WV Raman, ex-Indian opener and coach of Indian women's team, talks about their chances in World Test Championship final, England series.
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00:00This is Gautam Bhattacharya of Gulf News. I welcome you to a very special conversation
00:06with a very special guest. We have got W. V. Raman with me as a former Indian opener.
00:13He's worn many a hat in Indian cricket, let us say. After his international career,
00:21he switched on to some serious coaching. He has coached the Tamil Nadu team, the Bengal
00:26state teams. He has been a coach of the Indian women's team. And what a lot of people may not
00:32know is that, you know, during his tenure as the U-19 India coach, he had seen a sudden
00:40Virat Kohli bloom under him in a couple of tours before he led the country to the U-19 World Cup.
00:47Welcome W. V. Thank you, Gautam. How are you all well? Yeah, we are good. As good
00:54as we can be in these times. Well, today, you know, our conversation will certainly
01:02veer around the, you know, the two big series that is coming up. One is, of course, the World
01:08Test Championship final, which is a one-off game, which is starting, which will be held from June 18
01:14to 22 at the US Bowl. It will be followed by a very tight five test series in England. Of course,
01:24I will pick W. V.'s brains about the WTC final before. Now, since we have got to, I'm not going
01:32to ask you about the favourite stuff, not that team. What I'm going to ask you is,
01:39you see, there is a talk that given, you know, vis-a-vis India versus New Zealand's preparations.
01:46New Zealand are said to be a little better prepared because they have reached there
01:51by end May and they've already ended up playing two test matches in the early summer conditions
01:57in England. India, on the other hand, are trying to put in as best as they could there, you know,
02:03at this point as we speak, they are playing a four-day warm-up game and the guys are getting
02:09into the groove. So, vis-a-vis the readiness for such a big battle, W. V., what's your take on that?
02:18See, used to have situations in the past when the teams had a lot of side games, get acclimatized to
02:23the conditions and have some useful match time leading up to the test series, but all that is
02:29gone because of the packed future store program of the ICC. So, along those lines, teams are not
02:37fussy about having enough time prior to a test match or a test series to get used to the conditions.
02:44Nonetheless, what will happen is that it will be said that in comparison to New Zealand, the
02:50Indian boys haven't had a test series prior to the WTC final. But if you look at the way the
02:58boys have performed, the Indian boys have performed in the last 12-15 months, you would see that
03:03they fought all the odds, be it on the field or off the field and they prevailed over it.
03:10And the best thing about this that there is no one or two particular individuals that the team
03:15is really banking on. Everybody is performing and contributing to whatever extent. In fact,
03:22sometimes they go beyond people's expectations. That's a fantastic sign because you saw
03:28the Washington Sunders and the Ashwin's play, the kind of knocks that they played on the
03:35situations that they played. And also, Anuma Vihari battling injury and then playing a gritty
03:42knock, even though numerically that may not have been much. He made sure that India was taken to
03:50safety. So, that being the case, I think what is important in international cricket, as we
03:55repeatedly say, it may be cliched, it's a mindset that is important. On that front, I think the boys
04:01score very highly, the Indian boys. So, that should take care of the fact that they've not had
04:06enough match practice leading up to the World WTC. So, that is taken care of. In terms of the
04:15combination that they have, they have options in order to counter any conditions or to put up
04:22a formidable challenge to any opposition. So, that is another thing that's going in Virat's favor.
04:29We got good spinners, good batters, we got a fantastic fast-bowling unit. And of course,
04:36the batters, the one good thing with them is if they get through the initial phase, they're going
04:40to get runs quickly, which will give ample time for the bowlers to try and force a win.
04:46Yes, WB, I mean, that's a very practical point there. I don't think we can look back
04:53at those days when you'd be playing three, four, three-day games. I mean, that's absolutely true.
05:01Well, looking at the way India had been traveling in recent times, I mean, England, pardon me using
05:08that cliche, but England seems to be that last frontier. In Australia, we have done it now twice
05:142018-19. And then again, the last six. South Africa, we have kept a series drawn and comeback.
05:21New Zealand, of course, was a bit of a letdown last year, but we know what the conditions in
05:25New Zealand can be. And of course, England. Now, given the fact that in England, when the
05:32Test Series against England is starting, that's again in the latest half of summer in August,
05:37September, don't you think it's the best chance for the Indians given the way that they're playing
05:43their cricket? It's the best chance not because of the way England is playing at the moment,
05:50it's the best chance because this team is totally different to the one that is stored before.
05:56This is a battle-hardened team. I repeat this because each and every member of the team seems
06:03to be, you know, putting up his hand when it matters and perform. The other thing is that
06:08England seems to be banking on the medium basis, which I'm afraid is not going to work. I'll tell
06:13you why. Because one is that they need the conditions to be in their favor when they bowl,
06:18that cannot be a given, given the fact that the English weather can change every second. So,
06:24no side can make do without spinners. They've struggled in the series against New Zealand
06:28without playing the spinner. That is another problem that they need to try and somehow sort
06:34out. Even in terms of their fast-bowling attack, we did not see enough fists of the pitch for both
06:41Chris Broad and Anderson. They're getting on, let's face it. I have no problems with them
06:47continuing to play. That is not my call, that is not my bid. But the fact remains that they are in
06:52the evening of their careers, which means that it's not a case of them playing the combination
06:58of Anderson, Stewart, Broad in say 2014 or 2012. That's a different kettle of fish it was then.
07:04But it's 2021, we've seen that, you know, there's not much of fists of the pitch for them. And they
07:12need the conditions to try and set the cat among the pigeons. If the conditions are not what they
07:18expect them to be, then I think the Indian batters are going to have a good time.
07:26Well, if we take up the WTC final to start with, yes, I mean, you've got a very valid point there.
07:32I mean, what kind of role do you see? I'm just starting from a little backward. What kind of
07:37role do you see Ravi Ashwin and probably Jadeja playing on the against bowl turf,
07:45which is, you know, which often tends to hit the spinners?
07:50See, the thing is that they can create a lot of confusion in the minds of the batters.
07:58Let's take Ravi Ashwin for the time being. There are a lot of left-handers in the New Zealand side,
08:03which means that even if he gets one or two deliveries to deviate across the bat
08:08for those left-handers, then they're really, you know, getting to think that,
08:12hello, the ball is spinning away from the bat. What if some don't turn and some start coming
08:20into us, coming in with the arm? Which is which? They need to first pick those one out. If you saw
08:26the series against England, we saw a lot of left-handers getting on to Ravi Ashwin, you know,
08:31not being able to pick the ball that, you know, keeps coming in after pitching, rather than,
08:35you know, the ball deviating across the face of the bat. Now, that is something that they need
08:41to think about. And if you're talking about Jadeja, he can be as nagging as a woodpecker.
08:50Give the ball and say, okay, boss, get on with it. And he would land it wherever he wants it to,
08:55repeatedly like a machine. Now, what more do you need? And he can surprise the batsman with a little
09:01bit of turn and bounce now and then. See, if the ball keeps deviating consistently every delivery,
09:08then the batsman can plan and do something about it. But if it's a case of the ball deviating now
09:13and then, that is going to be really a problem for the batsman to handle. Especially if you are not
09:18accustomed to having the benefit of playing against quality spinners in your first-class
09:23cricket, or when you have not been recently playing first-class spinners in international
09:29cricket. When I say first-class spinners, I'm talking in terms of quality. If you have not
09:33played a good spin attack in international cricket, then you are going to be in trouble.
09:39Right. So, but that, you know, like, if we are taking both Ashwin and Jadeja into equation,
09:47what kind of… See, it's a hypothetical question, but which we all cricket fans love to discuss.
09:53What kind of, you know, combination you're looking at, because you've got a problem of
09:57plenty when you're talking about the basics. Now, what we don't possibly have is a seeming
10:03all-rounder, I mean, which would have given you that flexibility. You know, maybe you can try
10:10Shardul Thakur under the circumstances, but what would you have done?
10:15See, Gautam, it's surprising, you know, that you say that we don't have the flexibility
10:22in terms of all-rounders. What more do you need? If you play Jadeja, Ashwin and Rishabh Pant,
10:28you've got fabulous flexibility because they're all seasoned all-rounders in a way,
10:34because all three of them are world-renowned in international cricket. They're capable of playing
10:38under pressure and they are, you know, multi-dimensional, even in the test version.
10:47That way, I think both Ravi and Virat have a lot of options. If you're looking at the fact that
10:54it's going to be just one test, you want to be the ultimate winner. They can still go for a
11:013-2 combination, three paces and two spinners, which means that the paces can be used whenever
11:08the conditions are ideal. Otherwise, the spinners can, you know, go through a few overs. The other
11:12thing that will benefit India is, when they play two spinners, is that it will enable the ball to
11:19get scuffed a little bit quicker, which means that will facilitate reverse swing for the medium
11:25bases too. So, that being the case, five bowlers to bowl a position out twice and you've got a good
11:33balance of two spinners and three steamers and you're having in all five bowlers to bowl the
11:38team out, as I said earlier. And out of those five bowlers, two spinners can bat extraordinarily well.
11:44You can also have Shami, who can hang in there a bit. If they play Ishaan Sharma, he can also hang
11:49in there a bit. Let's face it, Gautam, you're not going to have all the level capable of getting a
11:53100 in a test level. You need some specialist bowlers to get you wickets. Absolutely.
12:01Well, WB, I was reading one of your interviews in recent times,
12:08where you made an interesting take about Cheteshwar Pujara. It was about
12:16Pujara, but at the same time, what would be the ideal approach in England as to where the conditions
12:21keep changing? So, it should be like playing your strokes once in a while too. So,
12:29does this hold for all the five in the top order? I mean, of course, Rishabh, we all know how he bats.
12:37Should it hold for all the five top batters that when we say apply yourself,
12:44I mean, how do you strike that balance in England? You give the first two hours to the
12:50bowlers or to the conditions and then how should the approach change?
12:56See, as it is, our batters, except Pujara, who's just a test specialist, when I say just a
13:02test specialist, he's only playing test cricket, not in any other connotation.
13:08He obviously is one who likes to grind the attack. Otherwise, you have all the batters who like to
13:13get on with it, get runs quickly. Now, one important thing is that they should not try and look at
13:20hanging in there and grinding the attack away. Because in England, with the usual weather
13:27patterns being what they are, sunny one moment, cloudy next, ball swinging and seeming and suddenly
13:33it's coming straight at you where you pick a lot of runs quickly enough. So, that being the
13:39expected conditions, we don't know how it will turn out because there's no saying things about
13:43the weather for certain. What I would sort of look at these batsmen doing is to not lose
13:51out on any scoring opportunities. A classic example was the Rossdale innings yesterday.
13:59He was playing shorts. There were times when people felt it was a 50-50 chance he might get
14:04out. But the point was that it was a calculated onslaught. You need to try and get your runs.
14:10The reason why I had said in one of those interviews that Pujara should do it is that
14:14because the opposition will not expect him to play more shorts than he normally does.
14:21That will really set them thinking. You are upsetting the thinking and the planning that
14:25they have done. Because these days, everybody has to see what the opposition players are capable
14:31of doing. They analyse. They come out with a plan. But you try and sort of do something which
14:36they are not catered to, which they have not thought about. Then you really sort of set the
14:41cat among the pigeons. So, they know Pujara is playing shorts. What do we do now? So, once you
14:48put the bowlers in the back foot with something that they are not really catered for, then it's
14:55going to be difficult for the opposition team to sort of rearrange their plans quickly enough.
15:00Even in a matter of one hour, Pujara surprises them by playing a lot more shorts than he normally
15:05does. Now, if you're talking about, let's say, 7-8 boundaries, 30-40 quicker runs,
15:12I won't say quicker runs, will make a lot of difference in a session. Just before finishing,
15:17I mean, what do you make of this New Zealand team? Because, you know, from these two test matches that
15:23have been going on, despite there being a certain sameness in their bowling attack, unlike India,
15:30they seem to be, they seem to have thought out their approach and they seem to have prepared
15:34well for this big occasion. So, what would be your take about their chances for a big game?
15:43They definitely stand a good chance. They've been doing extraordinarily well,
15:47in all the formats. The stark difference between India and New Zealand is that
15:54one has a lot of options, one nation, the other option has very limited. That again,
16:00they've used it to their advantage by focusing on the options available and ensuring that they use
16:07the talent to their optimum levels. So, it's an interesting study of the cricketing cultures,
16:14as well as the options available, as well as the systems that prevail in these countries.
16:19It's a great study, it will be, and it is contrasting in many ways. Yet, you know,
16:25that is sport, they both have gone to wire for the top prize in a couple of days' time.
16:30That's interesting, isn't it, by itself? Absolutely. Looking forward with that should
16:37be all. Thank you. Thank you, WV for your time. Thanks again. We'll be in touch. Thanks a lot, Gautam.