MotorTrend's Ed Loh & Jonny Lieberman sit down with Everrati Founder & CEO Justin Lunny. Everrati is electrifying your favorite classics! From Mercedes
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MotorTranscript
00:00:00Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by Motor Trend.
00:00:03Inspired by the future, designed for the now.
00:00:15Hi there and welcome to another episode of The Inevitable.
00:00:19This is Motor Trend's podcast,
00:00:21our vodcast on the future of mobility.
00:00:23I forgot to ring the bell.
00:00:25That was my Johnny Lieberman impression, if you missed it.
00:00:28He is not here today.
00:00:30He is chilling in Frankfurt or Austria.
00:00:32He's on some press boondoggle,
00:00:35I think driving Audis on ice.
00:00:37There's a fat ice race going on, F.A.T.
00:00:41You should look it up, it's very cool.
00:00:43But he's not here, which is somewhat ironic
00:00:46because it's his buddy we have on the show today.
00:00:50A very fine British gentleman by the name of Justin Lunney.
00:00:53He's the founder and CEO of Everati.
00:00:57And this episode, I guess, is about the future
00:01:00or the current state of electric restomods.
00:01:05These are vehicles, iconic vehicles, as you'll learn,
00:01:08being converted to gasp of horrors electric vehicles.
00:01:14Yes, we've had at least a couple of folks
00:01:17on to talk about what they're doing in this space.
00:01:20There's a lot of folks in the automotive industry
00:01:23in the aftermarket that are converting vehicles
00:01:25from internal combustion to electrification.
00:01:28But Everati has a somewhat unique take on this,
00:01:31both in the types of vehicles they're doing
00:01:33and the quality, the price, and the approach.
00:01:37It's a fantastic conversation.
00:01:40It's very soothing because you don't have to listen to me
00:01:42and this American twang I got.
00:01:45You'll listen to Justin and his very posh British accent
00:01:49as he explains what an Everati vehicle is,
00:01:53how they go to market,
00:01:54and what the driving experience is all about.
00:01:57So without further ado, Justin Lunney,
00:01:59founder, CEO of Everati Automotive Limited.
00:02:03All right, so Justin Lunney from Everati.
00:02:08Thank you for coming in.
00:02:09Absolutely, pleasure.
00:02:10Pleasure to be here.
00:02:10I understand you actually flew from London
00:02:12to be on the podcast.
00:02:13I did indeed, yeah.
00:02:15I mean, I've arranged some travel around it,
00:02:17but yeah, it's great to be here.
00:02:18I hope you had other business,
00:02:20like much more important than this.
00:02:22Okay, well, I know you've been asked this question
00:02:25many times before,
00:02:26but can you just summarize what Everati's mission is?
00:02:31Yeah, our starting point really
00:02:34is keeping incredibly iconic cars on the road
00:02:38and treating them with respect and dignity.
00:02:42But underlying all that is a technology business.
00:02:44So really we surface the technology that we're developing
00:02:48and the powertrains we're developing through these cars.
00:02:52I suppose in some ways,
00:02:53a bit of a lower cost way of exposing that
00:02:56than Rimac did with their Nivera,
00:02:58but we're building the brand.
00:03:00And then it's very much about best in class powertrains,
00:03:03I guess, and how we take that to market.
00:03:05Okay, I noticed you didn't say EV in there,
00:03:09but is it primarily exclusively battery electric?
00:03:13Absolutely right, yeah, that's right.
00:03:15And converting iconic vehicles,
00:03:18starting with 964 Porsches.
00:03:21That's right, so we kind of took the view
00:03:25that we have right now four vehicles that we focus on.
00:03:31As you said, the 964, there's a Land Rover Series,
00:03:34Mercedes Pagoda, and actually a GT40,
00:03:38all very, very different types of vehicles, as you know.
00:03:42But the key thing aligned to that
00:03:44is we have our own VCU and software
00:03:46that means that we can do everything
00:03:48from a Land Rover to a GT40 and beyond
00:03:51with the same architecture and infrastructure
00:03:53so that we can kind of almost do any vehicle.
00:03:56But I suppose the key thing here
00:03:58is that each model we create
00:04:00is about four or 5,000 hours of development.
00:04:02So it's not just swapping,
00:04:04it's considering weight, weight distribution,
00:04:06and various other things.
00:04:08What's a VCU?
00:04:09Vehicle Control Unit, so it's kind of the software,
00:04:11the software stack and the hardware
00:04:13that controls the vehicle.
00:04:15Okay, all right.
00:04:19You said respect and dignity,
00:04:21treating iconic vehicles with respect and dignity.
00:04:24I have to apologize in advance
00:04:25because neither respect nor dignity
00:04:27is what you will get in the comments section of this podcast
00:04:30from a certain, I'll call it faction,
00:04:34of automotive enthusiasts who frankly think the idea
00:04:38of removing the internal combustion powertrains
00:04:41of some of these vehicles, the essence,
00:04:43and replacing it with soulless, lifeless, soundless,
00:04:48EV powertrains is anathema
00:04:50to high-performance automotive enthusiasm.
00:04:56Yeah.
00:04:57Put another way, they hate this idea.
00:04:59What do you say to the crowd
00:05:01that is invariably going to be in the comments section
00:05:03of our YouTube clip, of our YouTube show
00:05:05and the social media clip
00:05:06when they hear about what you are doing?
00:05:08So not the first time we've heard this.
00:05:11So I think, look, I think the key thing here
00:05:13to say is that we're doing this
00:05:15to keep these cars on the road
00:05:17as opposed to ruin them.
00:05:19It's funny, I'm actually going to see Magnus Walker
00:05:22this afternoon and we're doing some driving
00:05:23up at Angeles Crest.
00:05:25And I think, you know, what people find
00:05:27when they drive these things is they are different.
00:05:29Don't, you know, they're not the same,
00:05:32but we're not doing it to the Holy Grail cars.
00:05:33You know, the cars we start with
00:05:35are typically a 964 Tiptronic 204, right?
00:05:40And the reason we can get hold of them
00:05:42is because no one really loves them,
00:05:44being perfectly honest.
00:05:45You know, they're not the Holy Grail cars,
00:05:47the Tiptronic, you know, it's of that era.
00:05:51You know, the Land Rover series is slightly different.
00:05:53You know, what we do is make it very, very usable.
00:05:55So I think for us, it is a different experience,
00:05:59but I suppose what people forget
00:06:02is that electricity is, you know,
00:06:03is the heart of everything we do.
00:06:05Electrical signals in, you know, in everything we do.
00:06:07And I guess for us, it's about keeping something
00:06:11and giving it a new, entirely new life.
00:06:14And that's what's exciting for us.
00:06:16You know, we have people in our cars
00:06:17that would never dream of buying the gas version.
00:06:21So in other words, they love the shape
00:06:23and the iconic nature of a car,
00:06:25but they've never actually owned an original,
00:06:28which is kind of interesting.
00:06:30Okay, I want to come back to that,
00:06:33that you're taking vehicles that are not the most desirable,
00:06:35because it seems like, well, it seems like every Porsche,
00:06:40Porsche value, used Porsche values
00:06:41have gone through the roof, right?
00:06:43Like astronomical, anything,
00:06:45especially anything air-cooled
00:06:46is going to be highly sought after.
00:06:50But I'm even seeing folks that are getting into,
00:06:54you know, the most unloved,
00:06:55at least in this country has been like the 996, right?
00:06:58Like nobody wants the fried egg headlights,
00:07:00but those are even starting to climb up in value,
00:07:02especially when you talk about like the,
00:07:05the performance end of those, the GT3s,
00:07:06like, you know, obviously the turbos.
00:07:11I'm actually quite surprised,
00:07:12because 964s are quite hard to find here.
00:07:15I mean, is this, is your, is your client base US mostly,
00:07:21or is it in the UK or?
00:07:22Yeah, so I would say 70% of our clients are US.
00:07:25So we have, in fact, yeah, North America generally.
00:07:28So we have, we just delivered our first Canadian client car
00:07:32actually up in Vancouver.
00:07:33So she's a tech entrepreneur.
00:07:35We've got car, a car client in Washington state,
00:07:39NorCal, Southern California,
00:07:42Palm Beach, Florida, the Hamptons, Nantucket.
00:07:45So they kind of, you know,
00:07:47they're where you might expect really.
00:07:49The price point for our cars,
00:07:50because of the levels we go to is, is not inexpensive.
00:07:54You know, we're fairly clear about that.
00:07:57And I think with the Porsche,
00:07:58it's probably the most difficult for people to understand
00:08:01why you might do that.
00:08:02But again, starting with the Tiptronic, you know,
00:08:04which is not the, you know, the best of all 964s,
00:08:09but I agree with you.
00:08:11It's really interesting.
00:08:11We have some younger clients talking to us
00:08:14about doing the likes of a 996, which is, you know,
00:08:17I had a C4S back in the day, which I absolutely loved.
00:08:21As you said, the, you know, the fried eggs are not,
00:08:24you know, necessarily the most beautiful to some people,
00:08:27but a guy was talking to, you know,
00:08:29his bedroom wall car actually was the 964 turbo,
00:08:34996, should I say turbo?
00:08:37And he, you know, that's what he wants.
00:08:38So it's kind of an interesting, interesting play.
00:08:41Yeah.
00:08:42What, okay, if we're focusing on a 964 with a Tiptronic,
00:08:47what about the folks who say,
00:08:48well, just put a manual in it then.
00:08:50Yeah.
00:08:51Like, preserve it that way.
00:08:52Like, what are you doing?
00:08:52Like, why take out?
00:08:53Isn't the characteristics of the powertrain,
00:08:57even on a base 964 is pretty good, right?
00:09:00Oh, it is, absolutely.
00:09:01And it's a great engine, right?
00:09:01And, you know, I think everything we do
00:09:03is technically reversible.
00:09:05So we kind of have that in the background to say,
00:09:07look, if things change, if by some magic,
00:09:10there's a magic fuel that not just is synthetic and,
00:09:13you know, but is not emitting anything, you know,
00:09:16which there isn't right now, as we know,
00:09:19you know, our clients,
00:09:20they tend to be people who are very climate aware.
00:09:24They tend to be tech generally.
00:09:27So they tend to be people,
00:09:28and we've got a Bay Area client, Matt Rogers,
00:09:31who's the founder of, co-founder of Google Nest.
00:09:34You know, he openly said, you know, he loves cars.
00:09:37He would never drive a gas car again, but he loves cars.
00:09:40So, you know, what do you do in that scenario?
00:09:42So I think it's horses for courses.
00:09:43We're doing very low numbers.
00:09:45You know, we're not gonna take away,
00:09:48you know, all of these cars.
00:09:49And I think, you know, you're right.
00:09:52It's a very kind of, it's a great engine,
00:09:54but I think, again, we can create something from that
00:09:57that is very usable.
00:09:58Most, a lot of our cars, people are using daily, you know,
00:10:01and that isn't the norm, actually,
00:10:03in that generation of car, and really enjoying them.
00:10:06So yeah, it's not for everybody.
00:10:07But what I would say is that if we wanna keep
00:10:09some of these beautiful shapes, you know,
00:10:11and designs on the road into the future, you know,
00:10:15and in some countries that's more prevalent than others.
00:10:17You know, if you look at parts of Europe,
00:10:19certainly into Norway, as you know,
00:10:20they're kind of, you know, it's pretty much 100% EV
00:10:23in terms of new vehicles.
00:10:26And that just socially aware individual
00:10:28that wants to drive something that's really cool,
00:10:30but no longer emitting.
00:10:31So it's a slightly different, you know,
00:10:34I think most of our clients
00:10:35are not your traditional car guy or girl.
00:10:38They just happen to love cars,
00:10:40and now they want something that's, you know,
00:10:41that's zero emissions and cool, I guess.
00:10:43Okay.
00:10:44Well, I think probably some who are watching are like,
00:10:47well, get to the brass tacks here.
00:10:49What are we talking about?
00:10:51What are the specs?
00:10:52What's the price?
00:10:53And let me just preface this by,
00:10:55probably in the social clip,
00:10:56and maybe if we can throw it on screen,
00:10:59I was driving by when I was parking.
00:11:01I saw that your vehicle, you parked it on the street.
00:11:03Yes, absolutely.
00:11:04So it's the same one I think Johnny drove.
00:11:05That's right.
00:11:06That's all over your website.
00:11:07Yeah.
00:11:08Along with Johnny's quotes, by the way.
00:11:09In fact, I texted him.
00:11:11Plagiarism.
00:11:12Well, I texted him, I said,
00:11:13whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:11:14This is some kind of collusion here.
00:11:16Did you get paid to be all over this website?
00:11:19Like, is this a conflict of interest?
00:11:20He's like, no, I didn't get paid at all.
00:11:22I said, well, you should have.
00:11:23Yeah, exactly.
00:11:24Because Johnny's quotes,
00:11:26and I've picked pictures of him,
00:11:27are all over the Everati.
00:11:29Everati's website is?
00:11:31Yeah, everati.com.
00:11:32Everati.com.
00:11:33Yeah.
00:11:33If you miss looking at Johnny's face for some reason,
00:11:36you can go on and look and see
00:11:37all the wonderful things he said about your vehicle.
00:11:39Yeah.
00:11:40In particular, I think he drove this,
00:11:41what color green is this?
00:11:42It's like an emerald green.
00:11:43It is oak green.
00:11:44So it's the original oak green,
00:11:45not the new oak green
00:11:47that I think some of the new Porsches have.
00:11:49It has bridge of wear, leather, beautiful tan,
00:11:53yeah, green over tan.
00:11:55It's an RSR look.
00:11:56Clearly it's not an RSR.
00:11:57So again, it started as a lowly, narrow body Tiptronic.
00:12:02But the key thing with us is everything's taken back
00:12:04to the frame, to the chassis.
00:12:07That is then treated to make sure it's 100% straight,
00:12:09so selected and the like.
00:12:12And then it's built back up,
00:12:14integrating the EV powertrain whilst it's being backed up.
00:12:16So things like low and high voltage looms,
00:12:20new dials, switch gear, carbon fiber panels.
00:12:24So the front and rear fenders,
00:12:27the hood, the roof.
00:12:30So we have done everything we can to lighten that car
00:12:33as far as possible.
00:12:34And that car is about 40 pounds lighter
00:12:36than a 964 turbo.
00:12:38So-
00:12:39With everything.
00:12:40With everything.
00:12:40As it sits.
00:12:41As it sits there.
00:12:42And that's the kind of key thing for us is our team are used,
00:12:45my team is X McLaren, Zenvo, Rimac, JLR, Bentley,
00:12:51you name it.
00:12:51So very, very high-end engineers.
00:12:53And I guess they're used to doing full vehicle programs.
00:12:56This is a full vehicle program.
00:12:57They're just starting with a beautiful chassis
00:13:00like the 964.
00:13:01So-
00:13:02Does it have roof wheels on it?
00:13:03Is that what-
00:13:04No, these are HREs, but they look very,
00:13:06they're definitely roof inspired.
00:13:07Beautiful gold, beautiful gold wheels.
00:13:09This oak green is fantastic.
00:13:11You'll see it.
00:13:11I took some pictures of it.
00:13:12We'll put it up with the story.
00:13:14Power?
00:13:15It's around 500.
00:13:17So it's about 3.7 to 60, which is enough.
00:13:21I think we are looking at a next generation of 911.
00:13:25So moving on from the 964 at some point,
00:13:27and we're using some of our latest tech in that version,
00:13:32which is things like Helix motors
00:13:33that are in the Lotus Evia, they're in the Valkyrie.
00:13:36So we have access to some of the really,
00:13:38really cool tech in the UK.
00:13:40What motors do you have on it?
00:13:41So in this one, it actually utilizes a large drive unit,
00:13:44a Tesla large drive unit with brand new batteries
00:13:47and all the, you know,
00:13:48everything else is kind of refined for that vehicle.
00:13:53Whereas something like our GT40 has twin Helix motors.
00:13:56It's 800 horsepower.
00:13:57So it's kind of a, you know, it's kind of horses for courses.
00:14:00That's a lot of fun.
00:14:01I'll have to bring that next time.
00:14:02And it, battery pack, battery pack is how big?
00:14:0462.
00:14:06Yup.
00:14:07In fact, 63, 62 usable.
00:14:09But it's kind of, it's one of those cars
00:14:11that I think suits the Tesla unit.
00:14:15If you move on to say the 993 and others,
00:14:18and dare I say 993,
00:14:20because I'm guessing that will get some comments as well,
00:14:22but actually it's completely different architecture
00:14:24as you know.
00:14:25So the rear, the rear suspension that, you know,
00:14:28the trailing arms and what have you.
00:14:29So it's a very different setup basically.
00:14:32But, you know, we've got some great people on our team,
00:14:35as I say, and actually just looking at the cars
00:14:37the way we do, again, it's all about weight,
00:14:40weight distribution, making sure that they feel right.
00:14:44Now they might not sound the same,
00:14:46but they have to feel like a Porsche.
00:14:48We'll talk about sound in a second.
00:14:49Where'd you put the, where'd you stash all the batteries?
00:14:52That is on that, on the Porsche, it's front and rear.
00:14:55So it's about two thirds rear, a third in the front.
00:14:59Rear being, no, is there no rear seats?
00:15:01No, rear as in rear engine compartment.
00:15:03Only in the, okay, nothing, nothing under,
00:15:06no space under the car.
00:15:08So we don't take, we don't, so right now we don't take
00:15:11anything away from the original shape,
00:15:14kind of body and chassis of the car.
00:15:16So we don't cut it, we, and that's a big thing for us.
00:15:19Again, we generally want to respect these vehicles.
00:15:22It's like having, I don't know, a brownstone in New York.
00:15:25You don't want to cut it and you want it to be
00:15:28as it should be, but with the latest technology.
00:15:30Okay.
00:15:31So then motor, the large drive unit's fairly compact.
00:15:36Yeah.
00:15:37And you can, so you can put the,
00:15:38essentially the engine bay.
00:15:39Yes, exactly.
00:15:40And then up in the front trunk area.
00:15:43So power electronics, so on the vehicles
00:15:47we're doing right now, we have power electronics.
00:15:48We also have the homes that, is it the Type 1
00:15:52or the lower, slower charger in the front,
00:15:55and then we have the CCS in the rear.
00:15:57Okay.
00:15:59And there's still some frunk area.
00:16:00It's not huge, it's bigger than SF90,
00:16:04but it's kind of, yeah, there's not a great deal there.
00:16:06Small bag.
00:16:08Yeah, we can make one for that, obviously.
00:16:11And then, yeah, the options are around interiors
00:16:15and trimming and what have you.
00:16:17Transmission?
00:16:18Transmission.
00:16:19So again, it's basically a Quaife differential,
00:16:23so limited slip differential in that particular car.
00:16:27And then some of the other things we're doing,
00:16:29we'll talk about in a second around some of the other tech
00:16:31we're looking at, moves the game on again massively.
00:16:34So, but again, my guys are engineers, you know,
00:16:37they're looking at latest tech,
00:16:38they're looking at some really cool,
00:16:41we've just had access to the McLaren
00:16:43silicon carbide inverters for some of our vehicles.
00:16:46And again, we're kind of doing, yeah,
00:16:47moving the game on in some of these areas.
00:16:49But no shifting, single speed.
00:16:51Single speed.
00:16:51And the reason for that is it, you know,
00:16:55I don't know if you've ever driven a swap,
00:16:57which is manual, but people will either leave it
00:17:00in second or fourth.
00:17:02There's no real value to it.
00:17:03It's a point of potential failure.
00:17:06It's weight that you don't need.
00:17:07You know, it is.
00:17:08So yeah, it's very much, it's point and go,
00:17:11point and square as it were.
00:17:12Okay.
00:17:13Yeah.
00:17:14All right.
00:17:15More rage inducing potential there.
00:17:17Absolutely.
00:17:17Bring it, you know, we'll keep talking about it.
00:17:21Range and charge time?
00:17:22Yeah.
00:17:23So range on the current Porsche is around 200.
00:17:27You know, we've got in the UK,
00:17:29we've got over 200 on a good day, 220.
00:17:33But-
00:17:34220 miles on a 62 kilowatt hour battery.
00:17:36Yeah.
00:17:37Okay.
00:17:38But what I would say is it's so dependent,
00:17:39as you know, on tires, tire diameter,
00:17:41but also, yeah, and we've got some pretty big,
00:17:44yeah, big rubber on that particular car.
00:17:47So yeah, but it's, what I would say is
00:17:50we've got clients that use them as daily.
00:17:51So that might be in San Francisco,
00:17:53drive out to, you know, Bay Area and back,
00:17:56make maybe the odd square at the weekend.
00:17:59So it's kind of a, it's more of an A2A car, I would say.
00:18:04You know, we have a lady in London
00:18:05who uses her Land Rover series every single day
00:18:08to drop her kids at school.
00:18:10You know, she's the lady with the cool Land Rover.
00:18:13Yeah.
00:18:13And are those getting around the same range?
00:18:16They are getting less range.
00:18:17So the original Land Rover series only did about 155 miles,
00:18:22would you believe, to a tank.
00:18:24We get about 150, you know, similar, similar feel to it.
00:18:28And this is a, when you say series, series one?
00:18:30Series 2A.
00:18:31Series 2A.
00:18:32Yeah, 2A and 3 have been the most popular.
00:18:36We are actually building one for a client right now
00:18:38who Hampton's based, New York Hampton's based,
00:18:43but I was test driving them on our facility last week.
00:18:46So we have a, our facility is perfect.
00:18:49It's an ex-US Air Force base in Oxfordshire.
00:18:53So we've got track, we've got off-road,
00:18:54we've got everything if anyone wants to come and see us.
00:18:58But yeah, so the series is so refined
00:19:00and that's what I love about these things.
00:19:02We're not just swapping them,
00:19:04we're making them just enjoyable to drive.
00:19:06And that's, yeah.
00:19:08We'll come back to that.
00:19:08Cause I'm fast, I'm a big Land,
00:19:11I'm a big Land Cruiser guy,
00:19:12but I love the iconic square body four by fours.
00:19:18So about 200 to 220 miles of range
00:19:20for the 964 charged speed.
00:19:24So I can't remember the exact charge speed,
00:19:26but we certainly in normal use on a pretty fast charger,
00:19:31you can pretty much get 20% from 20%
00:19:34for about 20 minutes, something like that.
00:19:36So very usable.
00:19:37Yeah.
00:19:38And yeah, 200 to 220 is fine if you're, I mean,
00:19:40you're not gonna like be road tripping these cars anyways.
00:19:43This is as a daily driver, that's totally fine.
00:19:45And most of your clients probably have a home charger,
00:19:47so no big deal either.
00:19:49Okay, drum roll, how much?
00:19:51450, 450 for a build.
00:19:56Exactly, it's value.
00:19:59But I think the key thing there is it's full carbon body.
00:20:01So we, I was with, I'm sure you know Clive at Aria.
00:20:05So Clive builds our cars.
00:20:08As you know, they built the first
00:20:09X number of Singer vehicles.
00:20:11So we very much about, again, high quality builds.
00:20:16These are all built in Irvine.
00:20:20Clive does everything.
00:20:21He originally was doing pro drive when it came to the US.
00:20:24He used to sell WRC cars, like insane.
00:20:27And since then, like I keep,
00:20:29he recently his name came up with something else.
00:20:31I think, is it Tello?
00:20:33Yes, Tello, that's right.
00:20:34He's building their cars as well.
00:20:35Okay, Clive.
00:20:36We have to get Clive on apparently.
00:20:37So Clive.
00:20:38We do, we do.
00:20:39In fact, I'm seeing Simon actually next week
00:20:40as well, Simon Sprawl.
00:20:41Yeah, so it's, you know what?
00:20:43Yes, I know all the cool Brits apparently.
00:20:46Absolutely.
00:20:48Okay, so 450 puts you in the realm of Gunther Werks
00:20:53and Singer, what would you say from a Porsche?
00:20:56And do you like the word Restomata?
00:20:58Do you know, I don't mind it at all.
00:20:59Electromod, Restomod, you know, I think so.
00:21:02So Singer is.
00:21:03Actually, Singer is probably a little bit.
00:21:04Yeah, a lot higher.
00:21:05Yeah, yeah, I mean, what a great business.
00:21:08So yeah, I mean, I.
00:21:09Song's gonna get sued.
00:21:10Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
00:21:12So I think, you know, they are both quite substantially
00:21:16higher actually than us.
00:21:18But it's, you know, again, it's, you know,
00:21:19they started I think 250-ish, 10, 12 years ago, whatever.
00:21:24And clearly they've moved up from there.
00:21:27The thing with us, I guess, is we're not just Porsche.
00:21:29And I think that's the kind of the culture
00:21:30that we're trying to address is that we love Porsches.
00:21:34I've had many, many Porsches over the years.
00:21:38But again, it's kind of, you know, if we were just Porsche,
00:21:41you know, there's a big evolution to do that.
00:21:43But I think we're building a car,
00:21:44let's say for a Pagoda for somebody's summer house
00:21:47and a Porsche, let's say for another part of their life.
00:21:50So.
00:21:51The other summer house.
00:21:51One of the other summer houses.
00:21:53And the Land Rover for their winter.
00:21:55Yeah.
00:21:56Retreat.
00:21:56Yeah.
00:21:57Yeah.
00:21:58All right.
00:21:59All right.
00:22:00That's not, that's, I know people listening are like,
00:22:02what are you talking about?
00:22:03It's not eye-watering actually,
00:22:04when you talk about the Gunther Works and the Singers.
00:22:06And those are, I mean, the engines they're doing,
00:22:09those are like gems and the whole thing.
00:22:12If you wanna keep the internal combustion route.
00:22:15Let me, let me ask you the,
00:22:18so we have the price, we have the power.
00:22:22I got a lot we can talk to about Porsche.
00:22:25Oh, where do you source the vehicle?
00:22:27Does the owner, does that price include
00:22:29sourcing the vehicle?
00:22:30Does the owner have to come with it or how does it work?
00:22:32Owner has to come with it.
00:22:33So generally speaking, they won't have one to be honest.
00:22:36So we will help them source.
00:22:37So they will buy the donor, the chassis directly.
00:22:43And we have supply chain,
00:22:45pretty much the same as Singer actually.
00:22:47And so yeah, we'll just help them identify that donor.
00:22:53The great, the weird thing for us as well is,
00:22:57you know, historically there's always been a thing about,
00:22:58is it a originally US car?
00:23:01You know, and that matters on certain cars.
00:23:03But I think given what we're then changing it into,
00:23:07you know, there's the opportunity for example,
00:23:09for Japanese imports or various others
00:23:10where it's less of a, I guess,
00:23:12heritage around where it started its life.
00:23:15Because again, we're completely rebuilding it
00:23:17and turning it into something slightly different.
00:23:20So yeah, but it doesn't include the donor.
00:23:23Oh, it does include?
00:23:23It doesn't include the donor.
00:23:24Oh, it does not.
00:23:25Okay, so roughly, what is that?
00:23:27How much are you getting a nice sports car?
00:23:27Right, so we just bizarrely,
00:23:29we just found one for a client.
00:23:31I think that was about 75.
00:23:35So, you know, they've, I mean, they,
00:23:37I think again, when Singer started out,
00:23:38they were in their 20s, you know,
00:23:40and they've, funny old thing, gone up over the years.
00:23:44But you can pick them up actually in Europe
00:23:46and indeed in Japan for less.
00:23:48You just gotta live with the, you know,
00:23:50the fact that it's gonna be on a boat for a bit.
00:23:53And these are, what are your,
00:23:56what would you say are your qualifications for buying one?
00:24:01Is that like, that's gotta,
00:24:02like, do you care about mileage?
00:24:04It's gotta be rust free or no,
00:24:05because you're gonna take panels off?
00:24:07Yeah, typically, so we,
00:24:10given the fact that we work with people
00:24:12that have worked with Singer before,
00:24:14they've got a great history
00:24:16and they know what they're looking for.
00:24:17So generally speaking, we'll rely on that kind of company
00:24:20to help source.
00:24:23Interestingly, Japan, as you may know,
00:24:25you know, the quality of the, you know, the cars,
00:24:28but also the information on the vehicles is extremely high.
00:24:33So generally speaking, that's the route.
00:24:35You know, it's more, it's difficult actually in the UK,
00:24:37because generally speaking, you know,
00:24:39our climate is not kind of-
00:24:41The weather is-
00:24:42The weather is awful.
00:24:44And it's why I'm here for a few weeks now.
00:24:46But, you know, so it's much easier here in many ways
00:24:50than it might be somewhere else.
00:24:52Okay, and then, so let's say I'm one of your tech,
00:24:56your tech exec up in Northern California.
00:24:58When I take delivery,
00:25:02is it smog legal?
00:25:04You guys go through the whole thing?
00:25:06Like there's no-
00:25:06Go through CARB, yeah.
00:25:08The CARB was a gold sticker or whatever?
00:25:09Something like that, yeah.
00:25:10And so, yeah, so that's all been done.
00:25:13And then, yeah, that's just on,
00:25:15it's registered, so it's still registered as a,
00:25:17say 91, 964, but it's obviously now,
00:25:20you know, zero emissions EV as the powertrain.
00:25:23Okay, and then do you ship with a, like a home charger?
00:25:26Like you give them a level two charger?
00:25:27So it varies on the client.
00:25:29Yeah, a lot of our clients,
00:25:30so we just actually built one for a client in Santa Monica.
00:25:32So he's had a brand new, beautiful home built.
00:25:35So he had that installed at the time.
00:25:37It varies, you know, I personally at home,
00:25:40I drive a Taycan as an example.
00:25:42Luckily I drive, you know,
00:25:43something that is, I can charge from home.
00:25:45So it really depends on the client.
00:25:48Most of our clients have home chargers either,
00:25:51or either already had one or now have them,
00:25:53you know, as a result.
00:25:53And then are you, you know,
00:25:55the whole OEM side is moving towards NACS,
00:25:58Tesla supercharger, are you guys gonna move as well?
00:26:01I think, yeah, we've been looking at it.
00:26:02You know, the standard is, I'm sure you know,
00:26:04it was only really set late last year.
00:26:06So we didn't move before that.
00:26:08But I think on a lot of our cars, you know,
00:26:10really it helps on some of them as well
00:26:12that have a smaller gas fuel tank,
00:26:15you know, kind of aperture than a, let's say a CCS.
00:26:20So for example, on our Mercedes Pagoda that we do,
00:26:23you know, I believe we can fit an NACS in the rear,
00:26:26whereas actually CCS we have to do in,
00:26:28you know, in the kind of the trunk area.
00:26:31Okay.
00:26:32It's more elegant too.
00:26:33It is.
00:26:34It looks nice.
00:26:35Does that, as a small volume manufacturer,
00:26:37you still have to work directly with Tesla
00:26:39to get into their network?
00:26:41So to a point, yes.
00:26:43And look, we've got partners in the UK
00:26:46that have done some of this already.
00:26:48And what I would say is, you know,
00:26:51most of our cars don't use a Tesla power unit.
00:26:54So most of them use the Helix motor,
00:26:55which as I say, is in the Avaya.
00:26:59So that, to be frank,
00:27:01is probably the most suitable motor for what we do
00:27:05because it's very, very small and power dense.
00:27:06You know, in a package that,
00:27:08I'm going to use kilos rather than pounds and I apologize,
00:27:10but you know, 30 kilos, very small form factor,
00:27:14up to 500 horsepower.
00:27:17So that's kind of the motor, which again,
00:27:19you don't need in say a Pagoda,
00:27:21but the point is it's very power dense.
00:27:23So we can tune that motor to be just really, really smooth
00:27:27and power through the rev range as well,
00:27:29which isn't always the case with an EV motor,
00:27:32as I'm sure you know.
00:27:32So that's the kind of things that we're doing
00:27:34to kind of get the best driving experience we possibly can.
00:27:38Okay, let's just get into it.
00:27:39Because I'm a Porsche guy, I will now disclose.
00:27:42I have a 1987 911 Turbo.
00:27:44Lovely.
00:27:46It's got about 60,000 miles on it.
00:27:47I never drive it.
00:27:48I wish I had more time to drive it.
00:27:49I have a small child.
00:27:51And this is again,
00:27:52also another rage inducing comment I'll make.
00:27:56I don't love aspects of driving it.
00:28:00It's got a really long throw.
00:28:01It's got the four speed and it's just a super long throw,
00:28:06pretty notchy.
00:28:08I love the suspension.
00:28:09I love the lack of power steering on it.
00:28:12So you feel every inch of the road.
00:28:16It makes a pretty good sound,
00:28:18but it's quite loud.
00:28:19It is like that kind of ear filling roar.
00:28:24I know you don't do,
00:28:25well, I don't know.
00:28:26Have you ever, you've never done a 930 or that?
00:28:29So we've done a G series.
00:28:31Yep, so effectively.
00:28:32Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:33So we do, so our Porsche offering right now is,
00:28:36starts with G series.
00:28:38We've done kind of what you might call an ST.
00:28:40So the original ST look.
00:28:43So we can do the back day ST kind of look on G body.
00:28:47We put slightly less power in that
00:28:48because it's not quite set up to do,
00:28:52the chassis is not really ready as an I64.
00:28:56And then we start with I64.
00:28:57We do narrow body and the wide body version,
00:29:01but we've done coupes, we've done cabs, we've done Targas.
00:29:06So it really depends on the use case,
00:29:07but yeah, G series is actually a very good car for that.
00:29:11Okay, so you are obviously a Porsche enthusiast.
00:29:14I am.
00:29:16Would you talk me out of doing an Everatti conversion
00:29:20or would you say, all right, you should totally do it.
00:29:22With your specific car?
00:29:23Yes.
00:29:24Do you know, I would probably say,
00:29:26let's go buy something that is less special than a turbo
00:29:29and let's do it on that.
00:29:30You know, we had, true story, we had,
00:29:33and this is, you know, hopefully tells you a bit about us.
00:29:36We've turned down somebody doing a very,
00:29:38very special Porsche, a 959.
00:29:42Yes, thank God, all right.
00:29:43Thank God, you know,
00:29:44this is a gentleman in the Middle East
00:29:48who wants about 800 horsepower in a 959.
00:29:51And we said, look, that's not for us.
00:29:54So yeah, there are some cars out there,
00:29:57the Holy Grail things that just, you just don't touch, right?
00:29:59You know, it is, we are moving into a world where,
00:30:03you know, clean energy and EV is inevitable,
00:30:09but I think it's not clearly for everything
00:30:11in the same way as you buy a new home
00:30:13and you can't fit your money in the corner
00:30:15so you cut a corner off it, it's different, right?
00:30:17So, but I think for the kind of enjoyment,
00:30:20you know, there are still horses, you know,
00:30:22people haven't moved entirely away from the,
00:30:23you know, from the horse.
00:30:25So for enjoyment on tracks and other things, you know,
00:30:28there is definitely a place for non-EV
00:30:31and some Holy Grail cars that we would never even,
00:30:34yeah, go near.
00:30:35Okay, that's great.
00:30:35I hadn't thought about that, that you would suggest,
00:30:37you should obviously do it, just don't do it to your car.
00:30:39Exactly, we'll find you one.
00:30:41Get something a little more miles,
00:30:43less important.
00:30:44Yeah, exactly.
00:30:45All right, great.
00:30:48Let's talk a little bit about,
00:30:50well, here's one thought.
00:30:52We had a personal friend of mine who does Moment Motors.
00:30:56These guys are out of Austin, Mark Davis,
00:30:58and they've done a couple of Porsches,
00:31:01but they actually seem to do a lot more Pagodas.
00:31:05And he did mention that we talked about the rage,
00:31:08how the commoners are gonna get after him,
00:31:11and they indeed did.
00:31:13But specifically the Pagoda,
00:31:16it was about, like, people have this romantic idea
00:31:18that because the car looks as gorgeous as it is,
00:31:21that the drive is equally gorgeous.
00:31:23And no, the powertrain on that car is pretty crap.
00:31:25It really is.
00:31:27I still wanna just, before we get off Porsche,
00:31:30I just defend that you believe in your soul
00:31:34that the driving experience afterwards,
00:31:38particularly with that Tiptronic of the cars
00:31:41you started with, it is that much better.
00:31:44Completely.
00:31:45And they're, despite not having,
00:31:48and please address the noise complaint, if you will.
00:31:52So, number one, definitely,
00:31:55I'd never say better because each is to their own,
00:31:58but in terms of the weight's in the right place,
00:32:01the weight distribution is perfect.
00:32:03It's still 60-40 as Porsche intended.
00:32:06The overall weight is lower, right?
00:32:08So, center of gravity is around the same.
00:32:11So again, this is not just chucking some battery.
00:32:15The engineering to get to that point
00:32:17is actually fairly advanced.
00:32:20It's different.
00:32:21And I think, bizarrely, the car outside
00:32:26drives ever so slightly more like a Cayman, actually,
00:32:29than an original 964 because the weight's
00:32:31ever so slightly more inbound as well.
00:32:33So it's not quite as far out of the back wheel.
00:32:37So what I would say is it's different,
00:32:38but it's really enjoyable.
00:32:41Do you like hot sauce on your steak
00:32:44or do you like something completely different?
00:32:46And it's kind of that sort of feel to it.
00:32:48And what I would say is people just tend to love it.
00:32:52And as you say, with something like the Pagoda,
00:32:55just going on to that,
00:32:58it's almost like don't meet your heroes.
00:33:00When you drive a 280 is okay,
00:33:04but 230, it's not actually great.
00:33:07I mean, I had actually one,
00:33:11it was actually a 250, interestingly, in the UK.
00:33:13So when I first decided we were gonna do a Pagoda range,
00:33:18and the reason we do it is my dear uncle,
00:33:21who passed away recently, had one,
00:33:23and I'd always, always loved it.
00:33:25And so I bought one and it was pre-pandemic.
00:33:28And people love them.
00:33:30They just love the shape.
00:33:31They love the design.
00:33:32And my, as was, poor five-year-old son,
00:33:37beginning of the pandemic, beautiful sunny day,
00:33:40I had a Ferrari in the garage,
00:33:41I had a GT3, I had a Taycan.
00:33:45Daddy, can we travel in style today?
00:33:47Can we take the Pagoda?
00:33:48And it's, again, it's kind of, they just are beautiful,
00:33:51but to drive them, especially on a day-to-day basis,
00:33:54would not be something I'd wanna do personally.
00:33:57Okay, all right, fair.
00:33:58Let me, let's talk, we'll stay on Porsche
00:34:05just for one other question.
00:34:08You're obviously a man of taste and distinction,
00:34:11and you're doing these wonderful things
00:34:14and upgrading and adding.
00:34:17Do you improve the value?
00:34:21Do you, is the value of the car,
00:34:23and do you believe that going forward,
00:34:25will these be more or less collectible
00:34:29than a 964?
00:34:30Great question.
00:34:31So I think we've already had a situation
00:34:34where one of our clients moved a car on privately,
00:34:38and actually the new buyer actually paid
00:34:41slightly over what he had paid,
00:34:43so he was very happy with that.
00:34:46I think it's gonna be around partly the brand,
00:34:50making sure we can build a brand
00:34:52that is synonymous with quality, high-end engineering,
00:34:56but also, I would say, upgradability.
00:34:58So when you've spent a fair chunk of change
00:35:02on doing something beautiful,
00:35:05in the same way, I guess, as a Gen 1 of anything,
00:35:12you're worried that that Gen 1 is gonna be obsolete,
00:35:14and therefore gonna reduce in its value.
00:35:18Our thesis is that actually it's the work of art
00:35:22you're buying, the beautiful Porsche,
00:35:23and then we will upgrade the technology over time.
00:35:27So, for example, the very first Porsches we did
00:35:30were 53 kilowatt hour batteries,
00:35:32they're now 62, I have no doubt
00:35:34that that will continue to evolve.
00:35:38And therefore, it's the structure of the home,
00:35:41the structure of the car,
00:35:42the structure of whatever you're buying,
00:35:44you remain the same,
00:35:45but actually then upgrade over time.
00:35:46So I think if we can continue that vein,
00:35:50my view would be, why wouldn't it be just as valuable,
00:35:53if not more valuable over time?
00:35:55Okay.
00:35:56Do you track the values of other restomodded
00:36:01on the market?
00:36:02Like, I don't follow them closely,
00:36:04I'm very curious if Singer's and Guntherwerke cars,
00:36:08I suspect, given the premium they're paid,
00:36:11I don't know, will you,
00:36:13will the owner that sells one lose money?
00:36:15I don't know, do you?
00:36:17They're not, certainly not at the moment,
00:36:19they are, yeah, I think,
00:36:20so we, I was actually out for dinner
00:36:22with a client and friend last night,
00:36:24and he has a turbo study,
00:36:26and yeah, he can definitely get.
00:36:29It's probably the scarcity.
00:36:31Yeah, precisely.
00:36:31Okay, then let me ask you,
00:36:33this is my hot button one,
00:36:35do you have thoughts on RWB cars?
00:36:38I, look, again, horses for courses,
00:36:40you know, they certainly wouldn't work
00:36:43in many restricted areas in London,
00:36:46cause you wouldn't be able to get them through the gap.
00:36:49They're not for me,
00:36:51but again, the great thing about Porsche
00:36:51is it's got such a rich history of people modding them
00:36:55and updating them,
00:36:56and I think that's, again, with us, you know,
00:36:59yes, we're modding it to an EV,
00:37:01but actually, the history of that happening,
00:37:04you know, over time, maybe not with EV,
00:37:06but with other things on Porsche is so, so,
00:37:09it's a culture, right?
00:37:10It's something that people have done forever,
00:37:13and again, it is technically irreversible,
00:37:17but you wouldn't, you genuinely wouldn't,
00:37:19and I think, again-
00:37:20I don't know, cutting the metal is,
00:37:22that's not, that's not quite as reversible.
00:37:24No, no, but we do-
00:37:25Oh, yours is, yes.
00:37:26Exactly, exactly, and I think,
00:37:27but you actually run an RWB,
00:37:29it's, yeah, it's not for me,
00:37:30but, you know, again, each to their own.
00:37:32Okay, yeah, I can't decide whether RWB is,
00:37:36cause, you know, as a Porsche owner,
00:37:37I'm like, do I like that they're taking
00:37:39perfectly good vehicles out of commission,
00:37:42and probably in 10 years time,
00:37:45we'll say, wow, they really just took out a lot of Porsches.
00:37:48Now, my value's higher because of that,
00:37:50but overall, that's not a good thing for your soul,
00:37:54I don't think.
00:37:55I would probably agree with that, yeah.
00:37:57Yeah, I would probably agree with that.
00:38:00Again, tastes change, right?
00:38:01Yeah, horses for courses, I think is the theme of this one.
00:38:04Indeed.
00:38:05Okay, so we talked about the Porsche,
00:38:07we talked about the Pagoda,
00:38:09let's stay on this, on the Land Rovers you're doing.
00:38:14How's the, how does the four-wheel drive system-
00:38:16Oh, sorry, one more question on the Porsche.
00:38:19What are you doing with steering and suspension?
00:38:21So, suspension we use,
00:38:23we offer tractive, fully adjustable dampers,
00:38:25so that works really well.
00:38:28You know, I'll give you an example.
00:38:29So I was driving, I was up at the bridge in the Hamptons
00:38:32late last year, I think it was September, October time,
00:38:35in and around the Hamptons, fairly, you know,
00:38:37fairly cool road, fairly good roads.
00:38:41Stiffened the suspension up, it's, you know, it's great.
00:38:43Driving that then down Fifth Avenue,
00:38:46very soft suspension again,
00:38:48and you get the bobbing sensation of, you know,
00:38:50what you would remember in an early 911.
00:38:54So that's fully adjustable and steering, again,
00:38:57it's really just tightening up everything around the rack
00:39:00and yeah, we do, it depends on the client.
00:39:04You know, there are people that want it to be
00:39:05more track inspired, I guess, and we can do that.
00:39:08We're very flexible on the whole setup of the car
00:39:12and geometry as well, you know, again,
00:39:14because we're not tampering too much with weight
00:39:17and weight distribution, it can be,
00:39:18you can pretty much do whatever you would normally do
00:39:20on a guest car.
00:39:21Okay.
00:39:22Yeah.
00:39:22Did you look at KW suspension?
00:39:24We do, we have looked at KW.
00:39:27Interestingly, we use KW on our Pagoda.
00:39:30Yeah, interestingly.
00:39:30So yeah, so we have a pretty cool bag of tricks,
00:39:36if you like, kit bag.
00:39:38So yeah, it depends on the car, really.
00:39:40Okay, so back to the Land Rover.
00:39:42So how does the four wheel drive system work?
00:39:46So with us, so again, because we're from the UK
00:39:49and in the UK, there's very specific rules
00:39:51around what you can and can't do to a vehicle
00:39:53before it becomes what's called radically altered
00:39:56and that changes its value and its registration.
00:39:59So we're very careful to ensure that, again,
00:40:03we're minimizing what we change on that car.
00:40:05So we use, for example, an LT230 transfer case on that car.
00:40:11So it's still selectable two and four wheel drive,
00:40:15it's still selectable high and low ratio,
00:40:16although you won't need the ratios really.
00:40:20And then, yeah, and then we have a custom transmission
00:40:23into the LT230 and that has a 55 kilowatt hour battery pack.
00:40:31So again, it's very usable.
00:40:33Again, the key thing for us is not over weighting that car.
00:40:35There are people out there putting 75, 80 kilowatt hours
00:40:39in a series, it's not designed for it
00:40:41and actually you're going over GBW.
00:40:43So we're very, very, very careful
00:40:46to ensure the car is still absolutely safe
00:40:49when it comes to weight and those sorts of things.
00:40:51So are you, like the Porsche, lower than the original?
00:40:55Not lower, but we're way within GBW.
00:40:59And again, with that, we do upgrade the brakes,
00:41:02so discs, obviously, and power discs.
00:41:04We power steering,
00:41:06but it's still the original steering box.
00:41:09So it's got a charm, I think it's fair to say.
00:41:14And then we have our own drive modes.
00:41:16Does it have like 15 degree,
00:41:17the 15 degree on center before the wheels turn?
00:41:19Pretty much, yeah, it's not quite.
00:41:21I mean, certainly when you start, I mean, we had a-
00:41:22Oh, sorry, the steering was like this, right?
00:41:24Yeah, yeah, it's big, it's big.
00:41:26But, you know, it's kind of interesting.
00:41:29So I think some of the people we build these cars for,
00:41:32they just love that charm.
00:41:33You know, a bit of a story,
00:41:35I was driving one of our cars through Paris.
00:41:38We did an event at the Palace of Versailles,
00:41:40which is incredible.
00:41:41But driving through Paris on a summer's day,
00:41:44the roof, you know, the canvas roof is rolled up.
00:41:48People just love these things.
00:41:49You stop at lights and people are coming to take photos,
00:41:51and that wouldn't normally happen in some of these cars,
00:41:54but in a Land Rover, for whatever reason.
00:41:56So it's so iconic, but then again,
00:41:58we just like to make it as user-friendly as possible.
00:42:01So again, one of our clients has,
00:42:04so it's three front seats and then two benches in the rear.
00:42:08So technically seven seats.
00:42:10Every seat is heated.
00:42:12She has teak decking.
00:42:13She has lambs wool rug.
00:42:15She has, I guess, 15 grams worth of audio
00:42:18in this Land Rover.
00:42:19So again, it looks from the outside
00:42:21to be a beautiful, restored Land Rover,
00:42:23but it's very, very usable and enjoyable.
00:42:25And does it have a manual locking hubs?
00:42:28If you were to put it in four wheel,
00:42:29you'd put the lever and then go up and turn?
00:42:32Yes.
00:42:32Okay, I had that on my old Hilux.
00:42:34That's very good.
00:42:35No, again, people will probably never use it, right?
00:42:37But it's cool.
00:42:39And I think, again, we're really bringing these cars back.
00:42:45Most of these cars,
00:42:45A, they built many, many, many, many thousands of them.
00:42:50One of our cars we acquired for a client or with a client,
00:42:55bought it on eBay, had plants growing out of it, right?
00:42:58So we really are bringing those cars back from the dead.
00:43:02So yeah, and again, people just love the look at them.
00:43:05Yeah, I love the look of them.
00:43:07And I also, I don't, I actually have never,
00:43:09I've driven one a long time ago.
00:43:13How would you describe the pre-Everatti treatment
00:43:19driving experience of this?
00:43:22Is it, it's, I mean, they're slow.
00:43:25We know they're very, very slow.
00:43:27Yeah.
00:43:29And they're noisy, but is there...
00:43:32So what I would say, so we also do a lot
00:43:37of back-to-back testing.
00:43:38So we might do, so we did this actually last year.
00:43:40We had a Land Rover Series 3 original combustion.
00:43:44We actually had a current Defender,
00:43:46and we had our, one of our Land Rover Series as well.
00:43:49And we got six or eight people to come and try them
00:43:52and mark them just as you would with an OEM testing
00:43:56against different manufacturers.
00:43:59So yeah, the original series, again,
00:44:02I don't know many people that would want to drive that
00:44:05very far.
00:44:07I think official stats are maybe 30, no, sorry,
00:44:1224 seconds to 60.
00:44:16We bring it down to about 13.
00:44:17So again, we could take it way, way lower,
00:44:19but we think it's about safety
00:44:20and what's right for the car.
00:44:24There's still noise, right?
00:44:25Because actually the LT230 is not the quietest thing.
00:44:30So above about 30 miles an hour, you start to hear that,
00:44:34which to some people is quite,
00:44:35they love the fact that it's still making a noise,
00:44:38but it's very smooth, and we have drive mode.
00:44:41So we've got, whether you want more regen, less regen,
00:44:46it can, a good friend of mine has,
00:44:49in fact, he paid quite a lot of money
00:44:51to get a full restoration on a Series 2A, but combustion.
00:44:55And pretty much the minute you drove it,
00:44:57he said, I've done the wrong thing.
00:44:58I should have come to you.
00:44:59Because again, just getting up a small hill
00:45:02in some of these is quite difficult.
00:45:05So of those you surveyed,
00:45:07how many of them preferred the new Defender versus the-
00:45:11A couple did, but we do it
00:45:13on all sorts of different metrics, right?
00:45:15So yes, it's performance.
00:45:16It might be steering feel.
00:45:17It might be, it's light off-road.
00:45:19We don't do full off-road.
00:45:21But I think, overall, it wasn't kind of
00:45:26which one's the winner.
00:45:27It was more about which attributes do they prefer.
00:45:32Clearly, RVV on every level beat the original.
00:45:36There were certain things.
00:45:37I mean, the size, the elbow room.
00:45:39It's little things like that,
00:45:40that if you're a bigger gentleman, lady,
00:45:43are a bit awkward in a Land Rover Series.
00:45:45But yeah, they're charming.
00:45:47They're really charming.
00:45:49They look great, too.
00:45:49And no ding on the Defender, too.
00:45:52That's our former SUV of the year winner.
00:45:53And that thing actually drives surprisingly well.
00:45:55It really does.
00:45:56It drives a lot smaller than it looks.
00:45:58And solid, solid vehicle.
00:46:01Okay, I forgot to ask you one other question on the Porsche.
00:46:04Is there any noise?
00:46:06Is there any, there's wind noise?
00:46:07Is there any kind of gear noise?
00:46:09Yeah, so you do hear, and again,
00:46:12depending on how much sound deadening you wish to have.
00:46:14So we can, again, everything is spec-able, right?
00:46:17So the car that Johnny drove that's outside
00:46:21has a lot less sound deadening.
00:46:23So you can hear the motor spooling up.
00:46:25You can hear quite a lot of road noise, to be honest.
00:46:29Whereas you've got a UK client,
00:46:30he drives that, again, most days.
00:46:32But it's far more kind of a lux spec, if that makes sense.
00:46:37So it hasn't got the roll cage and other bits and pieces.
00:46:40We do offer a sound package, which,
00:46:43so this is kind of an interesting one.
00:46:45So as I'm sure you know, in the combustion world,
00:46:48there are cars that might have a sport button.
00:46:51It's actually nothing to do with the engine sound.
00:46:53It's entirely synthetic.
00:46:56We can offer that same package.
00:46:59And interestingly, on our,
00:47:01you may have seen on our website,
00:47:02we've got a Gulf Delivery demo car
00:47:06that has a sound package.
00:47:07And it's actually almost like a pancake-shaped
00:47:13speaker system that actually attaches direct to the chassis.
00:47:17So when it's on, it actually does reverberate.
00:47:19It feels kind of like an engine.
00:47:23But would you believe,
00:47:24no client yet has chosen to have the sound.
00:47:27What sound is it?
00:47:28Is it amplifying the sounds of the vehicle?
00:47:31It's not playing a prerecorded.
00:47:32It's basically in the same way as,
00:47:34so again, this is the crazy thing.
00:47:36So we do some work with Superformance for the GT40.
00:47:41And when we first started that program,
00:47:43the guys at Superformance in the UK,
00:47:44or their representative, they know their cars, right?
00:47:47They really knew, and they know sounds.
00:47:49And the older gentleman that runs that business
00:47:53said he was just one day under the hood of a car,
00:47:58and he heard something coming down,
00:47:59and he swore it was a big, big, big V8.
00:48:02Turned up, and it was a diesel transit van
00:48:05that had this system on it, right?
00:48:07So you can program any sound, but it's speed-dependent.
00:48:11It's kind of, so it's funny,
00:48:13my wife's just taking delivery of a G580 EV,
00:48:16so the G-Wagon, again, it's got the G-Raw.
00:48:20So it's a similar process to that, quite frankly.
00:48:23But on my Taycan, I leave the sound off 99% of the time,
00:48:26anyway.
00:48:28Speaking of, yeah, rage-inducing.
00:48:29I think the listeners have calmed down,
00:48:31because you said nobody has taken you up on it,
00:48:33but it is available.
00:48:35It is.
00:48:35Okay, we're getting close on time here,
00:48:38but Johnny wanted me to ask you specifically
00:48:41to talk about some, perhaps some Lamborghinis
00:48:44you're working on, some LM02s, is that correct?
00:48:47Yeah, so we have a Middle Eastern client
00:48:50who has asked us to do, initially, the engineering study,
00:48:55and to give you an idea.
00:48:56So we don't do conversions, we do the whole vehicle.
00:48:59So we have, right now, an LM002 in our shop.
00:49:04To give you an example, the work that we go to,
00:49:06we've got, we've scanned that car,
00:49:08we've got 5.2 billion data points on that car,
00:49:11so we've got full 3D model,
00:49:13both inside, outside, and transmission tunnel.
00:49:16And we are, right now, looking at doing
00:49:18maybe up to five of these, with full carbon body,
00:49:23with 800-ish horsepower,
00:49:27and, yeah, incredible statement EV, essentially.
00:49:31If you're young, and you don't know what we're talking about,
00:49:33this is not a Lamborghini, this is not like your wedge,
00:49:36this is not the supercar V12-like power,
00:49:39this is a V12, but it's, this is, just Google it,
00:49:41this is the, this is Lamborghini's Jeep.
00:49:43This was originally designed as a military vehicle.
00:49:45It was supposed to be a 50-caliber machine gun in the back.
00:49:48Which can be arranged.
00:49:49Yes, very, very cool-looking, but,
00:49:53so, okay, if you're doing five, he owns all five?
00:49:55No, no, no.
00:49:56Okay, where do you source five of these?
00:49:58Do you know, I was in,
00:49:59so I was in Dubai in early January,
00:50:02and I just chatted to a guy, he's a car guy,
00:50:04he happens to work for Emirates,
00:50:05so he's a good friend of mine.
00:50:06He said, oh, yeah, what are you doing
00:50:08on that particular car?
00:50:09And I said, well, look,
00:50:10originally we were gonna do this one-off,
00:50:13but we may just do five as a limited edition.
00:50:15He said, oh, I was just chatting to a car guy
00:50:17I know in Saudi Arabia, he's got two.
00:50:19He just happens to have two.
00:50:21He's a big car guy, right?
00:50:22So, so they are around,
00:50:24but they didn't make too many of them,
00:50:25as I'm sure you know.
00:50:25I think they made 260 of them in total.
00:50:29But, again, I mean, we took the gearbox,
00:50:32we took the V12, we've taken a well over a ton
00:50:36of combustion engine stuff out of this thing.
00:50:39So that kind of gives us a great opportunity
00:50:41for some pretty cool EV tech as well.
00:50:43How big a battery would you put in something like this?
00:50:45You go over 100 kilowatts.
00:50:47Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it would.
00:50:48I think it's about 120, something like that.
00:50:51Yeah, just over 100, one to 120, something like that.
00:50:55The way we were looking at the engineering
00:50:57is twin helix motor setup with an epicyclic gearbox,
00:51:02McLaren inverters, high-end battery.
00:51:04So, for example, on a GT40, we've got VDA batteries,
00:51:0910 or 12C discharge.
00:51:11So very, very, very high-end 800-volt architecture.
00:51:14And you can, in a Lamborghini,
00:51:16you can put the batteries below the front,
00:51:18like in between the frame rails or in the tunnel?
00:51:22You could.
00:51:22So what we tend to do is put weight where it was.
00:51:25So, yes, the transmission tunnel, obviously under the hood.
00:51:29So it really depends on the vehicle itself.
00:51:33Key thing, I guess, is, again, you don't wanna take away,
00:51:37I mean, it's big.
00:51:40Weirdly, it's not big by some,
00:51:42clearly US SUV standards, but it's a pretty iconic car.
00:51:45And this is the one that has everything
00:51:49kind of stuffed inside to improve the breakover
00:51:52and the ground clearance, right?
00:51:53There's not a lot.
00:51:54No, no, no, exactly.
00:51:55Driveshafts hanging down.
00:51:56And you may have seen the tires on this thing,
00:51:59I think like seven, eight grand a pop.
00:52:00They were designed to be driven on sand, basically.
00:52:04So they've got like a big rim and stuff.
00:52:06Oh, and I think automatic inflation,
00:52:10remote inflation.
00:52:11I think you can have that, exactly, yeah.
00:52:12So is this vehicle being built?
00:52:14We have it right now.
00:52:15He's taking his decisions on final spec.
00:52:17But, you know, and again, we've had interest now
00:52:19from two or three other individuals
00:52:21who may or may not wanna do one.
00:52:22So it was gonna be a one-off,
00:52:24but I think now we will look at potentially,
00:52:26as I say, five vehicles.
00:52:28And I think more than anything, again,
00:52:30there aren't that many around.
00:52:31It will be our kind of new halo kind of product,
00:52:34as you can imagine.
00:52:35And then, you know, a lot of the other stuff
00:52:36that we're doing is B2B.
00:52:37So we're building powertrains for electric supercars
00:52:40and various other activities as well.
00:52:42So a lot of the learnings we're using
00:52:45from things like the GT40 and the likes of the LM
00:52:48are then being kind of transferred across as well.
00:52:54Let's say that he says, yep, I love it, let's go.
00:52:57How long from start of the program to delivery do you think?
00:53:00It's probably around an 18-month program.
00:53:03So, you know, we, not just around just designing
00:53:07and kind of sourcing the correct components.
00:53:11Again, it's about tuning.
00:53:12Yeah, it's all about what is the right ramp rates
00:53:16and torque curve on that particular vehicle
00:53:19to get it performing as it should.
00:53:22And we've got maps, we've done all the calcs
00:53:24on what the original torque curve looks like
00:53:28in each gear and the like.
00:53:29So again, it's kind of, it's a lot of fun doing that.
00:53:31And when you show a client the level of detail
00:53:34that you go to, it's kind of, yes,
00:53:35it's a great process, put it that way.
00:53:37So you're saying this could be on the lawn
00:53:40at the Quail in 2026?
00:53:41Something like that.
00:53:42Perhaps?
00:53:43Yeah, something like that.
00:53:44We've got a couple of other projects we're working on
00:53:45that could also be there.
00:53:47Anything else you want to talk about?
00:53:49So the big thing for us now is using,
00:53:52so our big thing is learning, I guess,
00:53:55all the things we've learned
00:53:56in doing the different models we do.
00:53:59And then taking all of that experience
00:54:02and working through, okay,
00:54:03how do we make that available to third parties?
00:54:04So we're working on right now,
00:54:06I think, three new EV supercar,
00:54:10sports and supercar programs,
00:54:11where they might want a fully integrated carbon tub
00:54:16with a high-end powertrain.
00:54:19Yeah, when you consider the likes of the motors we're using
00:54:22are using in EV hypercars,
00:54:24if you look at the McLaren inverters,
00:54:26it's used in racing principally.
00:54:30So we're pretty unique insofar as we have
00:54:32a very, very strong supply chain
00:54:36of some of the best kit in the world,
00:54:38but also we've already pre-integrated it with our software.
00:54:42And then last but not least,
00:54:43we're now working on with a third party
00:54:45that is developing torque vectoring
00:54:49and traction control with us as well.
00:54:50So again, we can do a pretty advanced powertrain
00:54:55at, I would say, maybe a fifth or less
00:55:01of the development time of doing this from scratch.
00:55:03So I think that's our future, really.
00:55:05So continue to do the halo cars,
00:55:08because that builds the brand
00:55:09and people love them, thankfully.
00:55:12But it's then about using that experience and knowledge
00:55:15and driving that into some of these really cool cars
00:55:18that are being developed by all sorts of companies,
00:55:21the low volume manufacturers, the other brands.
00:55:25Who you cannot disclose.
00:55:26Not right now, not right now.
00:55:28Would you ever, would Everati ever make their own?
00:55:31Like new production?
00:55:33We've been asked to do that
00:55:35by one of our investors, actually, but not today.
00:55:39I think for us, we wanna be the very, very best
00:55:44that we can in terms of the end-to-end powertrain.
00:55:47Never say never.
00:55:48And actually our supply chain includes
00:55:51people like the guys at Aria.
00:55:53You may know Dr. Andy Palmer's on our advisory board.
00:55:56We've got some great names associated with the business.
00:56:01And actually, interestingly, if it was
00:56:05a carbon fiber EV sports car,
00:56:07we've probably got 80% plus of the story there already.
00:56:11But budget and then getting that homologated,
00:56:13I'm sorry, the big thing is then gonna be
00:56:15about homologation and everything that goes with it.
00:56:18Setting up the sales channel, distribution,
00:56:21all that stuff, okay.
00:56:22Completely.
00:56:24Fascinating.
00:56:26Would you, are you gonna do any Ferraris?
00:56:31As a, look, I've owned-
00:56:33360 Modenas are, you know, they're real cheap.
00:56:36Do you know what?
00:56:37I, again, never say never.
00:56:38I think I, again, have been fortunate enough
00:56:41to own a few Ferraris in my time.
00:56:45I think there are Ferraris that are,
00:56:49I'm gonna say holy grail, less holy grail than others.
00:56:53But look, so we certainly have none on our radar right now,
00:56:55put it that way.
00:56:57But it's very doable, and again,
00:56:58we need the powertrain we developed for our GT40,
00:57:01you know, is kind of perfect for that environment.
00:57:04I'm very curious about the GT40,
00:57:05but because I love them, I love the look, love the shape.
00:57:08But I just think if we, since we're talking about
00:57:10how annoyed people are gonna be about,
00:57:12if you think people are gonna be enraged about a 964,
00:57:18just swap out one of the Ferrari engines under glass.
00:57:23Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
00:57:26I mean, and you know, the great thing is
00:57:28that kind of the buyers for these cars
00:57:31are changing as well, right?
00:57:33So you've got certainly a younger demographic
00:57:36getting into maybe some of these earlier,
00:57:37or yeah, I say not too early, but as you say,
00:57:40the 360s, you know, the various different iterations.
00:57:44My first Ferrari, funny enough, was a 458 Spyder,
00:57:46which I absolutely adored.
00:57:49So not quite, not quite yet, is what I would say.
00:57:52But the GT40, I mean, that's 800 horsepower,
00:57:55slightly lighter than the original
00:57:57better weight distribution.
00:57:58It's from Superformance, you work there?
00:57:59Superformance, exactly.
00:58:00So we use it, we don't use an original,
00:58:02funny old thing, chassis on that one.
00:58:05But they're so available, like.
00:58:06They really are, yeah, they really are.
00:58:08They're everywhere.
00:58:10But yeah, it's, we love what we do,
00:58:12and we love the cars, you know, again,
00:58:14I think we're not doing them to ruin them in any way.
00:58:18We want them to be enjoyed.
00:58:19And by a new generation, you know,
00:58:21just saying about the Pagoda, you know,
00:58:23a client's there, and we had some amazing reviews
00:58:27by Rob Report and by the Times in the UK,
00:58:31saying that it is genuinely better.
00:58:34And when we hear that and read that,
00:58:36you can imagine how that's a really positive thing
00:58:39for all of our team, really.
00:58:41So yeah, that's what's enjoyable.
00:58:42All right, well, last question I have,
00:58:44because I was, and I asked you about Ferrari,
00:58:46because I noticed your logo has a little shades of Ferrari.
00:58:48What does Everati mean?
00:58:49Yeah, ever, ever, keeping cool cars on the road
00:58:53for, let's say, ever, as long as possible.
00:58:55Rati is the goddess of love, passion, and desire,
00:58:59which is what we all have for our cars.
00:59:01So yeah, and yeah, it's got kind of,
00:59:05you know, it's Maserati, Ferrari, it's kind of, yeah.
00:59:08We wanted something that sounded European,
00:59:09put it that way, although.
00:59:11Did you come up with that?
00:59:13We did, I did, yeah.
00:59:14I may have had a couple of glasses of wine.
00:59:17There may have been other names,
00:59:18and then get on GoDaddy and try and,
00:59:21is the domain available?
00:59:22Exactly, I mean, this is a great name,
00:59:23because I know this is a huge problem with OEMs.
00:59:26It's like, they gotta come up with a new model name,
00:59:27and like, they're all taken,
00:59:29and then they gotta think globally,
00:59:30and that's why you end up with all these.
00:59:31It's so hard.
00:59:32Yeah, you come up with names that are just numbered,
00:59:34alphabet soup.
00:59:35So it's great that your name has a good.
00:59:37Has a meaning. Has a meaning.
00:59:38Yeah, and we didn't necessarily know the meaning
00:59:40until we called it that, by the way.
00:59:42The other one on names is interesting.
00:59:44So we were, up until whenever it was,
00:59:46called Ionic Cars, with a C.
00:59:49And we got the domain, we got the,
00:59:52we went through the UK kind of checks on names,
00:59:57and everything else.
00:59:58We, yeah, we got the sort of trademark,
01:00:01and everything was done.
01:00:03I never got a letter from Hyundai.
01:00:05Then a tiny Korean car company, very small,
01:00:08no one's ever heard of, with no lawyers at all,
01:00:10but it was just hilarious,
01:00:11because they hadn't spotted this,
01:00:12and we were using it for nearly two years,
01:00:14and then we very politely said,
01:00:16yes, of course you can, we'll use something else.
01:00:19And I'm glad they did, actually,
01:00:20because I like what we're now called.
01:00:22Great.
01:00:23Well, Justin Lunny, founder and CEO of Everati.
01:00:26You can find them on everati.com,
01:00:28and there's a number, all the socials.
01:00:31There is Everati on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook.
01:00:36I even have their What Three Words address in front of me.
01:00:38Burying proved motion, which I've never actually done,
01:00:41but apparently it works in ways.
01:00:42It does.
01:00:43Everati, check them out if you have an open mind,
01:00:47and are interested in improving the driving experience
01:00:52of your legendary sports car,
01:00:56and that's either road car or off-roader.
01:00:58Perhaps Justin and his team have something for you.
01:01:01Amazing.
01:01:02Thank you for coming on.
01:01:03Thank you so much.
01:01:04All right.