El economista Magín Díaz explico que Donald Trump no podrá aplicar la fuerza como él quiera.
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00:30The Telematutino 11 has started, as always,
00:32grateful for the support you give us.
00:35Today is February 26, 2025.
00:39Tomorrow we celebrate the 178th anniversary
00:44of the first independence.
00:46And I make the comment because tomorrow we will not be in the
00:50air, there is a special program,
00:53178 years since we got rid of the Haitian yoke.
00:58Thank you to the pre-clarity of the founding father,
01:03Juan Pablo Duarte, and all his colleagues
01:07from the La Trinitaria Society.
01:09We have many topics today, and today we have a very special
01:12interview.
01:13We are joined by Mr. Majin Díaz.
01:16He is an economist, he is an engineer,
01:18and he was director of the General Directorate
01:21of Internal Taxes.
01:23There are many issues of interest in the economic area.
01:27On the other hand, I sometimes record the weekends,
01:31a financial comment.
01:34And I insist on the people who do not deposit,
01:39who do not invest their money in institutions that are not
01:44regulated by the central bank and supervised by the
01:49bank superintendence.
01:51Here are infinite cases of families who have lost everything
01:56because they took a guy who promised them that he was going
02:00to double their investment, that he was going to give them 40%
02:03a month.
02:05There is the case of Mantequilla, who is in prison.
02:08Do you remember Mantequilla?
02:09Mantequilla promised to double the investment,
02:14and that is impossible.
02:16People get involved, what they do is they take money from one
02:19and pay the interest with the money they take from another.
02:24This is what economists call a Ponzi scheme.
02:27There comes a time when they stop depositing,
02:29and he has no way of responding.
02:32He was imprisoned, but many people were left hooked.
02:36It is also the case of the cooperative of savings and
02:38modern loans, which are also non-regulated companies,
02:44and there they lost 2,500 million pesos.
02:48So, since it is not regulated, that money is lost.
02:52It is not the case of regulated, supervised institutions,
02:56where there is an intervention, assets are sold,
03:00and the money is returned to the person,
03:01but there is also a contingency fund,
03:04through which, up to a certain amount,
03:07the money is returned to all the borrowers.
03:10All this preamble is for the case of Jairo Joel González.
03:15He was more sophisticated.
03:18He traded with cryptocurrencies.
03:21You know that the cryptocurrency is a virtual currency
03:25that shoots up astronomically, but it also falls.
03:30And there are people who have made money,
03:32but using convenient channels.
03:35This guy sold himself as a great cryptocurrency expert,
03:39but he also had a company, supposedly put on the stock market.
03:44The file says that he swindled 100 million dollars.
03:47I think it's a mistake.
03:49It must be 100 million pesos.
03:51In any case, he was sentenced to five years in prison
03:56and returned 800,000 dollars
03:59and a compensation of 25 million pesos.
04:02Everyone who invented there,
04:04in cryptocurrencies and investments in stock markets,
04:08lost their money.
04:10And as much as it is repeated, as much as the case is said,
04:14people return and trust cautiously
04:18in individuals who are not real structures,
04:21they are ghost structures.
04:24On the other hand, an ambitious development plan
04:30was announced yesterday by President Abinader
04:33and the mayor of the National District, Carolina Mejia.
04:40A whole plan on the Malecón,
04:43which includes the 30th of May walk,
04:48it includes the whole square, it includes bridges,
04:51it includes many works of infrastructure.
04:55Very nice.
04:57Because that has led to an integrated plan,
05:00an initiative that seeks to promote the orderly growth of the city.
05:05But he doesn't know that there is no money for that.
05:09That is not going to happen.
05:10Another work that is given is the first Picasso, but no.
05:14The government is very limited in terms of capital resources
05:17and that is one of the issues that we are going to deal with
05:20with our guests in Majin Díaz.
05:22It is going to be very difficult
05:23because there are a lot of stopped works
05:26that are never concluded.
05:28For example, the Vanilla Circumvalation,
05:31the monorail that goes through the Duarte highway.
05:37You pass by it and you see it the same way.
05:39They are not working there.
05:41And just like that, there are a lot of works
05:44that are not moving forward.
05:48On the other hand,
05:50the executive director of the Center for Exportation and Investment
05:54yesterday offered data on the growth of exports
05:59and anyone who sees it at the titular level says,
06:01hey, but the country is doing well.
06:04Exports grew 28%, but from 2019 to 2024.
06:12In 2019, exports were 10,079 million
06:18and in 2024, only 12,925 million.
06:22In five years, we increased by 2 billion.
06:25But those are not national exports,
06:28those are total exports.
06:31And that is why she mentions the case of gold.
06:34But gold is not an income
06:36that fully enters the Dominican Republic.
06:39We have a part of gold.
06:41They talk about instruments and medical devices.
06:45Yes, that is a strong one, but from the Franco area.
06:50Jewelry articles.
06:52What do we have?
06:53Cocoa beans, bananas or bananas,
06:58cane rum, fresh avocados.
07:01Those are the real national exports.
07:06But if you add the two,
07:08the fact that it has grown only 28% in five years
07:12reveals that we are very bad in terms of industrial exports
07:16and we are worse because we still have a long way to go
07:19to the stage of high-tech exports.
07:24Although the president has talked a lot about that.
07:29The press raises the issue of price increases
07:33in agricultural products.
07:35But there are also price increases in general,
07:38and it is logical.
07:40If we have a type of change
07:42that has increased at a higher rate
07:45than previous periods,
07:48normally here the type of change increased by 3%.
07:53This year, or last year, it increased by 5.7%.
07:57And from December to February, it increased by 1.77%.
08:02So there is a shortage of dollars for importers.
08:08It is logical.
08:09I think that merchants and industrialists
08:13have not yet added to their prices
08:19the growth of the type of change.
08:23The central bank and the government have been helped.
08:29Finally, in a survey that was done to measure
08:34the efficiency of a series of officials,
08:37Dr. Santiago Hassin of Senasa,
08:40I have always said that Senasa is one of the best ARSs,
08:45which is better than many private ARSs,
08:49he got a score of 71%, 71 out of 100.
08:54He almost drew with Paine Enriquez of the Environment
08:58and with Kelvin Cruz of the Ministry of Sports.
09:03He has done a great job.
09:04It is true that, as the president pointed out two days ago,
09:07there is a deficit of 2 billion pesos
09:10because they manage the subsidized regime
09:14and the capital they give them is insufficient.
09:16They also manage a part of the contributory regime
09:22and there is an excess of 500 million.
09:24But, as you wish, there is a remaining deficit
09:29that the government will have to increase the capital
09:33or subsidize the resources.
09:35There are 2.5 million people who benefit from the programs,
09:40from the different programs that the National Health Service has.
09:45We are going to commercials.
09:47Don't miss the interview with Majin Díaz,
09:50economist and former director of the General Directorate of Internal Taxes.
10:46The interview with Telematutino is an important agenda.
10:50To discuss important topics, we have with us Mr. Majin Díaz.
10:54He is an engineer, an economist
10:56and was a great director of the General Directorate of Internal Taxes.
11:02Majin, I am grateful that you accepted the invitation.
11:06Of course, here we are.
11:08With many topics, Majin.
11:09You recently talked about the fiscal issue.
11:13You talked about something that is not a secret,
11:16that is, this government has reached the lowest levels of capital expenditure
11:21in terms of total spending or capital spending in terms of GDP.
11:25But you suggest that the adjustment is still greater for this year,
11:30taking things to a level where it seems that capital investment
11:34is going to be timid and that may explain the slowness in the works
11:37or the paralyzed works.
11:40Well, what happens is that the government's plan for this year
11:47was to approve a fiscal reform that would give an additional 1.5% of GDP.
11:55So, to balance the budget, since they did not give the resources,
11:59what was done was to lower the budgeted spending for this year.
12:03So, for you to have an idea,
12:05last year the spending was 19.5% of GDP.
12:11This year it is like 18%.
12:15So, there is an important adjustment.
12:17And, obviously, capital investment is always the easiest to adjust.
12:21I think the budget for this year is 2.2%.
12:25And in the medium term, it is 2% of GDP per year.
12:30So, the tendency is to decrease.
12:31Well, there is no way to maintain a deficit of 3% of GDP
12:36with income that is really stagnant,
12:40a current spending that has increased a lot.
12:42Well, what the government adjusts is the investment.
12:46Obviously, there is a paradox there, because the government says,
12:49I am responsible macroeconomically, I maintain a reasonable deficit.
12:55No economist can say that a deficit of 3, 3.5% of GDP
13:00is irrational or irresponsible.
13:02But if you have many years.
13:04No, we have 30 years.
13:06Now, what has decreased is the investment.
13:09I have been preaching on the subject for three years.
13:13This is unsustainable for the country.
13:16I am almost suggesting that the government should increase the deficit.
13:21It seems to me that the president cannot spend eight years
13:25with these levels of public investment.
13:27I don't know if the government and its officials are aware of this.
13:32There is an investment that the private sector will never make,
13:36a large surplus of infrastructure that the government has to pay.
13:40And for a country like this, the investment should be 4% of GDP per year
13:45for at least one generation, 3.5%.
13:49But no government has reached that level.
13:51Maybe in the time of Balaguer.
13:52No, no, Balaguer was 6% or 7%.
13:55But Leonel averaged almost 4% of GDP, really.
14:00With Danilo, the average was 3%.
14:04And now there have been two problems.
14:06Due to the budgetary restriction, the budget has been low,
14:11let's say around 2.5%.
14:14But sometimes they have not been able to execute it either.
14:17That one understood that in the first year.
14:19The whole world is new, the officials have changed,
14:22they did not know the new legal framework.
14:25In some institutions, they took out all the areas of purchase
14:28and then they had to re-hire them.
14:30Because you have a purchase expertise that was lost.
14:33But that can last a year, but it cannot last five years.
14:37There is still a problem of execution, and you say,
14:39here, what is happening?
14:41So now, forget about politics.
14:45Obviously, it is a main factor.
14:48As a country, I believe that investing 2% of GDP,
14:52we are seeing it.
14:54In the deterioration of quality of life.
14:56In other words, what is missing is infrastructure.
15:00The cities, the countries are progressing
15:02and have to invest in bridges, in elevators, in subways.
15:08There is no infrastructure in the country, it is being noticed a lot.
15:11I, as I told you,
15:14against my conservative principles as an economist,
15:18I am almost proposing that it is better to have a higher deficit,
15:23that the debt increases a little more,
15:26and that the investment in infrastructure increases a little more,
15:28that it is productive.
15:30Because this lack of investment in these five years,
15:33and if it continues like this in these eight years,
15:36that will persecute the country for a long time.
15:40It could also happen that
15:42investment is what stimulates the economy.
15:45So we do not have a fiscal stimulus.
15:47Well, let's say that I have also written it,
15:52that is, the Central Bank has left it alone.
15:55Exactly.
15:56I mean, it can't do it alone.
15:58So, really, let's say that because of the pandemic,
16:03although the pandemic is already falling behind,
16:04but we are going to blame everything, right?
16:08Current spending has increased in a brutal way
16:11and has remained very high.
16:13So, public investment spending is what can help you.
16:19For example, with the high interest rates that there have been
16:23in the last year, year and a half,
16:25construction is already being resented.
16:28You see it in the figures in the last few months.
16:31And resource releases have not been valid.
16:33No, but then there, public construction,
16:36investment in infrastructure can help the Central Bank.
16:40So, I think there is a serious problem,
16:43which is not a problem of the government.
16:45I think it is a problem of the whole society.
16:48And we have to sit down and see how we can find a way out.
16:53Obviously, the government's plan was to make a reform,
16:58but also that reform with that money
17:00is going to continue to increase current spending,
17:02a part of it, that has to be seen.
17:05Now, the levels of investment,
17:06I think they are unsustainable, of the government.
17:09And it seems that the government is not in another fiscal reform.
17:14Well, it's not about whether it is or not.
17:16I think it's going to be very difficult,
17:18because it has tried three or four times.
17:20I mean, it wasn't just the previous one.
17:22It tried in 2020, it tried in 2021.
17:26At the administrative level, it tried in 2022 and 2023,
17:31one or another resolution or norm,
17:33it had to back out.
17:35So, well, it has already backed out many times,
17:38and it's going to be difficult for it.
17:40It had many technical questions, the last reform.
17:44I mean, it would have to be well advised.
17:48Now, governments have to do things when they are needed.
17:52If the country needs a reform, it will have to do it.
17:55There will never be an optimal time for that.
17:57There will always be 10,000 reasons
17:59for people to say not to do it.
18:02But it would seem that the next government would be forced.
18:06Well, that's what the book says.
18:08Because the reform was not made,
18:12and the fiscal situation was left in limbo.
18:15I mean, the problem is going to worsen.
18:19The interest rate this year is similar to the cost of education.
18:23Nobody knows how much it is,
18:26at the absolute level, relative to any expense.
18:28Education, one knows, 4% of GDP.
18:32But interest is going to be 4% of GDP, practically.
18:36So, you can't let two parties take almost 60% of your income.
18:44That's very dangerous.
18:46And how do you explain that with this fiscal situation,
18:50we are also seen from the outside,
18:53well classified by the classifying companies,
18:57we have a GEMBIT of just 200 points,
19:00the lowest that even countries with a degree of investment.
19:03What do they see in the Dominican Republic?
19:04Well, they are right.
19:08There are really few economies that show sustained growth.
19:12Because it's not that anyone can grow for a year or two.
19:17The point is, you grow 30 years, 40 years,
19:21and clearly this economy maintains a sustained growth.
19:26This is an economy that has no monetary inflation,
19:30let's say, a product of irresponsibility of the central bank.
19:33The central bank is independent,
19:35there is no risk that the government will finance itself with the central bank,
19:39which is what can produce a great inflation.
19:43Another thing is that prices go up, because oil goes up,
19:47because there is a drought in the agricultural sector.
19:50So, you have a stable financial system.
19:53So, macroeconomic stability is where the star is.
19:58You have a very diversified currency flow,
20:01you have tourism, you have the Franco zone, you have remittances,
20:05foreign investment is going well.
20:07So, there are reasons to have a good rating,
20:10and that rating is relative.
20:12The rest of the countries are very bad.
20:15So, I think there are reasons to have maintained it.
20:18Now, to raise it from here is going to be very difficult,
20:22because there is no...
20:25We are not going to achieve the degree of investment in this government.
20:27No, no, not in this government.
20:29I think it is a good goal to have put that in place.
20:31That is going to be a great benefit for the country.
20:34But the main variable that the rating companies see
20:40is the burden of interest.
20:42So, you have a country that is dedicating
20:44almost 25% of its income to paying interest.
20:48Similar countries, 10%, 12%, here it is 25%, practically.
20:54And remember that the government has presented better indicators,
20:58because every year they used to ask for a tax advance.
21:02And if it is not a bank advance, it is aerodrome,
21:04if not, the barringol, if not, big companies.
21:07So, there you have to see that the deficit would have been higher,
21:12or the investment expense lower.
21:15Really, the evasion has increased, I imagine.
21:19Well, what can be said is that it has not gone down.
21:23When you eliminate the impact of tax advances
21:27and the operation of aerodrome,
21:30the tax burden is the same as five years ago, in 2019.
21:35Now, that is also dangerous for the government.
21:40We run the risk now, which is a real risk,
21:43that eight years later it will be the same tax burden as in 2019.
21:48That is, zero advance.
21:4912%, 13% more.
21:51Yes, sometimes, close to 14%, it depends on how you measure it.
21:55Now, there are other income that did not exist before.
21:57For example, Punta Catalina gives 250 million dollars a year, 200 million.
22:03So, there are non-tax income.
22:04You were also a worker at Punta Catalina.
22:06No, I wasn't.
22:07Luckily, no.
22:09It was Jaime.
22:09No, it was Jaime, sorry, it was Jaime.
22:10Of course.
22:12There are other non-tax income that has increased,
22:14but basically, the tax burden is the same.
22:17Now, the government has done what it has had to do to survive.
22:23I understand that with COVID, anything was justified.
22:27You asked for a tax advance, but when you turn it into a practice,
22:31when you analyze the structural problem, then we are worse.
22:35Imagine, in all this, the Central Bank has been trying to replace the government
22:42with stimulus policies, FLR, legal linkage liberation,
22:47trying to reduce the rate of monetary policy.
22:50However, we are seeing a situation in which interest rates do not go down.
22:56They have remained at 15.5, the rate has not been weighted,
23:00but then the exchange rate is going up.
23:05For an academic economist, what is happening is beautiful.
23:11It's sad to say it, but it's the reality.
23:14And if you look at the academics, Jaime Aristi, Andy,
23:18Juan Ariel wrote last week, Raúl Ovalle.
23:23They have written about this for two years, because this is in all the books.
23:28In all the books on macroeconomics,
23:31that's what one of Andy's professors said in the 70s, Mundell.
23:35In other words, the bank is operating in a context of high interest rates.
23:41So, for more than ten years, the rates were zero in the United States,
23:46but now they are not zero.
23:48Now, the interest rate has reached almost 5%,
23:52the Central American Bank has reached almost 5%,
23:57and that creates a pressure to change here.
24:00Now, what happens in many countries, where there is an inflation target scheme,
24:06is that the exchange rate floats, it is the one that adjusts the economy.
24:09So, when you have an inflation target, in theory,
24:12the exchange rate must be perfectly flexible.
24:15That's what happens in many countries.
24:17Now, the problem here is that the Central Bank has an inflation target
24:21and it has a target for exchange stability.
24:25And that is not compatible when rates are increasing outside.
24:29So, now, in part,
24:33one thing is to be outside theoretically, and another thing is to be inside.
24:39There are people who say, let the exchange rate float.
24:43But be careful with the prices.
24:45Not only because of the price transfer, but also because of the electricity sector,
24:49which is dollarized, and 70% of the government's debt is in dollars.
24:55So, the Central Bank has always been managed with relative stability.
25:01Let's say that it depreciates historically 3.5%, 4%.
25:05And that is healthy for the economy,
25:08because you cannot have it completely fixed, because it breaks down the exporters.
25:13The issue now is that there is a pressure to depreciate,
25:16because the interest rates outside are high.
25:19So, what does the bank do?
25:22Let's put a reserve so that it doesn't go up so fast.
25:26Now, it has gone up 6% last year.
25:28I think that the time when the exchange rate depreciated 3% has already passed.
25:33Exactly.
25:34So, people have to get used to it now,
25:36which is a slightly higher depreciation,
25:39but the Central Bank doesn't want to let it go, and you're right.
25:43Because of the impact on inflation and the electricity sector.
25:46And how far does the reserve go?
25:47The reserve is still at a historically high level.
25:49Well, the reserve is like insurance.
25:54It is expensive to accumulate it, very expensive.
25:56People don't understand that, but it costs money.
26:00But it's like insurance that the Central Bank pays,
26:02so that when it has to use it, it uses it.
26:04Now, since this situation started, which was a year and a half ago,
26:08it's like $4 billion.
26:10The reserve reached $16,000,
26:12and now it's like $12,200.
26:15That's the last time I checked.
26:17So, well...
26:19Now, there's a relief with the placement of bonuses.
26:22Yes, they've already placed those bonuses, but that's going to be temporary.
26:25The pressure is going to be the whole year,
26:27as long as the rates don't go down in the United States.
26:30And in the first half, they're not going to go down.
26:33The market is already realizing that they're not going to go down,
26:39and what is incorporated now in the probabilities in the American market
26:43is that in the first half, the rates are not going to go down.
26:46So, the bank is going to handle this pressure,
26:49probably, at least during the first half.
26:54We're going to take a break.
26:55This conversation is extremely interesting, I imagine.
26:58We'll be back in a few minutes.
27:34THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPARENCY
27:36CONTINUES ITS INTERVIEW WITH MAGÍN DÍAZ
27:38EX-DIRECTOR OF THE DGI
27:41MAGÍN, LET'S GO BACK TO THE INTERNATIONAL SCENARIO WITH DONALD TRUMP.
27:47There was a moment, after the pandemic,
27:49in which the great promotion of Donald Trump
27:52to the presidency of the United States
27:55was a very important moment in the history of the United States.
27:59There was a moment, after the pandemic,
28:01in which the great promise, as Mr. Schoring called it,
28:05we heard economists, politicians, the President of the Republic,
28:09that the great advantage was the relocation
28:12of the companies that were in China,
28:15here near, well, Mexico was the country that benefited the most,
28:19and then Costa Rica.
28:20Now, with Trump's policies,
28:23of aranceles,
28:24and for companies to settle, but there,
28:28Schoring has a chance.
28:31Look, the policy that the government should follow now is very easy.
28:35That's what Trump says.
28:38It's because he's a bulldozer.
28:41And we are a small country.
28:43The ideal is that he doesn't have such a small country on the radar.
28:46That he doesn't have an executive order.
28:48Exactly. Now, a very good sign is
28:51that the first visit of the Secretary of State was to this region,
28:55and he included us.
28:58So, we have to align ourselves with Trump.
29:01We are very small
29:04for the commercial problem
29:07that is Trump's goal.
29:09There is Canada, Mexico, China.
29:12And also, it is superior for them, the trade.
29:15Exactly. That is one of the criteria that he uses.
29:19He is wrong in everything he says about
29:22trade and aranceles.
29:23I mean, there is no sensible economist.
29:27Everything he says is wrong.
29:29And the policy of aranceles,
29:30who is more harmed is the North Americans themselves.
29:33In every sense, it is inefficient, it increases prices.
29:37That's why one thinks that he uses it as a mechanism of negotiation
29:42by force, but he won't be able to apply it as he wants
29:46because he is going to harm the United States himself.
29:50I mean, he doesn't have a head or a foot for that.
29:53In Mexico, a lot of North American companies have been established.
29:57I have seen that many of them already had plans and plans.
30:00Yes, of course, because it creates uncertainty.
30:03All the production chain is linked
30:06in Canada, the United States and Mexico.
30:09The inputs come from Canada, from Mexico, from the United States.
30:13It is interrelated.
30:17We have the advantage that we are close.
30:19We are small.
30:21The United States is always our natural ally
30:24and now he is going to have to do it with more force
30:26because I think we have to align with what he says.
30:31And well, we can benefit.
30:33I mean, I'm not so pessimistic about that.
30:36I think the fact that the Secretary of State came to the country
30:40is a great sign.
30:42Obviously, for a few years,
30:43you have to forget a lot about the relationship with China.
30:48And the Chinese don't care much about that
30:50because their horizon is always 200 years, 300 years.
30:53It's an empire.
30:54That doesn't affect them that there is a president against them,
30:57a North American.
30:58Their horizon goes through generations.
31:01Maintain a cordial relationship, but...
31:03You submit in the long term.
31:05Defeat the century of humiliation.
31:07Exactly, that doesn't affect them at all.
31:10So I'm not so pessimistic about those factors that I told you about.
31:15But this is Haiti's part.
31:17It doesn't seem that Trump puts money in Haiti.
31:20No, he doesn't have any incentive now.
31:22And with this issue that they took away the TPA,
31:26or the TPS from the Haitians,
31:28the perspective is that half a million Haitians will return to Haiti.
31:33Well, not to Haiti, to the island.
31:35To the island, yes.
31:37I think that's the main problem in our country.
31:40Now, I think that there is a North American government
31:43that understands more.
31:44And again, look, when they were doing the interview
31:50to ratify Marcos Rubio,
31:52he mentioned the Dominican Republic and the Haitian problem.
31:55And that's good.
31:57And they can't criticize now
32:00the issue that we want to control immigration
32:04because that's what they're doing in their country.
32:06So now, if 500,000 Haitians return,
32:10that's an almost impossible crisis.
32:13We live on the same island
32:15as the country with the highest growth rate in the hemisphere
32:18and the poorest country in the world, practically.
32:21Where are they going?
32:22So that's a problem that we can't solve.
32:27We don't have the resources.
32:29The international community,
32:31that's what the president said, should intervene.
32:34The United States has another agenda, obviously.
32:37I don't think they're going to put resources.
32:40The government will have to continue
32:42to make its journey internationally,
32:45but knowing that maybe they won't help us.
32:47So we have to have a plan.
32:50Definitely.
32:51Majin, your projections for growth this year
32:54are no longer 5%.
32:57No, it's not 5%.
32:58Now, this economy always surprises.
33:01As I said at the beginning,
33:03you're already seeing, for example, the construction sector,
33:06which had negative growth in November and December,
33:10partly because of the high interest rates.
33:13That's the sector that always pushes the economy.
33:15It didn't happen last year, only two grew.
33:18What pushed was services, commerce, tourism.
33:22So probably January and February, that trend continues.
33:27So let's say that for now we have to be more conservative.
33:29And I think that if this year we grow 3.5%, 4%,
33:32it would be a great result.
33:36Compared to the potential growth of 5%.
33:39But obviously there are exogenous conditions in Argentina
33:42that don't point to growth.
33:44Latin America is growing 2%,
33:46so we're going to grow twice as much.
33:50But it's an international environment
33:52with a lot of uncertainty
33:54and a world that has changed in terms of interest rates,
33:57which are going to stay high longer than expected
33:59at an international level.
34:01Majin Diaz, as always,
34:02I'm very grateful for your specific, correct, and incisive approaches.
34:07Of course, thank you.
34:08Thank you very much.
34:09Thank you for the invitation.
34:10I hope to see you again someday in the DGP.
34:12Oh no, don't say that.
34:13So that it can walk again and get better.
34:18Because you did it well.
34:19I remember that Andy Davos wrote an article
34:21that just like Valdez Albizu, the government had left him,
34:25they should have left you.
34:27We're fine now as we are.
34:29Thank you, Majin.
34:30Thank you, Majin.
34:31We're going to commercials.
34:32From the economy, we go to the carnival.
34:34And we're going to talk to Roberto Tejada,
34:37that famous folklorist.
34:39And I want Stalin Alcántara,
34:41Deputy Mayor of the National District.
35:00And I want Stalin Alcántara,
35:02Deputy Mayor of the National District.
35:30And I want Stalin Alcántara,
35:31Deputy Mayor of the National District.
35:33And I want Stalin Alcántara,
35:34Deputy Mayor of the National District.
35:36And I want Stalin Alcántara,
35:37Deputy Mayor of the National District.
35:38On such gloomy issues as the economy and the economic situation,
35:42we are going to move to joy, to the carnival of 2025.
35:46And for that we are going to talk to Lucilita Matos.
35:49She is in charge of culture of the City Council of Santo Domingo
35:54and is also coordinator of the carnival.
35:58And we have a figure who honors us,
36:01a long-time folklorist.
36:04I was talking when I was in high school,
36:07Dagoberto lives on a bicycle,
36:10and so with his clothes.
36:12That caught the attention of the students.
36:14And how good that you are active, Dagoberto. Welcome.
36:17No, no, Javier.
36:19For me it is a great satisfaction.
36:22Thank you, thank you.
36:23What do we have again, Lucilita?
36:25Carnival, which is on Sunday.
36:27On Sunday, March 3rd, at 3pm.
36:30No, no, March 2nd.
36:32March 2nd, at 3pm.
36:34Look.
36:37Sunday, March 2nd, at 3pm.
36:39In the Malecón of the National District,
36:43we have this carnival gala,
36:47together with the Carnival Union of the National District.
36:56There is a Carnival Union?
36:58Yes, there is a Carnival Union.
37:01They belong to all the neighborhoods of the National District.
37:05Together with them, we celebrate what we call the Carnival Gala.
37:11Dagoberto is an expert.
37:13He has been to all the carnivals.
37:15Since 1983.
37:17Since 1983.
37:18So it's been several decades.
37:21And he's been working on all the carnivals.
37:24Yes.
37:25I have about 8 or 10 books on carnival.
37:31And there is one that collects the carnivals of all the towns in the country.
37:37Because each town has its own carnival.
37:39Yes, yes.
37:40But the one in the capital is the one in the capital.
37:43The district carnival, before 1520,
37:48there was carnival in the city of Santo Domingo, on the streets.
37:51It's the oldest carnival, not only on the island, but in America.
37:57The first carnival in America.
38:00And we import that from where? Spain or Africa?
38:03Not from Spain.
38:04But it got richer with the African presence.
38:08And it welcomed as an indicator of nationality, of identity,
38:15all the indigenous part.
38:19So it was a mix.
38:21Yes.
38:22In almost all the carnivals there are comparsas.
38:26And there was a moment, after the restoration,
38:30that the indigenous symbol was the symbol of identity.
38:35And we found, for example,
38:38the most important comparsa in the country
38:43appeared in 1942,
38:46which is the comparsa of the San Carlos Indians.
38:50And they did a theatrical representation on a street level.
38:57And it was the meeting between indigenous and Spaniards,
39:01but from the point of view of the indigenous and not the Spanish.
39:06And no intellectual wrote it,
39:09but they were the same people of the comparsa.
39:13That's why it has things that didn't exist, unimaginable.
39:18On Sundays I would meet with the last 15 members of that comparsa.
39:26I recorded because it was a theatrical representation.
39:30It had dialogue, it had characters.
39:35And I picked up a book.
39:37How interesting.
39:39And that has remained the enthusiasm of the government.
39:43No, no, the other way around.
39:45It has totally increased,
39:48especially since 1983,
39:51when, miraculously,
39:54José Francisco Peña Gómez failed to return and I organized
39:59the first national carnival parade,
40:03which only with the pandemic was not done.
40:07After all these years,
40:11what is it?
40:12A synthesis of the different local carnivals
40:17that show the great diversity of staff and comparsa.
40:24And then in this case, a massive participation is expected.
40:29Yes.
40:30A lot of carriages.
40:32For example,
40:35this year, between staff and comparsa,
40:38there are more than 80.
40:40That means that there are more than 3,500 carnivalers
40:44who are going to parade.
40:46Those carnivalers,
40:49nowadays,
40:52you can say that they are the ones who have the most support
40:58at the level of the mayors,
41:00at the level of the towns.
41:02Only the carnivalers are given
41:07and it is done as an investment and not as an expense.
41:10About 12 million.
41:12For example.
41:13I was going to ask the question, who finances it?
41:15Yes.
41:16Because it is expensive.
41:18It is within our budget.
41:20The investment is more or less between 20 and 30 million.
41:24But only the carnivalers.
41:26So much for the show and for the preservation of our values.
41:30No, no.
41:31At this moment,
41:33the carnival is the manifestation of the most transcendent popular culture.
41:40There is no one, not even the political manifestations,
41:44that competes with the carnival.
41:46There are no political manifestations.
41:48Because the carnival is a catharsis.
41:50You go if you want.
41:51You disguise what you want.
41:53You go when you want.
41:55So.
41:56What allows that?
41:58That what you can't say in everyday life
42:03is expressed in the carnival.
42:05So the carnival is a catharsis and at the same time,
42:09a counter-statement.
42:11And.
42:12Who does the carnival?
42:14The poor.
42:15The people.
42:17With a creative capacity.
42:19You, for example.
42:22Mention La Carrosa.
42:24Look.
42:25If you were looking for a professional designer
42:28to make you a Carrosa,
42:30it's between one and a half million or two million.
42:34These guys,
42:36last year,
42:37began to create
42:41a Carrosa almost made with waste.
42:45Recycling.
42:46But works of art.
42:49Works of art.
42:51So.
42:53We have a vision
42:56that there are at least 29 prizes.
43:00In different categories.
43:03The Alibabas.
43:04Popular creativity.
43:06The traditional devils.
43:08The fantasy devils.
43:12Fantasy comparsas.
43:14History comparsas.
43:16Etc., etc., etc.
43:18And we have.
43:19For example.
43:22Prize.
43:23In all categories there are three prizes.
43:26But there are two very special prizes.
43:28Three very special prizes.
43:30First.
43:31The great comparsa.
43:32It is the best comparsa
43:34that parades on Sunday.
43:37That has a prize of 300,000.
43:41The Carrosas.
43:43They have three prizes.
43:45And they are three prizes that in the first place
43:47are 150,000 pesos.
43:50And there is a prize of recognition
43:53to a carnavalero.
43:55To a carretero.
43:56Or to a modista.
43:58Who has dedicated his life to the carnival.
44:01That is in honor of a doctor
44:04who has more than 50 years disguising himself.
44:07A doctor.
44:08As a doctor he disguises himself.
44:10And who is that doctor?
44:11Doctor Correa.
44:13So we have created the Doctor Correa Prize.
44:17About 100,000 pesos for a carnavalero.
44:20In such a way that we see the dimension
44:24of the popular participation
44:27like no other carnival in the country.
44:29This carnival, as Lucelita says,
44:33is a carnival gala.
44:36You have, for example,
44:38the Cotui carnival is the carnival
44:43more linked to nature.
44:47It is more democratic because
44:50the main costumes are
44:52of newspaper paper.
44:56Or dried banana leaves.
44:59Or any type of leaf.
45:01So they have that attraction.
45:05In La Vega we are going to find
45:08the greatest diversity that can exist
45:12about the Diablos Cojuelos.
45:14Now, San Juan de la Maguana
45:18presents the greatest diversity
45:22of characters linked to their legend,
45:25to their traditions, to their history.
45:28So it is worth it,
45:30it is worth it
45:32what the carnival means
45:35and the national carnival parade.
45:37But the comparsas that on Sunday
45:41win in our parade
45:44of the city council, of the mayor's office,
45:48those are the ones that represent
45:51the national district
45:53in the national carnival parade.
45:55Perfectly.
45:57So, Sunday.
46:02Sunday.
46:03At two in the afternoon.
46:05At three in the afternoon.
46:06From three in the afternoon.
46:07Now, I tell you the following.
46:10The one who stays at home
46:12and goes to television
46:14says, oh God, how did I stay here?
46:16I was crazy.
46:18The one who doesn't go,
46:19and doesn't go to television
46:20and they tell him,
46:22he says, but for God's sake,
46:24next year I won't go.
46:25It's not the same as live.
46:26No, no, no, no.
46:28Because the carnival
46:30allows you to say and do
46:34what everyday life forbids you to do.
46:36It's the other way around.
46:38It's a catharsis.
46:40It's a social catharsis.
46:42That's why it's the most spontaneous,
46:45the most democratic manifestation
46:47in all expressions of popular culture.
46:51I am very grateful to you
46:53because you have allowed me
46:54to finish the program in a cheerful way
46:56and sharing all these cultural elements.
46:58Thank you very much, Lucilita.
47:02Lucilita, yes.
47:04Lucilita Matos, from the city council.
47:07It's very important.
47:09It's an inclusive carnival.
47:12We are working with Conadis
47:15and we have a platform for them
47:18with their ramps and everything.
47:20We are working hand in hand with them.
47:23That's important information.
47:25And as an innovation,
47:27all over the front of the O.M.O. Park
47:30there will be free stands
47:33instead of the fence.
47:35Instead of the fence
47:37where people would stand in the back,
47:39we will have fences on both sides.
47:41The press stand,
47:44but the inclusive stand
47:47is very important.
47:49It's a family afternoon.
47:52We have all the entities,
47:55National Police,
47:57Civil Defense, 9-11,
48:00we have support,
48:02the economic eaters,
48:04the municipal police,
48:06everything,
48:08the security armada.
48:10We also focus on family security.
48:16At least in the last 8 or 10 years
48:19there has been no incident
48:22that we can regret.
48:24So it's a carnival of security,
48:27a family carnival.
48:30Perfect. Thank you very much.
48:32Maestro, it's been a great pleasure.
48:36I'm going to make contact
48:38because I've always wanted to do an interview with him.
48:41Meeting you.
48:43I have a lot of affection and admiration for you.
48:46Your life has been this.
48:49Thank you very much.
48:51And with this we say goodbye.
48:53Tomorrow we don't have a program
48:55because the TV system has
48:57a special program
48:59because of the memory presentation
49:01of President Abinader.
49:03But we'll see each other, God willing,
49:05on Friday to comment on the speech.
49:27© transcript Emily Beynon