Today’s most notable creatives join Variety at Sundance for exclusive in-depth conversations across various entertainment mediums, presented by Audible.
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00:00Yeah, you're getting a syndrome.
00:02Can we all cry at the same time?
00:04I'm trying to suck it back up.
00:06Okay.
00:08We're a space that allows
00:10for emotion.
00:12It's too comfortable.
00:14It's too safe space in here.
00:16music
00:18music
00:20music
00:22music
00:24music
00:26music
00:28You've said that this is the passion
00:30project of your life.
00:32How did you develop this story
00:34and this premise? It didn't start out
00:36as the passion project of my life.
00:38It started with just like a funny idea
00:40of showing how two kids
00:42grew up too fast by way of
00:44adults playing kids
00:46like tall adults being around
00:48actual first graders and third graders.
00:50But then I started to think
00:52about why I thought of that idea
00:54in the first place and I
00:56decided to
00:58dive into my childhood a little bit more.
01:00Then it became like, I don't know,
01:02Hal and Harper and Dad
01:04came out of nowhere.
01:06They're not based on anyone in my life.
01:08They just
01:10fell in my lap.
01:12I have not stopped thinking about them
01:14for seven years.
01:16I will never
01:18care about
01:20something in the same way
01:22because my mental health
01:24can't afford it.
01:28When you're with something
01:30for so long and it's such a
01:32emotional
01:34story,
01:36it consumed a lot of my life
01:38in a way that I don't want things to consume
01:40my life in the future.
01:42It's a lot of weight to
01:44love something that much
01:46and to be that dedicated to it.
01:48What is that actually like for all of you
01:50as performers and some of you
01:52as producers too
01:54to know that your scene partner
01:56this is his thing.
01:58This is Cooper's real baby.
02:00Lily, I'll start with you.
02:04I was able to see firsthand
02:06and I know Addison was as well
02:08as E.P.'s
02:12no one has
02:14lived, slept,
02:16breathed, eaten
02:18something more
02:20than this show
02:22with Cooper.
02:24To be a part of someone's vision
02:26that they've had for so long, I felt
02:28extremely honored and I always feel it's
02:30things are meant to be.
02:32You were saying, had you been
02:34able to make this two years
02:36after you were thinking about it, I wouldn't have
02:38done it.
02:40None of us would have.
02:42It would just be different and I think
02:44everything happens for a reason.
02:46There was a lot of
02:48trust, I think, for a lot of us on set
02:50knowing that when someone knows
02:52something truly inside and out
02:54backwards every single way when you ask
02:56a question, he's already
02:58asked himself that question and can give you
03:00any answer you're looking for.
03:02As an actor, obviously it's very helpful
03:04with my scene partner when we
03:06cut to be like, wait, wait, wait.
03:08Is this what's happening? And to just be able to
03:10organically talk about it in such a close way
03:12it was really special.
03:14It's something I'll
03:16really appreciate, the experience
03:18of working with my
03:20director, actor, writer.
03:22And also when you're playing nine
03:24you have to be able to distinguish what
03:26older Harper is going
03:28through versus nine-year-old Harper
03:30is going through.
03:32They're going.
03:34You're telling I wanted other people.
03:36Don't worry, we're going to get there.
03:38But Addison, what about
03:40for you also?
03:42Remind me of the phrasing of your question.
03:44Just the idea of
03:46working with someone who this is their
03:48baby.
03:50So the thing
03:52with Cooper and this show specifically,
03:54I think you talk a lot about the idea sort of
03:56dropping into your lap and we've talked
03:58a bit more recently about the
04:00window being open for an
04:02artist to have an idea and where it comes from.
04:04And with this show
04:06specifically,
04:08Cooper has a lot of
04:10past lives obviously
04:12because he's so
04:14attuned to the experience of
04:16being a parent. That's such
04:18a big, big part of
04:20the show. It's such a
04:22big part of my draw
04:24to it as a parent myself.
04:26And that was a big part of our
04:28collaborating on this
04:30project.
04:32What was it that made you so
04:34invested?
04:36Personally, I think very different from
04:38maybe other people's, but the character
04:40was going through something that I had gone
04:42through recently at the time of
04:44finding the script.
04:46And it was just
04:48so strange to get to talk
04:50to them about it on my audition because
04:52I was like,
04:54I have been her before.
04:56I've clung on to something so hard
04:58and now that I'm away from it, I have a little bit
05:00more of a hindsight
05:02to see it, but I'd love to go back
05:04and feel that again just to
05:06maybe heal that part of myself in a way.
05:08So it was just very kismet.
05:10All of it.
05:12That is that cool part of art.
05:14I was going to say, you could always see it with
05:16you.
05:18There were a couple
05:20scenes where
05:22you just...
05:24I could almost sense
05:26your spirit
05:28not wanting to.
05:30The second take, I'd be like,
05:32I'm going to do it. And it was just like, right away.
05:34Alright, we got it. Let's go.
05:36And that would freak me out
05:38because I was like, Cooper, no we didn't.
05:40But it was just so...
05:44It was so clear
05:46that you had felt these big things
05:48before and you were feeling them again
05:50and it was even like...
05:52That's kind of the theme of the show too, is feeling these
05:54things that you've felt.
05:56The pain you forget, you remember.
05:58That's so good.
06:00As actors, that's what we're
06:02doing.
06:05Chris, what is it like to have a director
06:07that sees y'all like that?
06:09Because that is a real
06:11specific type of
06:13filmmaker, visionary
06:15that can really see.
06:17Oh no, man. Coop is an
06:19extremely specific type of
06:21creator.
06:24It's interesting working
06:26on someone's passion project.
06:28That's never happened for me. I've always
06:30worked with people who
06:32whatever it was just kind of fell
06:34into their lap or they signed on.
06:36At first it was a little
06:38scary because it's like...
06:40I didn't even think
06:42it was going to be scary until I was really on set
06:44with you and looking in your eyes and seeing
06:46you think about everything.
06:48I'm like, oh, he's
06:50super tapped.
06:52Let me tighten up.
06:56Yeah, after
06:58seeing all of that though, it just made me trust him.
07:00I knew he knew
07:02what he was doing or
07:04thinks he knew.
07:08It came out
07:10great.
07:12I've had it for you.
07:14I actually don't know if I told you this story
07:16but actually, and I'm realizing
07:18this, that I've not lied about this
07:20but forgotten this part of the story a couple
07:22times today. After I read
07:24the whole series, I
07:26actually decided I couldn't
07:28touch it. I was like,
07:30I actually don't think I can do this.
07:32I don't want to go there.
07:34It's way too painful.
07:36I had too many synchronicities with certain
07:38parts of it and even thinking about it now
07:40makes me want to cry.
07:42It kind of got me in this way that I was like,
07:44this is actually too much to touch.
07:46The only role that
07:48actually didn't feel like it was too much to touch
07:50was Abby.
07:52Then when Abby was
07:54the role, I was like, okay.
07:56I could touch. Abby, I could
07:58do this. I remember talking to Cooper
08:00about it all in the beginning
08:02and him expressing
08:04that this was also his
08:06way, I hope you don't mind me
08:08sharing this, but his way of
08:10processing, experiencing,
08:12moving through his life and building
08:14his life as a person.
08:16I think even
08:18though it's not a
08:20one-to-one relationship
08:22to your life or any of our lives, it's
08:24stuff that we all need our heart
08:26opened and approached in.
08:28I think it was
08:30funny because it allowed me
08:32to feel like I was
08:34actually doing
08:36something for Cooper's process
08:38which made it easier for me
08:40to approach the material because
08:42sometimes it was
08:44so hard to face
08:46myself in the material.
08:48Feeling like it was something I could do
08:50generously for Cooper in his
08:52process of becoming
08:54was something that I think
08:56I thought about a lot
08:58while doing it. Abby's
09:00the lightest, fluffiest part of this
09:02thing, but it still felt like I
09:04could play some part in whatever
09:06magical, weird,
09:08spiritual, mental, emotional
09:10process this was going to have.
09:12Wow, it's just
09:14very vulnerable.
09:18Yeah.
09:20I know.
09:22Too much today. What is it like
09:24to hear that? How much
09:26you all were supporting each other's
09:28dreams and needs
09:30in this moment?
09:32This thing that came out of your
09:34head and you were working through also
09:36was allowing everyone else to work through
09:38their things as well.
09:40Me too.
09:42We just watched it.
09:44That's why we're all really emotional.
09:46Um...
09:48You're getting us in trouble.
09:50Do we all cry at the same time?
09:52I suck it back up.
09:54Listen.
09:56We're a space that allows
09:58for emotion.
10:00It's too comfortable.
10:02It's too face-to-face in here.
10:04Do you know what's really nice about it?
10:06While shooting, it was so
10:08intense to shoot it the way that
10:10we shot it with not a lot of time and not a lot of money.
10:12We didn't really get to have this
10:14moment. Obviously we were all there
10:16together because we were so deeply moved
10:18by the script and wanting to be a part of it
10:20but we never really got to sit
10:22together or get dinner afterwards
10:24because the time was so
10:26intense and so short and fraught
10:28and we all cared
10:30a great deal obviously because we were
10:32showing up and doing it
10:34but this is our moment
10:36right now that you're witnessing of us
10:38experiencing it together
10:40and what it meant for everyone.
10:42I want to say thank you for letting us experience it
10:44because that is a very
10:46kind thing to do to be vulnerable
10:48in these rounds of interviews
10:50that you have to do all day
10:52long but it's also
10:54I think helpful for
10:56other creators who
10:58watch and admire all of
11:00y'all's works and paths
11:02to see how deeply
11:04this work can affect
11:06you and Cooper I'm also
11:08interested in kind of a business
11:10perspective as well
11:12this is what you're making after
11:14Cha-Cha gets sold or
11:16acquired for 15 million dollars
11:18what does that actually, like a number
11:20like that actually mean for a creator
11:22and getting your next
11:24project made?
11:28It makes you too confident
11:32because of that I thought that
11:34well let's just do it with TV
11:36and that's what I told
11:38everyone and it sounded
11:40on paper it feels right
11:42why not just do it with TV but
11:44the past year has been
11:46hard realizing that
11:48this
11:50this is not
11:52it's a model but
11:54we're really braving the storm
11:56with it in a way that you can't
11:58afford to like
12:00Cha-Cha was sold on the
12:02backs of like so many indie
12:04movies and this
12:06we're trying to sell this show
12:08and it hasn't really been done before
12:10so it has to be this undeniable
12:12thing to these streamers
12:14or networks and so
12:16it made me too confident
12:18but yeah no it just made me
12:20I'm really so
12:22grateful that it happened because it gave me the
12:24freedom to make something that
12:26I really wanted to
12:28make the passion project that I've always
12:30wanted to make.
12:32Lily you said this may not have happened
12:34if it was a couple of years
12:36sooner or earlier is that
12:38the Riverdale schedule just keeping you
12:40too tied up? Yeah no I never would
12:42have been able to have three months
12:4450 days or
12:46whatever it was to do this so
12:48and it was the first thing I did after
12:50Riverdale which was
12:52so weird but also
12:54like the biggest dream
12:56come true
12:58to be able to play something so
13:00different and to really like
13:02step into that second chapter
13:04of my or like the eighth chapter of my
13:06career to get that opportunity
13:08right after my show
13:10was
13:12truly just a dream
13:14and I can't say anything more or I will burst
13:16into tears.
13:18I'm sorry I do want
13:20to ask you what
13:22you know
13:24what
13:26being on a TV show like that for so long
13:28helped you with
13:30when it came to making another
13:32TV show because in this case
13:34this is Cooper's first show
13:36you have a different experience
13:38how did that kind of influence
13:40what you were able to do also on the
13:42EP end? Well I just think
13:44in general honestly
13:46just to speak
13:48if you don't mind me speaking for everyone that
13:50to make an indie show
13:52I mean it's very different to make any other show
13:54and I'm sure you know this
13:56everyone knows this but
13:58everyone has to be so game
14:00for a show like this you're doing it on
14:02such a limited budget you have no time
14:04it's 300 pages of a story
14:06that needs to be told and you
14:08have to be so locked in
14:10you have to be ready to
14:12change anything at a moment's notice
14:14and every single person who was
14:16a part of this was on board
14:18to do that and I you know
14:20in another television that's just not how it
14:22works you have a script you follow it
14:24you mess up a word you gotta say
14:26the word right and this is like
14:28freedom and collaboration
14:30at an all time high
14:32and so yeah
14:34to experience that as an actor
14:36is wonderful but also
14:38couldn't have been done without a group
14:40of people and it feels weird not to bring up
14:42Mark like Mark doesn't
14:44have to do an
14:46indie show
14:48and we said it was a long shot
14:50to get or I was like told you
14:52Mark Ruffalo's a long shot and it's like okay
14:54well we took the shot and it worked
14:56and it went long
14:58and like same with Betty Gilpin
15:00and
15:02they don't have to be game
15:04at that point in their careers
15:06and they absolutely were
15:08and that's
15:10just it couldn't have been done
15:12it couldn't have been done without
15:14the people that were there doing it
15:16Cooper how did you do
15:18the pitch to them to
15:20Mark to Betty? Well I met
15:22Mark because he liked a movie
15:24he liked Cha Cha and the agent
15:26his agent was like do not
15:28cause I was like oh I'm so excited there's a project
15:30he's so great for and she's like don't bring it up
15:32he just wants to meet you just like
15:34talk about like
15:36that you love his work and
15:38just keep it general it was like called a general
15:40just keep it a general
15:4210 minutes in I told him about how I liked it
15:44and it was great he like
15:46it was what we talked about for so
15:48long and he read the script so fast
15:50and he like told me
15:52exactly the reason why
15:54he wanted to do it he was he read
15:56us it was a scene near the end
15:58and he was like that's when I decided it and that's when
16:00he emailed his agent and
16:02the agent I don't even think I knew that
16:04I had sent the script so when she
16:06found out that he wanted to do it she was like so I guess you
16:08brought it up
16:10but yeah he
16:12was he's so
16:14game if he's touched in a way
16:16that he I think he felt like he
16:18something in the universe
16:20I have to do this project and he was so committed
16:22in that way and Betty
16:24is in
16:26love with Mark like when I
16:28first talked to her she was like I'm the biggest
16:30like I want to work with him so bad and I was like
16:32did you like the script too and she's like
16:34yes it was so great Mark
16:36and I are going to do scenes together because
16:38they're both they're both theater background
16:40and watching them together
16:42was just like everything
16:44I thought it would be they're both so
16:46talented. Well Cooper my dear I will say
16:48never change
16:50you know if you get that opportunity 10 minutes in
16:52bring it up I mean clearly this
16:54is what happens when that
16:56when that happens and you know in the
16:58idea of you know we're talking about
17:00all of the different changing mediums
17:02you guys you know
17:04making your first television series
17:06I'm also curious about you know
17:08other forms of storytelling and
17:10what you guys kind of look at as the future
17:12of audio storytelling
17:14like
17:16like audio books
17:18like audible
17:22the future of
17:24there's a lot of like narrative podcasting happening
17:26now which is pretty cool I don't
17:28know much about it but I've been
17:30sent things like you know where it's like episodic
17:32podcasting oh for sure yeah
17:34very cool
17:36I'm on visual
17:38like can I watch an audible like
17:40with some clips
17:42pictures cartoons
17:44whatever it's okay I'll tell
17:46Jon Hamm he's got to make his audio
17:48his audible original into a show
17:50yeah well we were
17:52talking about all fours
17:54oh yeah yeah Miranda
17:56do you know Miranda Tewie narrates
17:58does it of all fours
18:00she also narrated
18:02Fire of Love have you guys seen that
18:04it's a really special documentary
18:08well listen you guys
18:10seriously thank you so much
18:12I really appreciate your time
18:14and I really enjoyed watching the series
18:16and I can't wait to see what happens with it
18:18thank you as it
18:20continues on
18:22thank you so much