Los incendios forestales en la Patagonia argentina, especialmente en El Bolsón, han recrudecido desde su inicio el 31 de enero. A pesar de una leve lluvia reciente, las condiciones climáticas adversas complican la situación. Con miles de hectáreas afectadas y mil personas evacuadas, los esfuerzos se centran en evitar que el fuego alcance áreas urbanas. La investigación apunta a causas intencionales y descuidos humanos como posibles detonantes.
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00:00there are in all of Argentina, especially in Patagonia,
00:02because detainees have already been discovered who are intentional or who were intentional.
00:05Yes, absolutely.
00:07Well, there are some detainees who had to be released due to lack of forceful evidence
00:11and a delayed person, but well, the main concern is centered, of course,
00:16in the Bolsón area, the fires that began there on January 31
00:21and that have worsened in recent days.
00:24There was a small rain that brought some relief in the afternoon yesterday,
00:28but well, the weather conditions are not good, the forecast for what is coming
00:33and the climate is the protagonist, unfortunately not in this situation.
00:37The most worrying thing, well, of course, in addition to the thousands of hectares
00:42totally damaged by the fire, is that it is approaching urban areas.
00:46There are already a thousand people who had to be evacuated
00:49and evacuation is being recommended to many more residents of the area.
00:53It is really very tremendous.
00:55There are, well, hundreds of brigadists who are fighting against the flames,
00:59but well, we see the images, they are impressive and very difficult to fight.
01:04They are putting all the means at their disposal,
01:08but well, it is not enough to finish.
01:10Paula and the resources, the lack of resources.
01:12It always happens to the volunteer firefighters.
01:15A singer, Thiago P.Z.K., donated a lot of money
01:20so that they could buy everything that has to do with
01:25firefighting elements and also the suits, which are very expensive
01:29and that there really was a shortage.
01:32In other words, it is not only the neighbors who are going out to put out the flames,
01:35but now, well, some volunteer firefighter
01:39will at least be able to attack these flames.
01:43Well, they were saying,
01:46the lieutenant of the area also said that
01:50there will be three generations that will no longer be able to
01:54know this natural beauty of the bag,
01:57because at least to be able to recover, it will take more or less all that time.
02:03This is an old discussion also about the resources to combat fires,
02:07but it is also true, said Paula Trapani,
02:09climate plays, bad intention plays
02:13and you also have to say, as we say one thing, another, right?
02:15Just a few days ago, Los Angeles was burned.
02:18What should remain in Los Angeles are resources.
02:20That is to say, when nature ignites a fire of this magnitude,
02:24it is very difficult to contain.
02:26Yes, yes, you were talking about intentionality,
02:28which is good, it is believed that the focus began precisely for that,
02:31but of course, the climate does not help.
02:32Global warming, obviously,
02:34from what we are seeing in different areas of the planet,
02:37is also playing in the number of fires that are taking place.
02:42Lately, you were talking about California, of course,
02:44well, and all this and in other areas of the country there are also fires.
02:50And I tell you that in all issues,
02:51in football we did not want to put Winokur,
02:53but even in fires, politics falls, right?
02:56It always falls there, or not?
02:58Yes, the reality is that in this issue there is no ...
03:00This is like the roulette, you put the chip and you will always win,
03:02politics enters all the games.
03:04In this issue, there are no major conflicts,
03:07because there was a lot of agreement between the different governors
03:10and the national government to put all the resources at their disposal,
03:13even the province of Buenos Aires bringing resources to Patagonia.
03:17Yesterday, the Minister of the Interior and Chief of Staff Guillermo Francos tweeted
03:21and commented a little on what is the management that is being done from the nation.
03:25The National Fire Management Service was activated,
03:28there are nine planes working,
03:29ten helicopters, four autobombs, five pickups.
03:3261 firefighters from the National Fire Management Service were sent,
03:36plus 15 from the Federal Police.
03:41And in addition to that, there are the reinforcements that there are from the different provinces,
03:45not only from the affected provinces, but from other provinces
03:48that sent security forces, firefighters and resources to try to put out the fire.
03:54At least, while the fire is on, there are no political crosses,
04:00and that is always a good sign.
04:01Wait for it to go out, that the flame is born on the ashes.
04:04Where the fire does not go out is in the investigation regarding this,
04:08because Paula said that there are six people who were arrested and then released,
04:13and the warrant judge, what is now, well, somehow starting,
04:18are, well, questions to the investigation.
04:20How can it be that, so far, there are no people
04:24delayed, at least, arrested, investigated by these fires?
04:29But the situation did not exist, because, honestly, I tell you,
04:32they found a kind of assembly, of spills,
04:38as if the fires were ready to be started,
04:40but they had not started them.
04:42On social networks they showed them as saying,
04:44look, this is clearly intentional, but if you set it up and did not set it on fire,
04:48it catches my attention, right?
04:50Well, this is part of the investigation that you bring, and it is the punctual,
04:54but there is no evidence, and without evidence, one,
04:56no matter how much one wants to have the responsible arrested,
04:59if there are, obviously, if there is no evidence, they have to release them.
05:03In other words, the judge has a few days, obviously,
05:06to decide the procedural situation,
05:08and has determined directly that they are not related,
05:11these last people, at least, the investigation continues.
05:13But let's go directly to the Bolsón,
05:15let's talk to those who are fighting in the place.
05:18Juan Carlos Martínez is the chief of firefighters of the Bolsón,
05:22and he is there, where this situation is happening,
05:25that we are commenting.
05:26How are you doing, Martínez? Good morning, thank you for attending us.
05:35Martínez, do you hear me?
05:38We are having a problem to talk to him,
05:43but no one better than him to tell us what is happening,
05:46or at least what resources are being used at this moment,
05:49and what is the situation.
05:50I was just saying, Paula Trapani, the climate is clearly at stake.
05:55I wanted to contribute something, right?
05:58Because we were talking about political issues,
06:00and yesterday, I was telling you, Guillermo Franco tweeted,
06:03and he says, many of these fires are caused by intentional action
06:07but because of human negligence, which further complexes his control.
06:11Some of his authors have been arrested and put at the disposal of justice.
06:15We continue to advance in the necessary intelligence work
06:18to identify those responsible and prevent these actions.
06:21That is, from the national government,
06:23if you look, what they are saying is, this is intentional.
06:28It is not coincidental, also, that a national government
06:31that usually relativizes the idea of climate change,
06:35insists that these fires are intentional.
06:38This, beyond any political reading, whether they are or are not,
06:42but the intentionality of the government is clear,
06:45to quickly say, this was human.
06:48Well, in Argentina today, everything is politicized, absolutely everything.
06:51We said it at the beginning, from the escape of prisoners to the fires, right?
06:55And football, if you want.
06:56We didn't get into football because it was no longer possible to put politics in everything,
07:00but it's there, and we can't avoid it.
07:02Everything is politicized, obviously, always, not only in Argentina, but in the world.
07:05Politics is what manages the threads of certain situations.
07:11And also, if you think about what a national government is,
07:13it manages the enormous resources that the state has at the economic level,
07:18and obviously that is always a reason for a fight.
07:20Now, if Martínez is listening to us in El Bolsón, how is he doing? Good morning.
07:24How are you? Very good morning, very good morning to you and to the whole audience.
07:28Thank you for giving us this moment,
07:30because I know that you are doing a well-deserved job that takes you many hours,
07:33and that these five minutes are important for us.
07:36What is the situation at this time?
07:39No, thank you very much for allowing us to report,
07:43and you are part of what we need to spread the situation that we are living.
07:48Actually, last Thursday, ten days ago,
07:52we are living a difficult, very complicated situation.
07:56Yesterday was one of those difficult days.
07:59We had a little water this morning, around one in the morning,
08:03it started to rain a little, but it is very little, it is not enough for what we need,
08:07but at least it cools the area a little and gives us a little peace.
08:11And we believe that from this moment on, we should start to have some advantages,
08:15but today, yesterday was the most difficult day we had,
08:19and the forecast of the time changed us and it happened to us for today,
08:23without making it easy for us yesterday,
08:25that is, another day of uncertainty and difficult situation to solve is extended,
08:31which is what is happening to us during all these days, right?
08:33We are not being able to put out the fire, which is our goal.
08:36Do you have enough resources or is the size of the fire too large?
08:42It could be said that we have human resources, we have economic resources,
08:47but the size of the fire is too large,
08:49and it is very difficult to put out when a fire takes on these dimensions.
08:54And this feature, because the winds help the area where you have it dominated,
08:59in a few hours, to revive and generate two or three heads of fire,
09:03and what is happening is the following, it has burned a lot upwards,
09:07but the wind turns, it goes down and starts to burn towards the populated areas,
09:12which yesterday again, we had a large number of evacuees,
09:16preventive and non-preventive, because the situation was really worrying.
09:23And now, again, we are in this situation, we are going to extend the day,
09:27we are working with all our efforts from different blocks of the province of Rio Negro,
09:33northeast of Chubut, we have all the deployment we can do,
09:36we have the human and economic means, but we are not achieving the goal.
09:41Juan Carlos, are there populated areas that are threatened at this time?
09:47Will there be more evacuees?
09:49Sometimes this situation is also difficult for people who do not want to leave their homes,
09:52because they are afraid of being robbed, for example, when they are not in their homes.
09:58Indeed, it is normal that people do not want to leave their homes,
10:02that always happens, normally 70-80% when there is an evacuation order, it is done quickly,
10:09but there is a small percentage that stays, cooling down, resisting and trying to pass it
10:15and looking for a refuge for themselves if the fire advances.
10:18Normally, they achieve that and achieve the goal, they manage to save and preserve their homes,
10:23in many cases, by staying, because what is the problem?
10:28That the fire is advancing, it generates a fire near your house,
10:31if no one turns it off, that fire gets bigger and in a little while there is nothing left,
10:35if there is someone turning it off, that can be achieved.
10:38But for that, some conditions have to be met, that the house is clean,
10:41clean of wood, it is close to the house and with some nearby parking,
10:47and also with some possibility of moisturizing the area and making it more preservable.
10:54And what is the problem in recent years?
10:56A lot has been built in Tomas and not Tomas, in the Bolsot,
11:01and it has advanced over the forest, so there are many buildings that are
11:05inside the forest and that is very difficult to defend.
11:10Now, from your experience, this is a specific question that may not have the answer,
11:14but I have to do it.
11:15Does your experience tell you, Martínez, that these fires are intentional
11:20or that the climate is playing a bad game?
11:24Both things, both things are enhanced.
11:30What I can tell you is that of every ten fires, eight are generated by man.
11:35And from there we can discuss whether they are intentional or not,
11:37because some will have a vision and others will not.
11:40But in short, if you light a fire that generates X amount of damage to the flora,
11:46to the fauna, to the environment, to the housing, to the human being, to the ecosystem,
11:50to this wonderful landscape that we have here, the damage is the same.
11:54It's okay to have a greater penalty if it's intentional,
11:58but if not, the damage you are generating is the same.
12:01And there are people who leave their lives, our firefighters are volunteers,
12:05they work many hours a day, they stop taking the resources to their homes, to their families,
12:13they stop attending to them, they leave everything, their homes, their work, to put out the fire.
12:18So, really, the situation is very complicated.
12:22And also, this is conjugated, when you light it, you know what day you have to light it,
12:28because you know the situation, you know the climate,
12:31and you know which day generates more damage or which day has more possibility of the fire spreading.
12:36So, there you can draw your own conclusions and make them understand that they are intentional.
12:42That would be the feature.
12:44Juan Carlos, is there a concrete assessment of how many hectares were affected by the fire?
12:50And what is the prognosis? If this continues like this, how many more will be affected?
12:56Let's see, we had, in the last fire, which started the day before, 10 days ago,
13:03up to now, there are more than 3,000 hectares,
13:06more than 100 houses, much more than 100 houses, closer to 200 than 100,
13:12industries, many things were burned.
13:15And behind that, we put a number and a cold number, there are 3,000 hectares and 200 houses.
13:21There are families, there are homes, there are memories, there are things that were left complete,
13:25that were left, pieces of history that will never be recovered from that family.
13:29It is heartbreaking to listen to the family when they have to leave their home,
13:32because if not, the fire passes over them, including them, of the situations they live in.
13:38It is quantitative, the damage that has been generated so far.
13:43That is why it is inexplicable and incomprehensible that they are intentional,
13:49because to whom they generate problems is to the community,
13:53it is to those who live, to those who work, to those who defend,
13:56to those who fight day by day to take the bread home.
14:00So it is not very understandable, but well,
14:04someone will know or will not know what the intentions are, because it is done.
14:10Yes, you were saying that 80%, 8 out of 10 of the fires,
14:14cause the man intentionally or accidentally.
14:19The temptation to make a bonfire is always there,
14:22the temptation to make a roast meat in the place is always there,
14:25and not turning off this fire can generate a disaster like the one we are seeing.
14:31Indeed, thinking about it in a very good way and thinking about what escaped is like that.
14:36Now, many people are told, you can't turn on the fire, you can't turn on the fire,
14:40and on top of that, they get angry when someone is going to turn off the fire,
14:43because the lamb was raw, and that is also really incomprehensible.
14:47If you can't, and they said it three times,
14:51what I see is that individual rights,
14:57or rights, are only rights, there are few obligations,
15:00and I always say that if we have obligations, obligations, obligations,
15:04there our rights appear on their own, they flow.
15:09But if we only have rights and not obligations,
15:12and we have what we have today,
15:14that we are not making an ecological, environmental disaster,
15:20and if we take it to another parallelism of life, exactly the same thing happens to us.
15:24Martínez, thank you for having attended us, we send you a hug, have an excellent day.