material whirlpool that they are into to raise their eyes to something ethereal,
04:41something that they can't even explain.
04:45And everyone who goes there, goes with this deep feeling, you know,
04:51to get the darshan and take blessings from Ganga, Yamuna, the Sangam and then the saints there.
05:00All the gurus are there. It showcases the rich diversity of India and the spiritual wealth that we have.
05:11And so people are anyway connected to some or other spiritual organization.
05:17As you said, Gurudev, that the media chases the celebrities. It's the media which goes after VVIPs.
05:28But should there be, for example, separate arrangement for VVIPs or should once you go to the Kumbh,
05:34everyone be treated equal, whether you are VVIP or anonymous, much like election day.
05:39Do you believe somewhere spirituality loses out when it gets tied into photo ops and celebrityhood?
05:46And the spectacle takes over?
05:49You know, with the type of crowd that we have, if we invite international guests,
05:58you definitely need to make different arrangements for them.
06:03You know, there are culturally different and unless you make some arrangements for them also to witness the spectacle,
06:13there is nothing wrong in it.
06:15I don't see if there is a separate Ghat for some people who want to come and take dip,
06:21people in position, people who are well known.
06:25That should not be a problem.
06:28They just come and take their dip or whatever and they leave.
06:34But, you know, that's very small, very tiny aspect of Kumbh.
06:40And one good thing is they are not on this side of the Kumbh where the main Sangam everybody is taking dip.
06:48The government made arrangements for them so far away on the other side, on the other bank,
06:54and I don't see there is any problem there.
06:58This also saves, because when celebrity goes up, suppose people want to, you know,
07:05surround them and take selfies, take pictures, that will become even more nuisance.
07:11It can cause even stampede. You see, people want to take selfies and pictures.
07:17So, if they are getting a different arrangements, it's for law and order.
07:22It is needed to maintain law and order.
07:25There was a stampede in fact. Sure.
07:28You know, there was a stampede in fact on January 29th and tragic stampede.
07:34There are different figures of how many people died. Should there have been greater remorse shown?
07:42When the stampede takes place, it's the ordinary people who died.
07:46Do you believe that therefore, you know, there should have been maybe greater remorse at the loss of lives?
07:53Of course, there is remorse and I have personally met Yogiji
08:00and he was rushing to the hospital to meet with the people and he was so pained.
08:07And I was so pained, I was there the next day, there and I could see, you know, how much disaster has happened.
08:19It is really a painful incidence, of course. Nobody can deny that.
08:25And it's unfortunate. It was unseen. It was not foreseen. It was unfortunate.
08:32And as you said, if celebrities come as a normal people, this type of thing would have happened even more everywhere.
08:40So, this is a very, very, that's a dark spot in it, that one incident that has happened.
08:47We all pray for the families who are victims of this unfortunate event.
08:54That's really painful and we need to see how, you know, in the future, yeah, this sort of things can be avoided.
09:04We are seeing whether it is Mahashivratri today or Mahakom, the rise, many believe, of a certain cultural Hindu consciousness.
09:16Some would interpret as the rise of the political Hindu. How do you see it?
09:22The fact that we are seeing many more people openly expressing their religiosity far more overtly.
09:30Is this a rise of a certain cultural consciousness, according to you, a spiritual consciousness or a political consciousness?
09:38Yeah, of course. See, in Hindi they say, you know, Rajashtra.
09:45Unless there is empowerment, cultural, spiritual, social empowerment for people, they feel suffocated.
09:56Before also people used to do, many people of political parties, leaders would come and take deep,
10:03but they would not do it under cover. They would feel so ashamed.
10:07They will go to mandir, they put a tilak and then they will come out and immediately rub the tilak.
10:13We were not honoring our own roots. We were ashamed of who we are because of the colonial rule.
10:22Now that is gone, so we are proudly proclaiming who we are.
10:28We are honest to ourselves. That dishonesty, that deceit and hypocrisy is gone.
10:36I would say people are just open and that is how people are around the world.
10:41If you go to any other country, they proudly proclaim who they are and they take pride in their roots.
10:50In this country, that was a big drawback.
10:55Even when people go from here to abroad, they will change their names, you see, just to feel respected.
11:04So now there is more respect to oneself, one's own roots, one's own culture.
11:10There is more empowerment and I would say it's a welcome thing that has happened in the world.
11:16Everyone, whosoever it is, they must be proud of who they are and not be apologetic for what their practices or their faith.
11:27It's interesting you are saying that because I remember Gurudev Shri Shri Ravi Shankar meeting you during the Dharam Sansad in 2001
11:39which was also held during the Kumbh. It wasn't called the Maha Kumbh there then in 2001.
11:46And that Dharam Sansad had all the sadhu sons coming together, appealing for a Ram Mandir to be built.
11:53The Mandir then is eventually built last year. The BJP is now come to power, riding, many believe, on the back of the Mandir movement in the 1990s.
12:01Is that political edge still there which we saw during the Dharam Sansad?
12:06Or do you believe the politics has become much less now?
12:09As journalist you would be able to do all those analysis. Rajdeep, I don't have time to sit and analyze.
12:19I am everyday engaged with dealing with the issues that people have.
12:26We have huge challenges with mental health issues and we have suicidal tendencies that people are undergoing.
12:35Gen Z is very much impacted with the mental health crisis.
12:40So I am so busy in these sort of things. Political analysis, you would be the best person to say it, you know.
12:50And I would say...
12:52No, I ask you this because religion and politics have often co-existed.
12:59Yeah, yeah, they do co-exist. They have always co-existed.
13:03And of course, you know, wherever there are people and there is faith and politics is with the people.
13:11Wherever people are there, there will be politics. Right?
13:19You know, devotees take that holy dip, Gurudev, during the Mahakum
13:25in the belief that it has the power to purify the soul and bring them in some way closer
13:30to liberation or, you know, to discover themselves.
13:34Do you believe that? Is that blind faith at one level?
13:38That a dip will purify the soul or do you believe that's an unfair way to describe it?
13:46No, this is perfect because it's like the dirt on the skin.
13:52Any dip will purify your skin, your soul, because your soul is Sachidanand.
13:59Your soul is full of bliss.
14:01Your soul is Nitya Shuddha, ever pure.
14:05Buddha Muttasvabhava.
14:07This is the entire Vedantic philosophy in a nutshell.
14:13That you are not born out of sin.
14:17You are pure by nature.
14:19A simple thing like a dip can bring you back to your true nature.
14:24So let go of the past.
14:27Let go of all the mental impressions that you are holding on to unnecessarily
14:33and see your life from a broader perspective.
14:36And so it is a way for uplifting one's spirit to higher consciousness.
14:43Forgiving the past and forgetting the past and coming to the present.
14:49It's so psychologically valid, this aspect that taking a dip, cold dip.
14:56And now the scientists have also come up with different experiments with the Ganga water.
15:04See how it is the most robust water which purifies itself.
15:11And it doesn't allow bacteria to grow in it.
15:16You must have heard about those things.
15:18And another beautiful thing has happened now.
15:23Gurudev, there is a debate on that.
15:28The Central Pollution Control Board has spoken about the water being infected by bacteria.
15:35The UP State Control Board has denied that.
15:38There are of course environmental issues and you have spoken in the past also about the need to preserve the environment.
15:46There are issues surely when so many people congregate whether the water is as clean as the government sometimes claims it to be.
15:55No, I agree there are issues when so many people come.
15:59You think it can all happen without some issues.
16:02Definitely there will be issues.
16:04But what I am saying is the water, the quality of the water, the nature of water which the scientists have said is something very amazing
16:14and it authenticates what our beliefs have been there for millennia.
16:19That's what I want to say.
16:22Okay.
16:24In conclusion I want to ask you, you said the Mahakum celebrates the diversity in a way of our culture, of Hinduism.
16:33Today is Mahashivratri. How do you celebrate Mahashivratri, Gurudev Sri Sri Ravi Shankar?
16:40What does it mean for you? I know you have also brought to life a Shivling in Dwarka, I believe.
16:50So what does this festival mean for you? How do you believe it celebrates the diversity of Hinduism?
16:58See Mahashivratri is the time when everyone meditates, everyone sings and prays for the well-being of all beings.
17:10Wellness of all beings. And this Shivratri is very special for me because this is the time when the Somnath Jyotirling
17:19has come to us here in the Ashram.
17:23You know a thousand years back Mahamudra Ghazni had broken the Shivling
17:28and the pieces of those stones were taken by some Agnihotris from Tanjavur district of Tamil Nadu
17:38and they were keeping in their homes and they made it into Shivling like this.
17:45Because they couldn't see the stone, a broken stone, so they gave a shape of Shivling
17:54and they were having it. Hundred years ago in 1924 they met with Kanchi Paramacharya,
18:05Chandrasekhar Saraswati ji. He told them don't bring it out now for another hundred years
18:14and keep it for hundred years with you. Afterwards in Ram temple it will happen, after that you can bring it out.
18:23And the Shankaracharya also said give it to a person in Bangalore by my name.
18:31He took my name and said you go and give it to him and that's how it has come to me.
18:37And then there is a report from the Gemology Institute, the scientific study about this material
18:46and it is so amazing Rajdeep to see that this has 140 Gauss of magnetic force in it.
18:59And the geologist said I have never seen something like this.
19:03And it has only 2% of iron and 78% of barium.
19:10And it behaves you know like a magnet, let me show you.
19:14Usually magnet is powerful in the end, right?
19:20But you will see it is powerful in the middle.
19:24The magnet is in the middle, there is no poles here.
19:33Shriji Ravi Shankar, in a way it is a very special day therefore I know for you, for your ashram.
19:40Can you see? Can you see this?
19:43Yes I can, yes I can and I wish you and all your followers therefore a very happy Mahashivratri.