Cricket enthusiasts and businessmen in the UAE discuss the fallout of Virat Kohli's move to step down as captain.
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00:00It is probably the beginning of the downfall of Team India and we saw what happened in the preceding ODIs where we were whitewashed by an inexperienced South African team.
00:09It is the ego of the people who are handling the board that they would not go back to a resigning captain and say no, we need you and you need to carry on for two more years.
00:18The decision of his of leaving T20 captaincy was probably right. Timing was wrong as everybody else said. But decision was right I feel.
00:29Yes, a captain should step down after losing a series. Why are we as Indians just drawn on just keeping a legacy figure after, you know, we went to South Africa, we said we're going to win this test series 3-0 and we lose this series 2-1.
00:43Hello and welcome to Gulf News Straight Back. We are back again to continue discussing what's been the shocking news about Virat Kohli resigning as India's test captain.
01:03Now we talked about this in the last show, I think for five or six days ago, but we barely scratched the surface of what's been going on. So I'm delighted to be joined by several very special guests to discuss Kohli and India even more.
01:18We have Anish Sajan aka Mr Cricket UAE. He's a cricket enthusiast and vice chairman of Danube Group. We also have Nilesh Bhatnagar, owner of Team Delhi Bulls in the Abu Dhabi T10 Cricket League and owner of NB Ventures. Nilesh has been following cricket since the days of Sonal Gavaskar and Kapil Dev.
01:38We also have Shailendra Raghwani, chairman of Experts Group of Companies. Shailendra has been an ardent follower of the game since childhood and has been part of several cricket leagues back in India. And we have KS Parag, managing director, First Video Communications. He's a cricket enthusiast and was the chairman of the FVC cricket team, which has played many corporate tournaments. And last but not least, we have our Gulf News expert, Shyam Krishna.
02:06Welcome to the show, guys. How's everybody doing?
02:08Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, Imran.
02:10All good, all good, all ready.
02:12Great. Okay, so let's just recap what's been going on with Kohli and India lately. As we know, he took charge of the cricket test side in 2014. And his record since then, in the last seven years, has been absolutely incredible. He's won 40 out of 68 test matches, making him the most successful test captain for India.
02:35But then he stepped down as the T20 captain just before the World Cup last year, which did not go down well with the BCCI, who then sacked him as the one day international captain, saying that they didn't want to have two different white ball captains. And then to round it all off, Kohli resigned as the test captain just 10 days ago after India lost the series against South Africa.
03:00Right then, Anish, let me start with you. The legendary Kohli is no longer leading India in any format of the game. Is this good or bad for the team?
03:10Very, very bad. And I had mentioned to you in our last conversation that it is probably the beginning of the downfall of Team India. And we saw what happened in the preceding ODIs, where we were whitewashed by an inexperienced South African team.
03:25I'm not saying only on the basis of this series. I'm talking about on the basis of what is also going to come in the future. I know nobody knows what's going to be the future. But we were beaten soundly by a South African team which had their own political problems.
03:38They had probably three experienced players. And they beat hands-down a team. Bearing Rohit Sharma, we had everybody in the team. So I feel, dropping Virat Kohli from the ODI captain who has won 16 ODI series out of the 20 he has played, was baffling just because he doesn't want to do T20 captainship.
03:58Nilesh, do you agree?
04:00Let me ask Anish a question here on exactly what he has said. Do you think if Virat was the captain, the result would have been different?
04:11Well, I would be unfair to Rahul if I say that the result would have been different. But the energy level which was lacking when Rahul was captaining, we all saw it. We felt that we were all going through the motions of the game.
04:24And then again, when Virat is there as a captain, you know the players probably give their more than 100 percent. Like how Virat himself gives. He gets the best out of him. He is one of those players who gets into the eye of the opposition.
04:38And that is what the opposition is scared of. But here we felt Virat Kohli was standing at one corner. Bearing the last match in the first hour, I felt he was out of place.
04:48And Rahul, as we have seen in Punjab Kings, he is probably a captain who just takes the game deep and unfortunately goes into a shell.
04:57Nilesh, let's bring Nilesh in. Ravi Shastri has just recently said that Kohli could have captained the side for at least two more years. I mean, he is only 33-34. He would have been 36 by the end of that stint.
05:10Do you think it was the wrong decision for the BCCI to accept the resignation of India's most successful test skipper?
05:19Yeah. So, I think the way it has been happening that the captains just say that I am resigning. But I think this resignation should be subject matter of acceptance by the board.
05:32Because board appoints them. So, board should have this thing to say, no, we don't accept it and you need to carry on.
05:40But there I think in case of the BCCI, it is the ego of the people who are handling the board that they would not go back to a resigning captain and say, no, we need you and you need to carry on for two more years till we groom somebody else in your place.
05:54So, I guess the egos come in the picture and then they say, fine, you want to go, you go. But that should not be the way that a captain of the stature of Kohli should be leaving the captaincy.
06:09There has to be some procedure or SOPs to be developed and implemented as in the constitution of BCCI, how somebody can be appointed and how somebody can resign. It should not be through a social media post.
06:27Better ways are there to tell the captain that you are no more the captain and better ways are there for the captain to say, I don't want to be the captain anymore.
06:38But Nilesh, do you think it was a bad move by Kohli to announce he is going to step down as the T20 captain right before the start of the World Cup last year? I mean, the team looked like they suffered because of that.
06:48I think that was not the right thing on part of Kohli to announce before the start of the tournament. I mean, everybody, there was so much of social media saying that when you are in your notice period, you don't really give your best.
07:04So, he was serving the notice period after his resignation and everybody, all the players know that he is not going to be the boss anymore. He knows that this is the last series or whatever.
07:16So, I think one could see the change in the dressing room atmosphere and the body language on the field of Indian team when he announced that he is going to leave and then they played the tournament. One could see the change of the body language already.
07:32Nilesh, I have one more question for you there. Didn't BCCA also miss a trick by not grooming a successor to Kohli? Because we had Ajinkya Rahane who is around the same age. But you could not look at him as a future captain. But they didn't really groom anybody. What do you say about that?
07:53Yeah, I think there are enough people in the team. In fact, Indian team has almost 5 or 6 captains of the IPL teams. So, I would say there is enough talent in the Indian team for the leadership role.
08:09There is Shreya Shire, there is Isha Pant, KL is also a captain of one of the teams. So, there are enough captains in the Indian team and there is a lot of bench strength in terms of leadership. So, I am not really concerned about that.
08:27But here again, what baffles me is that Kohli was not the captain of ODIs. They have appointed Rohit Sharma, I think who is even 1 or 2 years elder to Kohli. So, it is again not a very futuristic decision. You should get somebody who can be in the job for the next 3, 4, 5 years and not somebody who is already 35, 36.
08:54So, that decision possibly could have been with the next World Cup which is going to happen in India. Maybe with keeping that in mind, let's get Rohit on board and then after the World Cup, we bring some younger guy.
09:09Yeah, that's a good point. Sharma is also quite injury prone. Let me just bring in Shailendra. There are loads of rumors flying around as to why Kohli stepped down. In fact, there are so many rumors, we could probably do a separate show just about all the gossip. But we are not going to do that. But first of all, Shailendra, do you think he has been treated unfairly? And secondly, where does this leave the team?
09:31The first question, treated unfairly? I am sure he has been treated unfairly. I mean, the decision of his of leaving T20 captaincy was probably right. Timing was wrong as everybody else said. But decision was right I feel because he probably wanted to focus more on test and one day cricket.
09:57Also, giving a chance to Rohit who has been a better captain in T20 format in terms of IPL and other events. So, he should have probably been given transition time for one day cricket and groomed somebody.
10:21Because right now, even Rahul, I mean, captaining this, he was not even ready for it. So, the grooming time was not given. I mean, just calling him and announcing that you are no more a captain to somebody who has dedicated years of his life to cricket and to India. So, yes, the treatment was not fair, I believe.
10:48The second question about what could have gone better. Sorry, I missed the second question.
10:58Where do you think it leaves the team?
11:01Right now, I mean, there is a mess. I mean, I believe Kohli leaving test captaincy is going to be a massive loss for Indian cricket. So, lot of problems have come all together.
11:20One is, one day, of course, Rohit has been announced as a captain for one day cricket. But then, he is prone to injury. So, what happens when he is not around? Who captains him?
11:37And secondly, the test. Yes, there is lot of confusion. As Dinesh Bhai mentioned that yes, there are capable players. But nobody has been groomed. So, we don't know their capabilities as captains.
11:51Captaining IPL team or captaining league in India is different to captaining actual Indian test cricket. So, yes, there is confusion. And I feel BCCI should talk, sit with Kohli, talk to him and somehow convince him to continue captaincy in test cricket. That's what I feel.
12:20I think this is a very key question. I would like to bring Nilesh back in to have his opinion. Nilesh, do you think he has been treated unfairly after all he has done for the team?
12:28Definitely. I mean, there is no doubt about it. You don't announce to a captain one hour before the team has been announced that you are no more the captain of the ODI team.
12:42Knowing Kohli and knowing Ganguly, I would rather believe Kohli's press conference than Ganguly's claim that he had actually requested Kohli to continue. I think that was a very false claim. And Ganguly should not be the one to ask Kohli to continue. It should be the selectors because they are the ones who appoint him.
13:04It's not the president of the board's decision to appoint the captain. So, I don't know in what capacity Ganguly would have requested Kohli to continue. Even if his claim was right, that is completely not the way it should be. It should be the selectors to tell Kohli that look, we would like you to continue.
13:22One more thing I don't understand. Just because the colour of the ball is same, they treat T20 and ODI as the same game whereas these are very two different animals. The colour of the ball should not matter. T20 is more of a tamasha whereas ODI is a very serious cricketing game that you are playing which we have seen in the last three ODIs.
13:51The grind that you need in playing ODI, lasting 50 overs and basing your innings and selecting your batting order, very very technical, requires very high acumen of cricketing mind which is not the case in a T20 game. T20 is just go and bloody get everything out of the ground.
14:15I am sure Anish Bhai will agree that T20 and ODI are very very different games and just to say that because the colour of the ball is the same, we need the same captain. Completely wrong. They have got it completely wrong, I would say.
14:28I would like to add here to what Nilesh Bhai said that this is no more a cricket, it's more of politics and egos playing around.
14:38Imran, get Parag in.
14:42Parag has been waiting very patiently. Parag, I think we can only speculate why he has quit as a test captain but what do you think has been going on behind the scenes for this to all come to a head?
14:53I have a completely different view. I am sorry, my view is completely on a contrasting board, completely from all what you are saying. I am not here about the treatment to Kohli and yes, whatever is done has been done badly. I am not here completely on that.
15:10But I am completely based on only one thing, outcome. So today, yes, the way it's done badly, keep that separate. But today, yes, a captain should step down after losing a series. Why are we as Indians just drawn on just keeping a legacy figure after we went to South Africa, we said we are going to win this test series 3-0 and we lose this series 2-1.
15:35So I am sorry, if Virat Kohli had to step down as captaincy, he steps down. We are a nation who is supposed to have breeding cricket out there, out there in the backyard. We are supposed to have so many IPLs and so many cricketers. I am sorry, let's bring young talent, that's one.
15:50Second, cricket, all sports is played between 20-30 years. Yesterday, you have young talent starting at 18 and maximum, you have talent who go up to 32, 33, 34. Now, yesterday, let's not go with cricket versus tennis. Tennis is different. Tennis, you are an individual sport, you could be even playing at 38-39 without disturbing your team.
16:12But when you are talking about a sport, you are talking about teamwork, maximum cricket life is between maximum 18-32-33 years. So I am sorry, we have to bring younger talent and we have to play based on outcomes. So when you are looking at outcomes, 20-30 is maximum shelf life of a cricketer, that's one.
16:32Second, BCCI is paying one of the most highest paid cricketers in the world. I don't know how many of us are aware, three of these cricketers are paid 11 crores a year, that's almost 1 crore a month. And the other players are paid 7 crores a year, which is a good amount of money. So when we are paying so much money, why can't we ask as a nation, results for winning.
16:58I am sorry, I am not here for Virat Kohli, I am not here for Rohit Sharma. I am here for a clear win and outcome for India. And if that is our way moving forward, I am sorry, if it's Virat loses a series, he steps down. If Rohit Sharma runs a series, he steps down. Yes, we will bring younger cricketers, they will lose, they will learn from experience, but they will come up.
17:20I always remember one World Cup, which was 1987 World Cup, where I don't know, all of us were there. Sri Lanka lost all the matches of the World Cup. What did the Sri Lankan board do? They actually fired the whole team, retained only two players and said, we will win the 1995 World Cup. They groomed for eight years, eight years and they won the World Cup. So that's how we as India have to look at. Now, India cannot afford eight years, we have to look at the 2023 World Cup.
17:49A series may be a disaster, may be a disaster, but then this experience will come through the team. They have to learn, they have to learn from failures. We have to give 2023 as the World Cup to win. And we have to make sure that we make ourselves sharper, better and smarter and more efficient. That's my view. That's my humble view.
18:09I completely agree with you there. But I have one more question to ask as a follow up. Can't this transition be managed little more better?
18:18Yeah, I agree, we should have managed it better. Okay, but I'm only only humbly saying, let's start stopping living in the legacy world of the Virat Kohli's or the Rohit Sharma's and everything and all that. Okay, we lived in the Dhoni's of the world. Okay, means I have the greatest respect. He won us the 2011 World Cup. I have, I will bow down to Dhoni. But I would say 2015 should have been Dhoni's last World Cup. That's my view. Okay.
18:45Then dragging on the team, you know, after 2016, 2017 is not required. Okay. So today you have to understand when do you have we have to step when a when cricketers reach their peak, their legacy, and you don't drag on players because you're affecting a team. Okay, now my view is and today 2019 World Cup. Okay, you made Virat Kohli a hero. Okay, you went to the extent that you know, India is going to win the World Cup in 2019.
19:10You went up to the extent and said Virat Kohli is going to be running a bare chest across lots. Okay, that was the thing. No one thought about World Cup 2019, India was on the finals. No one thought we're going to get out of the semifinals. Okay, everyone was only thinking the World Cup final and not only we'll be in the final, India will be in the final, but they'll win the World Cup. That is the hype you carry. Okay, everyone carried that hype. And I'm sorry, we lost it. Okay, we didn't even qualify the semifinals.
19:40Okay, so when something like this happens, why does a nation more than a billion people with so much of, you know, power behind cricket is not taking the right decision, we have to take it. Okay, when you are in business, you take the decision, okay, and say fine, if this particular leader is unsuccessful, we actually tell the CEO to step down. I'm sorry, the CEO of the team is the captain of the team, he has to learn to step down and give way to someone else who may fail, but he actually learned from that.
20:09Okay, that's my view. Okay, I have nothing, I have the greatest respect for Virat Kohli, I have the greatest respect for Rohit Sharma. But today, I want an India which wins, a clear outcome based India. Okay, not basically living in the legacies of Virat Kohli or the Rohit Sharma's of the world. Okay, I don't mind whether it's Rashabh Pant or KL Rahul, they may fail today, but they will be successful tomorrow. And I have the greatest respect on Dravid being the coach. Okay, that's the best decision BCCI has made.
20:39I don't agree. I don't agree with that, Farhad.
20:42It's the best decision they made and he will come up, he will change the team. That's my view.
20:48Minesh, can you go on on the part of…
20:51Yeah, let's have your thoughts on that.
20:54On Dravid, is it?
20:56Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:57You see, Dravid, I think they have done the very big mistake of making Dravid the coach of the senior team. Dravid was doing a brilliant job developing the codes of the Indian cricket and making them from boys to men. That's what he was doing.
21:11He was technically correcting them, he was mentoring them and emotionally and technically and you know, really that's the role that Dravid was playing.
21:21Now the qualities required for the senior team are very different. You know, I don't think anybody who qualifies to be in senior India XI needs to be told how to bat, how to ball.
21:34And for that, anyway, there is a batting coach and a bowling coach. So the role of the coach, I feel, is to really motivate the team, you know, make them bring a purpose to their presence on the field.
21:50You know, motivate them and you know, I mean, something like what Shahrukh Khan did in Chak De India, you know, that movie where you need to bring the passions of the players to a level that they hate losing.
22:04You know, that is the job of the coach, you know, which Ravi Shastri was doing brilliantly, frankly speaking.
22:10And I don't think, you know, if you have a combination on one hand India and a combination of a Shastri and a Kohli where both were so aggressive that they took the passions of the game, passions of the Indian players to a high.
22:24And suddenly you have a combination of Dravid and KL Rahul, you know, I mean, they both are very sober and, you know, very quiet and, you know, completely you have taken away the entire enthusiasm and passion from the dressing room to be a very, you know, government of India employee type of a role that these guys are playing.
22:51You know, you cannot do that. You know, you can't remove, you know, Kohli and Shastri and bring KL Rahul and Dravid.
22:58Dravid, quite a misfit for the coach of the senior team, a brilliant guy for coach of the junior team, I would say, personal opinion.
23:08I mean, Dravid is an icon. We have all, you know, loved him so much in his career.
23:14He is the wall of the Indian team. But then, you know, one more thing I would like to say here that just as the captain of the white ball and red ball can be different, why can't the coaches of the red ball and white ball be different?
23:28You know…
23:29I think I agree with Nilesh.
23:32So, you know, in a test match, you need to be the wall, but not in a T20 or an ODI that you need to be the wall.
23:40If you tell everyone to be the wall, then, you know, you won't win many matches in limited overs cricket.
23:45So, this is, I should also consider the fact that you can have different coaches for different versions of the game, just as you want to have different captains.
23:54That's a very interesting point, Anish. Different captains, different coaches for different formats of the game. Is that the right way to go about it, Anish?
24:02Like, first, before I answer this question, you know, what Nilesh mentioned about the point that white ball, that doesn't make any logic to have two different…
24:16To have the same captain. He is absolutely right that one white ball, you are playing an aggressive slam-bang cricket, T20.
24:23So, the logic given by the BCCI, rather the so-called Board of… Chairman of Board or whatever it is called, Sir of Ganguly, that he said that that is too much of captainship.
24:34If Virat Kohli wants to step down as T20 captain, we would not like to have him as ODI.
24:41That did not make any sense to me, like Nilesh, and I endorse because T20 is a different format of a game where you do not require your mind.
24:51It's more about attacking skills. Whereas in an ODI, you require to use your temperament.
24:55Now, coming to the second point, you mentioned, you asked me about having separate coaches.
25:00There is no harm because Dravid, as we all know, is a defensive type of a player.
25:05So, in a test cricket, he might probably add his value and you can probably make the techniques better if there is a player having a flaw.
25:14But you cannot teach them everything in cricket because the seniors, they have played so much of cricket, they might probably give you one year and let it go.
25:22What as a coach you require, like Ravi Shastri did, is that you need to be a motivator.
25:26You cannot be a headmaster. There is a difference between a motivator and a headmaster.
25:31And the reason Ravi Shastri and Virat Kohli were successful, one was a motivator and one was a player, was very aggressive.
25:38In fact, both were aggressive. They looked in the eye of the opposition, whether playing against Australia, whether playing against England.
25:44Tell me, in the history of Indian cricket, even MS Dhoni, barring winning the World Cup.
25:50Okay, I understand an ICC title is important. What has MS Dhoni achieved when it comes to going abroad and winning Test Series?
25:56MS Dhoni has not won a single Test Series abroad. We are talking about Sachin Tendulkar. We are talking about Sourav Ganguly.
26:03We are talking about Azharuddin. Not one Indian captain has won a Test Series.
26:10An ODI series, barring England, we have not won anywhere. So, how can we say that Virat Kohli was a bad ODI captain?
26:19And when it comes to Tests, stats don't lie. He has won 40 Test matches out of 68.
26:25Come on, Nimran, give me a break. On what grounds are you asking him?
26:29And one more thing, before I know it, it's getting a bit long from my side.
26:32You say when he wanted to step down, you said, Virat, don't step down. We want you to continue.
26:39The moment he stepped down as Test captain, you said, thank you very much, Virat, for your service.
26:45That shows you did not want him. They were jealous of his success.
26:48I will just add here, one of the greatest cricketers the world has seen, Shen Gong, he has clearly mentioned that,
26:58thanked Virat because cricket was on decline and because of the passion he brought in, Test cricket has been rejuvenated.
27:11And he is one of the reasons that you see a lot of Test cricket being played from different countries.
27:24Sorry, Shyam, he hasn't scored a Test in three years now.
27:28And he said that the pressure of captaining the team was the reason that he was struggling with the bat.
27:33So now, what sort of performances can we expect from him, seeing as he doesn't have any of these responsibilities weighing him down anymore?
27:40So I would say you'll see a better Virat Kohli batting.
27:45I'm a great fan of his batting and I would actually applaud him as great as a batsman.
27:50We should see much better performance.
27:53If you remember, Sachin Tendulkar was a brief stint as Indian captain and then afterwards he stepped down and then you saw him batting.
28:01So the pressure of captaincy versus going and getting after the runs, I would say we will see a better Virat.
28:06Okay, 100% we'll see a better Virat from a batting perspective.
28:11And he's a great cricketing legend and definitely he's a great guy.
28:15Shyam wanted to say something.
28:17Yeah, okay. Let me skip that and I'll come back to what Shailendra said here.
28:23But even as captain, Dhoni's figures were exceptional.
28:27I mean, for a captain, I don't think he's… I mean, his aggregates is better than anybody in India.
28:34And I think except for ponding, he's got the best figures actually.
28:39Not in Test cricket.
28:42He started off with three centuries, right?
28:46You're talking about runs or you're talking about series wins?
28:50No, not series. I'm talking about runs scored.
28:53No, you're talking of Kohli or Dhoni?
28:57Kohli.
28:58But you mentioned Dhoni to begin with.
29:01No, no. Sorry.
29:02Yeah, yeah. That's what I thought. I thought you were talking about Kohli actually.
29:06No, no. I was talking about Kohli. Because I did a special report on it.
29:11So I went through the figures and Kohli's scoring as a captain was much better than…
29:17Very good. Extremely good.
29:20Yes. And perhaps only Ricky Ponding seemed to have better figures than him actually.
29:26So at no point did I feel that the captaincy was affecting his batting.
29:32No.
29:33Only in the last two years, it was a general decline compared to his standards.
29:37Absolutely.
29:38If you look at the other… If you compare with other batsmen, yes, it is high.
29:44Because he has such high standards, he didn't measure up to that. Otherwise, he was fine.
29:50So even… It was not just later tests. It was a general slump in form across all formats.
29:55So I wouldn't really agree with the fact that captaincy affected his batting.
30:01But it did in the case of Sachin Tendulkar. Yes, Sachin Tendulkar was never the player.
30:06Okay.
30:07So was Ian Botham. If you remember Ian Botham, he was a flop as a captain.
30:12And the moment the captaincy was taken away from him, he was a different player.
30:17Yeah, but… Okay, just one minute. Just to add in here.
30:20I think if you really want to talk about captains, I think probably one of the best captains we've seen is Steve Waugh.
30:26Okay.
30:27So he's the guy… He actually made a test to win. A captain's knock.
30:32And he would actually play to win.
30:35So I would give him the biggest respect in terms of captaincy, in terms of really playing a captain's knock,
30:41and being there for the team in terms of making it happen.
30:44So I think these are things.
30:46So basically, my humble opinion would be is, yesterday, you have seen in the last one year, two years,
30:55Virat Kohli, maybe the pressure of captaincy has been there.
30:59Okay, he's a great batsman, the best batsman we have in the world.
31:03But definitely, that has affected.
31:06But, you know, no one is Steve Waugh.
31:09Okay, you don't have Steve Waugh.
31:10Okay, probably after Steve Waugh to a certain degree, Ricky Ponting.
31:13But Steve Waugh was a captain to win.
31:17And that's the kind of captaincy we need.
31:19If India needs to get back to that particular thing and win the World Cup 2023,
31:23whether it's Virat Kohli, Rohit Sharma, or KL Rahul, or whoever it is,
31:28but that's the kind of captaincy we need to win to win the ODI.
31:31Okay, or the World Cup 2023.
31:33And I think it's high time India gets back and wins that cup.
31:37Shailendra, India scaled, as we know, great heights with Kohli in charge of the team.
31:44I think he's got 100% record at home in India.
31:47And obviously, there was those amazing series wins in Australia, in West Indies,
31:51and so many more.
31:53But now, without him pulling the strings, do you think it's going to set the team back?
31:59I think that the period till it settles is going to be turbulent.
32:06So, I still believe that, at least for the test team,
32:12the board should talk to him and ask him to come back and groom somebody else.
32:19Because right now, frankly speaking, nobody was prepared for this.
32:23There's no second in line waiting.
32:25I mean, there was somebody, Rahane was his vice-captain for ages,
32:29but even he's not sure of his place in the team.
32:33So, right now, there's a lot of confusion and turbulence.
32:36He should come back.
32:38And probably, like how Dhoni had identified Kohli as his next in line to take over.
32:46And he groomed him for years.
32:48I mean, at least 3-4 years.
32:51We all knew that Dhoni steps down and Kohli is taking over.
32:58So, right now, unfortunately, there's no one name who can...
33:03We are talking about test cricket.
33:05Nobody there who can be ready to take over.
33:10Including Rohit, I believe.
33:12Because even he's really...
33:15I mean, age-wise, yes, he's probably 34-35.
33:2035.
33:2135.
33:22And we don't know how long he's going to play all 3 formats.
33:27And he's really a specialist wide ball player.
33:30So, if he focuses on that, it's better.
33:32But test, I believe Kohli should come back.
33:37And should be given an agenda to groom somebody.
33:41And given a chance to step down in a better way than what has happened right now.
33:52It's like he was forced to step down.
33:55So, that is really an unfortunate incident in Indian cricket, I believe.
34:03Anes, it's been a really bad tour of South Africa.
34:06Obviously, they lost the Test Series 2-1.
34:08And they've been beaten in the One Day Internationals 3-0.
34:10Now, I wonder, Rahul Dravid, how likely is it that the men in blue are going to be
34:16entering a transitional period across all the formats of the game?
34:20And how long do you think this transitional period could last?
34:24If you're talking about ODI cricket, specifically?
34:27All of them. ODI.
34:30Okay. So, first, I'll give you an answer for Test cricket.
34:33Now, like I mentioned before, if Virat Kohli wanted to get his stats better,
34:39the two weaker teams are coming to India to play.
34:42You have first West Indies, then Sri Lanka and Afghanistan.
34:47His Test record would have jumped to almost 48 or 49.
34:50Because I think everybody is playing a couple of Tests.
34:52If I'm not wrong, at least two of them are playing a couple of Test matches.
34:55All the series are happening at home.
34:58So, that would have been an easy thing for Virat Kohli that I don't step down.
35:01Because he was angry, because the way he was let off in the ODI, he decided to step down.
35:06Now, you ask me how the transition?
35:08Yes, playing in India, we might not have the difficulty because we make spinners' paradise.
35:13And we might win the Test matches.
35:15But again, when I say ODI cricket, we might still struggle.
35:19As much as we feel that Rohit Sharma is a good wide-ball captain,
35:23but his credential in wide-ball captain has been good in the shorter format.
35:27When I say shorter, the T20 format.
35:29So, the 50-over format, the World Cup which is going to happen in India,
35:33I feel like Shailendra said that because they should request Virat Kohli for the Test,
35:39why not tell him, boss, all is gone, what has happened.
35:43Let's keep our egos aside.
35:45Come together and make sure that we win the T23 World Cup.
35:49Parag wants India to win the T23 World Cup.
35:51I don't see any other captain winning the World Cup except Virat Kohli for us in India.
35:59But calling back Kohli would be a retrograde step, isn't it?
36:04It would be a backward step, isn't it?
36:06It's about ego. It's about ego.
36:08You see, their logic of removing him because he did not want to continue the T20 captainship.
36:14We all have different opinions and I might be right or I might be wrong.
36:18That's for people to decide.
36:20But you cannot force him to be a T20 captain to continue an ODI captain.
36:24And he had clearly mentioned he wanted to be an ODI captain.
36:28And the records say, his records are phenomenal in ODI cricket.
36:32I mean, even Rohit Sharma, he is around 20 centuries behind him.
36:37So, what are we talking about?
36:40Yeah. Completely agree with what Tanish is saying. Absolutely.
36:45See, BCCI is famous for, you know, it appears that they were not very happy with the record of Kohli.
36:55And they didn't like the team of Kohli and Shastri, frankly.
36:59They were not very comfortable because together they were such a formidable force that
37:03they wouldn't sort of listen to the BCCI bigwigs and massage their egos.
37:09You know, one very strange thing that happened, which proves that BCCI was somehow trying to break the nexus
37:17between Kohli and Ravi Shastri was the fact that for the T20 World Cup, which happened just a few months back,
37:24they infused Dhoni into the bloody equation.
37:28And, you know, as a mentor, I don't understand what was the role of Dhoni getting into the Indian dressing room
37:34when you have a seven-year-old captain, a captain who has been captaining the team for seven years,
37:40and a coach who together they have such a phenomenal track record.
37:45Why was Dhoni put into the dressing room when there is no role as a mentor required for the senior team?
37:53It was creating confusion and, you know, completely, you know…
38:00Not required.
38:02It was not required. It was shown in the team selection.
38:05You know, when we played against Pakistan, we had, you know, Varun Chakravorty, whereas, you know,
38:11Ashwin was sitting inside the dressing room.
38:13You know, whereas, you know, a very, very experienced person who was, you know…
38:22I mean, we can talk many things, but again, BCCI comes up with such decisions that they are not very easy to understand.
38:31And, you know, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, another thing that we have is that, you know,
38:37the selectors that we have in the Indian board, themselves are, you know, selecting a test cricket team
38:44when they themselves have played one match or two match or three matches.
38:47You know, those are the type of selectors that we have.
38:50You know, they themselves never played cricket and they become the selectors and they select the future of Indian cricket team,
38:57which is also not… I don't know why it happens like that.
39:00You know, so, I mean, Chetan Sharma deciding who should be the captain of the Indian cricket team
39:06is quite difficult for me to digest, frankly speaking.
39:12Okay, guys. So, look, the million-dollar question is who is going to be India's next test captain?
39:18Everyone's been linked. Rohit Sharma, we've spoken about.
39:21The youngster, Rishabh Kant, has been mentioned.
39:24Jaspreet Bumrah has also been linked with it.
39:28I've been linked with it. The guy making the curry chai has been linked with it.
39:31Everyone's been linked with it. But I have to go around the group and just ask
39:35who they think should be the next test captain and what qualities do you think they need to have?
39:40Nilesh, we'll start with you.
39:43I would… See, first of all, the person who will be the captain should be somebody who's got his permanent place in the team
39:49at least for the next three, four, five years.
39:52I feel, you know, at this point of time, I would go for somebody like Shreyas Iyer to be the test captain
40:00and possibly Rishabh Pant to be the white-ball captain, you know, to be groomed over a period of time under Rohit Sharma.
40:08But certainly, I wouldn't recommend Rishabh Pant to be the test captain. I would go for Shreyas Iyer.
40:15Shailendra, what about you? Test captain, who should it be?
40:19Yeah, the future captain, I believe, in the present team setup, I believe if Rahul is, you know, trained,
40:29he would be most suitable amongst the present players.
40:35For test?
40:36For test, yeah.
40:39But you think Rahul is a permanent member of the test team?
40:45See, as a batsman, yes.
40:47I doubt very much.
40:48If not a opener, he could be two down, three down, you know.
40:55So, I would give Rishabh Pant, not for anything else. Yes, there's still a lot of learning for him, a lot of maturity to him.
41:04But I'm definitely with the opinion that test cricket captain should be separate and the ODI captain should be separate.
41:10Who is that, Parag?
41:12So, it's difficult to say on the test cricket, but yeah, Shreyas Iyer could be a potential one for that.
41:20So, that could be it. But if the selectors want to have one, then I would go with Rishabh Pant for both the formats.
41:27But yeah, ideally, could have Shreyas Iyer and Rishabh Pant for the ODI.
41:33And I'm sorry, and one thing.
41:39The only reason I don't, not picking up Rohit, not keeping the future in part.
41:43Okay, so let's keep a captain for the next four to five years.
41:46Yes, he'll make mistakes for the first year, but then he'll come back stronger after that.
41:51Sorry.
41:52Emraan, you asked me what?
41:54Yeah, Anis, who do you think should it be? Who can do it as well as Kohli?
41:57Who can be better than Kohli as test captain?
42:00As I said, now playing in India, anybody who will capture, even Chetan Sharma or Sourav Ganguly comes also,
42:05he might also probably win the test match in India.
42:07I have to say, and I'll repeat on record, that if India wants to do abroad in test cricket,
42:13winning in India is no secret.
42:16But if you want to maintain that record of the number one test cricket team,
42:20India has to go back, the BCCI has to keep their egos aside and go back to Virat Kohli.
42:26Boss, what has happened? Let's forget the past. Let's mingle our differences and go and make him as the test captain.
42:32And when it comes to ODI, if Rohit Sharma is fit, let them go in with Rohit Sharma.
42:37But if you have to ask me, if they don't want Virat Kohli, the only person which comes to my mind,
42:43I would probably back somebody who will be in the test side for a longer run.
42:47And test cricket would be… I like street smart captains.
42:52I would go back to Rishabh Pant, both in ODI and test.
42:56Okay. So, Anis, I know you keep saying Virat Kohli, everything great.
43:00I again respect it. But again, we lost the Test Cricket World Cup Championship.
43:05Why are you not looking at that? A captain has to win.
43:09As a country, we have to look at a winning and outcome clear as to be a win.
43:16Let's stop living in a legacy world.
43:19See, Parag, losing to New Zealand in the semi-finals was not really the right…
43:27You can't judge it by that. The match got over and there was rain and then they started first thing in the morning again.
43:34Sorry, Nilesh. I am talking about the World Cup Test Cricket Championship where we again won.
43:39Met New Zealand and we lost in England.
43:41Yeah, but you lost in the finals. You have gone to the finals. That itself is a big thing.
43:48Okay, fine. We lost the World Cup 2019. But at least now you should have groomed yourself, sharpened yourself.
43:55You should have said, hey, listen, let's not lose this one. This was supposed to be won by us.
44:00And we were again favourites to win. Again, we lost to New Zealand in the finals.
44:06But as a country, why can't we start looking at winning as an outcome?
44:13They try to win. Every country tries to win. So you win some and you lose some and you have to see the overall record.
44:21Yes, the ICC cabinet… Sorry, trophies are still not in Virat Kohli's cabinet.
44:29I agree, we lost the 2019 World Cup semi-final. We lost the World Test Championship finals to New Zealand, which was the first time.
44:38And we lost again under Virat Kohli, the Champions Trophy final, when he had just taken over as captain from MS Dhoni.
44:47And fourth was, this is the T20. So he has done it only one time in each format.
44:52But the fact, what I am trying to emphasise and I will keep on recording this tape,
44:57that stats of a captain has to be seen in the longer run. How much he has won.
45:04You cannot judge a captain by one loss in each format. That's my answer.
45:08Yeah, agreed.
45:10Okay, India's next test assignment is a two-match series against Sri Lanka at home next month between February and March.
45:19Guys, how do you see that going?
45:212-0 India.
45:23Absolutely.
45:27In probability, if Rohit is fit, I think he probably might be given the responsibility, the way BCCA is looking at it, probably.
45:40Yeah, 2-0 to India.
45:43The guys are confident. We'll see how they get on in the next test series.
45:47And of course, by then, we've got to know who's leading the team.
45:50But for now, I'd like to thank my guests for some very interesting thoughts and for coming on to the show.
45:55Remember to log on to gulfnews.com for all the latest news, reviews, analysis and so much more.
46:01In the meantime, keep safe, take care and we'll see you soon.
46:05Thanks guys and see you later.