The Princess of Wales visited a women's prison in Cheshire, where she talked to inmates in a mother-and-baby unit. During the visit, Catherine met specialist staff supporting new mothers, and former female inmates who gave birth while serving time.
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00:00So we thought we'd just tell you a little bit about some of the work that we do and
00:20sort of our approach that we have here at the Children and Older Babies Unit. So we
00:24use something called the Solihull approach, which is very much how that links into trauma
00:28as well, because obviously many of our women are probably going to come into person with
00:32some sort of trauma in their lives, whether that's from their own childhood or through
00:35their experiences that they've come across in their life. So Solihull approach is based
00:41around three things, containment, reciprocity and behaviour changes. So if we can contain
00:46the women in terms of support, all sort of holistic approach really that we put in for
00:51the women.
00:52So it's fantastic that this exists actually, because the data shows us how important attachment
00:59and bonding is for the social and emotional development for very young babies, and the
01:04fact that you're able to do this right from the moment you've been pre-birth.
01:09Yes, absolutely. And it's been with caregivers, but their wider family as well I'm sure.
01:13Lisa's talked to you about our community experiences which are very much part of that process as
01:17well.
01:18And it's great that you're looking at the mother's wellbeing alongside it, because
01:23actually, whilst it's important to look at the baby's needs and focus on the baby
01:29actually, for that baby the best thing is to have a mother who is also equally well
01:36supported, particularly around their wellbeing and their own emotional needs, especially
01:40if they've experienced trauma.
01:41Yes, absolutely.
01:43How they're caring for their children, what their bonding's like, and identifying
01:47sort of where their needs need to be met and what kind of support that they need. Some
01:52of these mums are first-time, what's needed for them, so we're using those tools.
01:57And do you think some of this work, do you think more could be done in the communities
02:01before it reaches crisis point for a lot of these women?
02:04I think a lot, yes.
02:06Because a lot of these are skills and needs that women do need, and I always feel it's
02:13so frustrating actually that it gets to the point where they have to go into it. And you
02:17can see, because it's a defined number of women, you can see them from pregnancy through
02:24to even just the two years. Here you can see and monitor and manage the outcomes here,
02:32and you know it works.
02:33Yes, absolutely.
02:35That knowledge onto their children, and the course has been so well-received by women
02:40on this unit.
02:41Yes.
02:42Because for me as a child, it was so normalised.
02:45It was so normalised, yes.
02:46So, yes, it's a fantastic course.
02:49And that's the thing, so many women come in here vulnerable, having experienced their
02:54own vulnerable childhoods as well, so actually they won't necessarily understand their own
02:58acute needs, and actually being able to meet those, as well as supporting their babies
03:03in the same environment.
03:04Break the cycle.
03:05Yes.
03:06So it would normally be myself and Lisa that go out and make sure they've got everything
03:11they need.
03:12We make sure the year's positive as well.
03:13Yes.
03:14The impact, because we know these children are leaving us in such a stronger place.
03:17Yes.
03:18Because they've got such that intense support, you know, the nursery.
03:20Lisa will have kind of shown you.
03:24It's something that I did when I was in London for a day, and we used that.
03:27So hence the need.
03:28Yes.
03:29These spaces and, yes, communities.
03:31The lovely ladies that actually wrote it, did the work as well, the ladies in prison.
03:37So the ladies in prison, it's the same course, but it's, yeah.
03:41Fantastic.
03:42Good.
03:44Thank you very much.
03:45Very nice meeting you.
03:46Well done.
03:47Lisa will introduce you to our sorry class of residents as well.
03:51Thank you very much.
03:53Come on, ladies.
03:54Hello.
03:55Hi.
03:57So the skills that you learn in here are fantastic.
04:01They are for any parent, whether you're going to be in custody or not.
04:04Yes.
04:05For any parent.
04:06So, yeah.
04:07We're both first-time mums, aren't we?
04:08Yeah.
04:09And we've done it this way, not the best way.
04:10No.
04:11I'm at 42.
04:12Who does that?
04:13Yeah.
04:14We got the most out of it that we could.
04:17Obviously, made silly decisions, ended up in this position, but there's so much that
04:24we've done whilst being on the unit that I wouldn't necessarily get access to.
04:28Yeah.
04:29So this hadn't happened.
04:30That's my point.
04:31Yes.
04:32It shouldn't take a percentage.
04:33No.
04:34No access.
04:35Exactly.
04:36Like every week, we used to have tiny talk sessions.
04:38Amazing.
04:39That we'd have in the nursery.
04:40So you've met my little boy, Noah, in the nursery.
04:43Oh, okay.
04:44Yes, yes.
04:45And Amira.
04:46Amira, yes.
04:47Yeah.
04:48She loved the little bag of puppets.
04:49Oh, yes.
04:50She loves puppets.
04:51So again, a tiny talk.
04:52So Action for Children funded that.
04:53So it's an expense, of course.
04:54It costs time to really build that bond.
04:55Yeah.
04:56We wouldn't have had that time.
04:57Obviously, we're taking all the positives here, but we wouldn't have had that time if
04:58not.
04:59And things like all the classes that...
05:00In a sort of safe and contained environment to then going back into home life, community
05:01life, juggling work.
05:02And then also the emotional needs of yourself.
05:03And from week to week, it's just so much.
05:04Yeah.
05:05It's just so much.
05:06Yeah.
05:07Yeah.
05:08Yeah.
05:09Yeah.
05:10Yeah.
05:11Yeah.
05:12Yeah.
05:13Yeah.
05:14Yeah.
05:15Yeah.
05:16Yeah.
05:17Yeah.
05:18Yeah.
05:19Yeah.
05:20And also the emotional needs of all of yourself.
05:21From week...
05:22I think she was 12 weeks old, I went to work as a mentor within the prison.
05:25So she's in a nursery, so you've got that support network.
05:28When it come to weaning, I was like, oh, what am I doing?
05:30Where is Wendy?
05:31So you know, you need to help support referrals to dentists, doctors, that type of thing,
05:35all done before you go.
05:38So actually, that eases the pressure.
05:40Yeah.
05:41Sorry, sorry.
05:42I only left six weeks ago, so I'm just getting to...
05:46And what more do you think could be done to support women either back in the communities that you come from but also from the
05:55from
05:56the experienced women who've been through prison and prison, is there anything you think more could be done?
06:03It'd be nice to have these units in the community really
06:06I mean if you could literally take the MBU out of the prison environment
06:11Put it in the community, and it's still carry on have the same function probably better
06:17You know like you don't actually feel like you're in a prison when you're in this little bit until you look outside
06:24Yeah, see everything, but it's hard one because we recognize that there's you think it's something that would be a massive positive thing to happen
06:31Because you I've got to think about all of the extended relationship
06:35So these guys have to go above and beyond because I lived abroad before I came to custody
06:39So Amir's father is still abroad, so we have to navigate and challenge
07:09He worked very closely
07:39You