The Parliamentary debate on knife crime in the West Midlands organised by West Bromwich MP Sarah Coombes
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00:00:00I ought to explain this is my first time chairing a debate in Westminster Hall, so I expect
00:00:07you to be very gentle with me, and given I'm in the chair, if you're not, you know, I'm
00:00:12in the chair, aren't I?
00:00:15So Sarah Coombs to move the motion.
00:00:20I beg to move that this house is considered the prevention of knife crime in the West
00:00:23Midlands, and it's a pleasure to serve under your first chairmanship, Sir John.
00:00:29I want to open this debate by talking about a knock on a mother's door, the kind of knock
00:00:35that too many parents have experienced, and too many more dread.
00:00:41Last week a woman from my area told me her story.
00:00:45She had already heard through friends that something had happened that night.
00:00:49Her sister was out searching the local hospitals.
00:00:52She had rung the police and they told her someone would be there soon.
00:00:57Then she heard a knock on the front door.
00:01:00What happened to my son was what I was always worried about.
00:01:04He was the kind of person who always protected his friends, and that's what happened.
00:01:09He stepped in front of his friend to protect him, and he was stabbed.
00:01:13The loss of a child in this way feels too enormous to comprehend, but she explained
00:01:18to me the ways it had affected not just her own life, but her other children's lives.
00:01:25My daughter is so angry, but she won't talk about what happened.
00:01:28She feels there is no justice for her brother.
00:01:31She's only in primary school, but she's self-harming.
00:01:36We are here today in this debate because we have got to stop this happening.
00:01:41Families shattered, communities destroyed by knives.
00:01:46It's my duty as the MP for West Bromwich to do everything I can to work with the police,
00:01:50with schools, with constituents and my community to stop this nightmare from happening in the first place.
00:01:57In the West Midlands, we have the highest rate of knife crime per capita of any region in England.
00:02:02But I don't want to talk about stats today.
00:02:05I want to talk about stories of the victims, of those who live in fear, and even those
00:02:12of people who have committed these terrible crimes.
00:02:16This debate is focused on prevention, so I want to talk about the role policing has
00:02:20to play in that, as well as intervention by schools, communities and families to keep
00:02:25young people safe.
00:02:28Last year, I went to a football tournament in memory of one of the young players who
00:02:32was stabbed to death.
00:02:34I spoke to some of the teenagers there, and I was truly shocked by what I heard.
00:02:38They were angry.
00:02:40They distrusted the police, but still felt that there should be more of them around.
00:02:44They felt trapped in places where crime was all around them.
00:02:47They felt they had no opportunities for a different and better life.
00:02:52One teenage boy said to me, and I will never forget this, that he didn't think he would
00:02:56live to the age of 22.
00:03:00This past week, I got in touch with their coach again, and I asked them for the young
00:03:03people's thoughts on what the government needs to do to tackle knife crime.
00:03:07And here is some of what they said.
00:03:10The gang violence and knife crime is getting worse in my area.
00:03:14We need more youth centres and funding to help stop this.
00:03:18Could we do more to stop youths from buying knives on the internet?
00:03:21Why aren't there more police patrolling the town centres that are known for knife crime
00:03:25and gangs?
00:03:26Our local area is getting worse, and no one seems to care enough to do anything about
00:03:30it.
00:03:32Education around knife crime should happen at a much younger age.
00:03:34A majority of young people don't take it seriously because it has not happened to someone close
00:03:38to them, so maybe education needs to be by someone who has really suffered as a consequence
00:03:43of knife crime.
00:03:45The mother I mentioned earlier felt similarly.
00:03:48There is no support, no prevention, not enough youth clubs.
00:03:51It's too easy to access these weapons.
00:03:54You can go and buy them online with no proof of ID.
00:03:57There's nothing for young people to do now.
00:03:59My youth club provided experiences like whitewater rafting.
00:04:03Now the youth clubs are all gone, social media has come in, and crime is through the roof.
00:04:09After years of cuts to policing and youth services, it's no surprise that we haven't
00:04:13been able to turn the tide on knife crime.
00:04:16Our new Labour government has shown important ambition in committing to halving knife crime
00:04:21in a decade, and I'd appreciate the Minister, in her response, going into some detail about
00:04:25how we are planning to achieve this.
00:04:28The young people I mentioned identified some themes that get to the heart of this matter.
00:04:33Visible policing as a deterrent, reducing access to knives, and early intervention and
00:04:38education.
00:04:40Can I ask the Minister how young people are being involved in policy design to ensure
00:04:44the action government takes is effective?
00:04:48The police service in the West Midlands was slashed in the austerity years.
00:04:51We still have 800 fewer police officers and 500 fewer PCSOs than we did in 2010.
00:04:58The knock-on effect of this is obvious.
00:05:01It's not just seeing police walking around our town centres and crime hotspots that keeps
00:05:05us safe.
00:05:06It's about police and PCSOs having the time and the space to build those key community
00:05:11relationships, gain trust and vital intelligence that can stop crime.
00:05:17One of our most important pledges during the election was to restore neighbourhood policing,
00:05:21and I look forward to us having 13,000 extra officers and PCSOs across the country.
00:05:27As well as wanting to see police on our streets, people often raise with me the need for strong
00:05:31sentences to deter people from carrying a knife.
00:05:35Fundamentally, we've got to reduce access to these lethal weapons.
00:05:40When looking at rates of knife crime per capita, West Brom is the highest for possession in
00:05:43Sandwell.
00:05:45We had a dreadful incident before Christmas, where young people were running around West
00:05:49Bromwich in broad daylight, wearing balaclavas and wielding machetes.
00:05:53It was terrifying for the people who were there, and it has a huge knock-on effect on
00:05:57local businesses and the entire area.
00:06:00West Midlands Police have set up the Life or Knife initiative, which provides education
00:06:04in schools and allows people to anonymously report when someone is carrying a knife.
00:06:09Our Police and Crime Commissioner has also funded weapon surrender bins across the region.
00:06:14But we've got to cut this off at source.
00:06:17My local paper, The Express and Star, ran an award-winning campaign with Wolverhampton
00:06:21mother Pooja Kander to ban these zombie-style knives and machetes.
00:06:27I applaud the paper for this important work, and I fully support the Labour government's
00:06:31commitment to do this.
00:06:33And as the victim's mother I talked about earlier said to me, online retailers have
00:06:37to be held to account.
00:06:38So can I ask the Minister, now that the ban has been in place for a few months, is it
00:06:42proving successful?
00:06:43And in particular, what enforcement action is being taken against these online retailers
00:06:48who are delivering these zombie-style knives straight to people's homes?
00:06:53And these things are all important.
00:06:55Police presence, reducing access to lethal weapons.
00:06:58But perhaps the most important thing of all is education, early intervention and constant
00:07:04support for young people who could get caught up in violence.
00:07:08Research shows that young people excluded from education are at greater risk of getting
00:07:11involved in violence, which is why it's so important we do everything we can to keep
00:07:15young people in school.
00:07:18In the last few years, there have also been important programmes with organisations like
00:07:21St Giles Trust, which have supported young people at teachable moments, such as when
00:07:26they are in custody or in A&E.
00:07:29But in too many cases, the intervention comes too late, as in the next case I want to talk
00:07:35about.
00:07:36Now, this might be slightly unusual, but I'm going to read the words of someone on the
00:07:41other side.
00:07:43These are the words of a constituent of mine who went to prison for 14 years for his involvement
00:07:49in the murder of a man using a knife.
00:07:52His words are powerful, and I think they're important, because as we've heard, young people
00:07:57respond to others' lived experience.
00:08:00So when I asked him how he feels now about being involved in a knife attack that took
00:08:06someone's life all those years ago, this is what he said.
00:08:09I feel so many emotions.
00:08:12I feel ashamed.
00:08:13I feel embarrassed, remorseful, unequivocally.
00:08:16It doesn't matter that it wasn't my plan and I didn't wield the knife.
00:08:20Ultimately, decisions I made that night led to that, and if I hadn't made certain decisions,
00:08:24he would still be here.
00:08:26I feel dirty for that.
00:08:28I don't dream often, but when I do, they are bad dreams, violent, people trying to kill
00:08:33me.
00:08:34Whenever I see knife crime stories about mothers losing their sons, it takes me back.
00:08:39And it's the ripple effects, the people whose houses back onto the park where it happened,
00:08:43the first responders, the guy who was walking his dog who found the body.
00:08:49All these lives are changed forever.
00:08:52Having spent so much of his life so far in prison, he now wants to work with young people
00:08:57to stop them following the same path of violence.
00:09:01I asked him what would make the difference for young people now to stop them committing
00:09:06such a terrible crime, and this is what he said.
00:09:10It's more than what to say, it's what I do.
00:09:13The authenticity and the realness and empathy is so important.
00:09:17You need somebody like me who has the life experience, so you can talk openly about their
00:09:21home life, parents, friends, family, hobbies, hopes, and dreams, and build trust and rapport
00:09:28and show love, take them on positive trips, take them to places they'd never be able to
00:09:32afford to go, and show them the life they could have.
00:09:36And it has to be a 24-7 thing, support all the time.
00:09:40The night of my offense, when I would have reached out, it would have been late, and
00:09:44you need someone to be there then.
00:09:46Not office hours and then they turn off their phone.
00:09:49At any hour, you need someone to say, where are you, I'm coming to you, stay where you
00:09:53are.
00:09:54There is so much more of my conversation with him that I think will be useful for members
00:09:58to hear, but there isn't, unfortunately, time.
00:10:00But I hope in her remarks, the minister can address the importance of wraparound and consistent
00:10:05support for young people, and the need to give intervention and mentoring from a very
00:10:09young age, not just at the point when a child is suspended or already in trouble.
00:10:14This key message about what will prevent knife crime is education from an early age,
00:10:20in the right way, delivered by the right people.
00:10:24So to conclude, Sir John, knife crime doesn't just destroy families, it destroys communities.
00:10:31It destroys town centres when people are afraid.
00:10:34My honourable friend and constituency neighbour, the Member for Tipton and Wensbury, couldn't
00:10:38be here today, but she asked me to reflect on the impact it has on schools too, such
00:10:43as Wodensborough, where a pupil who was killed will forever be remembered.
00:10:48I am proud that this Government is so committed to stopping the nightmare of knife crime in
00:10:52our communities, and I see it as my role, as the local MP, to do everything I can to
00:10:57be part of that.
00:11:01So I remind Members, if they want to attract my attention, they need to bob, I can see
00:11:06they know that already.
00:11:08The question is that this House has considered the prevention of knife crime in the West
00:11:13Midlands.
00:11:14I call Wendy Morton.
00:11:15Thank you, Sir John.
00:11:16And it's a pleasure to serve under your First Chairmanship here in Westminster Hall today.
00:11:22And I am grateful to the honourable Member for West Bromwich for securing this important
00:11:27debate today, and for providing many of us from across the West Midlands with the opportunity
00:11:33to contribute.
00:11:35The tragic and devastating effects of knife crime have been a central concern for communities
00:11:40across the West Midlands and the Walsall Borough, particularly for those of us representing
00:11:45constituencies which have been impacted by such violent acts.
00:11:50Knife crime is a problem that cannot be ignored.
00:11:53It requires the attention and action of all of us in this House and beyond.
00:11:58In December 2023, I secured a debate on knife crime in the West Midlands, and highlighted
00:12:05the shockingly high rates of violent incidents in our communities.
00:12:09Sadly, as we now enter 2025, the statistics remain deeply troubling.
00:12:14In the last 12 months alone, leading to March 2024, West Midlands Police recorded 7,000
00:12:21knife-related offences, sadly a 70% increase from 2016.
00:12:27But these are not just numbers, Sir John.
00:12:30These are families, their friends, loved ones and entire communities that are affected.
00:12:36So we must as a nation reflect on the devastating toll these crimes take on real lives.
00:12:42Because behind each statistic lies a story of personal loss and grief, of families torn
00:12:48apart, of communities shaken to the core.
00:12:52In my own constituency of Aldrich Brown Hills, we are reminded of the heart-wrenching consequences
00:12:57of knife crime through the loss of James Brindley, who tragically lost his life in 2017.
00:13:05James was just 26 years old when he was fatally stabbed by a 17-year-old as he walked home
00:13:11from a night out.
00:13:13James's death sparked an outpouring of grief in the community, and led his parents, Mark
00:13:19and Beverly, to found the James Brindley Foundation, a charity committed to reducing youth violence
00:13:25and promoting positive change in our community.
00:13:29The Foundation's work, particularly their Life for Knife campaign and their commitment
00:13:33to providing knife amnesty bins across Walsall Borough, plays a vital role in providing young
00:13:38people with the tools and the support they need to make better choices.
00:13:43The installation of these bins, coupled with education and mentoring, which is also crucial,
00:13:49and partnerships with local businesses, are an inspiring example of grassroots action
00:13:54to tackle knife crime prevention.
00:13:57One initiative I want to highlight today is Project Ray of Hope, which was born from the
00:14:03success of the Knife Angels' visit to Walsall in 2023.
00:14:07For those of us who went to see the Knife Angel, it is one of the most poignant examples
00:14:14of sculpture that I have ever, ever imagined.
00:14:20Just to sit down there and see it is incredibly powerful.
00:14:25The project that the James Brindley Foundation are working on aims to create a permanent
00:14:30public art installation in the heart of Walsall.
00:14:33It will serve as a poignant reminder of the damage caused by serious youth violence.
00:14:38Importantly, the project aims to engage young people throughout its development, providing
00:14:44them with an opportunity to shape the future of their community through creative expression.
00:14:49This collaboration between the James Brindley Foundation and Walsall Council exemplifies
00:14:54the positive role local organisations can play in raising awareness and providing solutions.
00:15:00I am aware of the Government's announcement of the Coalition to Tackle Knife Crime, and
00:15:04I urge Ministers to include the James Brindley Foundation in this critical initiative if
00:15:09they have not done so already.
00:15:11The Government should be working closely with this type of organisation, whose expertise
00:15:16and community engagement are essential to exploring effective solutions to this pressing
00:15:21issue.
00:15:22As we all acknowledge the important contributions of organisations such as the James Brindley
00:15:27Foundation, we must also turn our attention to the broader question of how we as a society
00:15:33are responding to knife crime.
00:15:35The Government have a critical role to play, but so too do our local leaders and public
00:15:40services.
00:15:41The Labour Police and Crime Commissioner and the Mayor have significant responsibilities
00:15:46to ensure that our communities are safe, yet I fear in many cases we are not yet seeing
00:15:51the level of leadership required to tackle this scourge effectively.
00:15:56Housing and public safety must remain a top priority.
00:15:59The West Midlands has one of the highest rates of knife crime in the country, with 175 knife-related
00:16:06offences per 100,000 residents recorded in the region last year, yet at a time when we
00:16:12need effective leadership, the response from our Police and Crime Commissioner and the
00:16:16Mayor is not good enough.
00:16:19I have long campaigned for a greater share of police resources in my constituency, including
00:16:24maintaining the police station in Aldridge, which is crucial for ensuring that our community
00:16:29feels safe and has the support it needs to tackle crime at the local level, yet it still
00:16:35remains under threat of being sold off by the Police and Crime Commissioner.
00:16:40The police must also be empowered to act swiftly.
00:16:44The proposed devolution of powers over policing to the Mayor could, if handled correctly,
00:16:49provide a more direct and focused response to this ongoing issue, and I very much hope
00:16:54that the Police and Crime Commissioner will not waste valuable taxpayers' resources
00:16:59by taking legal action to resist the proposed changes.
00:17:04It is time for strong leadership.
00:17:06It is time for a change in approach that acknowledges the scale of the problem and responds with
00:17:11the urgency it deserves.
00:17:13This includes ensuring that local authorities, our police and our third sector organisations
00:17:18work together more effectively to prevent knife crime and protect vulnerable young people
00:17:23from falling into the trap of gang violence and criminal exploitation.
00:17:28One area where we can make a tangible difference, I believe, is in education, and I have long
00:17:34added my voice to calls for the integration of knife crime prevention into the national
00:17:39school curriculum, an initiative that could serve as a powerful tool to raise awareness
00:17:44and shape the next generation's understanding of the devastating consequences of carrying a knife.
00:17:50We need to teach our children about the risks, but we must also equip them with the support
00:17:55they need to resist peer pressure and make better choices.
00:17:59This is why I continue to back the campaign for knife crime prevention to be made a compulsory
00:18:04part of school education.
00:18:06I know it is a move that has already garnered significant support.
00:18:11Further to that, the Government should widen the scope of knife bans.
00:18:15Far more knives are banned now than was the case in 2010, which is good.
00:18:20It is an issue that all parties should be concerned about, though.
00:18:23I know the Government continued the policy banning zombie knives in September, which
00:18:27is great.
00:18:28However, more can and should be done, which is why the previous Government sought to increase
00:18:32the maximum penalty from six months to two years for the offences of private possession,
00:18:39importation, manufacture, sale or supply of prohibited offensive weapons, and for selling
00:18:45knives to those under 18.
00:18:47I am aware that, under the current Government, the Home Secretary commissioned a rapid review
00:18:52to understand how these weapons are sold online and delivered to under-18s, to identify gaps
00:18:58in legislation and to find the most effective ways to stop this.
00:19:02I commend that effort.
00:19:04But now we need to ensure that it leads to swift action that strengthens our laws and
00:19:09holds those responsible to account.
00:19:13Rapid reviews need to lead to rapid actions.
00:19:15So, Sir John, as I conclude, I reiterate the importance of collaboration across all levels
00:19:21of society.
00:19:23We must work together to reduce knife crime and ensure that our communities and our young
00:19:28people have the support that they need to build a future free from violence.
00:19:35Before I call the next speaker, looking around the Chamber, I can see a lot of people want
00:19:39to contribute to this very important subject, so I'm going to suggest that you restrict
00:19:43yourselves to about five minutes, but then get everyone in and give plenty of time for
00:19:48the spokesman to speak and for the mover of the motion to say a few words at the end.
00:19:52So, let me call the next speaker.
00:19:54Preet Kergil.
00:19:56It's a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir John.
00:19:58Let me start by paying thanks to my friend the Honourable Member for West Bromwich for
00:20:02securing this timely and important debate highlighting the real-life impacts of knife
00:20:07crime in her constituency.
00:20:09Knife crime is a public health crisis, and as an ex-Cabinet Member for Public Health
00:20:13and ex-Children's Services Manager, it is essential that we tackle both the causes and
00:20:17effects of knife crime.
00:20:19In July, the ONS found knife crime in England and Wales had risen by 78% over the past 10
00:20:24years, and this is a staggering increase and sets out the scale of the challenge facing
00:20:28the new Government to reverse that terrifying trend within a decade.
00:20:33The West Midlands Police Force area, I am sad to say, is responsible for 10% of knife-enabled
00:20:38crime in the whole of England and Wales, and only the Met Police have more cases.
00:20:43The statistics never alone tell the real story, and in recent years I have been witness to
00:20:47some horrific cases as the MP for Birmingham-Idvaston.
00:20:51Jordan Moazami was 18 years old and described as a role model by his peers, who was stabbed
00:20:56and killed on Tennell Road in my constituency in 2019.
00:20:59Muhammad Hassam Ali, 17 years old, was followed and killed by a 15-year-old after a four-minute
00:21:05conversation in Birmingham city centre.
00:21:08And Dijon Reid, my constituent, 14 years old, was hounded by a gang of five boys and grown
00:21:13men before being stabbed in the chest in 2021 and died.
00:21:17I can't do justice in words to the horror of these cases, and in every one what strikes
00:21:22you immediately is the senselessness of it.
00:21:25In many ways, I think that is where we need to start, when we think about how to find
00:21:29meaningful solutions to the epidemic of young boys taking each other's lives.
00:21:34Prevention has to be our watchword here.
00:21:36The root causes to understanding knife crime is complicated.
00:21:39It is often a picture of poverty, of drugs, gangs, exploitation, school exclusion, domestic
00:21:44violence, adverse childhood experiences and being in care.
00:21:48One of the two boys, aged 12 years old, who killed Sean Cesar High in Wolverhampton in
00:21:522023, had experienced significant trauma in their life and had been at risk of child criminal
00:21:58exploitation.
00:21:59According to the defence, he had been groomed, exploited and trafficked by men in the community,
00:22:04so there is a complicated story to tell there.
00:22:07One of the questions you ask yourself is, who is looking out for these boys?
00:22:11I think child criminal exploitation is often misunderstood by professionals, which prevents
00:22:16the early identification of child victims.
00:22:18Too often, child victims of exploitation are criminalised rather than safeguarded, something
00:22:23which exploiters and organised criminal gangs anticipate and utilise to their advantage.
00:22:29The services that might identify them as at risk—schools, youth services, mental health
00:22:33services—are all under strain.
00:22:35Youth mental health services are in crisis, school exclusions have been at record level
00:22:39high and youth services have been cut to the bone.
00:22:42The tragedy is that, sometimes, it is the absence of a safe space that is putting children
00:22:47at risk.
00:22:48Some of the stories you hear are absolutely bleak.
00:22:50A Barnardo's practitioner at a child exploitation service shared evidence that, during winter,
00:22:55groups of children often gathered outside a leisure centre, sat by the air vents, as
00:22:59that was the only place where they could feel warm and safe.
00:23:03It became a spot for exploitation and was described as a hot spot for adults or older
00:23:07teens, with cars driving by and offering lifts and McDonald's.
00:23:11Of course, that is how the dynamics of exploitation start—the favours, the debts and the escalating
00:23:16patterns of criminality.
00:23:18I was struck recently by a comment by Martin Griffiths, a consultant trauma surgeon in
00:23:22London and the national clinical director for violence reduction in NHS England.
00:23:26He is an incredible practitioner who has done some amazing work through his charity.
00:23:31He said that county lines and drug carriers are all being exploited, whether knowingly
00:23:35or not, by individuals or organisations who utilise them because they are impressionable.
00:23:39They are mentoring these kids to do bad things.
00:23:41These are children who are low on support, self-esteem and resources.
00:23:44It is precisely this lack of spaces and opportunities that is part of what puts children and young
00:23:49people at risk.
00:23:51Research by YMCA in 2021 found that, in England, local authority spending on youth services
00:23:56totaled £379 million, a £1.1 billion cut in youth services from 2010.
00:24:02In Birmingham, I am hugely relieved that, despite the current challenges at the council,
00:24:06all youth centres are now going to remain open and retained by the council or partner
00:24:10organisations.
00:24:11It is a huge testament to the importance residents and young people place on these services in
00:24:16our city.
00:24:17I want to thank everyone who made their voice heard in the recent consultation.
00:24:22Communities and families have solutions, and they need to be part of the plan for change.
00:24:25I am really excited about the 10-year Young Futures programme the Home Office is working
00:24:29on, as it has the potential to do great things in my city.
00:24:32The creation of a new network of youth hubs is exactly what we need, and I would be grateful
00:24:36if the Minister could meet me to discuss the provision in Birmingham.
00:24:40Across England and Wales, there were 50,000 knife-related crimes in the year to March
00:24:432023, and around 5,000 of those in the West Midlands police force area.
00:24:48I am heartened by the Home Secretary's categorical commitment that every youngster found carrying
00:24:52a knife will trigger a rapid intervention, including a prevention plan to stop them
00:24:56reoffending.
00:24:57Identifying those young people before it is too late is half the battle, and when the
00:25:01signs are there, we must act on them.
00:25:03I wonder if the Minister could say more about the plans laid out in our manifesto this summer
00:25:07to place youth workers and mentors in A&E units and pupil referral units.
00:25:11I want to pay tribute to brilliant charities such as Red Thread in my patch, which have
00:25:15been working at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital for several years.
00:25:18I mentioned Martin Griffiths as surgeon and clinical director.
00:25:21The work he has pioneered at his A&E as a trauma surgeon is extraordinary.
00:25:27So often, many young people would turn up to his operating table, and he had seen them
00:25:30many times before.
00:25:31He realised that A&E admissions were a critical opportunity to intervene, and he has a multidisciplinary
00:25:38team at his hospital and based in A&E, and instead of just patching up children and sending
00:25:42them on their way, the team actually help them to get education, work or somewhere to
00:25:47live.
00:25:48The team provide health treatment, advice on special educational needs, and the police
00:25:51provide protection and support for those who want to get out of a gang.
00:25:55The hospital allows the patients to stay there until it is safe for them to be discharged.
00:25:59The results have been incredible.
00:26:01Readmission rates have dropped from 30% to 4%.
00:26:04Red Thread has a similar model and has demonstrated similarly remarkable results.
00:26:08Ninety per cent of the young people supported by Red Thread did not return to hospital for
00:26:12a violence-related injury in the following year, and six months after the intervention,
00:26:15100% of the young people supported said they felt safer than they had before the incident.
00:26:21Young people who engaged in the full programme were 51% less likely to re-attend than those
00:26:27who did not.
00:26:28A cost-benefit analysis showed that, for every £1 spent, there was £4.90 economic and social
00:26:33benefit.
00:26:34I wonder if the Minister could say more about the multidisciplinary and multi-agency working
00:26:39to address violence or exploitation finally.
00:26:42We need to crack down on the criminals and roots into serious violence and crime.
00:26:47It baffles me that we still do not have a specific statutory definition of child criminal
00:26:52exploitation.
00:26:53There have been multiple definitions, resulting in a confused and fragmented response by authorities.
00:26:59Investigators have to use laws on modern slavery to punish those coercing or forcing children
00:27:04to move drugs.
00:27:05A new offence of criminal exploitation of children would allow us to go after the gangs
00:27:10who were luring young people into violence and crime.
00:27:13I look forward to working with the Government on its plan to introduce this new law in due
00:27:16course.
00:27:17I am proud of the swift action the Government has taken to tackle knife crime so far, banning
00:27:21zombie-style blades and machetes that were used to kill Ronan Cunder in Wolverhampton,
00:27:26setting an ambitious mission to halve knife crime in a decade, and launching a new coalition
00:27:29to tackle knife-enabled crime, working together with technology companies, sports organisations
00:27:34and the health service.
00:27:35There is undoubtedly a lot more to do.
00:27:37I would be keen to hear from the Minister on when she hopes to introduce the Crime and
00:27:40Policing Bill so that we can move ahead with the Young Futures programme and strengthen
00:27:44those laws.
00:27:45The message we need to send to young people is one of hope and opportunity, that our society
00:27:50cares about them and we are invested in them and their futures.
00:27:54Tackling knife crime has always been about prevention and protection as much as prosecution.
00:27:59After 14 years of abject failure by the last Government on this issue, I look forward to
00:28:03working with the Labour Government to deliver change that saves more lives.
00:28:08I also want to thank the Honourable Member for securing this important debate.
00:28:24Knife crime continues to be a devastating issue across the UK, and the West Midlands
00:28:28is no exception.
00:28:30The number of recorded offences—over 3,600 last year, a 6% increase in the previous year—underscores
00:28:37the urgent need for more robust preventative measures.
00:28:42As Honourable Members have observed, a return to proper community policing will go towards
00:28:48making our communities safer.
00:28:51The tragic murder of my constituent, Cody Fisher, a young and promising footballer and
00:28:57PE teacher in a Birmingham nightclub in December 2022, highlights the devastating impact of
00:29:05these issues on families, friends and the wider community.
00:29:09Cody was fatally stabbed with a smuggled zombie knife, exposing serious failings in venue
00:29:15security.
00:29:16Cody's mother, Tracy, has shown incredible courage in campaigning for Cody's law.
00:29:23This law would mandate bleed control kits and metal detectors in late-night venues—practical,
00:29:31cost-effective measures that will save lives.
00:29:34Tackling knife crime requires more than reactive measures.
00:29:38We must address its root causes by prioritising investment in youth services which were cut
00:29:45to the bone, education in schools and community-led programmes that offer young people opportunities
00:29:53and alternatives.
00:29:54We also need to tackle the online advertisement and sale of knives to our young people.
00:30:01Cody's law is an essential step towards reducing knife crime in licensed venues and must be
00:30:07part of a broader strategy to protect young lives and create safer communities.
00:30:14I urge the Government Minister to adopt these proposals and ensure that no more families
00:30:20endure the senseless loss that Cody's family has suffered.
00:30:50As the MP for Hell's Owen, I am all too aware of the scourge of knife crime across our region.
00:31:03Many people from my constituency still remember the tragic death of Ryan Passie, a promising
00:31:08young footballer from Quarry Bank who was stabbed to death in a nightclub in 2017.
00:31:15Ryan was killed as his assailants were able to carry a knife into that venue without being
00:31:20stopped and with no fear of being caught.
00:31:23It is shocking that no-one yet has been found guilty of his murder.
00:31:28His family is still fighting for justice more than seven years after he was killed.
00:31:33Since Ryan's tragic death, knife crime has continued to blight our community.
00:31:37In August last year, three youths attacked and slashed a man on Silverthin Lane in Cradley
00:31:42Heath.
00:31:43In September, students at Leesos High School were placed under lockdown for their safety
00:31:47after masked youths were seen with machetes hanging outside around the school.
00:31:52The number of young men and boys carrying and using knives with impunity across our
00:31:56communities is deeply worrying.
00:31:59Residents are scared, with many telling me they no longer feel safe leaving their homes
00:32:03alone.
00:32:04This is unacceptable.
00:32:06People deserve to feel safe in their communities, and students should not be having their learning
00:32:10disrupted due to threats of violence.
00:32:13The numbers on knife crime in our region are terrifying.
00:32:16Research by the Office for National Statistics has reported that the West Midlands has the
00:32:20highest rate of knife crime of any region in the whole country, with more than 5,000
00:32:24offences reported last year.
00:32:27Rates of knife crime in our region have increased year on year since 2015, and we now have higher
00:32:33rates of knife crime than in London.
00:32:36Unworryingly, this seems to be driven by a big increase in children and young people
00:32:40carrying knives.
00:32:42Last year, over 3,200 young people aged 10 to 17 were charged with knife offences, which
00:32:47is up 20% on a decade ago.
00:32:50As MPs for the West Midlands, we should be deeply concerned about these statistics.
00:32:55The truth is, it is a legacy of poor decisions over the last decade by the Conservative Government,
00:33:00a legacy of cuts to neighbourhood policing, cuts to youth services, rising child poverty
00:33:06and a failing youth justice system that works in the interests of no-one.
00:33:10This Government has a moral responsibility to act now to tackle this crisis, and our
00:33:14response requires a multifaceted approach.
00:33:17First, we must focus on preventing weapons from reaching our streets.
00:33:21This means making it harder for young people to gain access to dangerous weapons like machetes,
00:33:25ninja swords and zombie blades.
00:33:28In this regard, I welcome the Government's new ban on these weapons.
00:33:31Second, the police must have the resources and powers to stop and seize weapons from
00:33:35young people on our streets.
00:33:37I was shocked to learn that the rate for police stop and search in the West Midlands is less
00:33:40than half of what it is in London.
00:33:43As we put more bobbies on the beat, the police in the West Midlands should be using our stop
00:33:47and search powers more frequently to respond to rising knife crime.
00:33:52And finally, and most importantly, we need to address the root causes of offending, offering
00:33:57young people hope, opportunities and positive alternatives to destructive pathways.
00:34:02The Government's creation of a new Young Futures programme, which includes prevention
00:34:06partnerships across England, is an important step to intervene early and stop young people
00:34:11from being drawn into crime.
00:34:12It is also important to act in our A&E departments when young people come into emergency rooms
00:34:17with violent injuries.
00:34:19This is a time when social workers and youth workers should be stepping in and offering
00:34:22pathways away from violent behaviour.
00:34:25There is no room for letting people fall through the cracks.
00:34:29I have seen the impact knife crime has on our communities.
00:34:31The families of victims, like Ryan Passey, deserve real action to prevent these tragedies
00:34:35happening again and again.
00:34:37But I am confident that together we can work to prevent more knives getting on our streets,
00:34:41deter people from carrying them and make people across the West Midlands finally feel safe.
00:34:46I also thank the Honourable Member for West Bromwich in securing this very important debate.
00:35:05I hope I can be somewhat succinct.
00:35:08I echo the sentiments by other Honourable Members in this debate.
00:35:14But I want to talk about my personal experiences as someone who grew up in an area that has
00:35:22had historically the most heist deprivation, high crime, gang culture—the area of Aston.
00:35:33I grew up in an environment where young lads would hang around on street corners, in the
00:35:42local park, in local shopping centres.
00:35:46We know the phrase, idle hands make a devil's workshop.
00:35:53What was it that allowed me, my siblings and people who were very closely affiliated with
00:35:59me, my social surroundings, to achieve so much coming out of an area such as Aston?
00:36:07I reflect on my personal experiences.
00:36:10I can say one of the most important factors that allowed me to remain out of gang culture,
00:36:18to not stand on corners or in the local park or in local shopping centres, were the youth centres.
00:36:26I had two prominent youth centres a walking distance from my home.
00:36:32It's now called the Sarthey House and there was a play centre within the Aston Park.
00:36:38We had youth workers, and I chuckle when I talk about the youth centres that helped
00:36:43steer my life—Fat Phil was his name, Sandra and others.
00:36:50They were instrumental because they took us away from standing on corners, took us away
00:36:57from the local shopping centres and parks.
00:37:01They would take us out on weekend trips.
00:37:04I came from a family which wasn't wealthy.
00:37:07My father would work 12-hour shifts and I would hardly ever see him.
00:37:11My mum was very keen to ensure that we stayed on the straight and narrow path.
00:37:16But it was the youth centres which had taken up all of my evenings and weekends.
00:37:22It was all of these social activities that they would take us on that meant we were out
00:37:29of the gang culture which we know was very rife.
00:37:33So whilst my honourable friend from Edgbaston quite rightly points out that Birmingham Council,
00:37:41originally deciding to slash youth centres, has now decided to keep all youth centres
00:37:47open, what isn't being provided is the resources because the staffing levels are being reduced.
00:37:58I would urge the Minister to review what we have in Birmingham because whilst the debate
00:38:04is around West Midlands, over the last three years, looking at the statistics, I think
00:38:09there were 6,185 knife-related incidents just in Birmingham.
00:38:17If we are serious about tackling knife crime, of course prevention and youth centres are
00:38:26instrumental in that.
00:38:29We need to resource these youth centres appropriately.
00:38:32There's no point having a youth centre where children can't go on events or play football
00:38:38at a local football stadium because they can't afford £7 per child.
00:38:42The parents just simply don't have that money.
00:38:45So that is very important, resourcing these youth centres adequately so that they can
00:38:50do the sort of things that I have experienced.
00:38:54We've had honourable members talk about social media and I'm glad that this government is
00:38:59taking strident steps to address that aspect.
00:39:03But weapons being purchased online are critical.
00:39:08It's not just weapons being purchased online and closing that gap by making sure that people
00:39:15like Amazon and eBay and other online retailers are held to account, but also there needs
00:39:22to be tougher rules and sentences for those adults that purchase online and provide weapons
00:39:28to young children.
00:39:29I think that is quite important, given the description of gang culture and the way young
00:39:37children can be coerced into that environment.
00:39:41But also police officers, PCSOs.
00:39:45We had, in inner city areas, community support officers setting up equipment and football
00:39:54and rugby and cricket.
00:39:56They would be in charge and they would take young children to local parks and interact
00:40:01with them.
00:40:02And we've had, and it's been repeated already, the significant reduction in police officers,
00:40:09but also police support community officers.
00:40:13And so I hope that the additional officers will assist, but they can't assist if they
00:40:19are not resourced adequately to do the sort of things that can drive young people away
00:40:25from gang culture.
00:40:26But in closing, can I once again thank the honourable member for West Bromwich in bringing
00:40:32this debate.
00:40:33And I sincerely hope that the Minister can take away my personal experiences and the
00:40:38need for additional resources in Birmingham, especially when we know that Birmingham has
00:40:44an enormous deficit of over £376 million.
00:40:48They simply haven't got the resources to deal with this issue and require additional funding
00:40:54from this government.
00:40:57Now, I want to get the members from Worcester and Strangford in.
00:41:00I've got two more West Midlanders.
00:41:03I'm relying on my West Midlanders to make time to make sure that our member from Strangford
00:41:08and Worcester get in.
00:41:09So I'm going to call Brian to address next.
00:41:12Thank you, Sir John.
00:41:14It's a pleasure to serve under your chairship, and I also want to thank my honourable friend
00:41:19member for West Bromwich for bringing this debate to us this afternoon.
00:41:24Sir John, the West Midlands back in 2022 to 2023 reported 180 incidents per 100,000 people,
00:41:33giving the West Midlands the unenviable title of knife crime capital of the United Kingdom.
00:41:41Knife crime is the leading cause of homicides in England and Wales, and around 11,300 knife
00:41:49crimes have occurred in the West Midlands between November 2020 and October 2023, and
00:41:55Wolverhampton, where my constituency lies, accounts for 7.6% of these crimes.
00:42:03I'm pleased about the action that this government is taking to tackle knife crime.
00:42:07I'm pleased to see that this Labour government has launched the Coalition to Tackle Knife
00:42:11Crime, working with the actor Idris Elba and the Elba Hope Foundation to reduce knife crime,
00:42:18and I would like to see how this coalition will work to bring together campaign groups,
00:42:24families of people who have tragically lost their lives to knife crime, young people who
00:42:29have been impacted, community leaders, together with technology companies, sport organisations
00:42:35and partners in the health service, education and the police, working with experts to try and
00:42:41understand and have extensive appreciation of what causes young people to be dragged
00:42:47into violence and knife crime, and hopefully this will provide the evidence to drive government
00:42:53policy. I'm also pleased that the government is committed to strengthening the laws
00:42:58around the online sale of knives, and I am pleased to see the creation of the Young Futures
00:43:04programme, with the new local prevention partnerships, and particularly the creation of
00:43:10a new network of youth hubs. But, Sir John, we need to do more in the West Midlands,
00:43:16and we need to do more with West Midlands Police and with community initiatives. We need an
00:43:22increase in neighbourhood teams to carry out specific patrols where there are hot spots for
00:43:29knife crime, at the specific times of greatest risk, and we need to continue the knife amnesty
00:43:36programmes, encouraging people to give up their offensive weapons in exchange for avoiding
00:43:40prosecution for possession. In Wolverhampton, 185 weapons were safely deposited, 97 of which
00:43:47were handed close to Tabernacle Baptist Church in Whitmore Eanes, in my constituency of Wolverhampton
00:43:54West. Sir John, the Community Initiative to Reduce Violence is going to be run in the cities of
00:44:02Coventry and Wolverhampton, and that has been funded by the Home Office through the Youth
00:44:10Endowment Fund, and that is part of a global initiative seeking intervention of young people
00:44:16involved in violence and connecting them to an exit pathway from gangs and violence, and hopefully
00:44:22this is something that will be focused throughout the West Midlands. I also want to thank the
00:44:29Honourable Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr, for raising the issue of youth clubs, because I think
00:44:35this is a very important aspect in prevention, and we must realise the importance of youth clubs
00:44:41and youth services to prevent knife crime. We need those trusted role models in youth workers,
00:44:48and we need our youth to have activities in a safe, welcoming place where they can exercise
00:44:53their passion and drive, and have access to support mechanisms through proactive strategies.
00:44:59In my constituency of Wolverhampton West, we have the Way Youth Zone, who have made a positive
00:45:05impact on knife crime prevention by providing engaging activities and programmes, building
00:45:10positive relationships, taking safeguarding approaches, bridging the empathy gap by
00:45:16bridging the gap between young people and law enforcement, and having partnership projects
00:45:21with other organisations. Sir John, we need to have more of this.
00:45:26Thank you. Serena Brackenridge.
00:45:29Thank you, Mr Chair. Sir John, it's a pleasure to serve under your chairship, and may I extend my
00:45:35heartfelt thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich North for bringing this important
00:45:41debate. But before I continue, I want to express my deepest condolences to the victims of knife
00:45:48crime, their families and everyone who has been affected by this devastating crime.
00:45:54My constituents in Wolverhampton North East, as well as myself, often ask why we have come
00:46:02to this, where we have children murdering children. We've got young people who feel that
00:46:10they cannot carry on with their everyday lives without carrying some kind of weapon.
00:46:17We've got easy online access to such awful, graphic, extreme violence. In the West Midlands,
00:46:25the knife crime capital of the UK, as you've just heard from my hon. Friend from Wolverhampton West,
00:46:31this is tragically the reality that we face. In my former role as deputy headteacher,
00:46:38I saw how schools are in the eye of the storm, and I'll never forget the devastating impact on
00:46:44our community when two young men were murdered near a school where I worked. Incredibly sad.
00:46:52Ronan Kanda and Sean Sisahay. Innocent lives taken due to senseless violence.
00:47:00Sean, only 19 years old, he was walking through a park with his friend. He saw two 12-year-olds
00:47:06sitting on a bench, and they murdered him. Senseless. We had Ronan Kanda, mistaken for
00:47:15someone else, at the age of 16 years old, just a few steps away from the safety of his home.
00:47:22Cruelly murdered. I've seen the courage of Ronan's mother and sister, Pooja and Nikita,
00:47:31as they fight for change so that no family endures what they're enduring day in, day out.
00:47:38Their strength humbles me, and I stand with them and every family affected by these senseless
00:47:45tragedies. Staff in schools have a motto, that it can happen here. We are always on high alert,
00:47:53as we knew that knife crime can happen anywhere. But don't be fooled by stereotypes. It's not just
00:48:01street corners with gang culture. This problem has not been dealt with, and therefore it has diffused
00:48:07into wider society. All communities are at risk, affected to some degree by the dangers of soaring
00:48:15knife crime. We must act, not just with stronger enforcement, but by addressing the causes of
00:48:22knife crime. I welcome the new government's commitment to prevention, education and
00:48:29engagement, alongside robust enforcement. So when it comes to prevention and education,
00:48:37we all know that education is often the first line of defence. I personally saw the power of
00:48:42programmes that brought mentors with lived experiences into schools to show students the
00:48:48real consequences of knife crime. And we will invest in early intervention, helping those at
00:48:55risk through targeted support for families, schools and communities. Secondly, engagement. We know knife
00:49:03crime often stems from a feeling of utter hopelessness, being stuck in a rut of lack of
00:49:10opportunity and therefore vulnerable to the grip of negative influences. I welcome investment in
00:49:18programmes such as the Young Futures programme, a version of Steward Start for teenagers,
00:49:26investing in youth centres, youth workers, bringing local services together to offer young people
00:49:33safe spaces and better opportunities. But of course, enforcement. Police must have the resources
00:49:41they need to crack down on knife crime. Curfews, enforcement of penalties, drug and alcohol
00:49:48interventions, mental health treatment and stronger action against the criminal gangs that are drawing
00:49:55young people into this crime. This government has acted to close loopholes to get ninja swords,
00:50:03machetes and zombie knives off our streets, but I continue to call on this government to work at
00:50:09pace. Mr Chair, victims of knife crime and their families deserve our unwavering commitment to
00:50:18prevention and change to create a society where no young person feels the need to carry a knife.
00:50:26The wind-up will begin at 3.30. I call Jim Shannon.
00:50:32I wish you well on the road you have as Chair of Westminster Hall. I also thank the
00:50:38Honourable Lady for West Bromwich for leading today's debate and for setting the scene so very
00:50:41well. Prevention of knife crime in the West Midlands is no different from prevention of knife
00:50:47crime in Northern Ireland, London, Wales or Scotland, so the issue is prevalent and pertinent
00:50:53to everyone in this hall today. It is always good to address the issues that are pertinent
00:50:59across the whole of this great nation, and we are very much aware of the increase in knife crime
00:51:04violence. I have listened very closely to what hon. Members have said, and their thoughts have
00:51:08put forward how to address those issues. I look forward very much to the Minister's response,
00:51:14because she always gives us encouragement by her response to the questions that we ask, and
00:51:18I will ask a question at the very end in relation to this. I thank the Honourable Lady for sharing
00:51:23experiences felt in her constituency and to address the horrors of knife crime. Knife crime
00:51:28remains a significant concern in the United Kingdom. In the year ending March 2023, there
00:51:32were approximately 50,500 offences involving a sharp instrument, making a 4.7% increase
00:51:39in the previous year. The Metropolitan Police recorded around some 15,000 offences in 2023-24,
00:51:48the highest since 2019. When you think that is a four-year high, you grasp just how important
00:51:54this issue is and why it is so important that we speak on it today. The figures are shocking,
00:51:59Sir John. It seems like every week—unfortunately, it seems like nearly every day—that we are
00:52:05hearing or reading online or in the paper yet another instance of a knife crime attack.
00:52:09There are many that still stick in my head to this day. I always think of the murder of
00:52:14Lee Rigsby. Do you remember that, Sir John? The soldier outside his camp, Ben Kinsella.
00:52:24And, even more recently, Sir John, the horrific Southport stabbings. The statement was in the
00:52:28House just about an hour ago, when three lovely wee girls at a dance class were killed and others
00:52:34were severely injured. The horror of knife crime cannot be underlined enough.
00:52:40While Northern Ireland does not have the same scope of the problem as other areas across the
00:52:45United Kingdom, the stats for them are still shocking and must be addressed properly.
00:52:52The 12 months leading up to 22 July, there was an increase of 8.4% in violence than there was
00:52:59in the year before. There is also data to show that a percentage of sexual offences
00:53:04in Northern Ireland were committed using knives or sharp instruments. This is also
00:53:08recorded at a disturbing rate. In 2023-2024, the Belfast City Police District recorded the
00:53:15highest number of crimes in Northern Ireland—some 33,000—showing a high prevalence of these crimes
00:53:23in urban areas. I will mention one and come to the end of my comments.
00:53:31In Northern Ireland, we have attacked some women and girls of a level that is the highest
00:53:37and worst in the United Kingdom. Natalie McNally was brutally stabbed the week before Christmas
00:53:44of 2022. She was 15 weeks pregnant. The Northern Ireland Police Board has expressed concerns about
00:53:53the prevalence of knife-related crimes. The impact on communities is significant.
00:53:58I think about the families often, Sir John. I know that you and I would share that compassion,
00:54:02as others do in this Chamber, on the loss of a loved one due to such a violent and horrific
00:54:06crime. It is a grief that one can never get away from, so we must be doing more to address it.
00:54:12My question to the Minister is this. We will address the issue here centrally at Westminster,
00:54:18which is the responsibility of the Honourable Lady. When it comes to pushing together legislation
00:54:24or giving advice to some of the regional Administrations, I think of the Northern
00:54:27Ireland Assembly. I think of the Policing and Justice Minister, in particular Naomi Long. I
00:54:31think of the Policing Board and how we can do it better and exchange and share those experiences.
00:54:39I have every hope that we can do more to make our towns, villages and constituencies safer.
00:54:43As always, we must give thanks to the police and the emergency services,
00:54:46who did their bit to save lives and keep people safe in the United Kingdom of Great Britain
00:54:51and Northern Ireland. That knife crime will indeed become a thing of the past.
00:54:55There is indeed, Sir John, very, very much to do yet. Thank you.
00:55:00Tom Collins.
00:55:02Thank you, Sir John, and it is a pleasure to serve under your chairship.
00:55:05I recently met with Worcestershire's Youth Cabinet, young people representing our county,
00:55:11and they shared with us their priorities. Their absolute highest priority, to my shock,
00:55:18was crime and safety. They are very concerned by this issue, and knife crime is absolutely
00:55:24top of their list under that area. They had suggested actions. We discussed all of the
00:55:31things that my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich raised about visible policing,
00:55:35prioritising the restriction of access to knives, and early intervention and education,
00:55:40including the restoral of youth centres and youth services. But their key ask was that we go and do
00:55:47the work to understand the root causes and the motivations behind knife crime amongst young
00:55:53people. My takeaways from that conversation were, first of all, how keen young people were
00:55:59to collaborate on this issue as we start to tackle it, and, second of all, how important it is that
00:56:05we don't work from assumptions but we go and really understand from the perspective of young
00:56:09people what is driving this problem, that we listen, that we involve young people and that
00:56:15we empower them. That is all the more important when we realise just how fuelled this issue is
00:56:21by fear, by apathy and by disenfranchisement. Young people care deeply about this issue. They
00:56:29are ready to engage and they deserve a voice. On behalf of the young people in Worcestershire,
00:56:36I want to echo their call and their offer. Let's act urgently at all levels of policing, disrupting
00:56:43and preventing knife crime, but as we do so, let's put young people at the very heart of that
00:56:50response. We will tackle this most effectively when we put our influence and our power and our
00:56:58resources in their hands and so let us put young people at the very centre of what we do as we
00:57:03tackle and we end this problem of knife crime. Very good. Before I call the Liberal Democrats
00:57:11to focus on, because I thank colleagues for their brevity and cooperation to make sure that all
00:57:15colleagues contributed, I want to leave some time for the mover of the motion to speak at the end.
00:57:20I now call the Liberal Democrat spokesman Luke Taylor. Thank you very much Sir John. It is a
00:57:27pleasure to serve under your chairship for yours and my first time. I'd like to also thank the
00:57:33Honourable Member for West Bromwich for securing this important debate and for her very passionate
00:57:38speech. It has been deeply moving to hear from Members across the House about the horrific
00:57:44experiences their constituents have had to endure. It is tragic that we've heard so many names
00:57:49read out today who have been the victims of knife crime. As all of this House knows, the tragedy
00:57:56caused by the knife crime epidemic is unfortunately not confined to the West Midlands and whilst I
00:58:02represent a constituency in a different metropolitan area, I think it's key to highlight today that
00:58:07these issues blight cities and towns across the country. Indeed there is something uniquely
00:58:13challenging and disturbing about the vicious cycle of collapsing communities, poverty and
00:58:18gang violence in our cities and that should unite us across this House in a newfound resolve to
00:58:24tackle the issue head on. As a Liberal Democrat spokesperson for London, I'm acutely aware of the
00:58:31scale of this epidemic of violence across our capital city. Just two weeks ago, 14-year-old
00:58:37Kalyan Bakasa was murdered on the 472 bus in Woolwich and in my own community in December 2023,
00:58:45we were devastated by the senseless loss of 17-year-old Ilya Habibi who was tragically
00:58:51murdered outside of Sutton Station. Ilya was a young man with his entire future ahead of him.
00:58:57He had aspirations, potential and opportunities that a blade cruelly stole from him that cold
00:59:03winter's day. My heartfelt thoughts are with his family and friends as they continue to cope
00:59:09with such a heartbreaking loss, particularly painful that the alleged killer remains free
00:59:14overseas. Knife crime in our capital has risen year on year with over 14,588 offences recorded
00:59:22in 2023 alone. We have all seen tragic stories of teenagers stabbed to death on buses,
00:59:28in their local high streets and outside their schools. No young person in this country should
00:59:33have to live in fear of such violent crimes when they leave their homes. Parents should not have
00:59:38to worry each day about sending their children into the world, dreading the threat that they
00:59:43may fall victim to a senseless stabbing that would tragically cut short their burgeoning lives.
00:59:49This crisis was not addressed properly by the previous government nor the current or past
00:59:53London Mayor and urgently requires addressing today. It is encouraging to see the government
00:59:59taking new steps to clamp down on the sale of ninja and samurai swords and giving police greater
01:00:04powers to seize and destroy weapons. But there is so much more to do. A whole-of-society approach
01:00:11is desperately needed. One huge step forward that the Labour government needs to focus on
01:00:16is a return to proper neighbourhood policing where officers are visible and known in their
01:00:21local communities. In my constituency and across London, we're increasingly seeing safer
01:00:27neighbourhood officers being abstracted from their areas to other forces and parts of London,
01:00:32leading to a significant reduction in the capacity for ongoing proactive policing in our communities.
01:00:39While we've seen abstraction levels drop in recent months in my constituency and across
01:00:43Sutton, it is still a problem. We've also seen a massive reduction in the number of
01:00:48police community support officers, or PCSOs. The number of PCSOs in the Metropolitan Police
01:00:54declined by 32% from 2015 to 2023. The data shows that in 2015 there were 1,887 PCSOs,
01:01:04which had dropped by 572 to only 1,215 in 2023. While this is a startling statistic,
01:01:13more dramatic were the cuts made under Mayor Johnson. Between 2008 and 2016, PCSO numbers
01:01:20dropped from 4,247 to only 1,626. Under the last Conservative mayor, PCSO levels were cut to 38%
01:01:33of the level when he took office. That means less than two in five PCSOs remained
01:01:38after his eight years running this capital. The failure to protect proper community policing
01:01:45under both Labour and Conservative administrations in London is deeply concerning as it undermines
01:01:50the important role that visible policing plays in creating a sense of security and, of course,
01:01:55deterrence. Research consistently shows that having officers on the beat serves a powerful
01:02:01deterrent to violent crime, including stabbings, with criminal activity dropping significantly in
01:02:06areas where police are actively engaged and present. The surge in violent crime only highlights
01:02:13the dangers of reduced police presence in our neighbourhoods. It is extremely concerning to
01:02:19think that Elia's tragic murder occurred just minutes from a police station, outside a busy
01:02:24train station and a packed bus stop—an area where policing should have been as visible and as
01:02:29proactive as possible. This tragic incident, among many others, should be a wake-up call to the
01:02:35Government to get the Metropolitan Police to take seriously the scale of the problem of repeated
01:02:39abstractions and underscore the importance of maintaining dedicated officers in our communities.
01:02:46We need to ensure that all areas are adequately staffed with officers who can prevent crime
01:02:51before it happens and respond quickly when needed. Only then will we see a reduction in knife crime.
01:02:57And on the community side, we must not forget that the previous Conservative Government made
01:03:01the problem worse by savagely cutting youth services. Often these services are the front
01:03:06line in the war for young people's hearts and minds, standing as a buffer between a life of
01:03:11violence and a life of opportunity. Too often these services are derided as a waste of money
01:03:17or belittled as merely another community project. This is utterly misguided. Youth services should
01:03:23be recognised as offering a vital public service that of early intervention, as Members around
01:03:29the House in this debate have already made clear. And when they're well funded, these services are
01:03:34able to offer a vital role alongside police, schools and other third sector organisations
01:03:41in developing what we really need—a public health approach to knife crime. That approach,
01:03:46which the Liberal Democrats in London and indeed across the country have long called for, is the
01:03:51right one. It mirrors the approach Glasgow took and which has been shown to yield results. And
01:03:57let us be clear, results in this area measured in something more important than profit or efficiency.
01:04:03Results in this area mean lives saved, lives nourished and lives reinvigorated. So a society
01:04:10that stands by and watches youth services wither away is not a society truly committed
01:04:16to delivering for young people and preventing knife crime. Let's move forward with the renewed
01:04:21conviction that the measure of a civilised society is how it treats its most vulnerable,
01:04:25which in this case absolutely must also be remembered in the context of young people.
01:04:33You can see the remaining time. I now call Opposition spokesman, Shadow Minister Matt Vickers.
01:04:40Thank you, Sir John. It's a pleasure, privilege and an honour to serve under your chairmanship
01:04:44on this first occasion. I'd like to also thank the Honourable Member for West Bromwich for bringing
01:04:48forward this important debate today. Honourable Members have shared the horror and pain caused
01:04:54by knife crime and suffered by too many across this country. The rate of knife crime in the
01:04:59West Midlands has been and remains too high. Knife crime is a blight on the region, creating
01:05:05challenges that go beyond injuries and tragically fatalities. It undermines communities, leaving
01:05:11people feeling unsafe and in some cases deterring them from going about their daily lives.
01:05:17Any government is right to prioritise this issue. The commitment to reducing knife crime by 50%
01:05:23in the next decade is a worthy goal set by the government. However, precisely how it intends
01:05:28to achieve this goal remains uncertain. It will require difficult and targeted action.
01:05:34As many Members will know, the number of offences excluding fraud and computer misuse dropped by
01:05:4150% between 2010 and 2023. Fraud and computer misuse also dropped by 20% from 2017 when it
01:05:50was first recorded to 2023. This included significant decreases in violence with and
01:05:56without injury. We know therefore that substantial reductions in crime are achievable. However,
01:06:02the specific challenges posed by knife crime will require tailored solutions. I would appreciate if
01:06:08the Minister could elaborate today in greater depth on how the government plans to achieve
01:06:13this ambitious reduction. People need to know that when they make the decision to carry a knife,
01:06:19there is a good chance they will be caught and face the full force of the law. Police officers
01:06:23need to know that when they make the decision to stop and search, that the state will be on
01:06:29their side. You cannot take knives off the street without trusting, empowering and properly
01:06:36resourcing our police officers. This should include utilising violence reduction units
01:06:41and ensuring police are deployed in the right places at the right times, using hotspot policing.
01:06:47The continuation of funding for serious violence in the police funding settlement is welcome.
01:06:53However, it appears to fall short of the £55 million per year previously allocated to the 20
01:06:59violence reduction units. The last government had outlined plans to increase this by 50% to
01:07:05support preventative interventions. I understand that funding for these initiatives is often
01:07:10drawn from multiple sources. Can the Minister clarify how much funding these units will receive
01:07:16and whether further increases are expected in future years?
01:07:20There are now more police on the streets than ever before, but concerns have been raised by
01:07:25police forces that they may need to reduce headcounts over the next year due to funding
01:07:30pressures from the recently announced settlement. This issue has been exacerbated by the increase
01:07:36in employers' national insurance contributions, and there are projections that as many as 3,500
01:07:42officers could be lost. While the government has indicated it will increase the number of
01:07:46neighbourhood police, can the Minister assure us today that total officer numbers will not
01:07:51decline over the coming years? A reduction in officers would pose significant challenges to
01:07:56investigating knife crime and delivering justice. There are also areas where I hope we can find
01:08:01agreement. The Criminal Justice Bill, which unfortunately was unable to pass prior to the
01:08:05general election, contained measures to strengthen knife crime legislation, including addressing the
01:08:11sale and use of weapons. One proposal was to increase the maximum penalty for selling knives
01:08:16to those under 18 from six months to two years' imprisonment. Another was the introduction of a
01:08:22new offence for the possession of a knife or offensive weapon in public or private with the
01:08:27intent to use unlawful violence, carrying a maximum penalty of four years' imprisonment.
01:08:34When the Chair of the National Police Chiefs' Council gave evidence to the Criminal Justice
01:08:39Committee, they expressed full support for these proposals. My question to the Minister is whether
01:08:44the government intends to include such measures in upcoming legislation during this session of
01:08:49Parliament. Turning to the West Midlands specifically, knife crime is undeniably a
01:08:54significant issue. The Crime Survey for England and Wales, released in October, revealed that 10%
01:09:00of all knife crime occurred in this region. While there was a small positive development,
01:09:06knife or sharp instrument offences recorded by West Midlands Police saw a 1% decrease,
01:09:11compared to a 16% increase recorded by the Metropolitan Police. Overall, levels remain
01:09:17far too high. Indeed, the total number of offences recorded by West Midlands Police
01:09:22is still 2% higher than pre-pandemic levels. It is worth noting that NHS data from September 2024
01:09:29also showed a small decrease in hospital admins involved in sharp objects or firearms,
01:09:37compared to the previous year, with 10 fewer incidents recorded in the West Midlands. However,
01:09:42we all agree we need further reductions. Both the local police force and government must strive to
01:09:48reduce the levels of knife crime in the region. As Members from the region will recall, the Peel
01:09:53assessment by His Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire and Rescue Service
01:09:58was critical of West Midlands Police Force. Improvements have undoubtedly been made since,
01:10:03but there is more to do. One positive example highlighted in the report was the force's use
01:10:09of a knife prediction tool, developed by their data analytics lab. This tool uses three years
01:10:15of data to predict where injuries caused by knives are most likely to occur, up to four
01:10:20weeks in advance. Measures are then put in place to reduce risks in these areas. Between April and
01:10:26August 2023, compared to the same period in 2022, the force reported a 4.4% reduction in recorded
01:10:34cases of serious youth violence involving knives and an 11.4% overall reduction in serious youth
01:10:40violence. Furthermore, West Midlands Police benefited in 2022 from 20,612 additional
01:10:48patrols funded by the Home Office's GRIP and Hotspot policing initiatives. With continued
01:10:53advancement in technology, it's reasonable to expect further gains. Can the government confirm
01:10:59that it will ensure sustained financial support for these effective policing methods?
01:11:04Despite these examples of progress, the Inspectorate identified areas requiring improvement.
01:11:09One key recommendation was to ensure officers have the skills and capabilities needed
01:11:15to carry out high-quality investigations. This concern is reflected in the statistics.
01:11:21In the year ending March 2024, 30.1% of offenders charged or summoned for possession of weapons
01:11:27offences nationally were successfully prosecuted. However, in the West Midlands, this figure was just
01:11:3317.4%. While this encompasses various dangerous weapons, knives remain amongst the most common.
01:11:40How does the government intend to work with West Midlands Police,
01:11:44the Crown Prosecution Service, to ensure offenders are brought to justice?
01:11:48Finally, I wish to raise the matter of devolved powers. As members from the region will be aware,
01:11:54the former mayor for the West Midlands and the previous government sought to transfer Police
01:11:58and Crime Commissioner powers. Whilst this proposal was not supported by the Labour PCC,
01:12:03it raises questions about the government's future plans. In light of the devolution white paper,
01:12:08does the Minister foresee the mayor assuming the powers of the PCC?
01:12:13I am confident the Minister understands the scale of the challenge in reducing knife crime.
01:12:18It is by no means an easy task. Therefore, I hope we can work together in this Parliament
01:12:23to support measures that will take meaningful action to reduce knife crime,
01:12:27not only in the West Midlands but across the country.
01:12:31I now call on the Minister of State for Policing, Fire and Crime Prevention,
01:12:35who I know will want to leave a little time at the end for the hon. Member in
01:12:39charge to wind up. It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today,
01:12:45Sir John. I congratulate you on your impeccable chairing of Westminster Hall this afternoon.
01:12:52Let me begin by thanking my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich for securing
01:12:57this debate and her very powerful and eloquent speech in opening the debate. I am very grateful
01:13:04and grateful to all the other Members who have contributed this afternoon.
01:13:09I want to refer to the right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brown Hills. I know she has a long-standing
01:13:16interest in this area, and she highlighted the important work that the James Brindley Foundation
01:13:22is doing. My hon. Friend the Member for Edgbaston referred to the commitment in the Labour Party
01:13:29manifesto back in July of a mandatory referral to the youth offending teams for young people
01:13:36caught carrying knives. That is really important. My hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-upon-Avon
01:13:44and my hon. Friend the Member for Hales-Owen talked about the very tragic cases in their
01:13:49constituency with their constituents. The hon. Member for Perry Barr talked about his personal
01:13:56experience of youth provision and how important that was in his life. My hon. Friend the Member
01:14:02for Wolverhampton West talked about the coalition to tackle knife crime. I will say something about
01:14:08that in a moment. My hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North East brought her enormous
01:14:15experience as a former deputy headteacher to this debate. My hon. Friend the Member for
01:14:20Strangford talked about the horror of knife crime and the attacks particularly on women and girls,
01:14:26and the need to work together through all the nations to bring together the experience and
01:14:32what works. My hon. Friend the Member for Worcester made a compelling speech about young people
01:14:39and putting them at the heart of the response to knife crime. I am grateful for all those
01:14:44contributions. As has been made clear throughout the debate, knife crime is a source of harm,
01:14:51fear and, in the worst cases, unbearable grief. Today's debate has focused on the West Midlands,
01:14:58but the truth is that this is an issue that affects far too many communities across Britain,
01:15:03and it is those stories that we have heard so powerfully today that are affecting families
01:15:08up and down the nation. We have seen that, yet again in recent weeks, with a number of
01:15:14fatal stabbings of young people in different parts of the country, we can only imagine
01:15:19what the loved ones of those who have lost their lives will be going through. Of course,
01:15:23all of our thoughts and prayers are with them. We know that knife crime has destroyed far too
01:15:30many lives. That is why we have described this issue as a national crisis in our manifesto,
01:15:36and it is why, as part of the Safer Streets mission, which is central to the Government's
01:15:40plan for change, we are aiming to halve knife crime within a decade. We have already taken
01:15:46some important steps forward since the general election, and I will touch on those as well as
01:15:52further measures that we will be taking as I respond to the points that have been raised today.
01:15:58So, first of all, I just want to deal with this issue about resources being available to police
01:16:04in the West Midlands. For this coming year, the total funding to police forces overall will be
01:16:11up to £17.4 billion, an increase of nearly £1 billion compared to 2024-25. The West Midlands
01:16:20police will receive up to £838.4 million in funding in 2025-26. That is an increase of £48
01:16:28million when compared to the 2024-25 settlement, and that is 3% more in real terms.
01:16:36Neighbourhood policing has been talked a lot about today, and the idea of visible policing
01:16:42being so important to our communities. This Government is determined that neighbourhood
01:16:46policing will be rebuilt and that communities in the West Midlands will benefit from our
01:16:51neighbourhood policing guarantee. We all know, as constituency MPs, the impact that good
01:16:57neighbourhood policing has on local community confidence and preventing crime, and this should
01:17:03never be underestimated. Local officers and PCSOs who know their patch are the building block of
01:17:09every aspect of policing, be it tackling knife crime, serious or organised crime, or extremist
01:17:15and terror threats. That is why the restoration of neighbourhood policing is at the heart of our
01:17:20plans to reform policing, and why we have committed to delivering an additional 13,000
01:17:26police officers, PCSOs and special constables in neighbourhood policing roles.
01:17:31I also want to refer to violence reduction units, because we know that one of the big
01:17:35challenges in dealing with knife crime is getting all the different agencies together. That is why
01:17:43the violence reduction units have been an essential part of bringing partners together
01:17:49to understand and tackle the drivers of serious violence in their areas, and delivering a range
01:17:55of early interventions and prevention programmes to support young people away from a life of crime.
01:18:02That includes activity in Coventry and Wolverhampton to support high-risk young people
01:18:07and to connect them with an exit pathway from gangs, violence and county lines. I can confirm
01:18:14that all VRUs have the A&E navigator programmes as part of what they provide locally.
01:18:22Now, I want to move on to the specifics around tackling knife crime that this Government has
01:18:28introduced. First of all, we have taken swift action to take dangerous weapons off the streets.
01:18:34We ran a surrender and compensation scheme for zombie-style knives and zombie-style
01:18:39machetes between 26 August 2024 and 23 September 2024, following which the ban came into force
01:18:46on 24 September. It is now illegal to sell or own these weapons. Secondly, we ran a consultation
01:18:54between 13 November 2024 and 11 December 2024, seeking views on the legal description of a ninja
01:19:01sword to help our plans for an effective ban. Thirdly, we have commenced a review into the
01:19:07online sales and delivery of knives led by Commander Stephen Clayman, the national policing
01:19:13lead for knife crime. This will identify gaps in the current processes and legislation and the
01:19:19most effective ways to address this. This review will report to the Home Secretary at the end of
01:19:24January, and I hear very much the need for rapid action when that review has been produced.
01:19:30Fourthly, we have consulted on introducing personal liability measures on senior executives
01:19:36of online platforms or marketplaces who fail to take action to remove illegal content relating
01:19:42to knives and other weapons. The consultation was launched on 13 November and closed on 11
01:19:49December, and we are currently analysing the responses. Next, I want to pay tribute to the
01:19:55Coalition to Tackle Knife Crime. We are clear that our ambition to halve knife crime will not
01:20:01succeed in isolation, and that means working together with those who share our vision for
01:20:06safer communities. This is why the Prime Minister launched the Coalition to Tackle Knife Crime in
01:20:11September, bringing together campaign groups, families of those who have tragically lost their
01:20:16lives to knife crime, young people who have been impacted, and community leaders united in their
01:20:22mission to save lives. We are delighted to have representation from the West Midlands,
01:20:27with Pooja Kander, Lynne Baird and Mark Brindley, all members of the Coalition. I want to pay
01:20:34tribute to all those families who have campaigned so hard in this space for far too long. Having the
01:20:40lived experience of young people is critical to the Coalition, and we are keen to ensure that
01:20:46they have a platform to share their views, ideas and solutions to make Britain a safer place for
01:20:52the next generation. That leads me on to the next issue, which is that far too many children and
01:20:58young people today are facing poorer life outcomes, including becoming involved in knife crime,
01:21:04because they are not effectively identified and supported early enough. To address this issue,
01:21:11we have committed to the creation of the Young Futures programme, which will establish a network
01:21:16of Young Futures Hubs and Young Futures Prevention Partnerships to intervene early to ensure that
01:21:22this cohort is identified and offered support, as well as creating more opportunities for young
01:21:28people in their communities through the provision of open access to mental health, mentoring and
01:21:36careers support. Young Futures Hubs will bring together the support services that tackle
01:21:42the underlying needs of vulnerable children and young people, making them more accessible to those
01:21:47who need them. As for Young Futures Prevention Partnerships, it will bring together key partners
01:21:53in local areas across England and Wales to identify vulnerable children and young people at
01:21:58risk of being drawn into crime, map local youth service provision and offer support in a more
01:22:04systematic way to divert them. I want to say a few words about knife-enabled robbery. This
01:22:10is another one of my top priorities. It is incredibly distressing and dangerous for victims.
01:22:16Levels of knife-enabled robbery are unacceptably high and have risen by 11% nationally in the last
01:22:22year. That is why I chair a new knife-enabled robbery taskforce, bringing together chief
01:22:28constables and other criminal justice partners to take urgent action to tackle it. Working with
01:22:34the College of Policing, the taskforce has used the latest data and evidence to establish what
01:22:38works when tackling this crime type. I have asked taskforce chiefs to now consider how they will
01:22:45implement these insights into their plans. Through the taskforce, I have heard directly from West
01:22:50Midlands Police about what action they are taking locally to combat knife-enabled robbery. Under the
01:22:56leadership of Chief Constable Craig Guildford, the force has bolstered prevention-focused activities
01:23:02in their hotspots, made improvements to the way priority offenders are identified and managed,
01:23:08and taken steps to ensure and enhance the quality of investigations. Recent results are very
01:23:14promising, with considerable reductions in offence levels and increasing numbers of suspects brought
01:23:20to justice. I also want to refer to serious violence reduction orders in relation to stop
01:23:26and search. West Midlands Police are one of the four forces piloting serious violence reduction
01:23:32orders. The two-year pilot, launched in 23 April, is due to finish in April this year. These court
01:23:39orders can be placed on adults upon conviction of a knife or offensive weapons offence. They provide
01:23:46the police with the power to automatically stop and search individuals convicted of knife offences,
01:23:52with the aim to deter habitual knife-carrying behaviour. Stop and search is an important tool,
01:23:58but it must be used in a fair and effective way. In the 12 months to 24 March, stop and search led
01:24:04to 1,293 offensive weapons and firearms being found by police through stop and search in the
01:24:12West Midlands. However, we know that this tactic often disproportionately affects ethnic minority
01:24:18communities, so it needs to be deployed in a targeted way and with sensitivity. While the
01:24:25Government welcomes reductions in the ethnic disproportionality of stop and search in recent
01:24:31years, there is more work to do. In the West Midlands, black people are still 2.7 times more
01:24:37likely to be stopped and searched than white people. The other issue that we need to talk
01:24:44about and that has been raised by several hon. Members is county lines. To achieve our goal of
01:24:50halving knife crime in a decade, it is essential that we tackle the drugs gangs that drive violence
01:24:57and exploit children into criminality. That is why our manifesto included a commitment to introduce
01:25:03a new offence of child criminal exploitation. The county lines is the most violent model of
01:25:08drug supply and a harmful form of child criminal exploitation. The West Midlands is one of the
01:25:14four urban regions in which we are funding a dedicated taskforce to close lines, prosecute
01:25:21violent offenders and safeguard vulnerable people. Last month, we saw West Midlands police take part
01:25:27in the national week of intensification, targeting county lines gangs. They achieved excellent
01:25:33results in making over 80 arrests, safeguarding more than 90 children and 20 vulnerable adults,
01:25:40and taking dozens of dangerous bladed weapons off our streets. In conclusion, I want to finish by
01:25:48repeating my earlier thanks to my hon. Friend and to all who have participated in this debate.
01:25:55I think that whatever side of the House we sit on and whatever constituency we represent,
01:26:00this is an issue that matters deeply to us and to the people we represent,
01:26:05and we all have a responsibility to do everything in our power to tackle this scourge of knife crime.
01:26:14Sarah, could you finish a little before four so that I can put the motion?
01:26:19It has been a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir John, and I really appreciate
01:26:23all the very moving contributions from everyone in the room. The hon. Member for Aldridge Brown
01:26:27Hills talked about the James Brindley Foundation and the Knife Angel, which we also had in Sandwell.
01:26:32The hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston talked about this as a public health crisis,
01:26:36which it absolutely is. The hon. Member for Stratford-upon-Avon talked about Cody's law
01:26:40that she has been campaigning for. The hon. Member for Hales-Owen talked about the terrible
01:26:44case of Ryan, who was also killed in a nightclub, which was very moving.
01:26:48We heard from the hon. Member for Perry Bar, who talked about the importance of youth clubs and
01:26:52your experience growing up in Aston. The hon. Member for Wolverhampton West talked about us
01:26:57being the knife crime capital of England, which is something we need to change. The hon. Member
01:27:01for Wolverhampton North East talked about her experience in school and the impact it can have
01:27:06when you have horrendous incidents nearby, such as Ronan and Sean. The hon. Member for Stratford
01:27:11talked powerfully about the impact on women and girls of knives being used in sexual violence,
01:27:17as well as the case of Natalie, which is extremely tragic. The hon. Member for Worcester talked
01:27:21about the importance to young people in his area of tackling violence. I appreciate everything
01:27:26the Lib Dems spokesperson said. The opposition spokesperson talked about them welcoming the 50%
01:27:34commitment to reduce knife crime, which is good—although, obviously, our views on the
01:27:39figures about police in this country differ. I appreciate the Minister talking about the fact
01:27:44that one of the top missions of this Government is to make our streets safer. That is about
01:27:48putting more resources into policing. It is also about how we get those knives off our streets.
01:27:53I am glad that we are reviewing every bit of the current legislation, looking at the gaps
01:27:57on online retailers and how people are still getting these knives. Personal liability is
01:28:03absolutely essential for the people who are selling these knives. I am glad about the
01:28:07work of Idris Elba and others around the coalition on knife crime. It was great that the Prime
01:28:13Minister welcomed that coalition to the Cabinet table in September to tackle this.
01:28:18If we fulfil our commitment to halving knife crime in a decade, the rewards will not just be
01:28:23lives saved. There will be higher levels of trust within our communities, streets that feel safer,
01:28:28town centres more successful, and prevention of knife crime is not easy.
01:28:32There are no quick fixes for this, but it is our duty to try.
01:28:36The Lord Speaker Thank you.
01:28:38The question is that this House has considered the prevention of knife crime in the West Midlands.
01:28:44Does any of that opinion say aye?
01:28:46Members say aye.
01:28:47The contrary, no.
01:28:49I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it.
01:28:52Order.
01:28:52Order.
01:29:14Order.