En un emotivo acto de despedida, la familia de Paloma, una adolescente asesinada junto a su novio Josué, niega las acusaciones de estar involucrados en el crimen. La pareja fue encontrada muerta en un lugar conocido por ser refugio de delincuentes. Los padres exigen que se retracten las falsas afirmaciones sobre el embarazo de Paloma y piden justicia por la pérdida de sus hijos.
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00:00with Paloma and Josué.
00:04This is the image that concludes the tragic story
00:09of this couple, of very young boys.
00:13Paloma's family decided to put the drawer
00:17with the little girl's body at the door of the house.
00:21The family went out to make a very spiritual farewell.
00:24No, I didn't expect this. I understand that I didn't expect this.
00:29That this would happen to my daughter.
00:31And they are asking me to be the suspect of killing my daughter.
00:37They are truants.
00:40Such a terrifying event, like the one of Paloma and Josué,
00:43two 16 and 14-year-old boys, children of the neighborhood.
00:50Well, obviously, there is anger, the quarrel and the claim.
00:56My son kindly offered the computer,
01:00where my son shared the computer with Paloma,
01:04and the computer was chatted with Josué.
01:08We saw it. We saw the conversations.
01:11There is nothing strange there.
01:15Specifically, a computer of Paloma's father,
01:18as well as a phone, a phone that is the property
01:22of the father of the young woman murdered.
01:25What are the reasons that are handled,
01:28or at least that are handled by the investigators above the table?
01:31The first hypothesis, Mariano, was that of the robbery,
01:34because the backpack disappeared.
01:37The other hypothesis has to do with something that the boys
01:44would have seen on that path they made from their house,
01:47passing through the train tracks, below the bridge,
01:50and arriving at the place where they were finally murdered.
01:55At the time of the finding, Paloma is upside down,
01:59and next to him, but really next to him, Josué is upside down.
02:04Yes, they don't even separate him by 30 centimeters.
02:07Put him a meter, less than a meter.
02:10And the other hypothesis, the one that arouses even more questions,
02:14has to do with the possibility that both boys
02:18were summoned by someone to that place.
02:22Who, in any case, is so terrible in the mind of the murderer
02:25to wait for two boys and kill them with stone?
02:39All in one, there we heard in the report to Marcelo Padovani
02:43with several hypotheses about this case,
02:46about this unfortunate death of Paloma, of Josué,
02:51the young boys who had their whole lives ahead of them.
02:54There is a twist now in the case.
02:56In a little while we will be talking to Paloma's father,
03:00who comes here live to the DA24 studios,
03:05and with Paloma's father's lawyer.
03:08But first I want to ask you, Pablito,
03:10what is the twist that is taking place in this case?
03:13What is being asked for? What is being seen?
03:15We heard from Marcelo about several hypotheses.
03:18What do you have now as last information?
03:21Let's see, first I want to tell you that we were able to say hello to Omar.
03:25Yes.
03:26We had seen him, we had talked about him,
03:32but we had never seen each other personally.
03:35He tells us that he is strong, that he is fine, that he is strong.
03:38I see him strong.
03:39We are going to get into this later,
03:42because we also have Greco to analyze a little
03:45what is the internal matter, the internal procession.
03:47But let's go quickly to the twist in the case.
03:51What is happening?
03:52It is being requested that the Bonaerense be removed from the case.
03:58From the police of the province of Buenos Aires,
04:03different versions emerged,
04:08to which, in principle, they were presumed
04:11that it could be the attack of some marginals
04:14towards the boys.
04:15But there is something that does not end up closing
04:20in this idea of that attack.
04:23You have another lawyer who is telling you,
04:25they could have seen something.
04:27They think not, that it did not happen for that.
04:29Who do they think not?
04:30Omar, his lawyer, that is, the Paloma family.
04:34At this point, I think the waters are divided between the two families.
04:39And then I want to ask him
04:42about the photograph of the raped girl,
04:45the first time he had seen her.
04:46I had not seen the image.
04:48I want to ask you if you suspect
04:52of any police connivance
04:55with the people who were in this place,
04:58living,
04:59and who could lead the boys to death.
05:01The Bonaerense,
05:04it must be clarified that it is part of the Bonaerense.
05:06I imagine we are talking about the Bonaerense
05:09that acts on the radio,
05:11in Florencio Varela.
05:41Cases, complaints and others.
05:44It has a particularity, Florencio Varela,
05:45which is that when you are in the center of attention,
05:52you move just ten blocks to one side.
05:54You are already in what we call full urban.
05:58You make ten blocks to the west,
06:01fifteen, put twenty blocks.
06:03It starts with a kind of field,
06:06people who do not have services,
06:08there are no cloaks,
06:09people hanging from the light.
06:11There is a marginal issue
06:12that is not far from the center of Florencio Varela.
06:15Florencio Varela is large,
06:17a place where a lot of things have happened,
06:20but this case specifically
06:22leads us to walk a little
06:24and I want you to describe it to me,
06:27Pablito.
06:28How many blocks are we from the center
06:31where this event happened,
06:33once these two boys crossed the road?
06:35Yes, look,
06:37the boys made practically twenty-five blocks walking,
06:40something that draws attention.
06:42In a straight line, for example,
06:43there are ten blocks to the field,
06:45but they end up being twenty-five,
06:47the ones they made,
06:48and it is one of the ideas of how they go there,
06:51why that place.
06:53It is, as you say,
06:55very close to the urban area, let's call it.
06:59Everything else,
07:01everything else, and I have also traveled,
07:03are fields, garbage dumps,
07:06situations that offer space,
07:09but of course for the marginal life.
07:13I'll tell you an advance,
07:15on Monday there will be a new search
07:18by the Josué family
07:21in the crime scene,
07:23but of course,
07:24part of that scene was burned,
07:26by whom?
07:27Why did they burn the scene with naphtha?
07:30Pablo.
07:30Who?
07:31Andy.
07:32Pablo Gonza,
07:34the bodies appeared at just four or five blocks
07:36from the fourth forest police station.
07:38The police station is just there,
07:39as Gonza said a little while ago.
07:41Yes, yes, it is very close and very far at the same time,
07:45because of how it changes,
07:46precisely the physiognomy of the landscape.
07:49Let's see, I go back there.
07:52They burned the place with naphtha.
07:56Yes.
07:56Yes?
07:57Who? How? When?
07:59Pay attention to the obligatory journalistic questions
08:01that we have to ask.
08:02Yes, I can tell you when.
08:03Let's see.
08:03At the beginning.
08:04Yes.
08:04When?
08:06The fire started in the middle of the night,
08:10after the police took the bodies
08:14and lifted the experts,
08:17the scientific police in this place.
08:19So, after the bodies were lifted?
08:21Yes.
08:21But the striking thing about this
08:23is that what is burned is all around the scene,
08:27not the scene.
08:28And what did they find?
08:29Where?
08:30Under the bridge?
08:31Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.
08:33What is burned is all around the scene, not the scene.
08:36Exactly.
08:37Look at the image.
08:38When you see the image,
08:40there you see it.
08:42Yes.
08:42Look, it's all burned.
08:44Yes.
08:44This was running.
08:46They found some bottles of naphtha
08:50under the bridge,
08:51a few meters from where the boys were found.
08:55And the question we ask ourselves is,
08:56why burn everything around?
08:58Well, obviously.
08:59If you want to muddy the field,
09:02it is also strange that the scene is not burned.
09:04I mean, there is a tape.
09:07They could have done it.
09:08In fact, everyone stepped there.
09:09Well, beyond stepping on everyone,
09:12it takes me to the Nisman scene, basically.
09:16Yes.
09:16A lot of people in a place where
09:19the first thing to do is to delimit it.
09:22For what?
09:23So that they go finding evidence
09:25and clues that in the investigation
09:26obviously serve to see
09:28the steps, where they come from,
09:30where they are going.
09:31How many could have been in the place?
09:35If it was one person, if it was two.
09:38Yes.
09:38Who, in short, burns the surroundings
09:42and does not burn the scene itself.
09:44Obviously, because something had already been found,
09:47which were obviously the two bodies, right?
09:49Yes.
09:49There were versions.
09:50There I am going to show you the map.
09:52Yes.
09:52Let's go.
09:53Do I get closer?
09:54There it is.
09:55We see it here.
09:55This is the route that...
09:56Anna, stop, stop, stop.
09:57Stop, stop.
09:58This is the route that the boys took.
10:00It was all recorded in the municipality's camera.
10:03Notice, they leave Caligasta at 975
10:08and they walk practically in a straight line
10:10until they reach two blocks before
10:13Calchaquí Avenue, where they finally
10:14end up turning to the left.
10:18They do three, four more blocks.
10:21They take this place that will lead them
10:24to the Constancio Vigil diagonal,
10:28which is precisely where our production
10:32found a photograph where Josué
10:36was apparently with his father.
10:38Incredible.
10:39That photograph had been taken
10:42in Google Street View and it was recorded.
10:46And finally, they end up in this place.
10:51The question of rigor is,
10:52did they intentionally go to that place?
10:55Were they taken to that place
10:57once they entered the camping area?
10:59Okay.
11:00Exactly.
11:01That is not known.
11:02Okay.
11:03Thank you, Pablito.
11:04We are here, sitting.
11:06Thank you for coming with the father of Paloma,
11:08with Omar and with the lawyer of the father of Paloma.
11:10Are you the new lawyer?
11:12Was there another lawyer before or were you always you?
11:14No, the first lawyer.
11:15Okay, perfect.
11:15There was some information that said,
11:17hey, is the new lawyer or not?
11:19You were always the lawyer.
11:20Thank you for coming.
11:21We are with the Greek lawyer
11:23also here to analyze a little bit
11:25beyond the judicial issue,
11:27the human part of all this.
11:30First, I want to ask you how you are.
11:32You look, let's say, whole on the outside,
11:36but I imagine that the procession goes on inside
11:38since you found out that your daughter is no longer there.
11:41When I have to break, I break.
11:44Okay.
11:45I'm not made of stone.
11:46Okay, okay.
11:48First, obviously it is true that we accompany you in the pain
11:51and I imagine that the search for justice
11:53is also latent
11:55precisely because we are trying to elucidate
11:59through the information we have,
12:00through judicial sources,
12:02through information,
12:04what has really happened with Paloma and Josué.
12:09How are you?
12:11Hoping that we all do justice for Paloma
12:15and also, of course, for Josué,
12:17because after I saw all this,
12:23it caused me great sadness
12:25because being my daughter's boyfriend,
12:29I would have wanted to accompany them to the altar.
12:32Yes, yes, I can imagine, I can imagine.
12:34And that was denied to them.
12:38How was their life as a boyfriend, as boyfriends?
12:42What other groups did they go to?
12:46Do you have any suspicions now
12:49of any participation with people
12:52who had some suspicions
12:55about certain activities that you liked?
12:59No, no.
13:00In the case of my daughter, I can talk about her.
13:04We were always together as a family
13:06and the only moment that separated us
13:10was going to school number 63, high school.
13:13That's where she met Josué
13:17and then they met in the square in front of the school.
13:23I went there once, I dressed up
13:27and they were playing maca.
13:29Sure, like two teenagers.
13:31Everything they said,
13:33at this time, a lot of people in the media
13:35have to retract.
13:36Let's see, what?
13:38What did they say and what do they have to retract?
13:40That she was pregnant, they invented a lot of things.
13:42Can you say that your daughter
13:44had never had sexual relations?
13:45Never, never.
13:48Did she tell you this?
13:51She assimilated what is the advantage
13:53of staying virgin until the moment of marriage.
13:57She understood and I think Josué understood the same
14:02because there is something much higher in the person
14:05when it is achieved until, spiritually speaking,
14:09when it is achieved until the moment of marriage
14:12and then the consummation in the fact of being a virgin.
14:16That is glorious.
14:17To do it before, the relationship is unhealthy.
14:21I imagine you say this because it comes from a conception,
14:25an idea, a practice.
14:27What kind of religion or what kind of spiritual conception?
14:32Religions, in principle, were invented by men,
14:36all humanity.
14:37Each one with their own criteria and ideas.
14:41We ended up with, I don't know how many,
14:44thousands and thousands of different religions
14:45and organizations and so on.
14:47In which the Lord Jesus Christ, when he came to earth,
14:49he established his church, period.
14:51He established it, establishing more and more communities
14:57that were persecuted.
14:58You have that philosophy and it is good and respectable.
15:02Now, the question is, and I get a little bit
15:06from what Pablito was telling, right?
15:08Why do you think they walked to this place?
15:15If someone wants to speak calmly,
15:17the spiritual ground is very difficult to understand.
15:22Many people find it difficult to understand.
15:24Sometimes that's why they judge me badly too
15:26and say nonsense and I forgive them, no problem.
15:29One day we will be able to talk
15:32and explain a lot of things that they don't understand.
15:36Also, before being a minister of the Lord,
15:41giving myself to the service of God in that sense,
15:44I didn't understand a lot of things.
15:45I grabbed the Bible, I didn't understand,
15:48then I started to understand.
15:51So now I can talk about that.
15:54Yes, but beyond...
15:56And in that, that's why I tell you,
15:58it was easy for me to help my children
16:03and achieve communication with them.
16:06I was on the line and she didn't understand.
16:10And when she had the opportunity to have her first experiences
16:14in love, in love,
16:18she surely remembered everything I told her
16:21because only by seeing the images,
16:24when it is the last mass that goes under the bridge
16:29and they bend both to cross the tracks,
16:32it is evident that if they were,
16:35in my case, my daughter,
16:36if they had had a relationship or were going to have a relationship,
16:41they would not go with the joy, the simplicity of the moment.
16:46Because if you see, we all see,
16:48that they are happy, both of them.
16:50Ok, why?
16:51Because you say that at some point someone may have thought,
16:54I ask you too, if you can tell us,
16:56if it is there in the cause.
16:59Maybe they were going to the place for a moment of love,
17:05for, as they say in adolescence,
17:08we are going to have sex somewhere.
17:11Could that have been happening or not?
17:13Yes, look, the main hypothesis that we have
17:18from the file,
17:20is that teenagers were victims of a sexual attack
17:24committed by an opportunistic sexual homicide
17:29and that exerted a high power of violence,
17:33a high attack of violence on the victim's body.
17:35For a casual matter or because they were summoned
17:39to that place for that?
17:40No, no.
17:41We do not talk about assumptions or conjectures,
17:45but about the elements that are in the file
17:49and the evidence that arose in the crime scene.
17:54That is why we infer that they were victims of an attack.
17:57Opportunistic, why?
17:59I understand that they were...
18:01Sorry, sorry, because here you are touching
18:03an important detail.
18:05For the elements, you say, that are in the file.
18:08Beyond the fact that the crime scene,
18:10as Pablito said, was burned,
18:13not the scene specifically, but the surroundings.
18:17Yes, yes.
18:19The place where the crime took place was burned.
18:22The main scene of the crime was not,
18:24because it was taped,
18:26and because that part, the grass was very green.
18:30It was not burned.
18:31It was not burned because the other one was already dry.
18:33The other one was drier.
18:34The fire reached there, but it was not burned.
18:36So we understand,
18:39according to the position of Paloma's body
18:43and also of Josué,
18:44that there was a sexual attack.
18:47Perhaps the main crime
18:49could have been a robbery,
18:52but having the victim available,
18:55the attacker,
18:56being two minors, defenseless,
18:59because they were of context,
19:00they were skinny, boys,
19:03he sexually assaulted them.
19:05It could have been committed by one or two people.
19:08He sexually assaulted them?
19:09I want to make a point.
19:12What leads you to understand
19:14that there was a sexual assault
19:16or that that was the reason
19:18and that ended with the link?
19:20Are there signs?
19:21There are signs in the victim's body
19:23that show...
19:25Sorry, of the victim?
19:27I can specify...
19:28No, it doesn't matter.
19:29But he said something important.
19:32Yes.
19:33Of the victim or of the victims?
19:34No.
19:35Of Paloma.
19:37She was the one who was attacked.
19:39Okay, no, because you said
19:41the victims were attacked.
19:42No, it was just Paloma.
19:44Well...
19:45Well, and it is understood that Josué tried to defend.
19:48In fact, he has marks on his knees.
19:50Josué's murder could have come
19:53because he tried to defend him.
19:54Obviously, Josué's family
19:56said he was going to do everything for his girlfriend.
19:59Yes.
20:00And also as a strategy of the aggressor
20:02to eliminate the witness.
20:03Of course.
20:04It is what we hold.
20:06What happened.
20:07Sorry, Maníbal.
20:08Do you know what strikes me
20:09with this hypothesis that you have?
20:10That, well, you must have reasons
20:12to believe that it is so.
20:14When one sees the photograph
20:15in which the bodies were found,
20:18one observes that they are completely dressed
20:20and the boy has a...
20:22Under the waist of the pants
20:24by a drag that he has obviously had.
20:26Yes.
20:27But it is not observed...
20:28I mean, how can there be a sexual abuse
20:30with the clothes on?
20:31That's what I don't quite understand, you know?
20:33One of the characteristics
20:35of sexual homicides
20:37is to cover the intimate parts
20:42of the victim who attacked.
20:44One of the characteristics
20:45of sadistic sexual homicides
20:47is that the body of Paloma
20:51was upside down
20:53and she did not die upside down.
20:55According to the elements of the autopsy,
20:58in my opinion, she was murdered
21:01when she was upside down.
21:03Upside down.
21:04Upside down.
21:05Because she suffered all the aggressions
21:06on the face
21:07and on the side, let's say,
21:09of the head.
21:11And there is also another detail in the autopsy.
21:15She was murdered
21:17with the shirt up.
21:19Why?
21:20How do you find that out?
21:22Because there are signs on her back,
21:25right?
21:26Of remains of the floor
21:28that show that she was without the shirt.
21:31So it is one more element to take into account
21:34for the sexual attack.
21:35I understand that the main crime
21:37may have been the robbery.
21:39But excuse me,
21:40excuse me,
21:41excuse me for interrupting you,
21:42because you are telling it well,
21:43but I want to understand.
21:44Do you say that the autopsy
21:46indicates that there was sexual abuse?
21:50There are elements.
21:51There are elements that make you suspect
21:53that there may be
21:54and what the father saw, right?
21:56If you allow me, I will repeat everything.
21:58Maybe in the autopsy
21:59it was not possible to determine
22:01that the rape had been consumed.
22:03Why?
22:04Because of the state of the bodies.
22:05Tell us.
22:06But there were signs.
22:07He can tell you because he saw it.
22:09What did you see?
22:10Above all,
22:13above all,
22:14those who have seen the photos and videos,
22:16I saw the body.
22:17Yes, without a doubt.
22:18And besides, you are the father.
22:19And what I did,
22:20I barely touched it a little bit like that,
22:22and I hope that never,
22:23because I wanted to touch
22:24a little bit of my daughter's skin.
22:30I asked the forensicist
22:32to please see that bruise
22:35that he had first
22:37between the left leg
22:39and near the genital part
22:42of my daughter
22:43and the other leg
22:44also had another bruise similar
22:46that I was standing like this.
22:48I didn't see it very well,
22:49but I saw a sector.
22:51Did you see the bruise?
22:52The two bruises, a little bit.
22:53They are typical in cases of abuse.
22:55Yes.
22:56They are typical.
22:57To exert force.
22:58To exert force.
22:59It is noticeable that it is with the hands.
23:01That provoked, well, first.
23:03Then, when I saw that,
23:05I said,
23:06please, doctor,
23:07can you raise my shirt a little?
23:09Up.
23:10Yes, yes, yes, sir.
23:11And he raised the shirt,
23:13and what he raised was the left breast.
23:16Left.
23:17What I saw there was that everything was bruised
23:21and I have to say it with a lot of pain,
23:24but the breast was erect.
23:29It happens to women when they are excited.
23:31They are excited.
23:33The other, when I saw that,
23:36this one was a little bit raised,
23:40I saw that it was practically in the same condition,
23:43so that the two breasts,
23:45the rest of the body was not so bruised
23:48the moment I saw it.
23:50But you saw bruises on your daughter's body,
23:53which would indicate what they indicate.
23:55The sexual part.
23:56The sexual abuse in the physical part.
23:59Exactly.
24:00That is, it is not a bloodshed,
24:02as an expert explained.
24:04There is no tear,
24:05there is no such thing,
24:06it has not been consumed.
24:08It has not been consumed, in any case,
24:10the abuse that you believe you have seen,
24:12at least in these cases.
24:13What I saw, I suppose,
24:15that's why I went to the police station
24:17and tried to fix this.
24:19Are you going to ask for another autopsy?
24:21Yes, a complete review.
24:23We ask for an autopsy,
24:25we are also going to ask for the lifting of new evidence
24:28in the place of the fact.
24:30We have a new eye inspection in place soon.
24:33And a detail that I wanted to clarify.
24:37When they pass the forest bridge below,
24:39you can see that they are walking quietly,
24:41voluntarily.
24:42Yes.
24:43Then, when they enter that path,
24:45that path to the right.
24:47Yes.
24:48And that path, according to ...
24:50There we are seeing it,
24:51there we are seeing the route.
24:52If you want, you can tell the route,
24:54while you are counting,
24:56obviously, with the information you have.
24:58Well, that's one of the images,
25:00when they go out,
25:01when they walk through the forest neighborhood.
25:03Yes.
25:04Right?
25:05It's one of ...
25:06What time was it?
25:07Look at the images.
25:08What time was it?
25:09There they have ...
25:1018.05.
25:1118.05.
25:12Yes.
25:13That car has nothing to do with it, right?
25:14Because it was thought that it could have something to do with it.
25:16That car that passes ...
25:1718.05.
25:18Do you pay attention to it?
25:19No, they don't pay attention to us.
25:21No.
25:22Perfect.
25:23They keep walking,
25:24you can see that he has a backpack,
25:25not a backpack.
25:26Yes, a backpack,
25:27something small.
25:28Something small.
25:29The boy sees that he takes out something,
25:31I don't know if the phone or the backpack,
25:33at that moment.
25:34They keep walking and then they go to this place,
25:36that I tell you,
25:37which is where, incredibly ...
25:38Yes.
25:39There is a photo of Josué,
25:40four months before,
25:41taken by Street View,
25:42Google Street View.
25:43Well, that's a detail that I missed ...
25:45Of the boy.
25:46Of the boy.
25:47Not of her.
25:48That's a detail ...
25:49No, not of her.
25:50Of Josué.
25:51Of Josué Soler.
25:52Of the boy,
25:53and I don't know if he's not with his dad.
25:54I don't know.
25:55We don't know.
25:56Well, that's a detail that I missed adding.
25:57We understand that Josué could have recognized one of the attackers.
26:00Very well.
26:01Why?
26:02Why?
26:04Because he had that place with his father.
26:06And what was that place?
26:07What is it?
26:08I'll tell you that place.
26:09Let's see ...
26:10I rescued ...
26:11Now, now.
26:12I talked to the neighbors of the place.
26:14Yes.
26:15That place was a criminal den.
26:18There lived people,
26:19more than five people always.
26:22Alcoholics, drug addicts,
26:25they did everything in that place.
26:28There were,
26:29of the ranches,
26:30those that are seen in the cameras,
26:31with the nylon bag,
26:32there were about five of those ranches.
26:34In that place.
26:35People in a street situation?
26:36No, not only people in a street situation.
26:38There were criminals.
26:40Why?
26:41Because they disarmed stolen objects,
26:43burned cables to remove copper.
26:45It was a criminal den.
26:46A hangman.
26:47A hangman who was aware of the police that existed there.
26:52Because you see in the image,
26:53when I saw Josué with his father,
26:55collecting the garbage,
26:56there was also a patrolman there in that place.
26:58Let's see if we can ...
26:59Guys, in production,
27:01there is more than Aníbal is talking about.
27:03We have this,
27:04but I don't want ...
27:05I'm listening and trying
27:06to make people understand from the other side,
27:08and I don't want to miss any detail.
27:10Because you say,
27:11Josué was seen in that place.
27:13Now you say,
27:14Josué was seen with his father.
27:15What economic situation did Josué have?
27:18Because now you are saying,
27:19Josué was seen with his father,
27:20burning cables ...
27:21No, no, no.
27:22With a cardboard collector.
27:24A cardboard collector,
27:25Josué's father is a worker,
27:29and the son helped him to do that job.
27:33There you see it in the image.
27:35Ok, it was a garbage collector ...
27:37That was in October 2024.
27:39A garbage collector with a cart,
27:41like a lot that we see,
27:43and Josué helped him.
27:45What is going on?
27:47We see these images,
27:48some, some.
27:50Well, they are criminals,
27:52not those who are there.
27:54They are workers.
27:55Yes, the ones you refer to,
27:57who burned cables,
27:59stole objects and disassembled them in that place.
28:01Of course.
28:02But this type of workers is mixed
28:04with those people in this place, right?
28:06Exactly.
28:07Ok.
28:08I understand the position of the Josué family,
28:10it is true.
28:12Not all the workers who collect the waste,
28:15who are criminals, no.
28:17Not at all.
28:18That's what I'm saying.
28:19We totally agree.
28:20But in that place,
28:21there were no people who collected cardboard.
28:24In that place there were criminals.
28:27I'll tell you a detail.
28:29In that place,
28:30a person had hanged himself.
28:32A month before.
28:33A month before.
28:34And we could see that the cable
28:36with which the person hanged himself
28:38was still in the place.
28:40It was there.
28:41It was there in the place.
28:42It is a black cable that still remains there.
28:45Now you touched the program.
28:46You are now with this,
28:47saying something very important.
28:49You say that the police of the province,
28:51that is, that of Florencio Varela,
28:53knew exactly what was happening in that place.
28:56Is that clear to you?
28:58For us it is clear because...
29:00And for you, what do you think?
29:02The same as you.
29:03Because according to the neighbors,
29:05several times the police took people out of there,
29:08went to see what they were doing,
29:10because many people lived there.
29:12Is it a public place?
29:13Who owns that place?
29:14That place is a detail.
29:17It is on the edge of the provincial route 37.
29:20All that is a place of viability.
29:23Is it provincial or national?
29:26Provincial.
29:27Provincial route 37.
29:28Provincial route.
29:29That is a viability of the province.
29:30That is a viability of the province.
29:32Can it be usurped?
29:33Yes.
29:34Can it be taken as a crime scene?
29:36Yes.
29:37To disarm stolen objects?
29:39Yes.
29:40So that...
29:41A large number of backpacks.
29:42In one way or another,
29:43if people who do not know the place get in,
29:46can they be attacked?
29:47Yes.
29:48For a robbery?
29:49Yes.
29:50Well.
29:51All yes.
29:52All yes, sorry.
29:53And without control or with controls?
29:55Lax.
29:56Knowing who is going to that place, right?
29:58Of course.
29:59I wanted to clarify that.
30:00When they pass the bridge of the forest below,
30:03then they go to the path on the right.
30:06But they did not go to that place.
30:10Because there are many who say they went to that place.
30:12No, that was a place of passage for them.
30:14Because that path goes to Lujan Street,
30:16which is behind.
30:18That path, if you follow with the camera,
30:21you will see that it comes out later,
30:23from the factory that is behind.
30:25And that goes to Lujan Street.
30:27And where were they going?
30:28Sorry, sorry.
30:29And where were they going?
30:30To the other neighborhood of the forest.
30:32They could go to the other neighborhood
30:34because they wanted to go to the square.
30:36Yes.
30:37So they were going by foot.
30:38They were hidden.
30:39By foot.
30:40By foot.
30:41Sorry, by foot.
30:42What time?
30:43Eighteen in the morning?
30:44Yes.
30:45Eighteen, yes.
30:46And they met these beasts that were there.
30:50Okay.
30:52Why?
30:53Because many things have been said.
30:55Yes.
30:56They went to the place for a sexual encounter.
30:58It was not at night.
31:00So there would be practically two teenagers.
31:02We have been teenagers.
31:03Some yes, others no.
31:04But you look for a little more ...
31:06Intimacy.
31:07Intimacy, let the sun fall.
31:09There were houses, friends.
31:11Your house was there.
31:12Josué's house was there.
31:13So it would be practically ruled out.
31:16No, that is ...
31:17We agree.
31:18They were walking.
31:19They were walking from one place to another.
31:21Yes.
31:22For a place that Josué knew because he worked with his father there.
31:26Of course.
31:27Correct.
31:28And that many people there, who live there, pass through that path.
31:32That is, it is commonplace.
31:33Of course, because when you pass the bridge of the forest, you have two alternatives.
31:37Either you go straight and go all the way around, or you go through that path that goes along the provincial route 36.
31:44It is shorter to go there.
31:45Shorter.
31:46Okay.
31:48Or you go down or you go down the bank of the route, which is dangerous too.
31:52Well, maybe it was less dangerous than there, right?
31:54Because ...
31:55Okay.
31:56Well, then they took that path and there they went.
31:59Another thing.
32:00We understand that the murder was committed in the place.
32:05Yes.
32:06With elements that were in the place.
32:09And there I return again to the opportunist aggressor.
32:14The aggressor who had not planned the murder, perhaps.
32:17Now, excuse me.
32:18Because he occupied elements that were there.
32:20Yes, what was there ...
32:21Because if we are going to talk about ...
32:23It was not planned, you say.
32:24Let's see ...
32:25Organized crime is as it says.
32:27It is organized.
32:28Yes.
32:29It does not leave a trace, it does not leave a trace.
32:30It does not use improvised elements of the place.
32:32I want to ask Omar.
32:34He tries to break the scene of the crime.
32:36Omar, how is it that if there is a certain number of people in that place that are already identified,
32:41there are still no detainees?
32:43Well.
32:44Good question.
32:45We have to ask the whole country.
32:47Also together with this.
32:50Because I think it is the place that was known, so well known.
32:55And it has been reviewed by the police authorities so that it could have a better being there.
33:04Before the grass was cut, it was a beautiful place to drink mate.
33:07It is a beautiful place.
33:08Of course.
33:10And I have visited it.
33:12Very nice.
33:14Then it was neglected.
33:16I was with Lieutenant Watson talking about this.
33:20And he told me what they did.
33:22They intimated the two owners several times.
33:25They fined them and everything to fix that.
33:27They never did anything.
33:29And they are about to present a project of expropriation in the province of Buenos Aires.
33:34Late, late.
33:35It's going to be late.
33:36Late.
33:37It should have been another time.
33:38Late, late.
33:39But I want to close.
33:41He had that concern for that place.
33:45That's why they did all that.
33:47Without defending him or anything.
33:48Because here they are all watching.
33:51Omar, I want to ask you a question.
33:53Because we have read in some newspapers, some portals.
33:58Your statements say that you forgive the murderers of Palombe and Rosuelo.
34:06But you don't exempt them from the guilt or the sentence they have to pay here in front of society.
34:16I wanted to ask Gonzalo.
34:18They talked about removing the police from Buenos Aires.
34:21Are they satisfied with the work so far?
34:23What's going to happen?
34:25Yes.
34:27They asked for the removal of the police from Buenos Aires in March.
34:31They have already taken greater action in the cause.
34:34To take all the procedural actions, the federal police.
34:38The homicide department and the federal police.
34:41Which are doing an excellent job so far in the file.
34:45And we believe and understand that it will continue like this.
34:48Now, with respect to the DDI of the province.
34:53We also, for my part, understand that they would have to continue the investigation.
35:00And do a joint work with the federal police.
35:02Because they are the ones who know the place.
35:04And they are the ones who know these people who frequented there.
35:07That, to date, have not yet been located.
35:11Well, let's hope they are located and this accelerates.
35:14We ask.
35:16Yesterday I presented a written statement to achieve the identification and whereabouts of some of the people.
35:23I don't want to forget the human part, Omar.
35:27Because you tell me, I break when I have to break.
35:31Here, the Greek Enunciado, unfortunately, these cases happen to us almost every weekend.
35:37Or every week, not in the Argentine Republic.
35:39He has not yet found the murderers of his daughter.
35:44Despite this, ignoring this, he forgives.
35:51How is that grief?
35:53Leaving aside the philosophical, religious conception, whatever we want to call it.
36:00From your scientific side, how can we analyze it?
36:04Let's see, I have heard many voices criticize Omar.
36:10Criticize because ...
36:12Put a little microphone, wait.
36:14I get up here.
36:18I have heard many voices criticize Omar.
36:22And I want to say something.
36:24Each person lives the duel as they can.
36:27With what they have, with what they believe.
36:30And when we talk about the spiritual world, not religion, but the process that Omar has from the spiritual.
36:35I would ask people to try to open their heads a little, to begin to understand.
36:41That faith is not just a matter of church.
36:46No.
36:47Spirituality also has to do with everyday life.
36:50The pain, each one processes it as they can.
36:53This is what I mean.
36:54That in the duels, each one processes it as they can.
36:56And on the other hand, and to finish, a little of what the doctor said.
37:00This crime had an epilogue and an end that is not improvised.
37:05The psychopath who kills, then treats the object as an object.
37:11He takes care of it, accommodates it.
37:12So I would say that you have to look for a not so basic mind.
37:19I would like to ask you something.
37:21In this minute, with this feeling that we all have.
37:26We want the Argentine people, all the people who are in pain right now, like me.
37:32Broken.
37:33Because they stop me on the street and hug me.
37:36We are with you.
37:38I invite you all next Saturday at 3 p.m. in Plaza de Mayo.
37:44Saturday the 15th.
37:47We all get together in Plaza de Mayo to cry.
37:50And there we see what we can express after we get rid of this terror in our hearts.
37:58All this evil.
38:00We invite all the churches, all the pastors.
38:03Let them all come.
38:04We have to get rid of all this evil that they have imposed on us.
38:10Perfect.
38:11Margarido, thank you.
38:13There we will be summoned.
38:15Thank you for coming.