In this edition, we digest the major announcement from the Commission this week to scale back on red tape and environmental legislation and we take the temperature of the European economy
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00:00Hello there and welcome to Brussels My Love, Euronews' weekly political chat show about
00:18the good and bad of EU policy making. I'm Maeve McMahon, thanks for watching. Coming
00:23up on the show, move over decarbonisation. The new buzzword around Brussels is deregulation.
00:31This week, the European Commission, known for its obsession with bureaucracy, promised
00:35an unprecedented reduction of red tape. The new plan, that aspires to simplify life for
00:41all those doing business in the EU, is music to the ears of Europe's car industry, struggling
00:46for survival. We ask if it can really do the trick. And good news for the European economy.
00:53Inflation is down and growth is up. Economists insist there's light at the end of the tunnel.
00:59So why are we all so broke? The price of a coffee or a beer has spiked out of control
01:05in most European cities lately, and most young people cannot afford to buy a house. With
01:10economic concerns, the main woe for us, and one in two of us spending 50% less on groceries,
01:17we're asking what is in store for our pockets this year in 2025?
01:22Let's bring in our panel this weekend. Farik Volkman, a policy analyst with the European
01:26Policy Centre. Maria Joao Rodrigues, president of the Foundation for European Progressive
01:32Studies, also known as FEPS. And Connor Allen, corporate lobbyist here in Brussels. Welcome.
01:37Thank you so much for coming and for joining us. But as usual, before we bring in your
01:42thoughts and views, let's just hear why 2025 has started very, very badly for Europe's
01:47car sector.
01:48A spectre is haunting Germany, the spectre of the country's all-important car industry
01:57going bust, and iconic Volkswagen, Mercedes and BMW vehicles being displayed in museums
02:04rather than in the streets of global markets.
02:092024 was the industry's annus horribilis, as shrinking sales and mass layoffs saw ripple
02:17effects among suppliers from Belgium to Hungary. If Germany tanks, the rest of Europe's car
02:25industry goes with it. So much for the spectre, but the clock is ticking for real. From sustainability
02:36challenges to shifting consumer demand, 2025 will be a decisive year for the industry's
02:43efforts to catch up. And then this. Chinese electric vehicles are predicted to almost
02:52triple their market share in the EU by 2027. Can Europe still turn on the turbo?
03:02So Connor Allen, let's start with you, as you are familiar with the sector. Do you think
03:06Europe's car sector can be saved?
03:08Can be saved, but it needs a lot of action and it needs a lot of action very quickly.
03:12So the key point of the issue is the 2035 internal combustion engine ban, because there
03:18is no consumer demand for electric vehicles at the moment. But what we have is the European
03:23Commission mandating that from 2035 onwards, it's only electric vehicles that will be sold.
03:29That's squeezed these car companies. They don't know what to do. They can't manufacture.
03:35They're ignoring the market, basically. And if you ignore the market, absolutely 100%.
03:40And that's, of course, what the EPP wants. That is the centre-right European People's
03:43Party, the party of Ursula von der Leyen, the Commission president. They're putting
03:46a lot of pressure on her. But then we're rolling back on the promises that we made.
03:51We are. And of course, to many minds, electric vehicles are the cars of the future. And there's
03:58really sort of a situation of the egg in the hen here. How do you solve this? Because you
04:04need to roll out electric vehicles, but then you need the infrastructure to roll them out.
04:09You need purchasing subsidies to get people to buy them.
04:12And I don't think it's as simple as just blaming one specific EU regulation. I mean, it's also
04:16competition from China that means that our car industry is in the dire situation that
04:21it is.
04:22Look, I think this is the time to have an industrial plan to relaunch the car industry
04:27in Europe, such an important industry. And I think we should come with a very clear goal,
04:32which is to produce affordable electric vehicles for the middle class in Europe. Because for
04:39the time being, car industry in Europe was focusing on the high end of the market. This
04:45is not working. We really need to focus on the large majority of population. And this
04:50is exactly what the Chinese have done. And I think this is possible for Europe if we
04:56can come with a real industrial plan, with more innovation on batteries, on chips, on
05:02providing the infrastructure to support these new kind of cars.
05:07That's the problem, because if you talk to consumers all across Europe, they'll say we're
05:10not buying electric cars now for the reason that we can't charge it, and also because
05:14of the price. It's just really expensive. We can't afford it.
05:16Yes, exactly. But these are the two points to be tackled by the plan. And this is possible.
05:20But Norway, your home country, is reaching all the headlines when it comes to electric
05:25vehicles. With nine and ten, I understand, cars on the road in Norway being electric.
05:30What tips have you got for the rest of us?
05:32Really, charging infrastructure is a key point here. You can basically drive your car wherever
05:36in Norway, which is a very large country with a sparsely populated area. But you could still
05:42charge your car with superchargers wherever you go. There are also purchasing subsidies
05:47for consumers. And you can ride your e-car in the bus lane. You can have free access
05:54to ferries. There are a lot of different incentives you could use.
05:57Subsidies. That's a word that you don't like.
05:59No, absolutely not. And if we look at the case of Norway, where do these subsidies come
06:03from? It's from oil extraction in the North Sea. So, I mean, if we're going to say that
06:08these electric vehicles can be rolled out across the market without paying attention
06:13to the environment, well, why not let the Chinese products in? Why are we put huge tariffs
06:19on Chinese vehicles? Why are we scared of competition? The thing that will fix the European
06:23car industry is pressure and pressure from China that will force them to innovate and
06:31force them to up their game. And they haven't done that so far.
06:35I think it's about saving the crown jewel of our industry, which is the cars. You wanted
06:39to add a point there?
06:40Yeah, just to add, I don't disagree. Like we are talking about climate change here.
06:44We need huge changes in how we move around and how we do it. It does make sense to get
06:50a lot of cheap Chinese cars in. But as you say, there are a huge amount of jobs on the
06:55line here. And how do you get people on board if everybody can drive EV cars but don't have
06:59jobs?
07:00Well, that is indeed the question as well. For the Volkswagen, for example, it's shutting
07:03down three factories in Germany, laying off thousands of workers this year, saying it's
07:08in a very serious situation with profits dropping. BMW, Mercedes as well, feeling the effects
07:13of the reduction in profit margins because of China. So it's not at stake here.
07:17The solution is not just to delay the transition to an EV car. On the contrary, to move faster
07:24with re-skilling workers and on producing the kind of cars which are affordable for
07:29the middle class. The tariffs are there to protect car makers in Europe while the transition
07:35takes place. But this is not the real solution. The real solution is an industrial plan. And
07:41look, I was in China in December. In Beijing, half of the traffic is EVs. We can see by
07:49the green plates there. And the sky is blue again in Beijing, which was not the case.
07:55So this is quite an achievement. It's not a threat. This is an achievement. But we can
08:00do the same in Europe. We have the technology. We have the capacity, if you want. And the
08:06upcoming competitiveness compass, from my viewpoint, is a great opportunity.
08:12Just on that, because I want to say that the Commission's door is also open to listening
08:16to the sector. We see this week on Thursday, the Commission triggered this so-called social
08:21dialogue with the industry. What can that actually change?
08:24Well, I mean, I'm happy to see the Commission's listening to us because I lobbied the Commission
08:28over five years. And every time I was turned away and they didn't listen to us. And every
08:32prediction we made has now come true. But in fact, what can the Commission do? And Maria,
08:38you alluded to this. I think the state needs to take a step back here because the state
08:42has got us into this mess. What we actually need to do is take a step back. These are
08:46the biggest and most prestigious car manufacturers in the world. And are we saying that they
08:51can't compete on their own ends? We need to make sure that they're responsive to the consumer
08:56and responsive to the free market and not responsive to government subsidies or begging
09:00for tariffs or whatever state aid they can get.
09:03But I'm sorry, what do you mean by a set back? What do you mean by this? Is giving up producing
09:08EVs in Europe?
09:09Let them compete. Let them fight, Maria.
09:11Yeah, of course.
09:12Let's have Volkswagen competing with Great Wall and...
09:16That's my point. We have the competition capacity regarding the Chinese, if you want. If you
09:22move faster, we can have an affordable EV for the middle class. This should be our goal.
09:28This is possible.
09:29I agree.
09:30You should not give up on this.
09:31No, I agree totally. But let's not set abstract or arbitrary targets. Let the free market
09:40and let consumer demand guide this and not target set back.
09:43But consumers will come if you have affordable cars and if you have the charging infrastructure.
09:48These are the two conditions.
09:49And the way you get there will come.
09:50Competition.
09:51We're still a long way from that. Have you any faith in this social dialogue or is it
09:54too late to talk?
09:56I think it's starting to be too late and we have to face that we have also been out-competed
10:01by the Chinese. They are cheaper but they are also more technologically advanced. They
10:07are just preferred by a lot of consumers. So we have to face that Europe may not be
10:12up to the task or European producers at the moment to compete with the Chinese companies
10:17and they have done so not using only market signals. They have also used large-scale subsidies
10:23from the state.
10:24But they had industrial policy. Europe for a long was hesitating on having industrial
10:29policy. Now there is the recognition that we need to have industrial policy. Dragging
10:33report is about this. The competitive combat should be about this. Finally, we recognize
10:39that we need to have active industrial policy.
10:42And does the industry need to rethink as well how they make money? I mean, if you look at
10:46for example, here in Brussels, the Audi plant, it will close down on the 28th of February
10:51in the coffin, of course, for the sector, but some contemplating whether they should
10:54start manufacturing tractors, for example.
10:56Yeah. But let me add, there is now perhaps an opportunity coming from what is happening
11:01in the United States. Because the fact that President Trump announced that he wants somehow
11:06to give up the American Green Deal.
11:11The inflation.
11:12And you saw what he said during the inauguration speech. He said you can buy whatever the car
11:18you want. So, from my viewpoint, this can open an opportunity for European car makers
11:25to really to become competitive on EVs. Because this is more market for us.
11:32Would you agree with that?
11:34I, in some ways I do. And I think there is an opportunity there from what's happening
11:39in America. But I'll just very quickly like to touch on the point you made about changing
11:44the way you make money in the car industry. Because here again, European regulation is
11:48throttling things. If you look at BMW, for example, they sell digital services now. You
11:53have to buy a subscription to heat your seats. Or wouldn't it be great if we could actually
11:59process data in Europe and use that to reduce the cost of the vehicles? In fact, that's
12:04impossible compared to what they're doing in the United States. Because we have these
12:10three burdensome regulations, GDPR, Data Act and the AI Act. So, this is a good example
12:16of if the state takes a step back, if we re-look at some of these damaging regulations, we
12:21can help the car industry out.
12:23On this one, I'm sorry. Again, I don't agree. Because European people, they really appreciate
12:29digital transformation, but with some safeguards and some basic rules. Notably, the protection
12:35of their personal data. So, exactly, this can be a competitive advantage for a European
12:40electric vehicle if we build on a software which protects personal data. This can be
12:47a competitive distinction and advantage for European car makers.
12:54And meanwhile, another interesting point I was reading is the UK has overtaken Germany
12:58as the most important market for electric cars.
13:00It has. And yeah, in Germany, you can see there are really where the source of the problems
13:05are. And especially as you were speaking about a social dialogue, one way it is where it
13:10is actually pretty needed is just to ease the tension surrounding electric vehicles
13:15as well. You can see a lot of genuine hate against it in Germany, for instance, because
13:20they feel like the electric vehicles and the mandates for them is killing their industrial
13:25regions.
13:26That's very personal, isn't it? Don't touch my car, hands off my car. Well, we also wanted
13:30to bring in the perspective from the car industry to see, do they have any faith in this dialogue
13:35between the European Commission and the sector? So, we caught up with the director of the
13:39European Automobile Manufacturing Association, also known as ASIA. It's Sigrid de Vries.
13:44Take a listen.
13:45We would like to see action and not many more words because we have a lot of targets, but
13:51there is also a lot of friction. Now, these targets need to be implemented in reality.
13:55And here we see things not going very, very well. We need to do a transformation towards
14:01green mobility in a very short amount of time that we have put the vehicles on the market.
14:06So, we've done our job. But at the moment, the market is lagging behind. The burden is
14:12on the auto industry, not on any of the other actors. We need a reality check for the way
14:17decarbonisation is set up. This is a distinguishing factor from the US or China, where things
14:23are more simple and Europe needs to indeed get its act together on this core issue of
14:29regulation. Cut red tape is a very important item indeed.
14:32So, that's the director of ASIA, Sigrid de Vries, reacting to the proposals this week
14:37from the Commission and the beginning of this strategic dialogue. So, she talks about the
14:41need for a reality check, but it's hard, isn't it, to find that compromise?
14:45No, for sure. The whole EU agenda for years has been mainly imposing new regulations.
14:50So, what do you do then when the main demand, at least from industry, is to cut regulations?
14:54Of course, it's been that for a while, but yeah.
14:57And she talks about things being simpler in China and, of course, the US, where there's
15:01no focus really on reaching environmental targets like there has been here.
15:05Yeah, this is a big shift now. All of a sudden, the American Green Deal is being phased out
15:12in many, many areas, including car industry. And I think that for us is an opportunity
15:19because we can put our EVs in the larger plan for green transition. EVs should be part of
15:27a larger green mobility system where citizens are offered different possibilities, not only
15:33cars, can be public transportation, collective transportation, can be bikes, can be...
15:39Sounds idyllic, how to get there.
15:42But what would be really important is that people know that if they need a car close
15:49to their homes, they can use, they have it, which means to have this infrastructure. But
15:56if they don't need a car, they can go to another thing. So, we need to have a larger creative
16:01plan for mobility, green mobility in Europe. And this can create a lot of interesting jobs.
16:08And you talked about the American Green Deal being phased out, but there's a feeling in
16:12this town this week that the EU Green Deal is also being phased out, beginning with,
16:16of course, this competitive compass, as it's called, that was presented this Wednesday
16:20by the European Commission President van der Leyen. The plan is to simplify the regulatory
16:24environment, better coordinate policies at EU and national level, and reduce our dependencies
16:30on unreliable partners to make sure we are more secure. It feels like here, obviously,
16:36they're listening to the business and to industry, but it feels like we're also rolling
16:39back on a pile of legislation and financial reporting that companies would have been obliged
16:45to do under the Green Deal. What is your reaction to that, Varg?
16:49To start with, this call for cutting red tape is sort of one of the EU eternity projects.
16:55We've been talking about this forever, and it never seems to happen. So, one aspect is
16:59to see if it actually will result in something real this time. And as you say, the only proposal
17:04they've made so far is to cut or scale back very recent regulations on financial and climate
17:10reporting by businesses. So, it is really a sharp turn.
17:14This is the Corporate Sustainability Due Diligence Directive. We've had many discussions about
17:18it here on Brussels My Love, and we're hearing now it could indeed be rolled back on. But
17:22obviously, cutting red tape for you is music to your ears.
17:25Absolutely. And this CS3D, it's the worst regulation in the history of regulations,
17:30I think. These financial reporting directives have cost businesses millions and millions
17:37and millions, and they are part of the reason that we are so, so uncompetitive. You are
17:42completely right. Let's believe the Commission when we see the deregulation on the table.
17:48But they have to deliver, because at the moment, this is throttling the industry. And you go
17:52to the investment firms, and they're not even using the data that we're forced to report.
17:56The industry have been spending a lot of money as well, informing themselves on what
17:59this will mean and preparing for these steps. So, now if everything's rolled back, it's
18:02creating this confused environment.
18:04It's a subsidy for the big four consultancies. We just throw millions and millions at them
18:08and they'll tell us what to do.
18:09It's like we're taking one step forward, two step back. It's just, yeah. But obviously,
18:13Business Europe, who have a big stake as well, they put out their own plan this week. 68
18:17proposals to reduce the regulatory burden, and most focus was, of course, the environmental
18:22laws from the EU, things like tackling waste, product safety. So, it feels like we're putting
18:26all that to the side. Greens, of course, will be reacting, criticising a lot, but they're
18:30of course not doing very well politically.
18:32Look, I think we need to make a difference here between, it is true that sometimes we
18:37have too much regulatory burden. So, somehow we need to find a way to simplify this. And
18:42perhaps AI can help to do this. So, I'm just launching the idea. But on the other hand,
18:48sometimes we do need rules to ensure basic environmental and social quality. So, these
18:54are standards making part of our European model. And so, what is missing now, from my
18:59viewpoint, is that Europe is setting some of these basic standards. Sometimes it's leading
19:04in the world with these basic standards, which can bring a new quality of life and a new
19:09competitive advantage. But what is missing is our capacity to be really competitive in
19:15these areas. So, in the green solutions, in digital solutions. So, that's why innovation
19:21for me is the key word. And by the way, innovation is also at the top of the competitive compass,
19:28should be really at the top, because this is about providing better products, better
19:34services to make our life more sustainable. So, here Europe can take the competitive lead
19:41in the world.
19:42And of course, the reason Ursula von der Leyen, the Commission President, was presenting
19:45this is because she's been under a lot of pressure from business, also from capitals.
19:50We've seen France and Germany in the last couple of months calling for a reduction of
19:55the regulatory burden. And also, we need to counter the shocks of potential, what could
20:00happen in President Trump's administration, which could also hit us hard here in the EU.
20:05Yeah, there's really been a feeling that things are falling apart for the last half year.
20:10And I think this competitiveness compass really reflects that. There are a lot of
20:15new acts, strategies and different policies that are aimed at tackling key areas. For
20:21instance, they mentioned the auto industry, but there is a short supply of actual stuff
20:26there.
20:27And does this compass give us confidence that we're in safe hands here?
20:30No, let's believe it, mercy it. The compass is like a strategy or, you know, it's kind
20:35of a roadmap over the next five years. Five years? Think about what Trump's doing in America.
20:41If you like him or you hate him, he is going to boom America's economy. I think very few
20:46people disagree with that. And so after five years of more, let's talk about it, let's
20:51have a strategic dialogue, let's do a compass, we're going to be poor. Already, European
20:57citizens, I could do the same job in America for double the salary and half the taxes.
21:01Why should, why should I stay here? And many Europeans are thinking that. And after five
21:05more years of this, what are they going to be thinking?
21:07Look, wait a moment. Now that Trump's agenda is clear, I think we should also come with
21:12a clear European response. And for me, first of all, is we need to prevent a tariffs war
21:18because this will be lose-lose. This is first. Second, we need to move faster with our Green
21:24Deal because they are, they are fuzzing out. So this is opportunity for us.
21:30And just to inform our viewers, there was a call between Brussels and D.C. this week
21:34between the Foreign Affairs Chief Kaya Callas and Mario Rubio, the Secretary of State. But
21:38on that very interesting point, we will conclude this conversation. But stay with us, though,
21:42because after the break, we'll be telling you why the price of coffee in a European
21:46city is going up, even though inflation is going down. See you soon on Euronews.
21:59Welcome back to Brussels, my love, our weekly politics show with me, Maeve MacMahon.
22:05Well, February is here, which means Germans will be heading to the polls in a couple of weeks.
22:10On their minds, their wallets amidst headlines the German economy is set to contract again
22:15this year. But elsewhere across the Eurozone, economists insist that growth is back, especially
22:21in Spain, which used to be known as a laggard. Meanwhile, figures insist that inflation is
22:26going down. But it seems that prices are not begging the question. Do we still have
22:30a cost of living crisis in the EU or is it just a perception? Conor, in the previous
22:35segment, you were talking about the fact that we are poor. So are there any signs of light
22:40of being brighter this year in 2025 or absolutely not?
22:43Absolutely not. And you mentioned inflation is going down. OK, but it doesn't mean that
22:48prices go down. Inflation, you know, that the prices will stay the same because they've
22:51increased so much. No, the issue has been very, very bad policymaking and that has driven
22:58economic decline in Europe. So if you look at our citizens here in Brussels, we pay 50
23:02per cent tax rate. For what?
23:04It's worth pointing out that we are seeing the prices have just gone through the roof.
23:08Milk and butter, for example, have increased by 43 per cent, rice by 48 per cent. It feels
23:13like we will just be spending and spending and spending. And where are we going to get
23:18the money?
23:19No, it's tough to tell. And as Conor says, prices are sticky. So when they go up, they
23:23seldom come down. And we know, for instance, in some sectors like dairy, there have been
23:29producers taking a surcharge over the inflation increase. So there's an aspect of that as
23:34well.
23:35We've seen as well this phenomenon of greedflation, where companies are exploiting inflation to
23:40justify their price hikes.
23:42Yes, sometimes this happens because I think we need to understand that if you really want
23:47to control the cost of living crisis, the ECB action on interest rates is not enough
23:55because it's general.
23:56It's the European Central Bank, the ECB.
23:57So we need to go to each supply chain to see the situation in food, in energy, in housing
24:03and to tackle the specific reasons behind the prices out of control. And on the top
24:10of this, the access to good public services is very important. And there is the other
24:16part, which is to do with wages, because we need to keep people with access to living
24:21wages. And the fact that we could adopt a minimum wage law, this helps, but this is
24:28not enough. So we need to update wages also.
24:30And at least we'll hear, at least in Belgium, we have the indexation, which means our wages
24:34do go up based on inflation. That's something that's not happening in other countries,
24:37but still yet everyone's broke.
24:39Absolutely. I mean, I think you made a great point, Maria, but I have to ask, where is
24:44the money coming from? And let's highlight one member state, Italy. 10%, well, in five
24:50years, 10% of Italy's total tax revenue will go towards only servicing debt. That
24:56means that every year, Italians are paying more and more and more for the same amount.
25:01So we're really in a disastrous fiscal situation.
25:03Belgium as well is broke and still doesn't have a government. Because it's so broke,
25:07it can't come to an agreement. So that is the fact of the matter. There's no more
25:10coffers in the...
25:12No, and this is a driving conflict around the world. We've seen every government in
25:162024 that was up for election, who has been in charge of the inflation rising, were booted
25:23out of office, more or less. So this is top of the mind in voters' heads.
25:28Yeah, but we need to have a different way to deal with this bottleneck, because we need
25:35to have higher growth, quality growth. And for this, we need to invest. Then people ask
25:40me, investing, which means? Well, national budgets, they do have a limit. So we need
25:46to complement this with a full mobilisation of capital markets union plus European budget,
25:53issuing debt on critical priorities. This is something which became top priority. Because
26:00we have defence. We have the need to invest, which we just saw in car industry and many
26:05other industries. And we cannot just argue that we don't have the money. No, the money
26:10is there.
26:11Especially if you look at a country like Ireland. I mean, GDP figures are fantastic, but there's
26:15not a sufficient or adequate distribution of wealth, with not enough money being invested
26:20in services like education. But we did want to hear what it was like for people actually
26:26working in cafes and bars around our cities. So we caught up with Test a Chat. That's an
26:31NGO who monitors pricing for consumers. And we also paid a visit to Thomas Martin. He
26:35works here in Brussels at the cosy Leopold Café. Take a look.
26:42The cost of raw materials alone has risen drastically. So we're increasing our prices
26:46according to the margins. Our coffees come from Brazil. It's a vicious circle. Labour
26:51costs, rent and charges. It's very, very difficult to make a living in our sector these days
26:56with taxes everywhere.
26:58We have seen rises of about 30% in general and up to 70-80% over the last three years
27:05for certain product categories. So that is a lot. But that doesn't mean that our government
27:10cannot help. The government comes and helps people to bridge the gap. Also entrepreneurs,
27:18bar and restaurant owners, for example.
27:21So there you go. Something to think about the next time you enjoy your coffee.
27:24So there you go. Something to think about the next time you enjoy your coffee. And not
27:27to mention the price of hiring staff as well. It's very expensive in Belgium if you take
27:31as well Exci, a cafe where a few years ago here in the EU quarter, you could buy a coffee
27:36and a croissant for two euro. Now it's almost five euro for a coffee. And they're on the
27:40verge of bankruptcy. So we do risk as well losing a lot of these cafes that brighten
27:45up our cities. Varg?
27:47Yeah, we sure do. And as you said, it's a question of investments as well. Like for
27:51instance, in northern Europe, power prices are still very high. They're lower than they
27:55were just after the war in Ukraine started, but they're still very high. And it's a question
27:59of investing in key infrastructure, getting the power that is produced, for instance,
28:04in Spain to the northern Europe. But there we don't have the will or the capacity right
28:08now to invest.
28:09And just on power, there was a Eurostat recently that showed one fifth of the EU population
28:14is not even able to heat their homes. Are we getting better in that field now? Are we
28:18more sufficient?
28:20I don't think so. That's why we really need to have a European plan for housing. Because
28:24for the time being, in particular for young people in Europe, this is a major bottleneck
28:29we need to overcome. And the problem we have is that housing became a product in financial
28:35markets, a very interesting one. And this is bringing prices up and up. So we need to
28:42break this cycle.
28:43And just a final question for Connor, who originally, of course, comes from the UK.
28:48It's still our neighbour, but it's on the brink of recession. We've seen bond yields
28:51higher than Greece. Is the pound weakening very fast? Will we see the IMF intervene there
28:56to support your country?
28:57I don't know about the IMF. It's entirely possible. But I think also we get very focused
29:03on the negatives. You are right to say it's not just the EU where these things are happening.
29:07It's all around the world. But let's look at the bright shining light in the world,
29:11which is Argentina, with huge deregulation.
29:14And on that note, we'll bring that conversation to an end. For more in-depth analysis, do
29:19check out Euronews.com. But for now, thank you so much to our panellists for being with
29:23us. And thank you so much for watching. Take care and see you soon on Euronews.
29:35Hi there and welcome to Brussels My Love, Euronews' weekly chat show. I'm Maeve McMahon
29:41and for this edition, I'm joined by Fargh Foghman, policy analyst with the European
29:45Policy Centre, Maria João Rodrigues, the president of the Foundation for the European
29:50Progressive Studies, FEPS, and Conor Allen, corporate lobbyist. And we're taking a look
29:54back at the news of the week. And one that caught our eye here was the fact that Brussels'
29:59metro network was ranked as the second worst in Europe by the travel platform Bounce.
30:04Budapest was the worst. And meanwhile, data from the European Commission shows that the
30:09picture across Europe is rather varied when it comes to our satisfaction rate with public
30:13transport in our cities. In Vienna, residents are very satisfied at 91%, but in Rome, the
30:20level is very, very low. Brussels now doesn't fare too badly there. Does that data surprise
30:26you there? A little bit in some way, because I'm pretty happy with Brussels' transportation
30:31system. But in principle, I think it should be free though. In Luxembourg, it's free unless
30:38you want to go first class or travel across border, it's free. But of course, we need
30:43a lot of money for that. Yeah, this is perhaps too expensive. But I would say that, well,
30:47we need to offer green, cheaper public services, and then to give the possibility to particular
30:55groups to have them for free. So this is happening in many cities in Europe. I don't think we
31:00can have a universal rule. But this means that we need to have a big investment plan
31:07to move in this direction. But we're not, Maria, we're not, because in Brussels now
31:12the price has gone up for one metro ride. It's now 2.30 from February, whereas last
31:17September, it was 2.20, and last January, it was 2.10. So it's just gradually going
31:21up 10 cents every couple of months. But that's indexation, that's inflation. It's not actually
31:27going up in real terms. But we shouldn't obsess over the price. I mean, 2.10, 2.20, it's not
31:33a big deal. We're squeezing people's pockets. Okay, but they're still using the public transport
31:37if they need to. A far bigger concern is that a lot of public transport networks across
31:42Europe are abandoned. And if you look at Brussels Metro, you see children stepping over passed
31:47out addicts. You see a lot of safety and security issues. I have female friends who won't go
31:52into the Brussels Metro after dark, okay. And these places have been abandoned. And
31:56what actually we need to do is improve the quality of these services, which will get
32:00more people into them, not make it free, which hasn't actually increased in Luxembourg
32:05usage rates. And for that, of course, you need massive investment. And you need, of
32:08course, as well, construction works. But we want to also bring in the voices of the people
32:12of Brussels. We've heard from our panellists how they feel about public transport here
32:16in the city. But let's take a listen to people across the city.
32:20I use public transport a lot. In the centre of Brussels, it's perfect. But if you live
32:25a little further out, with all the construction work they're doing for buses and trams, it's
32:29actually more convenient to take the car, even if it's not as environmentally friendly.
32:34I'm a bit concerned because of not the quality, but rather the security issues.
32:41It's catastrophic. It's not at all up to the standard of what public transport should
32:45be in the capital of Europe. There's a problem with regularity and cleanliness.
32:50I think it could be better and also free, because it's really expensive right now and
32:55not a lot of people can afford it.
32:58It's too crowded. I don't like it. I do a bit of sport like this.
33:02So an array of views there from commuters here in Brussels. You said earlier you were
33:06very satisfied with the public transport. Conor Allen said he was not, with the metro
33:10here. What would be your reaction to what you've seen there?
33:15I think I agree with the last one. It's working pretty well. I agree with Conor in the way
33:19that it's not very clean at the stations and it is a little bit grimy sometimes. But the
33:26main problem for me is just the sheer amount of cars in Brussels. In my opinion, that is
33:31what is causing delays and troubles for the public transport.
33:34And the pollution has been shocking, of course, due to the cold weather. In January, we've
33:38seen temperatures hovering around freezing and rising air pollution levels in Brussels
33:43caused by emissions from heating buildings and also traffic. That's a major issue for
33:47our health.
33:48And that's why we need to think about the mobility system with a different range of
33:52possibilities, greener and cheaper. So the car is something which should not be for everyone
34:00just to have. It's for everyone to use if this is really needed. We need to shape also
34:06our way to deal with that.
34:08But Conor, the issue now, of course, as well is that it's winter. So you've seen a lot
34:11of people taking residence inside our metro stations. Back in summer, it wasn't like that.
34:15STIB invested a lot of money with the government in order to clean up the stations, which they
34:20did successfully. There was days there where you saw cleaners in the metro stations and
34:25they were spotless. But now, of course, winter, the problem's back, which shows a more structural
34:29problem that we have to deal with homelessness here and poverty.
34:31Oh, absolutely. And, you know, you have sort of these initiatives around creating drug
34:36usage centres in some of the most heavily trafficked metro stations in Brussels. How
34:41does that make people safer? But I'll just go back to what Maria said, that a car isn't
34:47for everybody. And that is not for the state to decide.
34:49For everybody to have.
34:50Let people decide whatever transport works for them. We're going to have electric cars
34:56anyway. So we're going to solve all the pollution problems.
34:59But here, it's not the people who've been deciding, it was their employers because of
35:02the subsidies as well given to a lot of people due to the high taxes. Many here in Belgium
35:06have just been handed a car.
35:07Which is ridiculous.
35:08And that's why we're clogging up our streets as many people commute and they don't pay
35:11their taxes. They just, you know, they have their car and they pollute our streets.
35:17Here we are. That's why I'm saying a car can be there to be owned, to be rented or to be
35:26used. So we need to change our approach for this. But I think this is right. Everyone
35:31who needs to have a car should have access to a car that can be rented or used, not necessarily
35:39owned. So we also need to change our conception of apartments. And this will help to have
35:46a more, let's say, future-proofed mobility system in our cities.
35:51In some way, I agree. And in some way, you mentioned the car subsidies. What a disaster.
35:57On the one hand, we're passing environmental measures. And on the other hand, we're giving
36:01people free cars. Free cars!
36:04We've created these mountains of problems over decades that now we're trying to undo.
36:09Any tips we can get, perhaps, from Oslo?
36:13The prices are going up in Oslo as well, actually. But in Stavanger in Norway, they made buses
36:18free for a while. And you saw that when the buses were free, people would come. That is
36:24also a place where people usually drive because the distances are pretty long.
36:29And I've seen in France, in cities like Strasbourg, Marseille, Paris, when pollution levels are
36:34very high, people can take the tram for free.
36:37For sure. And this is also an area where we can make the Chinese work for us. They produce
36:43subsidised electric buses and trams, which they sell pretty cheaply in Europe. So let's
36:49take advantage of it.
36:50Let's take advantage of it. On that positive note, we can bring this conversation to an
36:54end. Thank you so much, Ferk Boudman from the European Policy Centre, Maria Joao Rodrigues
36:59from FEPS and Conor Allen. Thank you so much for being with us. And thank you for watching.
37:03If you have any reactions to anything you have heard today, do reach out to us.
37:07brusselsmyloveateurnews.com. That's our email address. You can also reach us on social media.
37:12Thanks so much for tuning in. Take care and see you soon.